Frugal Living: Sep 9, 2007

Sunday, September 9, 2007

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Info on 12 Addicting Drugs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ea92e0345f8729ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 12:23 pm
From: Joe

Drug Rehab Directory Offers Free
Information on 12 Addicting Drugs

Jacksonville, FL.- Drug rehabilitation directory web site,
99detox.com, now offers free information on 12 addictive drugs.
Alcohol, Cocaine, Ecstasy, Heroin, Hydrocodone, Lortab, Methadone,
Oxycontin, Painkillers, Percocet, Vicodin, and Methamphetamines make
up this "dirty dozen" of addictive mood-altering substances. Although
these are frequently seen in local clinics, they are by no means the
most widely used substances.

To read the full text, please go to or click on:
http://www.contactomagazine.com/articles/drugrehab0907.htm

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:40 pm
From: Al Bundy

Joe wrote:
> Drug Rehab Directory Offers Free
> Information on 12 Addicting Drugs
>
Fortunately, I don't need your drug info or the spam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Drive your car to death, save $31,000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23a659a15b17cab8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:29 pm
From: SQ

IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes
either a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree
mechanic skill set.

Mechanics are expensive everwhere but in large metro areas,
auto repairs costs are exorbitant. Think $500 for a tune up,
$800 to rebuild the entire brake system, $1500 for an auto
tranny R&R as the very cheapest and likely much more.
Old cars will need all that.

Starting about 150K miles, a lot of things will wear out
regardless of the car. Timing belts (or chains), catalytic
converter, maybe even tear inside the engine for a valve
job. All major $$$.

I think it's feasible to take a car to 20 years given
a good DIY auto repair skills set, and do so in a frugal
way. But article makes no such assumption. If you
take it to mechanics, it seems there is nothing you
can do for under $200. Well, a brake job can be on a special
for $89, and that's just the pads.

Old cars even with lower miles have electrical problems,
automatic transmission problems, starters, and various
EFI components like O2 sensors, AC compressors are
very expensive, fuel pumps, etc.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote

> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.

You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.

My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.

> Mechanics are expensive everwhere but in large metro areas,
> auto repairs costs are exorbitant. Think $500 for a tune up,
> $800 to rebuild the entire brake system, $1500 for an auto
> tranny R&R as the very cheapest and likely much more.
> Old cars will need all that.

Mine didnt.

> Starting about 150K miles, a lot of things will wear out regardless
> of the car. Timing belts (or chains), catalytic converter, maybe
> even tear inside the engine for a valve job. All major $$$.

Mine didnt.

> I think it's feasible to take a car to 20 years given a good
> DIY auto repair skills set, and do so in a frugal way.

Mine lasted 30+ years fine.

> But article makes no such assumption. If you take it to mechanics,
> it seems there is nothing you can do for under $200.

Bullshit.

> Well, a brake job can be on a special for $89, and that's just the pads.

It aint the only cheap thing you can get done.

> Old cars even with lower miles have electrical problems,
> automatic transmission problems, starters, and various
> EFI components like O2 sensors, AC compressors are
> very expensive, fuel pumps, etc.

Mine didnt.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:41 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:36:03 -0400, Rick <rickajho@rcn.com> wrote:

>SQ wrote:
>>
>> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
>> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>>
>> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
>> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
>
>Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
>longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?
>
That's pretty much what I've heard. If buying new, that might be the
best one to squeeze the most use per dollar from.
But when buy used it's a bit dicier, since because of their rep they
command a high price.

--Vic

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:58 pm
From: Gordon

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1189315552.224218.158560@
50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>
> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
>

That's a pretty good metric. And an easy one to beat.
I bought the Mazda for about $6500. Kept it for 14 years.
Thats less than $500/year. Add in the few repairs and it
doesn't raise the cost by more than $100/year.
Figure a replacement alternator (DIY), radiator(diy),
Clutch(mechanic), gaskets and valves(mech), Rear brake
cylanders and master cyl(diy)

As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
can eat up your savings.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:44 pm
From: SQ

On Sep 9, 5:58 pm, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:

>
> As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
> machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
> can eat up your savings.

Right - and am I just pointing out that the original
article did not take this into consideration.

I am a DIY person but there have been times when
I just couldn't do a job. Case in point -
exhaust repairs. I know how to install a muffler but
just don't have the facilities to do it. Crawling under
a heavy beast without a proper lift is just dangerous.
I once got a muffler and took it to a repair place
and they charged me $120 just to install it, ouch.
Not a difficult job - pull a few bolts here and there.
But I had no choice.

One thing that really helps me is, I have a backup
vehicle. Meaning, when my primary is down, like when
I am replacing the timing belt or the water pump,
I can afford to DIY, slowly, taking a week if
I have to.

A person who cannot afford the downtime cannot do
this, has to take it in someplace in the morning
and pick it up after work.

If you take your car to mechanic and say you need it
yesterday... you will pay for it. Especially these
quick lube type places on the side of the major road
who don't depend on repeat customers.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:59 pm
From: SQ

I once had 4 beaters in various stages of deterioration.

A full size GM vehicle, 13 years old, had 180K miles, an engine with
100K miles and a few major dents caused by deer which made
it look questionable but did not inhibit the driving
abilities.

Second one was a compact Subaru, had 200K+ miles on body,
100K on engine and 50K on tranny, 12 years old.

Third was a compact Ford product, 120K on it and was 17 years old.

Fourth was full size Ford truck with 100K on body and 60K on engine
but
was 20 years old.

Well - I couldn't keep more than 2 on the road at any one time
on the average due to various issues. Fuel pumps, EFI problems,
exhaust, wheel bearings, tune up, alternator, starter,
power windows... power steering gear box, timing belts,
neutral safety switch and much more.

Once I had mice or some critters chew through the fuel pump
wiring and the vehicle would work randomly. Took me a while
to troubleshoot this one.

It took me weeks to fix something - by shopping around for
the absolute cheapest part, usually used, online, or often
at junk yards. Then finding the time and the place to fix it.
Sure I could have taken them to an auto repair and paid
$400 (as least) for work like fuel pump replacement, but it's so
satisfactory doing it yourself for a fraction of the cost.

I even tried trading all 4 beaters for a normal car
without success.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:29 pm
From: George

Gordon wrote:
> SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1189315552.224218.158560@
> 50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
>> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>>
>> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
>> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.
>>
>
> That's a pretty good metric. And an easy one to beat.
> I bought the Mazda for about $6500. Kept it for 14 years.
> Thats less than $500/year. Add in the few repairs and it
> doesn't raise the cost by more than $100/year.
> Figure a replacement alternator (DIY), radiator(diy),
> Clutch(mechanic), gaskets and valves(mech), Rear brake
> cylanders and master cyl(diy)
>
> As somone pointed out, you need to have some shade tree
> machanic skills or else your maintenence and repair costs
> can eat up your savings.

Plus obviously the time to do this. If you depend on the car you can't
take two days off from work to repair something yourself and if you do
any traveling what do you do when something fails two hundred miles from
home.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RFID chip implants solidly linked to animal tumors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/83d5e5a23ae06286?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:44 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

They can chip my cold, dead, lifeless body.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 1:45 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

On Sep 9, 3:58 am, bearc...@cruller.invalid wrote:
> According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, these chip implants
> are not only safe, they will save lives by allowing the human bearer to
> effortlessly carry his entire medical history around with him wherever
> he goes. Indeed, the FDA assurances sound almost *exactly* like the chip
> manufacturer's sales literature, but with the added ring of "authority".
> The chips were enthusiastically endorsed by the agency during the Bush
> appointment of Tommy Thompson, Republican from Wisconsin, working in
> concert with Jim Sennsenbrenner, Republican Congressman also from
> Wisconsin, who also peddled the chips his so-called "Real I.D." Act (HR
> 418).
>
> So why won't the FDA divulge to the press exactly *which* studies it
> reviewed to make this assessment? What's the big secret, FDA? Is it that
> a Federal Agency obligated to protect the American people has happily,
> blithely approved a passive surveillance device which is now shown to
> nourish malignent cell growth in microchipped animals? I wonder if
> Thompson and Sennsenbrenner have had their pets or children injected
> with these things?
>
> <http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYssebw3_FRuof2bdR1YdCo8OgXA>

They can chip my cold, dead, lifeless body.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:53 pm
From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas)

> They can chip my cold, dead, lifeless body.

Already common practice, particularly in disasters such as Katrina.
--

-- mejeep deMeep ferret!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What ever happened to Ebay's unsold item credit?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccba27ea7be6064d?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:34 pm
From: Derald

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

>What happened to this?
I suspect "nothing". Such a rebate certainly never existed within
the time that I've been ebaying (since 1999). Makes no sense, at all.
--
HTH,
Derald

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:44 pm
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

> When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
>getting either a listing credit or final value credit.
>
> What happened to this? Now it appears that the only way I can get a
>"credit" is to relist the item! Of course, that can actually make them even
>more money, and is not a true credit.
>
>
>
>
If the item does not sell, the seller can relist a second time, but they
are charged a listing fee that depends on the new starting price. If
the item sells on the second attempt (when priced equal to lower than
the original auction) eBay will refund the second listing fee. If a
buyer reneges on the second listing, you can not relist it again with a
refund. If you do, eBay treats it as a new auction. However, I'm not
sure if such an auction will get a second listing refund.

The relisting price must be equal to lower than the original price or
else they charge a full fee with no reimbursement if it sells. Again,
I'm not sure if that's treated as a new auction for relisting privileges.

Bottom line is that it's NOT really a credit. It's a refund of a second
listing fee, provided the auction sells on the second listing.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:08 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

> I suspect "nothing". Such a rebate certainly never existed within> the
> time that I've been ebaying (since 1999). Makes no sense, at all.

I was selling things on Yahoo auctions and Ebay from 1995 or 1996.
Originally, it was completely free on Ebay, then they started charging a
listing fee. I believe they would refund the fee if the item didn't sell.

This was back when they were under a lot of pressure from Yahoo auctions.
YA was offering their auctions completely free - no listing fee, no final
value fees. Ebay couldn't really raise their fees with that kind of
competition. However, Yahoo made the mistake of starting to charge a 10
cent listing fee, skipping the 5 cent mark completely, and lots of people
went back over to Ebay. After that, Yahoo went back to free, but it was too
late. Then Ebay had the field to itself, pretty much, and the fee hikes
started.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:11 pm
From:

In article <fc11p5$6el$1@aioe.org>, none@none.net says...
> When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
> getting either a listing credit or final value credit.

I've only been on eBay since 1998, but to the best of my recollection,
the relisting credit hasn't changed much. If you list an item and it
doesn't sell, then if you relist it, you get credit for the second
listing fee if the item sells. I don't remember that changing.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tomato paste
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bf6768d86eb5418f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:54 pm
From: jes

It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.

So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
hamburger size patties. And froze.

One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
in the freezer.

I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
cheap!

Joan

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:07 pm
From: Beeblebrox

jes wrote:
> It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
> homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
> little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.
>
> So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
> wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
> hamburger size patties. And froze.
>
> One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
> kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
> in the freezer.
>
> I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
> cheap!
>
> Joan
>

i'm thinking ice trays might be easier to do large batches next time. I
know the food shows suggest them for lots of things. Freeze in the
trays, they pop into a ziplock. No idea if it leaves a taste in the ice
tray.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:37 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 9, 5:54 pm, jes <jesmith...@msn.com> wrote:
> It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
> homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
> little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.
>
> So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
> wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
> hamburger size patties. And froze.
>
> One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
> kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
> in the freezer.
>
> I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
> cheap!
>
> Joan

The 6oz. cans of paste are 33¢ at ALDIs and Sav-A-Lot. Still, $2/# is
much cheaper. That's a lot of work to part out a gallon of tomato
paste and spend the cost and space of freezing it. I'm real careful in
saving tomato products too because of bacterial growth.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When news media whine about 'labor shortages' it simply means employers
don't want to pay existing workers as much
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c75d3f8f8d3003a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:58 pm
From:

Overheard an interesting conversation on labor shortages this morning
while waiting for a ferry -- a man complaining that they'd tried to hire
only legal labor for picking a short-season harvest, but even at
$18/hour (plus overtime) they had not been able to get field labor
willing to work hard 7 days a week for three weeks to get it out of the
fields while it was still good.

They gave up and called a crew boss who was known to hire illegal
workers, and had the field full in no time.

He figured that by subcontracting, the workers couldn't be getting more
than $12 of that $18, and probably weren't getting overtime pay, but he
needed to get the broccoli in before it bolted. But he couldn't find
legal workers for a thousand a week, and couldn't afford to pay more
than that for harvest labor.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:02 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <MPG.214e287899ee3fc3989798@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
josh@phred.org wrote:
>Overheard an interesting conversation on labor shortages this morning
>while waiting for a ferry -- a man complaining that they'd tried to hire
>only legal labor for picking a short-season harvest, but even at
>$18/hour (plus overtime) they had not been able to get field labor
>willing to work hard 7 days a week for three weeks to get it out of the
>fields while it was still good.
>
>They gave up and called a crew boss who was known to hire illegal
>workers, and had the field full in no time.
>
>He figured that by subcontracting, the workers couldn't be getting more
>than $12 of that $18, and probably weren't getting overtime pay, but he
>needed to get the broccoli in before it bolted. But he couldn't find
>legal workers for a thousand a week, and couldn't afford to pay more
>than that for harvest labor.

What time of the year was that? If this happens between second week of
May and the week before Labor Day, try advertising the job in the
University City section of Philadelphia. I suspect there are at least a
dozen or two similar areas elsewhere in the USA.
For that matter, one of the universities in Philadelphia's "University
City" has its fall quarter starting after Labor Day, since its summer
quarter is finishing up finals on the Saturday of Labor Day weekend - a
couple thousand incoming freshmen free to pick brocolli into the first
full week of September to get some badly needed money if that's when it
has to be picked.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you like paying for air? (food packages)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/af114586924248d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:03 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
full 16 ounces - a pound.

Now they are putting half the product in the bags, but they have left the
price the same - a dollar. I would much rather that they leave the size of
the product the same, and I find it insulting that they make the bags look
the same size, and they are the same price, but you only get half what you
did a few years ago.

The same has happened to a lesser extent with several other items - graham
crackers, for instance. The boxes used to have a full pound. Now it is 14
ounces, and there is empty space in the box.

Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
intelligence is being insulted.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:31 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 9, 8:03 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
> and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
> bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
> ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
> full 16 ounces - a pound.
>
> Now they are putting half the product in the bags, but they have left the
> price the same - a dollar. I would much rather that they leave the size of
> the product the same, and I find it insulting that they make the bags look
> the same size, and they are the same price, but you only get half what you
> did a few years ago.
>
> The same has happened to a lesser extent with several other items - graham
> crackers, for instance. The boxes used to have a full pound. Now it is 14
> ounces, and there is empty space in the box.
>
> Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
> intelligence is being insulted.

The same one pound box of graham crackers is available for $1 at the
dollar store, Sav-A-Lot, and Wal-Mart. You can still select a 1# bag
of potato chips. Just look for the proper sized bag and buy that
instead of a lesser weight bag. This is not brain surgery.
Better yet, why not buy 15# of potatoes for $2.99 and make your own
healthy chips?
Surely, nobody would try to insult your intelligence.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:36 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

OhioGuy wrote:
> Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
> and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
> bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
> ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
> full 16 ounces - a pound.
...
> Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
> intelligence is being insulted.

Whenever the question is "Why do they do this?" the answers are usually
money or sex. Sex doesn't apply to corporations so you're left with only
money.

They do it because it makes them money.

Shrinking product sizes have been around ever since they started to
package foods. Don't worry too much about it though. In a little bit
they'll announce a new 'Jumbo' sized package with the original 16 oz.

I'm not even going to touch the intelligence insulting. If you even
glance at most adverts you'll quickly realize that they believe the
consumer as the IQ and long term memory of a goldfish. What passes
for most comedy these days is even more insulting to your IQ.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: THE INDIVIDUAL IDENTIFYING HIMSELF AS "KANGA" AND "KANGAROOISTAN" IS A
CONVICTED PEDOPHILE & REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER IN AUSTRALIA
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9244ea99729ff20f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 5:44 pm
From: johnvonlaws@hotmail.com

On Sep 10, 12:56 am, "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations,
Interpol" <1t8x0y...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
> and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
> counts of CHILD SODOMY and thirty counts of LEWD ACTS WITH A MINOR
> UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHT.
>
> Authorities believe this CHILD SODOMITE may be hiding from police in a
> run-down shack in the Australia outback.
>
> If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
> local police authority or COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special
> Investigations, Interpol.
>
> LET'S GET THIS FILTHY PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY
> FROM OUR CHILDREN.

==============================================================================

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25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 2:29 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> onionhead <no@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> John A. Weeks III wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or
>>>>> the job opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen.
>
>>>> Corse it does, we have seen some employers desperate to get
>>>> qualified staff, who dont get even a single applicant in response
>>>> to their national ads, jobs as basic as truck driving etc.
>
>> The trucking companies have only themselves to blame for that.
>> They got themselves a big fat exemption from the labor laws
>> years ago and never miss a chance to use it to screw their drivers.
>> As a result, working conditions are right out of the slave-labor
>> factories of the late 18th century. The only difference is that
>> truckers can quit when they get fed up: 95% of would-be truckers
>> see the writing on the wall and quit in their first 30 days.
>
> Different country.
>
>>> If you are not getting applicants in this market, then you are doing
>>> something very wrong. You either are not putting the ads in the
>>> right place, you are putting in requirements that are not needed,
>>> you are paying far under market, or your company has such a bad
>>> reputation that people don't want to work there. Which is it?
>
>> Or the applicants keep finding out that Rod works there.
>
> I dont.
>
>
Great, you finally admit that you do not work.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:59 am
From: ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)

In article <5kh9jvF3l2t0U1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
[snip]
>> Or even better, given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown
>> St. Paul, why not move some of your operations to the twin cities.
>
>Because these are usually operations that cant move.
>
>> You can get cheap class A and class B office space, workers
>> standing in line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in
>> incentives in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.
>
>Useless if you're a mining operation that needs apes to drive haulpaks etc.

They say you get monkeys if you pay peanuts. As these guys are
earning >$80,000 p.a. I guess that's why you get those big apes. ;-)

Incidentally, mate of mine was looking for a carpenter recently for a
job in PNG. No one around here was interested unless it was at least
$10,000/month cash in hand after tax. As he said, that was a bit
rich; they were hoping to get one for about $8,000/month after tax. :)
[For the record: at the present time AUD10,000 is about USD8,300.]

Cheers, Phred.

--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:46 am
From: professorchaos

royls@telus.net wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 04:22:12 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mindless stuff. Its also seen when the unemployment rate is very low
>> and you dont even get any applicants at all for a particular well paid job.
>
> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or the job
> opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen. The actual
> meaning of "labor shortage" is "wages not declining fast enough
> relative to asset prices to suit the rich."
>
> -- Roy L

Once again Roy shows he does not understand economics. Wages and asset
prices are not related on the market. Differences between rental rates
(the opportunity cost of capital) and wages affect demand for labor not
the quantity demanded. Rental rates on capital and the amount of capital
are fixed when deriving a short run labor supply curve.

A shortage is defined as when Quantity demanded exceeds Quantity
supplied. This MEANS WAGES ARE TOO LOW!! Not too high. A shortage occurs
in the labor market when employers want to hire more workers than are
available. Market prices must rise to clear the shortage. Given enough
time they will rise.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:49 am
From: professorchaos

Mark M. wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
> Low wages and high
> unemployment are indicators of a poor economy with high social service
> costs and high crime.

Low wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand has
increased and the market has yet to adjust. There has been something
that has happened that makes employers want to hire more but the wages
have yet to adjust.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:54 am
From: professorchaos

John A. Weeks III wrote:

> If you are not getting applicants in this market, then you
> are doing something very wrong. You either are not putting
> the ads in the right place, you are putting in requirements
> that are not needed, you are paying far under market, or your
> company has such a bad reputation that people don't want to
> work there. Which is it?
>
> -john-
>

There is another possibility that the market simply has not adjusted.
Economic analysis will tell you wages will rise when labor demands rise.
This does not mean immediately. There are some workers who will take the
new jobs advertised at lower rates when labor demand rises but it may
take a period of time for employers to realize they can not get enough
employees at the current wage.

It takes time to adjust. Businesses do not instantly know labor demand
has shifted and the new market wage will rise. They advertise at what
they think is the going rate. If they can not find workers then they
must raise the rate. As the rate goes up they want to hire less than
they would given the new demand and the old price until labor supply
equals labor demand.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:11 am
From: clams casino

professorchaos wrote:

> Mark M. wrote:
>
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Low wages and high unemployment are indicators of a poor economy with
>> high social service costs and high crime.
>
>
> Low wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand
> has increased and the market has yet to adjust. There has been
> something that has happened that makes employers want to hire more but
> the wages have yet to adjust.

Firstly, you need to ignore Rod - he's not really up to speed, being
nearly always wrong and / or makes a profession about trolling the
opposite side of any issue just to be annoying.

Secondly, isn't that statement backwards? Should it not read "Low
wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand has
decreased"? When there is an over supply of workers and/or a reduced
demand for labor (less jobs), the employer can hold back on wages & take
on those willing to work for less. Furthermore, employers don't hire
because wages are lower, but rather because they need workers. When
there is an excess number applying for that job, they can usually find
qualified workers at a lower wage.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 10:39 am
From: professorchaos

clams casino wrote:
> professorchaos wrote:
>
>> Mark M. wrote:
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Low wages and high unemployment are indicators of a poor economy with
>>> high social service costs and high crime.
>>
>>
>> Low wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand
>> has increased and the market has yet to adjust. There has been
>> something that has happened that makes employers want to hire more but
>> the wages have yet to adjust.
>
>
> Firstly, you need to ignore Rod - he's not really up to speed, being
> nearly always wrong and / or makes a profession about trolling the
> opposite side of any issue just to be annoying.
>
> Secondly, isn't that statement backwards? Should it not read "Low
> wages and high unemployment are indicative of that labor demand has
> decreased"?

I admit I committed a bonehead rookie mistake in assuming low employment
meant high unemployment. Unemployment is actually not the opposite of
employment. Unemployment is the percentage of the labor force looking
for work and not finding it. So if the labor market is in equilibrium
the unemployment rate will be low, near the natural rate. This is
because labor supply = labor demand.

I admit I committed a fallacy by confusing low employment with high
unemployment. They are not the same thing. Quantity supplied > Quantity
demanded is a shortage. So I am not sure what I was thinking when I
wrote this. Because an increase in labor supply employment is lower than
it should be. But as you correctly point out this does not mean
unemployment is high.

Your statement is almost correct. However, the wages would still be too
high if unemployment was high. So the decrease in wages would take care
of unemployment. The wages would be too high at this point.

The bonehead mistake is equating unemployment with employment. The
simple example I have shown my students many time should have made sure
I didn't make that mistake. The example is this. Assume the labor force
is 10 people and 90 people are out of the labor force. 9 people are
employed. 1 is unemployed. The unemployment rate is 10%.

Now that lets assume that economic conditions improve and wages rise.
Now there are 20 jobs available but 40 people now enter the labor force.
The unemployment rate is 30/50 > 10%. Unemployment rises as new jobs are
created. Therefore unemployment rates tell us nothing of employment.

My bone head mistake was assuming employment said something about
unemployment. It does not.

Unemployment is a result of a surplus in the labor market. In the
situation I described unemployment would be non-existance.

So the statement low wages and unemployment does not really make sense
in a market environment. Not if you define low wages as compared to the
going rate. Obviously the term low wages here refers to a normative
statement that wages are low not low as compared to market wages.

So it is impossible to have wages lower than market rates and high
unemployment. It is possible to have wages higher than market rates and
unemployment be high and still have low wages if you use some subjective
standard to market wages.

The real confusion here is the thread talks about shortages then claims
unemployment is high. If a shortage in labor exist then unemployment is
low. You can't have a shortage in labor and have unemployment by
definition. Unemployment means there are more people looking for work
than jobs available. A short means more jobs available than people
looking for work.

> When there is an over supply of workers and/or a reduced
> demand for labor (less jobs), the employer can hold back on wages & take
> on those willing to work for less.

This does not cause unemployment. It would decrease unemployment if they
were dropping the wage rate to hire more people.

> Furthermore, employers don't hire
> because wages are lower, but rather because they need workers.

Ah but when wages are lower hiring more workers is profitable. The cost
of production decreases so the profit optimizing output increases. In
order to get the new profit maximizing output they need more workers. So
they need more workers because wages dropped.

Note this is not the only reason they may need more workers. The price
of the final good could have risen, raw materials could have risen in
price, new technologies could be in place. All of these would cause
firms to want more workers and increase labor demand.

> When
> there is an excess number applying for that job, they can usually find
> qualified workers at a lower wage.

In other words you are making the classical assumption that there is no
friction in labor markets. Firms simply lower wages when unemployment
exist. So the market clears at lower wages because LS = LD. Keynesians
certainly do not see it this way because there are efficiency wages,
implicit contracts, or workers will resist a decrease in wages,
unemployment persist because the wage stays too high. That is the
backbone of the Keynesian, and New Keynesian, argument.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:46 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote

>>> Or even better, given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown
>>> St. Paul, why not move some of your operations to the twin cities.

>> Because these are usually operations that cant move.

>>> You can get cheap class A and class B office space, workers
>>> standing in line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in
>>> incentives in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.

>> Useless if you're a mining operation that needs apes to drive haulpaks etc.

> They say you get monkeys if you pay peanuts. As these guys are
> earning >$80,000 p.a. I guess that's why you get those big apes. ;-)

True. In spades with those proof of Darwin's theory, footballers.

> Incidentally, mate of mine was looking for a carpenter recently for a
> job in PNG. No one around here was interested unless it was at least
> $10,000/month cash in hand after tax. As he said, that was a bit
> rich; they were hoping to get one for about $8,000/month after tax. :)
> [For the record: at the present time AUD10,000 is about USD8,300.]

And then there's getting them to work in Iraq.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 3:58 am
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid

According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, these chip implants
are not only safe, they will save lives by allowing the human bearer to
effortlessly carry his entire medical history around with him wherever
he goes. Indeed, the FDA assurances sound almost *exactly* like the chip
manufacturer's sales literature, but with the added ring of "authority".
The chips were enthusiastically endorsed by the agency during the Bush
appointment of Tommy Thompson, Republican from Wisconsin, working in
concert with Jim Sennsenbrenner, Republican Congressman also from
Wisconsin, who also peddled the chips his so-called "Real I.D." Act (HR
418).

So why won't the FDA divulge to the press exactly *which* studies it
reviewed to make this assessment? What's the big secret, FDA? Is it that
a Federal Agency obligated to protect the American people has happily,
blithely approved a passive surveillance device which is now shown to
nourish malignent cell growth in microchipped animals? I wonder if
Thompson and Sennsenbrenner have had their pets or children injected
with these things?

<http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYssebw3_FRuof2bdR1YdCo8OgXA>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suing a Dentist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef6126f6980eacfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 4:11 am
From: Al Bundy

soretooth wrote:
> I bet your a dentist right?
>
> In any case in my many many years of seeing dentists and having many
> filings replaced, this is the first time this has ever happened to me.
>
> There are other issues involved that show this guy probably committed
> malpractice, but, as I said there is not enough money involved to
> interest most attorneys.
>
> I know what to do, but not sure it will get my money back that was
> wasted.
>
> I do know that it will wind up costing him alot more than it cost me.
>
> If you go to an mechanic and you get your car back worse than went you
> went in, do you just pay the bill and walk away with a smile. Especially
> now when these shysters are demanding payment in advance for their work.
>
>
>
OH, but it's very likely a process was already starting in your
tooth. The dentist took the logical step and tried a filling instead
of complete root canal and crown. Yes, wait until you see the
complete bill for the root canal and crown. The cost of the filling
will seem nugatory at that point. Go somewhere else and give them the
money.

Many people take their cars in for one thing and something else goes
bad at the same time. If they know anything about mechanics, they
don't blame the shop. There may or may not be a correlation. You
should take your question to the dental group where professionals can
advise you.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:25 am
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

I have had to have fillings replaced because they were coming loose.
The replacement itself is not necessarily the problem.

Have you gotten a second opinion?

soretooth wrote:
> Anyone here sued a dentist. Guy replaced filing on tooth that did not
> hurt, now in pain and might need root canal. And he is expecting me to
> pay for his procedure that failed and left me worse off than before.
> What recourse do I have if any. Amount is not enuf to get the attention
> of most attorneys.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:50 am
From: Wooly

Seems as if we had this discussion within recent memory, and the upshot
was:

Shit happens. If you can't deal with the fact that shit happens you
need to move back into your parents' household and let them deal with
shit in an adult fashion since you obviously can't.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: evidence for legalization of pedophilia
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b576e4b85b53911a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:38 am
From: commander zero rides

The work of the anthropologist Gilbert Herdt documents that pedophilia
is legal safe and openly practiced as part of societal custom in the
sambia society. Students of cultural anthropology in university study
this.

Pedophilia is practiced safely in many countries although they do not
brag about it because funding from Western organizations may be
jeopardized. Observe that the arrests overseas of suspected
pedophiles are only of citizens of western countries, never of natives
of those countries.

Consult the book, Harmful to Minors, by Judith Levine; or the book
"Love Against Hate" by Karl Meninger, M.D.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:15 am
From: Logan Shaw

commander zero rides wrote:
> The work of the anthropologist Gilbert Herdt documents that pedophilia
> is legal safe and openly practiced as part of societal custom in the
> sambia society. Students of cultural anthropology in university study
> this.
>
> Pedophilia is practiced safely in many countries although they do not
> brag about it because funding from Western organizations may be
> jeopardized. Observe that the arrests overseas of suspected
> pedophiles are only of citizens of western countries, never of natives
> of those countries.

I've been reading Usenet for over 15 years, and this is the most
obvious troll I've seen so far!

- Logan

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:33 am
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 9, 10:15 am, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> commander zero rides wrote:
> > The work of the anthropologist Gilbert Herdt documents that pedophilia
> > is legal safe and openly practiced as part of societal custom in the
> > sambia society. Students of cultural anthropology in university study
> > this.
>
> > Pedophilia is practiced safely in many countries although they do not
> > brag about it because funding from Western organizations may be
> > jeopardized. Observe that the arrests overseas of suspected
> > pedophiles are only of citizens of western countries, never of natives
> > of those countries.
>
> I've been reading Usenet for over 15 years, and this is the most
> obvious troll I've seen so far!
>
> - Logan

No doubt true, Logan, and it also tells us what type of things are on
his mind. Jim Jones had a few followers too.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 6:46 am
From: "Lou"

"Chris Hill" <hillco@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cad5e39kjanujumeo9a3uneefl39kakf45@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:31:13 -0700, SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Comments?
> >It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
> >every
> >year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
>
>
> You never save money by trading payments for repair costs. Even
> spending $1200 a year repair costs on a truck is cheaper than paying
> $6000 a year in payments or more. Cost isn't a valid reason to trade;
> too many breakdowns or parts being unavailable are two good ones.

Never say never - I had one car where the monthly repair costs were greater
than the monthly payments on a brand new vehicle. Car was three or four
years old when the repairs started mounting up - lemon with a capital L.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:36 am
From: Rick

SQ wrote:
>
> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.
>
> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
> a $22K vehicle last 22 years.

Specifically, what about the Toyota Corolla? Are the tales about
longevity with low repair problems a myth or is it true?

Rick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: big loophole in prison sentences "without possibility of parole"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cef8b58cc904b3b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:42 am
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 8, 10:42 am, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> In Maryland, a monster can earn "diminution credits" and get
> transferred to home detention in order to better pursue old
> hobbies and pastimes from the comforts of home.
>
> http://mobile.baltimoresun.com/news.jsp?key=157905
>
> A prison sentence "without possibility of parole" means nothing.
> Apparently they can make up new rules to get around that at any time.
>
> Keep hoping, Charlie Manson.
>
> Don

In my state the governor wants to relieve the prison system burden by
reclassifying many felonies as misdemeanors. Then let prisoners go for
time served against the new class.
Manson is too high profile to be let out. If you listen to what Manson
says and try to get past the code words he uses, he makes way more
sense than the prison officials and parole board. Can you imagine the
money Manson could bring in with public appearances if he were allowed
to?

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:56 am
From: "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations, Interpol" <1t8x0yk02@
sneakemail.com>

This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
counts of CHILD SODOMY and thirty counts of LEWD ACTS WITH A MINOR
UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHT.

Authorities believe this CHILD SODOMITE may be hiding from police in a
run-down shack in the Australia outback.

If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
local police authority or COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special
Investigations, Interpol.

LET'S GET THIS FILTHY PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY
FROM OUR CHILDREN.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 9:29 am
From: kangarooistan

On Sep 9, 11:56 pm, "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations,
Interpol" <1t8x0y...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
> and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
On Sep 9, 11:56 pm, "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations,
Interpol" <1t8x0y...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> This dangerous pervert slipped through a police sting two years ago
> and has since managed to evade capture. He is wanted for twenty
> counts of CHILD SODOMY and thirty counts of LEWD ACTS WITH A MINOR
> UNDER THE AGE OF EIGHT.
>
> Authorities believe this CHILD SODOMITE may be hiding from police in a
> run-down shack in the Australia outback.

HIDING half way between the police station and the foriegn minister
Downers head OFFICE ????

Funny place to hide mate
>
> If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
> local police authority or COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special
> Investigations, Interpol.
>
> LET'S GET THIS FILTHY PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY
> FROM OUR CHILDREN.

Easy fixed mate

What you do is google

www.kangarooistan.com.au is a good place to start looking mate

HA HA HA HA HA or look up the election roll

You just Ring the Mount Barker police station in South Australia and
tell them all you know

Leave YOUR name an address with them so they know your for real OK
mate

HA HA HA HA

Tell the coppers that Mal Fabian can be found at his normal place ,
just down the street , next door, over the creek , to Alexander
Downers office , he is the minister for foreign affairs and the local
MP

Not hard to find kanga mate

OK MATE

HA HA HA HA HA

But mate ,we all know you wont even ring them

Cos you are just ANOTHER gutless coward who thinks kanga or anybody
else believes anything YOU say

HA HA HA HA

kanga

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 7:59 am
From: "OhioGuy"

When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
getting either a listing credit or final value credit.

What happened to this? Now it appears that the only way I can get a
"credit" is to relist the item! Of course, that can actually make them even
more money, and is not a true credit.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:27 am
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Well, I have seen MANY Ebay sellers abuse the relisting privilege (and
even left neutral feedback for one noting that they had abused this by
"relisting" the item they sold to me), so I suppose they ruined it for
lots of people.

OhioGuy wrote:
> When I used to list items on Ebay, and they didn't sell, I seem to recall
> getting either a listing credit or final value credit.
>
> What happened to this? Now it appears that the only way I can get a
> "credit" is to relist the item! Of course, that can actually make them even
> more money, and is not a true credit.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hello
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0bbf392a4c9ac5ee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 8:09 am
From: Stone hong

Carve but give up half way, even a decayed piece of wood will not
break; carve without stop, even metal and stone can be engraved.
As a jade without chiseling will not become a useful object, a man
without learning will not know the Way.

http://www.maplem.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: health care
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b9090467738f551b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 8:57 am
From: muwan

keep you and your family health,just go to http://www.health-ask.com,
free oline answers for your health questions.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - buying a politican?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e0b797e682df7d0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 11:40 am
From: Rick

Bill wrote:
>
> >
> > Are there any on Ebay?
> >
>
> I like that idea!
>
> When a vote is coming up on something, everybody could bid for them to vote
> one way or another. Perhaps everybody could "pool" their funds for them to
> vote a certain way. I wonder if "We the people" could collectively outbid
> some of these large corporations? Maybe get them to spend OUR money here in
> the U.S. instead of sending 30 billion dollars to Israel or the 50 billion
> we have spent on Egypt since the 70's...
>
> United States Foreign Aid Summary Chart
> http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

As weird as this idea sounds, it may not be a bad idea either. It would
be about the only way the poor and disenfranchised could pool enough
money to get the attention of the political status quo and get some
things done which don't involve benefiting multi-million dollar
corporations.

Rick

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* (www.sneakers-wholesale.com) wholesale nike t-shirts - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01fe32c66df75337?hl=en

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:17 pm
From: Gordon

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1189225873.713971.231390@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

>
> Comments?
> It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
> every
> year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
> upgrade?
>
> If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
> beyond
> is not an issue...
>
>
It can be done. I took a '89 Mazda 626 to 195,000 before my
wife burned out the clutch. It could have gone much further.
I think I saved even more money because I bought it 3 years old.

And that's one idea for saving money on cars. A new car looses
30-50% of it's value in the first 3 years. After that it looses
less than 10% of it's value per year. So by buying a three year
old car you are letting someone else take the sucker punch of the
highest loss of value.

Now, there are those who say you should buy a three year old car
and replace it every year. BUt how much wear and tear can you put
on a car in one year?

So I guess the best idea is to buy a 3 to 5 year old car. Take care
of it to the best of your abilities. When it starts becoming unrelyable,
replace it.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 9:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1189225873.713971.231390@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> Comments?
>> It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new
>> one every
>> year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
>> upgrade?
>>
>> If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
>> beyond
>> is not an issue...
>>
>>
> It can be done. I took a '89 Mazda 626 to 195,000 before my
> wife burned out the clutch. It could have gone much further.
> I think I saved even more money because I bought it 3 years old.
>
> And that's one idea for saving money on cars. A new car looses
> 30-50% of it's value in the first 3 years. After that it looses
> less than 10% of it's value per year. So by buying a three year
> old car you are letting someone else take the sucker punch of the
> highest loss of value.
>
> Now, there are those who say you should buy a three year old car
> and replace it every year. BUt how much wear and tear can you put
> on a car in one year?
>
> So I guess the best idea is to buy a 3 to 5 year old car. Take care
> of it to the best of your abilities. When it starts becoming
> unrelyable, replace it.

Depends on how long you keep it. I kept my last one for 30+ years
and the saving on not buying it new is pretty trivial with that sort of
time, and you know that the car hasnt been abused if you buy it new.

I replaced it with another new one with a 5 year warranty,
unlimited miles as far as my use is concerned, just for the
effortless 5 years and not having to fart around having it
tested for registration etc. My state has some pretty rigorous
registration checks which are a bit of a nuisance with older cars.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 10:25 pm
From: SQ

I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.

It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs.
a $22K vehicle last 22 years.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 10:35 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I heard that a frugal vehicle should cost $1,000 per year
> not counting regular maintenance such as brakes and oil.

Mine didnt cost anything like that in the last 90% of the 30+ years.

Not even $200.

> It's much easier to make a $5K vehicle last 5 years vs. a $22K vehicle last 22 years.

Not if you pick the $22K vehicle properly and I paid a lot less than that for its replacement too.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:17 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <5kh059F3jg2vU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or the
> >>> job opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen.
>
> >> Corse it does, we have seen some employers desperate to get
> >> qualified staff, who dont get even a single applicant in response
> >> to their national ads, jobs as basic as truck driving etc.
>
> > If you are not getting applicants in this market,
> > then you are doing something very wrong.
>
> Or the economy is booming.

At least maybe where you are located. Here in the Twin Cities,
things are starting to look like the dust bowl years. We have
lost 50% of our high tech jobs since the year 2000, with entire
segments such as contract manufacturing evaporating, and
information technology jobs being moved overseas.

> > You either are not putting the ads in the right place, you
> > are putting in requirements that are not needed, you are
> > paying far under market, or your company has such a bad
> > reputation that people don't want to work there. Which is it?
>
> Usual mindlessly silly binary drivel.
>
> The real reason is that some of our areas have an unemployment
> rate of 1.x% and a desperate shortage of adequate accomodation
> and plenty arent interested in 'living' in tents and trailers for long.

Why not post where you are located? I'd live in an RV if I could
have my 1999 and year 2000 level income again. In fact, I'd live
in an RV to get half of what I was earning back then. Or why
doesn't your company recruit in places where there are so many
excess workers like Minneapolis and Detroit? Or even better,
given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown St. Paul,
why not move some of your operations to the twin cities. You can
get cheap class A and class B office space, workers standing in
line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in incentives
in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications

http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 9:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or the
>>>>> job opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen.

>>>> Corse it does, we have seen some employers desperate to get
>>>> qualified staff, who dont get even a single applicant in response
>>>> to their national ads, jobs as basic as truck driving etc.

>>> If you are not getting applicants in this market,
>>> then you are doing something very wrong.

>> Or the economy is booming.

> At least maybe where you are located.

No maybe about it.

> Here in the Twin Cities, things are starting to look like the dust
> bowl years. We have lost 50% of our high tech jobs since the
> year 2000, with entire segments such as contract manufacturing
> evaporating, and information technology jobs being moved overseas.

Irrelevant to particular fields like truck driving etc etc etc.

>>> You either are not putting the ads in the right place, you
>>> are putting in requirements that are not needed, you are
>>> paying far under market, or your company has such a bad
>>> reputation that people don't want to work there. Which is it?

>> Usual mindlessly silly binary drivel.

>> The real reason is that some of our areas have an unemployment
>> rate of 1.x% and a desperate shortage of adequate accomodation
>> and plenty arent interested in 'living' in tents and trailers for long.

> Why not post where you are located?

Irrelevant to that stupid claim in the subject line that is being discussed.

> I'd live in an RV if I could have my 1999 and year 2000 level income again.

That isnt necessarily that viable if you have kids.

> In fact, I'd live in an RV to get half of what I was earning back then.

Yep, some do just that, and plenty dont, which is what produces the
dearth of applicants for particular jobs being advertised at times.

> Or why doesn't your company recruit in places where there
> are so many excess workers like Minneapolis and Detroit?

I never said a word about my company and that is precisely
what is done, in places which have many more excess
workers than those places too, outside the country.

They're so desperate for applicant they they are happy to pay their air fares etc.

> Or even better, given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown
> St. Paul, why not move some of your operations to the twin cities.

Because these are usually operations that cant move.

> You can get cheap class A and class B office space, workers
> standing in line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in
> incentives in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.

Useless if you're a mining operation that needs apes to drive haulpaks etc.

In spades when you need apes to drive by far
the biggest iron ore trains in the entire world.

You've got your parochial blinkers on, again.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 9:29 pm
From: onionhead

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:07:39 -0500, John A. Weeks III wrote:

> In article <5kgch9F3jkghU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or the job
>> > opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen.
>>
>> Corse it does, we have seen some employers desperate to get qualified
>> staff, who dont get even a single applicant in response to their
>> national ads, jobs as basic as truck driving etc.

The trucking companies have only themselves to blame for that. They got
themselves a big fat exemption from the labor laws years ago and never
miss a chance to use it to screw their drivers. As a result, working
conditions are right out of the slave-labor factories of the late 18th
century. The only difference is that truckers can quit when they get fed
up: 95% of would-be truckers see the writing on the wall and quit in
their first 30 days.

> If you are not getting applicants in this market, then you are doing
> something very wrong. You either are not putting the ads in the right
> place, you are putting in requirements that are not needed, you are paying
> far under market, or your company has such a bad reputation that people
> don't want to work there. Which is it?

Or the applicants keep finding out that Rod works there.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 10:33 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

onionhead <no@nospam.invalid> wrote
> John A. Weeks III wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> LOL! Unless the qualifications are EXTREMELY narrow or
>>>> the job opening not publicized, that simply does not ever happen.

>>> Corse it does, we have seen some employers desperate to get
>>> qualified staff, who dont get even a single applicant in response
>>> to their national ads, jobs as basic as truck driving etc.

> The trucking companies have only themselves to blame for that.
> They got themselves a big fat exemption from the labor laws
> years ago and never miss a chance to use it to screw their drivers.
> As a result, working conditions are right out of the slave-labor
> factories of the late 18th century. The only difference is that
> truckers can quit when they get fed up: 95% of would-be truckers
> see the writing on the wall and quit in their first 30 days.

Different country.

>> If you are not getting applicants in this market, then you are doing
>> something very wrong. You either are not putting the ads in the
>> right place, you are putting in requirements that are not needed,
>> you are paying far under market, or your company has such a bad
>> reputation that people don't want to work there. Which is it?

> Or the applicants keep finding out that Rod works there.

I dont.

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01fe32c66df75337?hl=en
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Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 11:03 pm
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