Frugal Living: Dec 22, 2008

Monday, December 22, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Collision insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2850cf9d787416a8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

Marsha wrote:

> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and
> keep only liability coverage. I have a 2004 Malibu.

Compare the cost of the premium with the maximum the insurance company
will pay if your car is totaled -- which means that even if the car is
driveable the cost of repair exceeds its value -- according to the
insurance company. It's up to you to decide.

--
Cheers, Bev
==============================================================
"I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns and
women join the unqualified men in running our government"
-- Cissy Farenthold

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:09 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
> only liability coverage.

That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
know most of this data.

Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:

1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?

If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.

2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)

If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:33 pm
From: James

On Dec 22, 7:09 pm, "SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote:
> "Marsha" <m...@xeb.net> wrote in messagenews:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
> > Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
> > only liability coverage.
>
> That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
> the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
> know most of this data.
>
> Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:
>
> 1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
> a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
> stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.
>
> 2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
> enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.

I dropped the collision but kept the comp. Good thing because I've
since collected 3 times on the comp. Once a deer hit me, and 2 glass
breakage due to vandalism. I've also had lots of collisions but I
figure I pay for it either way. If I had the insurance they jack up
my premiums for 3 years.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:47 pm
From: Marsha

SpammersDie wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
>> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
>> only liability coverage.
>
> That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
> the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
> know most of this data.
>
> Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:
>
> 1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
> a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
> stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.
>
>
> 2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
> enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.
>

Yes and Yes. I have another older car that does not have comp and
collision, and I could pay cash for another comparable car without undue
hardship. Just undecided whether to take that chance this early. The
insurance company is charging $125.00/yr for collision and $45.00 for
damage other than collision, but the car is still worth about $7,000.

Marsha/Ohio

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:49 pm
From: Marsha

The Real Bev wrote:
> Marsha wrote:
>
>> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and
>> keep only liability coverage. I have a 2004 Malibu.
>
> Compare the cost of the premium with the maximum the insurance company
> will pay if your car is totaled -- which means that even if the car is
> driveable the cost of repair exceeds its value -- according to the
> insurance company. It's up to you to decide.
>

My husband and I were just discussing this. It doesn't take much to
"total" a car anymore, at least in the insurance company's eye.

Marsha/Ohio

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:14 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 22, 4:09 pm, "SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote:
> "Marsha" <m...@xeb.net> wrote in messagenews:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
> > Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
> > only liability coverage.
>
> That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
> the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
> know most of this data.
>
> Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:
>
> 1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
> a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
> stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.
>
> 2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
> enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.

good advice imo

there is also the issue of who causes an accident. 40% involve drunk
drivers, so if you dont get drunk, nor drive around a lot in night
time traffic then the odds of you getting in an accident are much less
than the averages, making your primary risk one of being hit by an
uninsured motorist.... additionally if you dont put many miles on a
car and have a driving history of very few accidents..then the premium
you pay for comprehensive may be over priced.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 11:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Marsha wrote:

> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep only liability coverage.

Varys with what your assets are like, and whether you
must have a viable car to keep your job, and whether
you are likely to cause the damage yourself etc.

Clearly if you have considerable assets, its just a nuisance
even if it does get written off and that was your fault so you
wont be able to force anyone else to pay for the replacement.

> I have a 2004 Malibu.

Its not old enough to be an absolute that it isnt worth having collision cover.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .99 store complaint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/344e32ee920ae3a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:03 pm
From: The Real Bev

AndyS wrote:

> Evelyn Leeper wrote:
>> Same here. They are the most consistent in pricing, and usually have
>> the best selection. (Which is not to say that there won't be some items
>> one can find at other dollar stores that they don't carry.)
>
>
> Andy writes:
>
> Same here in Corsicana, Texas ......

Home of really expensive fruitcakes that really aren't all that good.

--
Cheers, Bev (who actually likes fruitcake)
==============================================================
"I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns and
women join the unqualified men in running our government"
-- Cissy Farenthold

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:32 pm
From: AndyS

The Real Bev wrote:

> Home of really expensive fruitcakes that really aren't all that good.
>

Andy commets:

Yeah, me too !!! I even like the one dollar fruit cake slices that
Walmart sells. I don't understand why people give fruit cake
a bad rap.....

Anyway, Collin Street Bakery seems to be expanding down
here, along with Russel Stover candies..... ...... right along with
the
waistline of middle America.....

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:51 pm
From: The Real Bev

AndyS wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Home of really expensive fruitcakes that really aren't all that good.
>
> Andy commets:
>
> Yeah, me too !!! I even like the one dollar fruit cake slices that
> Walmart sells. I don't understand why people give fruit cake
> a bad rap.....

Citron. Green bitter stuff. Cheap, of course.

Next time you're at the market, look at the cheap fruitcake fruit mix.
TURNIPS! CITRON!

My mom used to get rectangular fruitcakes containing nuts, pineapple and
cherries and enough cake to hold them together. Wonder where they came
from...

> Anyway, Collin Street Bakery seems to be expanding down
> here, along with Russel Stover candies..... ...... right along with
> the waistline of middle America.....

--
Cheers,
Bev
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
SAVE GAS, FART IN A JAR

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:33 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-2BFE46.21060721122008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have done
>> this year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets and
>> such.
>>
>> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over
>> and over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started
>> reusing the bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even
>> plastic cereal bags from inside the boxes). So now we reuse our
>> bread wrappers, and I've cut down on the purchase of sandwich bags
>> by about 20%. It feels good to reuse something we were formerly
>> throwing away without thinking about it, too.
>>
>> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have our
>> laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the
>> laptop plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer.
>> We also have a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a
>> bit of energy all the time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use
>> once in a great while. I put all of these on the power strip, and
>> now I switch it all off at night. No more power draw on the electric
>> bill for a whole weekend if we are away.
>>
>> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?
>
> We put up a cloths line and stopped using the dryer.
>
> We started car pooling to work and now turn off our cars at stop lights.
Starter motors ect arent cheap.......budget
.

>
> My wife carries her bike on the back of the car now, so she can park
> where it's free and bike the rest of the way to work. (The car pooling
> works by her driving me to work, which is between home and her work.)
>
> Those of the family going to college started checking out their books
> from the library instead of buying them.
>
> Lastly, we planed a "recycle christmas" all presents purchased had to be
> used (thrift store stuff for example.)
>
> --
> Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
> but when there is nothing left to take away.
> -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

Nicik Name wrote:

> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> We put up a cloths line and stopped using the dryer.
>>
>> We started car pooling to work and now turn off our cars at stop lights.

Isn't there some rule of thumb about how long you should idle and when
you should turn the engine off?

> Starter motors ect arent cheap.......budget

They're not that expensive either, especially if you put it in yourself.
I've done it, and better than the dealer who left out 1 of the 3 bolts
and left the other two loose.

And then there are people who downshift to slow down at stoplights --
hasn't it ever occurred to them that brake pads are WAY cheaper and
easier to replace than a clutch?

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================================
If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting
them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for
no good reason. - Jack Handy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HSBC only gives me 1% on 2% reward card
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5f426846387c1c7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:41 pm
From: James

On Dec 22, 4:29 pm, jul...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been using HSBC "2% reward card" (Master Card, see linkhttp://www.hsbccreditcard.com/ecare/cards?docId=Cards_Tab_data_cards_...
> ) for about a year. This card is supposed to give me 2% rebate on all
> weekend purchases (based on Transaction Date as defined in the
> Agreement). However, recently I did an audit on my past year
> statements and found I received only 1% in ALL of my weekend
> purchases. I then call HSBC card customer rep, and they did not give
> me a clear answer. I then contacted the HSBS management and complained
> the issue with BBB (July 2008). Only then did I receive an official
> letter from the HSBC, admitting the error. The mistake was system wide
> and every card member received only 1% rebate on the weekend
> purchases. They promised me to fix the problem, but three months later
> when I called the rep again, still no solution. As of today
> (12/22/2008), I still get 1% reward only. I never receive the other
> missing 1% as originally promised in the card Agreement.
>
> Since everyone is affected, why is there no such related complaint in
> the Internet? If you have HSBC 2% reward card, have you done an audit
> on the reward calculations?

My best deal is the Shell gas card. I suppose other oil card give the
same deal. 5% off on gasoline. Usually cheaper with the rebate than
no name gas. Of course if gas drops below a buck the no name gas
might come out cheaper.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:04 pm
From: The Real Bev

James wrote:

> On Dec 22, 4:29 pm, jul...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Since everyone is affected, why is there no such related complaint in
>> the Internet? If you have HSBC 2% reward card, have you done an audit
>> on the reward calculations?

Not easy to do. (1) A lot depends on how the merchant announces itself,
which you have no way of knowing; and (2) there is no breakdown given.
The website may offer more complete information, but still not enough.

I figure I have to trust them; anything else is a LOT of work for
little return.

> My best deal is the Shell gas card. I suppose other oil card give the
> same deal. 5% off on gasoline. Usually cheaper with the rebate than
> no name gas. Of course if gas drops below a buck the no name gas
> might come out cheaper.

Costco gas is almost always significantly cheaper than the cheapest gas
anywhere nearby AND you get a 3% rebate if you have the Costco-Amex
card, which is free. And they give you a better rebate breakdown than
the Visa/MC people do. Don't know about Discover, I've only used the
card twice since they started up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Many Uses of Baking Soda
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/670e2113209019eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:47 pm
From: Ablang

The Many Uses of Baking Soda

Baking soda is one of the most versatile cleaning agents on earth. It
is highly absorbent making it an excellent deodorizer. Best of all,
it's non-toxic. As a matter of fact, if the thought of your next
cleaning project gives you indigestion, half a teaspoon of baking soda
stirred into a glass of water works as well as some over-the-counter
drugs sold strictly for that purpose. Check with your doctor before
using this remedy.

With all of the cleaners that are available on the market today it's
hard to tell which one is best for a particular cleaning project. Some
general purpose cleaners contain detergents and-or bleach, others use
sodium carbonate and bleach, while others have an oxalic acid or
phosphoric acid base. The wide range of chemicals used in general
purpose cleaners makes reading the label a must, not only to prevent
damage to what's being cleaned, but for safety as well. Some cleaners
are poisonous and/or not biodegradable.

We suggest common household food products for cleaning because they
are inexpensive, readily available, safe, and work as well or better
than many off-the-shelf cleaners. In addition to baking soda, vinegar,
salt, food-grade citric acid, juice from a fresh lemon, ice cubes, and
mayonnaise, are food products that you can use for cleaning.

Vinegar and water is great for cleaning glazed tile and dark tile
grout as well. Food-grade citric acid is super for dissolving mineral
salt that builds up in water heater tanks. Lemon juice works well in
cleaning oil and grease from plastic laminated counters; a 50-50
solution of salt and vinegar makes a terrific copper cleaner; ice
cubes are the best first-step in getting wax crayon stains off kids
clothing; mayonnaise and a nylon scrubbing pad work wonders on white-
rings on wood furniture; and baking soda, which this week's column
concentrates on, should be renamed "baking, deodorizing, fire-
extinguishing and washing soda."

Baking soda will put out a grease fire, clean scorched food from
cookware, absorb odors from the refrigerator, clean and deodorize
drains, soften and deodorize laundry, and will also remove stains from
porcelain, enamelware, glass, plastic, carpets and rugs.

For burned-on food, mix up a paste of baking soda and water. Actually,
dry baking soda can be used in lieu of scouring cleanser and best of
all, it's non-abrasive.

Coffee pot stained? Tomato sauce remnants left in a plastic storage
container? A paste of baking soda and water will do the trick. Keep a
box of baking soda in the refrigerator to reduce odors. Once a week
pour a handful down the drain and rinse with hot water. Your drain
will stay clean and smell fresh.

Price of fabric softeners got you down? Use half a cup of baking soda
in the rinse cycle.

To remove stains from carpets and rugs follow this procedure: While
the stain is wet, use baking soda to absorb the excess. Then, cover
the stain that's left with another application of baking soda, let it
sit overnight and vacuum it the next day.

http://www.onthehouse.com/wp/20081203

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:57 pm
From: Marsha

Ablang wrote:
> The Many Uses of Baking Soda
>
> Baking soda is one of the most versatile cleaning agents on earth. It
> is highly absorbent making it an excellent deodorizer. Best of all,
> it's non-toxic. As a matter of fact, if the thought of your next
> cleaning project gives you indigestion, half a teaspoon of baking soda
> stirred into a glass of water works as well as some over-the-counter
> drugs sold strictly for that purpose. Check with your doctor before
> using this remedy.
>
> With all of the cleaners that are available on the market today it's
> hard to tell which one is best for a particular cleaning project. Some
> general purpose cleaners contain detergents and-or bleach, others use
> sodium carbonate and bleach, while others have an oxalic acid or
> phosphoric acid base. The wide range of chemicals used in general
> purpose cleaners makes reading the label a must, not only to prevent
> damage to what's being cleaned, but for safety as well. Some cleaners
> are poisonous and/or not biodegradable.
>
> We suggest common household food products for cleaning because they
> are inexpensive, readily available, safe, and work as well or better
> than many off-the-shelf cleaners. In addition to baking soda, vinegar,
> salt, food-grade citric acid, juice from a fresh lemon, ice cubes, and
> mayonnaise, are food products that you can use for cleaning.
>
> Vinegar and water is great for cleaning glazed tile and dark tile
> grout as well. Food-grade citric acid is super for dissolving mineral
> salt that builds up in water heater tanks. Lemon juice works well in
> cleaning oil and grease from plastic laminated counters; a 50-50
> solution of salt and vinegar makes a terrific copper cleaner; ice
> cubes are the best first-step in getting wax crayon stains off kids
> clothing; mayonnaise and a nylon scrubbing pad work wonders on white-
> rings on wood furniture; and baking soda, which this week's column
> concentrates on, should be renamed "baking, deodorizing, fire-
> extinguishing and washing soda."
>
> Baking soda will put out a grease fire, clean scorched food from
> cookware, absorb odors from the refrigerator, clean and deodorize
> drains, soften and deodorize laundry, and will also remove stains from
> porcelain, enamelware, glass, plastic, carpets and rugs.
>
> For burned-on food, mix up a paste of baking soda and water. Actually,
> dry baking soda can be used in lieu of scouring cleanser and best of
> all, it's non-abrasive.
>
> Coffee pot stained? Tomato sauce remnants left in a plastic storage
> container? A paste of baking soda and water will do the trick. Keep a
> box of baking soda in the refrigerator to reduce odors. Once a week
> pour a handful down the drain and rinse with hot water. Your drain
> will stay clean and smell fresh.
>
> Price of fabric softeners got you down? Use half a cup of baking soda
> in the rinse cycle.
>
> To remove stains from carpets and rugs follow this procedure: While
> the stain is wet, use baking soda to absorb the excess. Then, cover
> the stain that's left with another application of baking soda, let it
> sit overnight and vacuum it the next day.
>
> http://www.onthehouse.com/wp/20081203

I mix 1 c. baking soda, 2 c. white vinegar, and 2 c. water for fabric
softener. A paste works great for getting coffee or tea stains.

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maintenance of pressure cooker
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2ef109355c1f241d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:34 pm
From: Arumugham

Clean your pressure cooker thoroughly after each use by washing and
drying.
Avoid using abrasives or metal scouring pads.
Use soap and water with a plastic scouring pad for cleaning.
Store your pressure cooker with the lid slightly open.
Replace gasket at the first sign of cracking, flaking or tearing.
Ensure all handles and knobs are securely fastened before using
pressure cooker.
Tighten nuts or screws if required.

http://usefulcookingtips.blogspot.com/2008/12/care-and-maintenance-of-pressure-cooker.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: poverty line
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4eaa805a9a816468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 7:35 pm
From: James

If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do? Are
you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
you for welfare?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 8:11 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <b1487a77-2cf2-4430-8295-47d42ad1e00b@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do? Are
>you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
>eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
>you for welfare?

It's a number that qualifies you to be a political football.

What you'd be able to afford while "at the poverty line" varies tremendously
depending on where you live. In New York, LA, or DC, you'd barely be able
to eat; forget about an apartment or wardrobe. In other areas, you'd have
no problem getting an apartment, affording food, and having decent clothes.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man"
General of the Army (four stars) Ann Dunwoody

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:25 pm
From: Dave Garland

James wrote:
> If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do?

Live in an "adequate" fashion.

There is no single number for that line, it will depend on where you
live, how expensive things are in your area, how many members are in
your household, etc.

> Are
> you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
> eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
> you for welfare?

No.

It all depends on the particular program. Eligibility for various
programs may depend on being at some percentage of that figure (above
or below). Some programs use a percentage of median income for your
area. Different programs may well have different requirements.

Other numbers may be involved, such as your age, the dollar value of
any assets you own (house, car, bank account, IRA), etc.

Programs may include such things as food aid, subsidized housing,
medical assistance, and the like. But there isn't any one rule that
applies everywhere.

Dave

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

James wrote:

> If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do?

Realise that many can live quite well on what is allegedly the poverty line.

> Are you supposed to be able to afford a certain size
> apartment with heat, eat healthy, and dress warmly?

Varys with where you 'live'

> Or is it just a number that qualifies you for welfare?

Nope, it isnt even that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How any dogma is fatal to its host...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d155ce5121b30773?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 9:40 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 21, 2:02 pm, MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 1:47 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I will not mention nor elaborate on any specific examples out of
> > respect for Life generally and the individuals involved.
>
> > The mechanism are that unrecognized bogus notions, just as lies do,
> > produce cognitive dissonance between actuality across all levels of
> > existence, the seen, unseen..and even the yet to be discovered... and
> > the bogus notions, and various often vicious dogma. why?
>
> > duhhh... congnitive dissonance fragmants a persons entirety.. his or
> > her brain and spirit goes into internal conflict.. turmoil. it IS
> > fatal.. It is not just uncomfortable, it is fatal by well known and
> > studied mechanisms.
>
> > bogus notions are bogus... the world is enterly chock full of them...
> > wide ranges of pervasive bogus notions affection virtually all of
> > us... Various political, economic and social bogus notions... wide
> > swaths of what we call education, many that cause us to work
> > ourselves to death or that ruin the joy of life (causing the body to
> > generate self destructive chemistry... causing a wide range of
> > disease with stress recognized as causative factors. ).
>
> > ***
> > Cults
> > I am going to surprise a few people here.
>
> > Cults might be a net benefit in some aspects, especially as they
> > present an altenative bogus 'truth' that exposes larger cultural
> > insanity. To that extent a cult, or even a criminal cult affords
> > relief from wide ranges of any cultures bogus notions and their
> > destructive effects.
>
> > The more radical and insane the cult the greater it diverges from the
> > ambient mess.. the more beneficial such cult is in that specific
> > function.
>
> > ***
>
> > However to be effective in this way it must also be extreme... it
> > must present a sure fire dogma.. maximizing the congnitive dissonance,
> > it cannot be as hubbard said mamby pamby.. it must be hard core and
> > certain. in its error it creates utter ruin. ...
>
> > as we have seen with Scientology, no shortage of those dying young..
> > many by suicide as a result... the ultimate in cognitive dissonance...
> > and in the end destroying itself. Bogus notions produce self
> > destructive behaviors... this is also widely documented and a well
> > known side effects among any cults members.
>
> > **
> > a sure fire solution... dont believe anything, take a skeptical but
> > not negative view of all that you understand as factual, most
> > especially that which you hold the dearest... and especially that
> > which you are prepaired to defend.
>
> > waste all of that and you will be free of the cultural and other
> > dogma.
>
> > With that freedom, the actuality of existence simply ... errr
> > exists. Noticing such actuality is quite a relief.
>
> > Phil scott
>
> "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being
> very wasteful. How true that is."
> Dan Quale- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I typed that on my boat in the dark... hows that for an excuse

here is a corrected version

I will not mention nor elaborate on any specific examples out of
respect for Life generally , and the individuals involved.

The mechanism are that unrecognized bogus notions such as lies,
produce cognitive dissonance between actuality and the bogus
notion….

It does this across all levels of existence, the seen, unseen..and
even the yet to be discovered..

various often vicious dogma, education, support of a bogus burocracy
or aspect of govt.... and many religions included.

why?

congnitive dissonance fragments a persons entirety..
his or her brain and spirit goes into internal conflict.. turmoil.

it IS fatal.. It is not just uncomfortable,
it is fatal by well known and studied mechanisms.

Such a person finds relief only cleaving ever more tightly to his
destructive notions...it spins if fast from there.

bogus notions are bogus...

the world is entirerly chock full of bogus notions, ... wide ranges of
pervasive bogus notions affecting virtually all of us...

Various political, economic and social notions... wide swaths of what
we call education, many such idea's that cause us to work ourselves
to death, or ruin the joy of life

(causing the body to generate self destructive chemistry... causing a
wide range of disease are long since recognized as causative
factors. ).

***
Cults
I am going to surprise a few people here.

Cults might be a net benefit in some aspects, especially as they
present an alternative bogus 'truth' that exposes larger cultural
insanity.

To that extent a cult, or even a criminal cult, or terminally corrupt
and collapsing government affords relief.

This is seen extensively in the burocracy of any failing corporation
or nation… these drive that failure. In the end these people
become entirely vicious, and arrogantly self destruct.

The more radical and insane the cult is, the greater it diverges from
the ambient mess.. the more beneficial such cult is in that specific
function… as it creates yet a greater net ruin.

This goes on until the entire host nation collapses.

***

However to be effective in this way such cult, cabal or burocracy must
also be extreme...
it must present a sure fire dogma.. maximizing the congnitive
dissonance,

it must be hard core and certain. .. like that vicious lying doper
Rush Limbaugh for instance/ (that is not to justify the counterpart
parties, likewise half nuts in their own way)

in its error it creates utter ruin. ... arrogantly, with great force.
I ruins all it touches, including itself… and its nasty as hell, it
thinks nothing of lying or even outright murder.

as we have seen with Scientology and a wide range of other cults from
the Third Reich to those folks with the cool-aid…., no shortage of
those dying young.. many by suicide as a result... the ultimate in
cognitive dissonance... we have maimed tens of thousands of our own
and murdered hundreds of thousands of men women and children In Iraq
while at the same time bankrupting ourselves.

thats insanity of course... self assured insanity... that kind ruins
its self fast.

Bogus notions produce self destructive behaviors...

this is also widely documented and a well known side effects among any
corrupt government or cults members. These forcefully defend
destructive insanity. And by that means become themselves
destructively insane. There are a few examples on this NG.

**
a sure fire solution... don't believe anything, take a skeptical but
not negative view of all that you understand as factual, most
especially that which you hold the dearest... and especially that
which you are prepared to defend.

waste all of that, and you will be free of cultural and other dogma…
re-enabling your capability as an intelligent human being.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Designer Evisu Men's fashion jeans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/37feb8227ca7f3a9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 9:52 pm
From: greatwall_business@hotmail.com

Designer Evisu Men's fashion jeans

Please see it :
http://www.luxury-fashion.org/static/Apparels/Evisu-Men-Jeans-27.html
http://www.luxury-fashion.org/static/Apparels/Evisu-Men-Jeans-28.html
http://www.luxury-fashion.org/static/Apparels/Evisu-Men-Jeans-29.html

Our Designer Evisu Men's fashion jean are fine quality
And find more new fashion apparels please view :
http://www.luxury-fashion.org

Welcome check our other pages or feel free contact us.
You can find what do you want here!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Heat cost vs wind chill
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4473379b2f5ac5b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:10 pm
From: Petepenguin@webtv.net (P T)

James wrote

>Does wind chill mean any thing when
>it comes to heat bill? Since the wind
>is not on you but on the house, does
>it take more heat to keep warm?

Your furnace produces heat.
Since your home does not get hotter and hotter, the heat the furnace
produces must be lost to the surrounding environment.
If the heat is lost faster rather than slower, the furnace must produce
heat faster, which must result in a higher bill.

Does a wind cause the house to lose heat faster? Does blowing on hot
soup or coffee cool it down faster?

QED

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving Money on Calendars
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9b326729403ee2be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:32 pm
From: Petepenguin@webtv.net (P T)

Apparently many of you feel it is adequate to use a calendar that is 7
or 12 or ? years old and simply ignore the year printed on the calendar.

I carry it one step further. I use whatever calendar is handy. Every
month I open it to whatever month agrees with the days and dates of the
current month, and I ignore the month and the year printed on the
calendar. Sometimes I am off by a day at the end of the month, the 30
versus 31 problem, but that is seldom a big issue.

My lifestyle is simple enough that I seldom need to consult a calendar
to plan something beyond next week. If you are constantly making
appointments weeks in advance, I suppose my system might be inadequate
for you.

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Companies closing down without telling their employees
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e9ad2a790d1b3e5a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 11:26 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

On Dec 21, 11:24 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 8:37 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> >http://consumerist.com/5113170/three-tgifridays-mysteriously-close-no...

How does the Orthodox Capitalists feel about companies closing down
without telling their employees?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 12:15 am
From: "zzbunker@netscape.net"

On Dec 22, 2:26 am, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 11:24 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 8:37 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> > >http://consumerist.com/5113170/three-tgifridays-mysteriously-close-no...
>
> How does the Orthodox Capitalists feel about companies closing down
> without telling their employees?

They wouldn't care in the least.
Which is why the post Neanderthal people even invented the GPS,
Drones,
Cruise Missiles, and computers that don't spontaneously whistle
things
about "There's Always Tommorow".

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 2:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

ultimauw@gmail.com wrote
> ultimauw@gmail.com wrote
>> ultimauw@gmail.com wrote

You'll end up completely blind if you dont watch out, child.

>>> http://consumerist.com/5113170/three-tgifridays-mysteriously-close-no...

> How does the Orthodox Capitalists feel about companies closing down without telling their employees?

Same way Roman Catholic Capitalists feel, presumably.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 3:59 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Dec 22, 1:26 am, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 11:24 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 8:37 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> > >http://consumerist.com/5113170/three-tgifridays-mysteriously-close-no...
>
> How does the Orthodox Capitalists feel about companies closing down
> without telling their employees?

They only care if they are "The Employee".

TMT

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:38 am
From: AndyS

Evelyn Leeper wrote:
> Same here. They are the most consistent in pricing, and usually have
> the best selection. (Which is not to say that there won't be some items
> one can find at other dollar stores that they don't carry.)

Andy writes:

Same here in Corsicana, Texas ......

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 3:49 pm
From: Marsha

The Real Bev wrote:
> The 99-Cents-Only Stores have recently jacked their price up to 99.9
> cents. Shocking, I tell you, the government ought to do something about
> it.
>
> That's the maximum price. Some stuff, mostly food, is less than that,
> and they've recently expanded their food offerings. I love these stores.
>
> http://www.99only.com/about/index.htm
>

It's funny that a picture of the 99 cent store sold for over 3 million.

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: self-employed, the price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 5:15 am
From: Jim

Neon John wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
> > clams_casino wrote:
> >> Jim wrote:
> >>
> >>>"SE tax rate. The self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists
> >>>of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability
> >>>insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance)."
> >>
> >> But the total rate is 7.6% (after tax income) higher than a regular (non
> >> self employed) worker.
> >
> >That's probably irrelevant -- the employer just works it, along with
> >other payroll taxes, into its salary structure.
>
> Of course we do. So many dollars is budgeted for each employee. The crap
> that the government requires is simply subtracted from that amount to arrive
> at what the employee actually gets paid. In the case of minimum wage workers,
> an increase in government-mandated cost simply prompts us employers to figure
> out how to eliminate jobs.
>
> The last minimum wage increase caused me to do that in my restaurant. I knew
> my staffing was fat but the place was making money, I liked the employees and
> I'm a charter member of Procrastinator's Anonymous. When the increase took
> effect, it kick-started me into looking at my labor costs and what jobs each
> employee was performing. I quickly determined that I could eliminate 2 min
> wage jobs by distributing their workload across the other staff.
>
> Bottom line: 2 pink slips and everyone else had to work a bit harder.
>
> An interesting calculation is to take the bottom line dollar amount from your
> check and divide it by the hours worked to see what you're REALLY making. Most
> folks are shocked when they do that.

speaking of shocked, who really benefits from a minimum wage
increase? is it the minimum wage worker taking home 8 or 10
dollars more each week? or is it the vile corrupt yankee
govern-0-mites collecting millions more each week in payroll
taxes?

>
> In one of the business magazines I read an article a few years ago reporting
> on a survey of the public. Only slightly over 50% of the citizens (I use that
> term loosely) understood that the money flowing from Washington actually came
> from the taxes they pay. I was flabbergasted. How could anyone become an
> adult and not know that government spending == taxation? No doubt these same
> folks think that the money for their wages comes from a money tree somewhere.

they are a simple people and as such they need to be governed,
lied to, stolen from and cheated by a class who considers
themselves worthy of and up to the task.
http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1342446.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 5:52 am
From: George

Neon John wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:39:55 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> Jim wrote:
>>>
>>>> "SE tax rate. The self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists
>>>> of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability
>>>> insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance)."
>>> But the total rate is 7.6% (after tax income) higher than a regular (non
>>> self employed) worker.
>> That's probably irrelevant -- the employer just works it, along with
>> other payroll taxes, into its salary structure.
>
> Of course we do. So many dollars is budgeted for each employee. The crap
> that the government requires is simply subtracted from that amount to arrive
> at what the employee actually gets paid. In the case of minimum wage workers,
> an increase in government-mandated cost simply prompts us employers to figure
> out how to eliminate jobs.
>
> The last minimum wage increase caused me to do that in my restaurant. I knew
> my staffing was fat but the place was making money, I liked the employees and
> I'm a charter member of Procrastinator's Anonymous. When the increase took
> effect, it kick-started me into looking at my labor costs and what jobs each
> employee was performing. I quickly determined that I could eliminate 2 min
> wage jobs by distributing their workload across the other staff.
>
> Bottom line: 2 pink slips and everyone else had to work a bit harder.
>
> An interesting calculation is to take the bottom line dollar amount from your
> check and divide it by the hours worked to see what you're REALLY making. Most
> folks are shocked when they do that.
>
> In one of the business magazines I read an article a few years ago reporting
> on a survey of the public. Only slightly over 50% of the citizens (I use that
> term loosely) understood that the money flowing from Washington actually came
> from the taxes they pay. I was flabbergasted. How could anyone become an
> adult and not know that government spending == taxation? No doubt these same
> folks think that the money for their wages comes from a money tree somewhere.

One of the best educational methods for that lack of knowledge would be
to simply pay everyone exactly what they earn with no deductions. That
would instantly eliminate people looking at the net and thinking "I earn
xxx (the net amount)". Then the next part would be to require everyone
to pay their own taxes as self employed folks currently do or completely
eliminate the income tax and go to a sales tax with say a 35% rate to
collect equivalent tax funds.

>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> There is much pleasure in useless knowledge. —Bertrand Russell
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surge protectors melting down and causing fires
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9da9f3133ea46935?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:08 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

ultim...@live.com wrote:
> http://www.nmsu.edu/%7Esafety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm

I've had it happen to me a couple times, without the fire. The last
one was probably my fault for overloading it on a long term basis. It
melted in place. What people don't realize is that a fuse or circuit
breaker will not protect against a fire. You can develop arcing with
sun-like temperatures that don't require heavy loads to support and
therefore don't trigger a break. The new arc-fault protectors are
helpful in those cases. It's a good idea to put your hand on equipment
and connections occasionally to check for heat. There is usually
overheating for a long time before major failure.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gov't to big 3 seeking bailout: no more private jets for you!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b69b9f5b3b347b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:14 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 20, 6:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> HAHA!

They can still pamper themselves in many remaining ways though.
Wagoner was just on my local radio telling about how they all worked
together to come to an agreement and make things work. The statement
that rankled me was, "We can still find ways to squeak out costs on
items our customers don't really need." In other words, GM can find a
way to give the customers less value for the money.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:18 am
From: Liberal Whisperer

On Dec 21, 10:27 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 4:36 pm, Liberal Whisperer <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20, 5:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> > >http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> > > HAHA!
>
> > Does that mean Madame Pelosi and Dr.Gore will give theirs up too??
>
> How about Bu$h and his friends?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:21 am
From: Liberal Whisperer

On Dec 22, 8:14 am, MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 6:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> >http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> > HAHA!
>
> They can still pamper themselves in many remaining ways though.
> Wagoner was just on my local radio telling about how they all worked
> together to come to an agreement and make things work. The statement
> that rankled me was, "We can still find ways to squeak out costs on
> items our customers don't really need." In other words, GM can find a
> way to give the customers less value for the money.

The REAL problem is the demorats don't want to "bail-out" the BIG
THREE . They want to bail out BIG UNION and then be able to dictate
what kind of cars the BIG THREE will build,I.O.W's little shitbox eco-
cars that nobody wants. Look out Yugo,here we come !!

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 3:42 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Liberal Whisperer" <hoofhearted07@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d52f8b9e-48ca-4e67-ac20-6243094a8e44@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 21, 10:27 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> On Dec 20, 4:36 pm, Liberal Whisperer <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20, 5:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> > >http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> > > HAHA!
>
> > Does that mean Madame Pelosi and Dr.Gore will give theirs up too??
>
> How about Bu$h and his friends?

Bush is a lame duck. Pelosi and her freinds are promising HOPE and
CHANGE !! Does that mean the Kyoto loving left will continue to live
the life of luxury and abundance but the commoners can just eat cake??
YOU BET...................
http://mrssatan.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-takes-767-to-hawaii.html

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:25 am
From: val189

On Dec 15, 3:19 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You could also "make" a calendar with those slots to slide the dates
> into and never have to buy another calendar again?
>
> http://www.craftefamily.com/craft/perpetual_calendar.asp

Those are a pain. When do you make the change? At midnight on the
last day?
Also useless for a glance forward or prior to the current month. I've
never know anyone who kept them current.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 9:27 am
From: LC18BR38@webtv.net (Rick V)

The Real Bev wrote

>You misunderstand.

No, I understood exactly what you wrote and implied.

>Forwarded was fine. Letters were sent to her
> at her address and the post office applied
> 'forward to' yellow stickers with MY address.

Which is what you authorized them to do.

>But after the forwarding expired the letters
> started coming directly to her name at my
> address.

The charities, along with all other senders received the new addrees
when you submitted the change of address. The post office did not
forward the mail on their own. You instructed them to do that.

>Neither of us ever gave anybody that
> combination, so it must have been the post
> office.

Yes, you did.

When you submitted the forwarding change of address, you authorized all
mai from the previous address to be sent to your house.

Be it forwarded from the previous address or addressed directly to the
new address. The senders received the forwarding address after 12 months
or if they requested (same as you did when submitting the change of
address form) the mail be returned to them if undeliverable at the
previous address.

>Makes sense that they'd do it -- it keeps the
> postage flowing.

Yes, it is a business but they did not give your address out. You
authorized that.

>I wrote DECEASED on the ones that
> appeared to be first class so that they would
> be returned to the sender who ought to take
> the next step.

One action that you could have taken.
Obviously, the senders ignored your request unlike the post office which
followed your request.

>Apparently it's cheaper to just keep sending
> the letters than fix the mailing list, although
> they had to make some changes when the
> post office gave (or sold) them the new
> address.

Again, you keep blaming the post office for your instructions telling
them to do exactly what they did and for free.

You write that the post office sold the new address which is wrong but
the mail that was sent to your mom's address with postage on it was then
handled and forwarded to your address, per your request, with no
additional postage paid by either the sender or you who
requested the mail be delivered to your address.

>That's as much trouble as I'm willing to go to.
Obviously.

> If they want to spend other people's money
> sending me crap, that's their problem.
The senders "wasting" donated money on more mailings is more than their
problem.

>Theory has it that bulk mail is GOOD because
> it supports first class mail, so I guess I'm
> doing my bit for the good of society.
(pat on the back and applause)

>I open the one that I know contains a stamped
> envelope and toss the rest into the recycle
> bin.

So you are benefitting by getting free stamps and still complaining.

>You're right, it's easier to criticize than actually
> fix the problem. BUT you forget that it's
> THEIR problem, not mine.

See above sentence.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 11:18 am
From: "'nam vet."

In article
<fc6408c3-f46a-4e67-bced-300064d56a9e@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
val189 <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> On Dec 15, 3:19 pm, Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > You could also "make" a calendar with those slots to slide the dates
> > into and never have to buy another calendar again?
> >
> > http://www.craftefamily.com/craft/perpetual calendar.asp
>
> Those are a pain. When do you make the change? At midnight on the
> last day?
> Also useless for a glance forward or prior to the current month. I've
> never know anyone who kept them current.

for me , calendars must be up to date on things like the phases of the
moon and holidaze.
I glue hardware store freebees over the more "artful" old calendars.
works for me.
Happy New Year.
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:36 am
From: val189

Good thread!!

More for convenience and to lessen run outs, I'm buying the powdered
dry milk for cooking, making yogurt etc. I buy the fluid milk only
for drinking it straight. I've cut way back on trips to the market.
I make it up a quart at a time in a glass Mason jar.

I put a few more bill payments on automatic. Saves postage.

I let the power company turn off my water heater and a/c at their
will.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 3:48 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Evelyn Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:494bf29a$0$4907$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>> Did that with no upfront charge because my Nokia N95 cellphone
>> has voip built in and I make the calls over wifi to my DSL.
As a group senior citizens invented the computer............
>
> Just try telling that to someone over sixty years old and see the look on
> their faces.
>
> (Okay, not everyone in that age range. But when I picture my father
> trying to make sense of that sentence, my mind boggles.)
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 1:00 pm
From: James

Does wind chill mean any thing when it comes to heat bill? Since the
wind is not on you but on the house, does it take more heat to keep
warm?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 2:02 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

James wrote:

> Does wind chill mean any thing when it comes to heat bill?

Nope, its primarily an effect with human bodys, and unless your house
is very badly maintained indeed, there shouldnt be any real wind inside it.

Wind does however make a big difference to the leakage
with a badly sealed house. Thats not wind chill tho.

> Since the wind is not on you but on the house, does it take more heat to keep warm?

Only in the sense that if the house isnt sealed properly, more of the hot air leaks out when its windy.

Thats not wind chill tho, thats just leakage.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 2:28 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:00:32 -0800 (PST), James
<j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Does wind chill mean any thing when it comes to heat bill? Since the
>wind is not on you but on the house, does it take more heat to keep
>warm?

Wind chill is a term reserved mostly for TV weathermen and those
whose interests are the study of cold weather survival and injuries.
It applies to human skin.
So as soon as you use the term for anything else the pedants will jump
on you.
But if you just call it heat transfer, the answer is yes.
Wind will cool your house faster than no wind in the winter.
And a hot wind will warm your house faster than no wind.
Air/fluid movement across the thermal interface increases heat
transfer. On a house that's windows, bricks, doors, etc.
Internal heat is always flowing toward outer cold to escape
A common and easily seen example of this is parking your car outside
at 0F with the radiator facing into the wind versus putting it in the
0F garage.
There is a big difference in how fast the car cools off.
You can look up heat transfer and thermal barriers if you're really
interested.
But when the wind blows, it blows.

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 2:51 pm
From: George

James wrote:
> Does wind chill mean any thing when it comes to heat bill? Since the
> wind is not on you but on the house, does it take more heat to keep
> warm?

Yes, same effect. Wind chill simply refers to the concept that as wind
increases the boundary layer on a heated object is diminished and heat
is removed faster because that layer acts as extra insulation.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 1:29 pm
From: july1y@yahoo.com

I have been using HSBC "2% reward card" (Master Card, see link
http://www.hsbccreditcard.com/ecare/cards?docId=Cards_Tab_data_cards_hs_p4_xml
) for about a year. This card is supposed to give me 2% rebate on all
weekend purchases (based on Transaction Date as defined in the
Agreement). However, recently I did an audit on my past year
statements and found I received only 1% in ALL of my weekend
purchases. I then call HSBC card customer rep, and they did not give
me a clear answer. I then contacted the HSBS management and complained
the issue with BBB (July 2008). Only then did I receive an official
letter from the HSBC, admitting the error. The mistake was system wide
and every card member received only 1% rebate on the weekend
purchases. They promised me to fix the problem, but three months later
when I called the rep again, still no solution. As of today
(12/22/2008), I still get 1% reward only. I never receive the other
missing 1% as originally promised in the card Agreement.

Since everyone is affected, why is there no such related complaint in
the Internet? If you have HSBC 2% reward card, have you done an audit
on the reward calculations?

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 3:44 pm
From: Marsha

Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and
keep only liability coverage. I have a 2004 Malibu.

Thanks.
Marsha/Ohio

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

Marsha wrote:

> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and
> keep only liability coverage. I have a 2004 Malibu.

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 18 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 6:06 pm
From: "Daniel T."

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have done
> this year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets and
> such.
>
> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over
> and over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started
> reusing the bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even
> plastic cereal bags from inside the boxes). So now we reuse our
> bread wrappers, and I've cut down on the purchase of sandwich bags
> by about 20%. It feels good to reuse something we were formerly
> throwing away without thinking about it, too.
>
> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have our
> laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the
> laptop plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer.
> We also have a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a
> bit of energy all the time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use
> once in a great while. I put all of these on the power strip, and
> now I switch it all off at night. No more power draw on the electric
> bill for a whole weekend if we are away.
>
> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?

We put up a cloths line and stopped using the dryer.

We started car pooling to work and now turn off our cars at stop lights.

My wife carries her bike on the back of the car now, so she can park
where it's free and bike the rest of the way to work. (The car pooling
works by her driving me to work, which is between home and her work.)

Those of the family going to college started checking out their books
from the library instead of buying them.

Lastly, we planed a "recycle christmas" all presents purchased had to be
used (thrift store stuff for example.)

--
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Locksmith spammer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e87efe27cfcdf066?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 6:28 pm
From: larry

John A. Weeks III wrote:
> In article
> <a9fb6909-d125-44c8-9d87-9ps.com>,
> linkswanted <movier4u.cm> wrote:
>> Locksith Secuty Services, Los Aes Safe & Vault Sales and
>> Installan For All Your Home & Busess Needs Dos instion
>> wood, metal, Kalamein, and fe rated wood doors for bh heavyweight
>> commcial and stanrd residential needs.
>
> Great...I locked my keys in my car here in Minneapolis. How
> soon can you get here to open my car?
>
> -john-
>

Maybe a few of us should post these spammers numbers in
public restrooms, with better offers... ;-)

(there are 3.6 million hits for that 800 number)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 7:51 pm
From: Dave Garland

larry wrote:

> Maybe a few of us should post these spammers numbers in public
> restrooms, with better offers... ;-)

If you call from a pay phone, it costs them quite a bit extra. Not
that I'm recommending writing "Lockouts, call 877-364-5264" on the
wall behind the bar's pay phone, mind you.

Dave

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 6:38 pm
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <0q-dnV5DSMzT59DUnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@posted.visi>,
belfert@visi.com (Brian Elfert) says...
> Larry Caldwell <firstnamelastinitial@peaksky.com> writes:
>
> >7.5%. And of course, the self-employed have access to hundreds of tax
> >breaks not available to wage earner. Anything sheltered by the business
> >is not taxable at all. The tax code is written to give businesses a
> >free ride.
>
> Hmm, I must have missed that free ride when I ran a business. I paid
> taxes just like any other American.
>
> Now, A LOT of small business owners cheat on their taxes. The biggest
> thing I see is personal use of business vehicles. You're supposed to note
> the percentage the vehicle is used personally and not deduct that portion,
> but a lot just use the vehicle for personal too and deduct everything.
>
> A lot of small business owners will pay personal expenses through the
> business to get the deduction. Big things like non-business computers and
> personal insurance along with lots of small things like postage and office
> supplies for personal use.

One break that self-employed get that wage earners don't is commuting
expenses. Even if you don't use your vehicle for hauling, you can write
off every trip to the office supply store, and every work related trip.
My commuting expenses are at least 80% of my total vehicle costs, and
some months reach 90%. You can either take the standard $0.55 a mile
write-off, or go the actual cost and depreciation route, take your pick.

If you are incorporated, you can rent a room in your house to the
corporation as office space. The rent is income, but not earned income,
so you don't have to pay FICA on it. You can write off telephone
expenses. You can write off business meeting expenses. You can write
off office supplies, including a computer an internet connection, web
site, advertising, and technical support.

That crap about cheating on taxes is just crap. When you are in
business for yourself, it is your life. It consumes most of your waking
hours, and almost everything you do is work related. If you can squeeze
out 10% in profit you are doing good. Everything else goes back into
the business.

I haven't even scratched the surface of all the tax advantages available
to a business owner. The first employee any business should hire is a
good bookkeeper. Both you and the bookkeeper should have regular
meetings with your accountant to make sure you are not missing
legitimate business expenses. It's hard enough being self employed
without paying 10x as much income tax as you should. The biggest
problem with small businesses is that they don't know how to keep
records, so they end up screwing themselves.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:39 pm
From: The Real Bev

clams_casino wrote:

> Jim wrote:
>
>>"SE tax rate. The self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists
>>of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability
>>insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance)."
>
> But the total rate is 7.6% (after tax income) higher than a regular (non
> self employed) worker.

That's probably irrelevant -- the employer just works it, along with
other payroll taxes, into its salary structure.

--
Cheers,
Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The fact that windows is one of the most popular ways to
operate a computer means that evolution has made a general
fuckup and our race is doomed." -- Anon.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 11:06 pm
From: Neon John

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:39:55 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:

>clams_casino wrote:
>
>> Jim wrote:
>>
>>>"SE tax rate. The self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists
>>>of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability
>>>insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance)."
>>
>> But the total rate is 7.6% (after tax income) higher than a regular (non
>> self employed) worker.
>
>That's probably irrelevant -- the employer just works it, along with
>other payroll taxes, into its salary structure.

Of course we do. So many dollars is budgeted for each employee. The crap
that the government requires is simply subtracted from that amount to arrive
at what the employee actually gets paid. In the case of minimum wage workers,
an increase in government-mandated cost simply prompts us employers to figure
out how to eliminate jobs.

The last minimum wage increase caused me to do that in my restaurant. I knew
my staffing was fat but the place was making money, I liked the employees and
I'm a charter member of Procrastinator's Anonymous. When the increase took
effect, it kick-started me into looking at my labor costs and what jobs each
employee was performing. I quickly determined that I could eliminate 2 min
wage jobs by distributing their workload across the other staff.

Bottom line: 2 pink slips and everyone else had to work a bit harder.

An interesting calculation is to take the bottom line dollar amount from your
check and divide it by the hours worked to see what you're REALLY making. Most
folks are shocked when they do that.

In one of the business magazines I read an article a few years ago reporting
on a survey of the public. Only slightly over 50% of the citizens (I use that
term loosely) understood that the money flowing from Washington actually came
from the taxes they pay. I was flabbergasted. How could anyone become an
adult and not know that government spending == taxation? No doubt these same
folks think that the money for their wages comes from a money tree somewhere.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
There is much pleasure in useless knowledge. —Bertrand Russell

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 7:45 pm
From: The Real Bev

Macuser wrote:

> Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL items
> for this amount? There are several near me, and all of them are trying to
> pry more out of the customers by raising prices about that threshold.
> Certain items, like cheap little power strips have doubled in price. I buy
> less now than ever. How about you?

The 99-Cents-Only Stores have recently jacked their price up to 99.9
cents. Shocking, I tell you, the government ought to do something about it.

That's the maximum price. Some stuff, mostly food, is less than that,
and they've recently expanded their food offerings. I love these stores.

http://www.99only.com/about/index.htm

--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you see me running, try to keep up."
...Back of bomb technician's shirt

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:20 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com

On Dec 21, 2:23 pm, "Macuser" <spamisalunch...@meat.com> wrote:
> Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL items
> for this amount? There are several near me, and all of them are trying to
> pry more out of the customers by raising prices about that threshold.
> Certain items, like cheap little power strips have doubled in price. I buy
> less now than ever. How about you?
>

99 cent power strips?! ick! I for one would not want to use those fire
hazards let alone leave them plugged in unattended. Same with the
lights they sell.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:44 pm
From: The Real Bev

ultimauw@live.com wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2:23 pm, "Macuser" <spamisalunch...@meat.com> wrote:
>> Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL items
>> for this amount? There are several near me, and all of them are trying to
>> pry more out of the customers by raising prices about that threshold.
>> Certain items, like cheap little power strips have doubled in price. I buy
>> less now than ever. How about you?
>
> 99 cent power strips?! ick! I for one would not want to use those fire
> hazards let alone leave them plugged in unattended. Same with the
> lights they sell.

So what do you think of their condoms and pregnancy tests?

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 7:44 pm
From: LC18BR38@webtv.net (Rick V)

The Real Bev wrote...

>Along with untold thousands of begging letters
> from the charities the first one sold your name
> to. When the "forward" on my mom's mail
> expired, the post office kindly told all the
> charities the address to which her mail had
> been forwarded, so now I receive all the
> begging letters for her at MY address.

When the forward on ALL your mom's mail expired, your address was
included on ALL of the return mail and not just the mail from charities.

If you did not want ALL of your mom's mail, you need not submit a change
of address but you choose to do so.

You could have personally contacted the senders whose mail you did want
forwarded but it is much easier to criticize than to do the actual work.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:55 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rick V wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote...
>
>> Along with untold thousands of begging letters
>> from the charities the first one sold your name
>> to. When the "forward" on my mom's mail
>> expired, the post office kindly told all the
>> charities the address to which her mail had
>> been forwarded, so now I receive all the
>> begging letters for her at MY address.
>
> When the forward on ALL your mom's mail expired, your address was
> included on ALL of the return mail and not just the mail from charities.
>
> If you did not want ALL of your mom's mail, you need not submit a change
> of address but you choose to do so.

You misunderstand.

Forwarded was fine. Letters were sent to her at her address and the
post office applied 'forward to' yellow stickers with MY address. But
after the forwarding expired the letters started coming directly to her
name at my address. Neither of us ever gave anybody that combination,
so it must have been the post office. Makes sense that they'd do it --
it keeps the postage flowing.

> You could have personally contacted the senders whose mail you did want
> forwarded but it is much easier to criticize than to do the actual work.

I wrote DECEASED on the ones that appeared to be first class so that
they would be returned to the sender who ought to take the next step.
Apparently it's cheaper to just keep sending the letters than fix the
mailing list, although they had to make some changes when the post
office gave (or sold) them the new address.

That's as much trouble as I'm willing to go to. If they want to spend
other people's money sending me crap, that's their problem. Theory has
it that bulk mail is GOOD because it supports first class mail, so I
guess I'm doing my bit for the good of society. I open the one that I
know contains a stamped envelope and toss the rest into the recycle bin.

You're right, it's easier to criticize than actually fix the problem.
BUT you forget that it's THEIR problem, not mine.

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The fact that windows is one of the most popular ways to
operate a computer means that evolution has made a general
fuckup and our race is doomed." -- Anon.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:25 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com

http://www.nmsu.edu/%7Esafety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:25 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com

http://www.nmsu.edu/%7Esafety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surge protector=fire hazard?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ce2a4303bca9f839?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:27 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com

http://www.nmsu.edu/%7Esafety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 8:27 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com

On Dec 20, 4:36 pm, Liberal Whisperer <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 20, 5:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> >http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> > HAHA!
>
> Does that mean Madame Pelosi and Dr.Gore will give theirs up too??

How about Bu$h and his friends?

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 11:24 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

On Dec 21, 8:37 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/5113170/three-tgifridays-mysteriously-close-no...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 11:26 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

On Dec 21, 11:24 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 8:37 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
>
> >http://consumerist.com/5113170/three-tgifridays-mysteriously-close-no...

How does the Orthodox Capitalists feel about companies closing down
without telling their employees?

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Monday, December 22, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 18 new messages in 10 topics - digest