Frugal Living: Sep 13, 2010

Monday, September 13, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cancelling CompuServe - Gonna Have Issues?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c277a9e497139d1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 12 2010 10:34 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers

I have a Compuserve account that I'm not using now.

However, I have heard that there may be some resistance to just
saying, "Please Stop."

This is especially worrying since it has a monthly automatic
payment from my checking account.

I have heard that CompuServe has a reputation of failing to shut
off service when asked politely. This is apparently a legacy
from AOHell. They apparently just keep slapping your bank
account with the debit.

Apparantly, they don't respond well to online requests to stop.
And they need a phone call to a CSR who has a financial incentive
to retain the customer (and keep billing, on and on...)

Perhaps there is some way to move the billing to a prepaid Visa
card, and then fail to top up that card? Thus resulting in
termination of service?

But would this result in some kind of collection agency action?

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 4:55 am
From: Michael Black

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010, Coffee's For Closers wrote:

> I have a Compuserve account that I'm not using now.
>
> However, I have heard that there may be some resistance to just
> saying, "Please Stop."
>
ANd how is that different from having an account that you aren't using?
I didn't even think Compuserve still existed, I can't imagine what might
be there still of value. Indeed, you don't seem to either, since
you aren't using it, yet keep on paying.

The worst that can happen, given your scenarios, is that if you try to
cancel you'll just keep paying, which is what you are doing now.

Michael

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 8:20 am
From: Derald

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

>The worst that can happen, given your scenarios, is that if you try to
>cancel you'll just keep paying, which is what you are doing now.
Good God, gertie; there you go with yet another public display of
actual rational thought. You'd never make it in politics....
--
Derald

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 1:56 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers

In article
<Pine.LNX.4.64.1009130750210.4396@darkstar.example.net>,
et472@ncf.ca says...

> On Sun, 12 Sep 2010, Coffee's For Closers wrote:

> > I have a Compuserve account that I'm not using now.
> >
> > However, I have heard that there may be some resistance to just
> > saying, "Please Stop."

> ANd how is that different from having an account that you aren't using?

Well, for starters... I am not billing anybody's checking account
for $14.95/mo.

My issue is about a merchant with a reputation for clinging to
customers.

> I didn't even think Compuserve still existed, I can't imagine what might
> be there still of value. Indeed, you don't seem to either, since
> you aren't using it, yet keep on paying.

Like I said, I want to stop paying. But this particular merchant
has a reputation for clinging to customers. And continuing to
slap their checking account each month.

> The worst that can happen, given your scenarios, is that if you try to
> cancel you'll just keep paying, which is what you are doing now.

I don't want to keep paying. I am highly annoyed by the $14.95
slap each month. And this merchant has a reputation for failing
to understand the concept of, "Please Stop."

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5a4ed5da222bef5a?hl=en
==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ed Dolan the Great and the denizens of Usenet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d833df279e38cde8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 5:54 am
From: JimmyMac

On Sep 12, 4:46 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> "JimmyMac" <jimmyma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ea52bfd8-06ae-45e1-a71e-6712e86204af@j19g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 11, 1:15 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> [...]
>
> > Jim McNamara not only has diarrhea of the mouth, but also diarrhea of the
> > brain. So much verbiage, all to no effect! Let this be a lesson to us all
> > ... piling up words to no effect is the hallmark of an idiot. It is almost
> > on the level of TM.
> >> Gee I must have struck a nerve here. So, how did Dolan respond?
>
> Well, in the usual customary manner. In other words, another
> diversionary, lack of response that does not move the discussion
> forward, but I have come to expect nothing more from Dolan since he is
> incapable of much more, and he labels me an idiot? The conundrum
> continues!
>
> I urge you to engage TM on whatever issues you want. He is on your level and
> the two of you should make beautiful music together. I will not interfere
> and will merely sit back and have a good laugh at your expense.

Diversion and your inability to move the discussion forward, duly
noted. Once again you have proven yourself to be as perceptive as
the average tree stump. I urge you to refrain from urging me to
engage TM. Several times, I have emphatically stated that I have
absolutely no compulsion whatsoever to engage TM and I would not have
to repeat this if it were not for your repetitive, regurgitated
request to do that which I have no intention to do. Allow me to dumb
this down in a single monosyllabic word that hopefully will not exceed
your poor powers of perception ... NO!!! Got it now ...
dunderhead??? I think we're done here.

> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 6:21 am
From: "Edward Dolan"

"JimmyMac" <jimmymac_4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:586b7543-106a-4844-bfbd-d42f64caf3a4@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 12, 4:46 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
[...]
> I urge you to engage TM on whatever issues you want. He is on your level
> and
> the two of you should make beautiful music together. I will not interfere
> and will merely sit back and have a good laugh at your expense.

>> Diversion and your inability to move the discussion forward, duly
noted. Once again you have proven yourself to be as perceptive as
the average tree stump. I urge you to refrain from urging me to
engage TM. Several times, I have emphatically stated that I have
absolutely no compulsion whatsoever to engage TM and I would not have
to repeat this if it were not for your repetitive, regurgitated
request to do that which I have no intention to do. Allow me to dumb
this down in a single monosyllabic word that hopefully will not exceed
your poor powers of perception ... NO!!! Got it now ...
dunderhead??? I think we're done here.

Nope, you compared me to TM. I urge you to find out for yourself how we
differ. Before you are done with TM, you will be wishing for the return of
the two Eds (Ed Gin and Ed Dolan)!

> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't flush for "number one"?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a30e2e58f9414abd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 6:56 am
From: "h"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8f5ah2F9jeU1@mid.individual.net...
>I got to thinking how much water we use by flushing the toilet each time we
>go "number one"...
>
> The internet says we typically go "number one" 7 to 13 times a day...
>
> A newer water saving toilet uses 1.6 gallons of water per flush (gpf).
>
> At 10 flushes per day, that would be 16 gallons a day.
>
> Or 300 flushes per month, and 480 gallons per month.
>
> My water is billed by each 100 cubic foot of water used. 100 cubic feet of
> water is 748 gallons.
>
> So one person not flushing for "number one" would save about 2/3 of 100
> cubic ft. of water (or 480 gallons) per month.
>

But some of us only pay a $50 yearly fee for water (we have septic here, so
no sewer fee) because we don't go over whatever the "minimum usage" is.
There would be no cost savings for us to not always flush, plus we'd have
the extra clean-up and smell of not flushing every time. No thanks.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 7:58 am
From: "Bill"

>
> But some of us only pay a $50 yearly fee for water (we have septic here,
> so no sewer fee) because we don't go over whatever the "minimum usage" is.
> There would be no cost savings for us to not always flush, plus we'd have
> the extra clean-up and smell of not flushing every time. No thanks.
>

Nice! Of course in that case, flush away!

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 9:12 am
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:58:25 -0700, "Bill"
<billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>
>> But some of us only pay a $50 yearly fee for water (we have septic here,
>> so no sewer fee) because we don't go over whatever the "minimum usage" is.
>> There would be no cost savings for us to not always flush, plus we'd have
>> the extra clean-up and smell of not flushing every time. No thanks.
>>
>
>Nice! Of course in that case, flush away!
>

I'm often in my basement shop and keep a wide-top quart container on
the back of the laundry sink. Started doing it when the kids were at
home and too many times when I ran upstairs the only bathroom was
occupied. Just pour it down the sink drain followed by a cup or so of
water.
All my drains go to the same sewer system.
And at least a few times my wife was on the toilet so I pissed in the
bathroom sink. That takes a rinsing.
Still much less water than toilet flushing.
The ladies just won't like doing this.
But if cared that much about saving water that's how I'd do it.
Piss starts stinking pretty quick in the toilet.

BTW, when I was in Navy boot camp we were all pissing in barrels with
thick plastic bag liners for at least a month.
Barrels were maybe 30 gallons.
Some kind of collection program for a drug company working on a cure.
Probably because we all had clean health.
Think it was for hemophilia, but not sure I remember right. 1964.

I do remember I was glad I never got assigned to the detail that tied
up the bags and wheeled the barrels out somewhere.
They were removed mid-morning and already were smelling ripe.

Funny thing about that and selective memory.
I talked to a buddy who went through boot with me in the same company,
and 20 years later he couldn't remember that at all.
Some people forget what's worth forgetting real quick.
Maybe I do too. I wouldn't know, would I?
You only know what you remember.
So if you really care about it, you should take notes.

--Vic

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 10:03 am
From: Mrs Irish Mike

On Sep 12, 5:45 pm, "Bill" <billnomailnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I got to thinking how much water we use by flushing the toilet each time we
> go "number one"...
>
> The internet says we typically go "number one" 7 to 13 times a day...
>
> A newer water saving toilet uses 1.6 gallons of water per flush (gpf).
>
> At 10 flushes per day, that would be 16 gallons a day.
>
> Or 300 flushes per month, and 480 gallons per month.
>
> My water is billed by each 100 cubic foot of water used. 100 cubic feet of
> water is 748 gallons.
>
> So one person not flushing for "number one" would save about 2/3 of 100
> cubic ft. of water (or 480 gallons) per month.

"If it's yellow, let it mellow.
If it's brown, flush it down."

I have an older toilet, one of those that uses alot of water each time
it is flushed. I don't flush every time I pee. I did when I first
moved into the house, but started thinking of ways to lower my water/
sewer bill when they started coming in.

I had a plumber come in to remodel the bathroom. He suggested I keep
the older toilet because it was well made and in good shape. He
explained how the low flush toilets don't properly clean unless they
are flushed multiple times. He even mentioned how some customers were
going to Canada to buy the older models that could not be sold in the
US. I decided to stay with Big Bertha.

I wouldn't allow urine to sit in the bowl all day. I flush after
every third or fourth use and certainly after dookie. I close the lid
when flushing and after nearly every use. I never have noticed a
smell, even after being gone for the entire day. My most ill-mannered
friends have never mentioned a smell either. Maybe because I clean my
bathroom weekly. BTW, bleach is cheap, no need to spend the big bucks
to have a bathroom where one feels good soaking in the bathtub reading
a good book.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 12:02 pm
From: Derald

VFW <georgeswk@toast.net> wrote:

>they say someday there may be wars over water.
>Can't live w/o it.
"They" are wrong more often than they are right, over the long
haul. Ironically, water wars could result in a net gain for the planet
by reducing the population of parasitic human beings. Water does not
"go" anyplace; it does not "disappear" from the system. Water
redistributes and no one has any more "right" to it than to any other
of Earths resources. I have all faith that, for the survivors of the
"wars", reasoned profitable innovation shall prevail. One would hope
that, in the process, the increasing numbers of non-productive
parasitic human chaff would be winnowed.
As it happens, I live in the "country", have private well and
septic system, capture rainwater for gardening, recycle laundry water
and, in all but the heaviest thunderstorms, whiz outside on the garden
compost. I do my part and then some but draw the line at leaving a
puddle of pissy water to fester right in the damned house! "Half
flush", indeed; half-assed, says I. I fully expect, any day now, for
some trendy hysterical true believing nellie so bombard us with the
"news" that those evil steamships burn "bunker" oil as is already
happening in the gardening newsgroups.
I'm old enough to have read _Silent Spring_ in its first
paperback edition and am sick to death of the hyperbolic hysteria from
the environmental religionists. Nothing they can do is going to "save"
the planet from anything and the notion that human beings are
qualified to assign value judgements of "good" or "bad" to events on a
planetary scale is delusional. Mankind's belief that he is the "Crown
of Creation" does not make it so and is one that, based on the
evidence thus far, I do not share. Something will succeed us. Whether
that successor is some semblance of humanity or is cockroaches seems a
meaningless distinction.
--
Derald

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 11:06 am
From: "h"

"Mrs Irish Mike" <wilma6116@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:58436bf4-6917-498b-b368-4b28875d3eac@l32g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 12, 5:45 pm, "Bill" <billnomailnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I had a plumber come in to remodel the bathroom. He suggested I keep
>the older toilet because it was well made and in good shape. He
>explained how the low flush toilets don't properly clean unless they
>are flushed multiple times.

Get a Toto low-flow. I have the Ultimate One-Piece or whatever it's called
now, and it has never once needed more than one flush in the 3 years I've
had it. That's a lot more than I can say for the old water-waster. That
thing used to back up at least 4 times a year. I don't even know where our
plunger is these days. When we build our addition early next year we'll be
putting Toto one-piece toilets in both the new bathrooms.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 11:10 am
From: "h"

"Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:EPqdnT9lrOS8-hPRnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

>One would hope
> that, in the process, the increasing numbers of non-productive
> parasitic human chaff would be winnowed.

I don't care if the current population is decreased, I just want the
birthrate to drop. Dramatically. Same result, in the long run. If people
would just realize that the world's current population is nearly 7 billion
on a rock which can support perhaps half that, maybe they would decide to be
childfree or have only one. You know, be rational.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 1:18 pm
From: "hotch"

h wrote:
> "Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:EPqdnT9lrOS8-hPRnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
>> One would hope
>> that, in the process, the increasing numbers of non-productive
>> parasitic human chaff would be winnowed.
>
> I don't care if the current population is decreased, I just want the
> birthrate to drop. Dramatically.

No need in the modern first world, not one first world country
is even self replacing if you take out immigration now.

> Same result, in the long run. If
> people would just realize that the world's current population is
> nearly 7 billion on a rock which can support perhaps half that,

It supports 7B fine. We only see starvation when a particular area
has imploded in the most obscene levels of civil war and civil chaos
not or is stupid enough to let some fool like Kim Jong Il rule the roost.

> maybe they would decide to be childfree or have only one. You know, be rational.

Don't need anything like that in any of the first world now, and most of the second world too.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 1:59 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers

In article <8f5ah2F9jeU1@mid.individual.net>,
billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com says...
> I got to thinking how much water we use by flushing the toilet each time we
> go "number one"...
>
> The internet says we typically go "number one" 7 to 13 times a day...
>
> A newer water saving toilet uses 1.6 gallons of water per flush (gpf).
>
> At 10 flushes per day, that would be 16 gallons a day.
>
> Or 300 flushes per month, and 480 gallons per month.
>
> My water is billed by each 100 cubic foot of water used. 100 cubic feet of
> water is 748 gallons.
>
> So one person not flushing for "number one" would save about 2/3 of 100
> cubic ft. of water (or 480 gallons) per month.

Gosh, I dunno... How do you feel about the smell? In dollar
terms, I mean.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

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Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 1:07 pm
From: Clams <"Clams"@drunkenclam.com>

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TOPIC: Black and Decker Orbit Sanders of Death recalled
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/55b962a556374382?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 10:27 am
From: Mrs Irish Mike

On Sep 12, 2:54 pm, zeez <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> notbob wrote:
> > On 2010-09-12, Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > Does B&D make anything anymore that isn't crap?
>
> > If they do, I've not seen it. Most B&D stuff can now be found at
> > Walmart. That pretty much says it all.
>
> Ewwww... Walmart is known to sell 'special' versions of products that
> use cheaper components, but are usualy indistinguishable from the
> 'good' product, except for some obscure code in their model number.

Why do companies bow to WalMart? It makes their brand seem cheap.

Why does WalMart insist items be made so cheaply? To save a half-
cent, a plastic washer is subsitutued for a steel washer making the
entire appliance a POS.

Nothing can be fixed. Evrything is made to break. Our landfills are
full. We need to import from people who don't like us to keep the crap
coming in. No one has pride in labor.

Made in USA was a brand of quality. The entire world would look for
the Made in USA label. Now it is an oddity. Black and Decker used to
be made in the USA by people who knew their family or neighbor would
be using the product; now it is made by someone who works many hours
under bad conditions for a few pennies an hour, whom I wouldn't blame
for hating the B&D label.

I worked for WalMart for a few weeks. I couldn't believe how much
junk was in their stores, and I couldn't believe how many people went
there thinking they didn't have enough junk in their lives. Everything
is junk. We need more junk. Throw out the old junk and bring in the
new junk. WalMart knowing the value of junk applies the same measure
to people. People are junk and need to be replaced when they break.
Throw out the old junk and bring in the new junk.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 11:21 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Mrs Irish Mike wrote
> zeez <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote
>> notbob wrote
>>> Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote

>>>> Does B&D make anything anymore that isn't crap?

>>> If they do, I've not seen it. Most B&D stuff can now
>>> be found at Walmart. That pretty much says it all.

>> Ewwww... Walmart is known to sell 'special' versions of products that
>> use cheaper components, but are usualy indistinguishable from the
>> 'good' product, except for some obscure code in their model number.

> Why do companies bow to WalMart?

They move so much product.

> It makes their brand seem cheap.

That clearly doesnt concern most of their customers.

> Why does WalMart insist items be made so cheaply?

Because thats what their customers clearly care about, the price they pay.

> To save a half- cent, a plastic washer is subsitutued
> for a steel washer making the entire appliance a POS.

Not necessarily.

> Nothing can be fixed.

Depends entirely on your capabilitys.

> Evrything is made to break.

Few even bother rapairing anything when the replacement is so cheap.

> Our landfills are full.

Nope.

> We need to import from people who don't like us to
> keep the crap coming in. No one has pride in labor.

Plenty still do. Corse you have to pay a lot more for what they make.

> Made in USA was a brand of quality.

Sometimes it was, often it wasnt, most obviously with some of the crap cars made in the USA.

> The entire world would look for the Made in USA label.

Pure fantasy.

> Now it is an oddity.

Yes, because most care more about price than quality.

> Black and Decker used to be made in the USA by people
> who knew their family or neighbor would be using the product;

And then the world moved on, just like it always does
and they priced themselves out of the market.

> now it is made by someone who works many hours under bad conditions
> for a few pennies an hour, whom I wouldn't blame for hating the B&D label.

No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to make anything not made
in the US. Corse you will find it hard to buy most stuff made in the US now.

You're welcome to hobble along on some dinosaur PC that was made in the US.

> I worked for WalMart for a few weeks. I couldn't believe how much
> junk was in their stores, and I couldn't believe how many people went
> there thinking they didn't have enough junk in their lives. Everything
> is junk. We need more junk. Throw out the old junk and bring in the
> new junk. WalMart knowing the value of junk applies the same
> measure to people. People are junk and need to be replaced
> when they break. Throw out the old junk and bring in the new junk.

We can see why they gave you the bums rush you so richly deserved.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 12:27 pm
From: zzyzzx

I happen to have one of these recalled sanders. I called it in and I
am waiting for the package in the mail. Mine hasn't self destructed
(yet) as per the recall advisory.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 1:03 pm
From: Clams <"Clams"@drunkenclam.com>

Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> On Sep 12, 2:54 pm, zeez <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>notbob wrote:
>>
>>>On 2010-09-12, Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Does B&D make anything anymore that isn't crap?
>>
>>>If they do, I've not seen it. Most B&D stuff can now be found at
>>>Walmart. That pretty much says it all.
>>
>>Ewwww... Walmart is known to sell 'special' versions of products that
>>use cheaper components, but are usualy indistinguishable from the
>>'good' product, except for some obscure code in their model number.
>
>
> Why do companies bow to WalMart? It makes their brand seem cheap.
>

Primarily to stay in business.

> Why does WalMart insist items be made so cheaply? To save a half-
> cent, a plastic washer is subsitutued for a steel washer making the
> entire appliance a POS.

To keep prices as low as possible.

>
> Nothing can be fixed. Evrything is made to break. Our landfills are
> full. We need to import from people who don't like us to keep the crap
> coming in. No one has pride in labor.

>
> Made in USA was a brand of quality.

Sure - like GM cars & Firestone tires, right?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 1:39 pm
From: Mrs Irish Mike

On Sep 13, 1:03 pm, Clams <"Clams"@drunkenclam.com> wrote:
> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> > On Sep 12, 2:54 pm, zeez <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>notbob wrote:
>
> >>>On 2010-09-12, Jeff Thies <jeff_th...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> Does B&D make anything anymore that isn't crap?
>
> >>>If they do, I've not seen it. Most B&D stuff can now be found at
> >>>Walmart. That pretty much says it all.
>
> >>Ewwww... Walmart is known to sell 'special' versions of products that
> >>use cheaper components, but are usualy indistinguishable from the
> >>'good' product, except for some obscure code in their model number.
>
> > Why do companies bow to WalMart? It makes their brand seem cheap.
>
> Primarily to stay in business.
>
> > Why does WalMart insist items be made so cheaply? To save a half-
> > cent, a plastic washer is subsitutued for a steel washer making the
> > entire appliance a POS.
>
> To keep prices as low as possible.
>
>
>
> > Nothing can be fixed. Evrything is made to break. Our landfills are
> > full. We need to import from people who don't like us to keep the crap
> > coming in. No one has pride in labor.
>
> > Made in USA was a brand of quality.
>
> Sure - like GM cars & Firestone tires, right?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Like Ford cars. Ford didn't invent the auto, but he made a quality
product that the masses could afford.

Like Levi jeans. Like Craftman tools. Like Schwinn bicycles. Like
American toys. Like baseballs and baseball gloves. Like Brach's candy.
Like Converse sneakers. Like Fender Stratocaster guitars. Like IBM
PCs. Like America's banks. Even like American flags.

Like automobiles until Reagan's deregulation. For an inteligent
discussion, here is an article written ten years ago. Revelent then,
spooky true today: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/sep2000/fire-s25.shtml

"American workers are lazy and can't compete." Great. Americans
should compete against workers who make about a buck an hour with no
benifits. What happens when the Chinese worker paid $1 an hour has to
compete against a Vietnamese worker making $0.46 an hour? It should
get real interesting when African workers are willing to put in 16
hour days for $0.25 an hour and a drink of water. Soon to
be.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: American 16 Old College Girls Dating Videos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cbb80052d2c1473d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 11:12 am
From: SUKANYA

American 16 Old College Girls Dating Videos At http://ukcitygirls.co.cc

Due to high sex content, i have hidden the videos in an image.
in that website on Right side below search box click on image and
watch videos in all angles.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: *Click And Fill Form Instant Get $3000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/db98d24a1966a3e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 11:37 am
From: DAKSHA

*Click And Fill Form Instant Get $3000 At http://youcanget.co.cc

i have hidden the Form link in an image.
in that website on Right Side below search box,
click on image and enter your name and Address.

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 2 new messages in 2 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Don't flush for "number one"? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a30e2e58f9414abd?hl=en
* Cancelling CompuServe - Gonna Have Issues? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c277a9e497139d1d?hl=en

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 12 2010 9:53 pm
From: VFW

In article <4rWdnXds9pEZCRDRnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:

> "The Henchman" <yup@yup.org> wrote:
>
> >But I bet I'd waste that $3.11 in cleaners to clean the scale that'll
> >develop when all that piss scales up the bowl
> In addition to the gigantic savings, one gets to _smell_ it!

I do a 1/2 flush. and they even make toilets that have the option of a
#1 flush. Save water!
they say someday there may be wars over water.
Can't live w/o it.
IMHO
--
Money! What a concept.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 12 2010 10:34 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers