Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics

Monday, December 22, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Collision insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2850cf9d787416a8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

Marsha wrote:

> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and
> keep only liability coverage. I have a 2004 Malibu.

Compare the cost of the premium with the maximum the insurance company
will pay if your car is totaled -- which means that even if the car is
driveable the cost of repair exceeds its value -- according to the
insurance company. It's up to you to decide.

--
Cheers, Bev
==============================================================
"I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns and
women join the unqualified men in running our government"
-- Cissy Farenthold

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:09 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
> only liability coverage.

That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
know most of this data.

Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:

1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?

If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.

2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)

If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:33 pm
From: James

On Dec 22, 7:09 pm, "SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote:
> "Marsha" <m...@xeb.net> wrote in messagenews:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
> > Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
> > only liability coverage.
>
> That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
> the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
> know most of this data.
>
> Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:
>
> 1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
> a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
> stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.
>
> 2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
> enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.

I dropped the collision but kept the comp. Good thing because I've
since collected 3 times on the comp. Once a deer hit me, and 2 glass
breakage due to vandalism. I've also had lots of collisions but I
figure I pay for it either way. If I had the insurance they jack up
my premiums for 3 years.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:47 pm
From: Marsha

SpammersDie wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
>> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
>> only liability coverage.
>
> That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
> the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
> know most of this data.
>
> Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:
>
> 1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
> a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
> stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.
>
>
> 2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
> enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.
>

Yes and Yes. I have another older car that does not have comp and
collision, and I could pay cash for another comparable car without undue
hardship. Just undecided whether to take that chance this early. The
insurance company is charging $125.00/yr for collision and $45.00 for
damage other than collision, but the car is still worth about $7,000.

Marsha/Ohio

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:49 pm
From: Marsha

The Real Bev wrote:
> Marsha wrote:
>
>> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and
>> keep only liability coverage. I have a 2004 Malibu.
>
> Compare the cost of the premium with the maximum the insurance company
> will pay if your car is totaled -- which means that even if the car is
> driveable the cost of repair exceeds its value -- according to the
> insurance company. It's up to you to decide.
>

My husband and I were just discussing this. It doesn't take much to
"total" a car anymore, at least in the insurance company's eye.

Marsha/Ohio

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:14 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 22, 4:09 pm, "SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote:
> "Marsha" <m...@xeb.net> wrote in messagenews:gip8pc$vmn$1@news.datemas.de...
> > Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep
> > only liability coverage.
>
> That's a function of your financial net worth, current and expected income,
> the role the vehicle plays in your life and the FMV of the vehicle. Only you
> know most of this data.
>
> Drop the collision when you can answer yes to at least one of these:
>
> 1. Is your financial picture solid enough that you could pay cash today for
> a comparable 2004 Malibu without enduring hardship?
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. You don't have a financial
> stability risk to insure here so why pay premiums.
>
> 2. Can that car vanish from your life today and not be replaced without you
> enduring hardship (e.g. it's the third car in a two-driver household?)
>
> If yes, dump the collision and comp. If car is destroyed, do without.

good advice imo

there is also the issue of who causes an accident. 40% involve drunk
drivers, so if you dont get drunk, nor drive around a lot in night
time traffic then the odds of you getting in an accident are much less
than the averages, making your primary risk one of being hit by an
uninsured motorist.... additionally if you dont put many miles on a
car and have a driving history of very few accidents..then the premium
you pay for comprehensive may be over priced.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 11:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Marsha wrote:

> Looking for opinions of when to drop insurance coverage on a car and keep only liability coverage.

Varys with what your assets are like, and whether you
must have a viable car to keep your job, and whether
you are likely to cause the damage yourself etc.

Clearly if you have considerable assets, its just a nuisance
even if it does get written off and that was your fault so you
wont be able to force anyone else to pay for the replacement.

> I have a 2004 Malibu.

Its not old enough to be an absolute that it isnt worth having collision cover.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .99 store complaint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/344e32ee920ae3a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:03 pm
From: The Real Bev

AndyS wrote:

> Evelyn Leeper wrote:
>> Same here. They are the most consistent in pricing, and usually have
>> the best selection. (Which is not to say that there won't be some items
>> one can find at other dollar stores that they don't carry.)
>
>
> Andy writes:
>
> Same here in Corsicana, Texas ......

Home of really expensive fruitcakes that really aren't all that good.

--
Cheers, Bev (who actually likes fruitcake)
==============================================================
"I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns and
women join the unqualified men in running our government"
-- Cissy Farenthold

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:32 pm
From: AndyS

The Real Bev wrote:

> Home of really expensive fruitcakes that really aren't all that good.
>

Andy commets:

Yeah, me too !!! I even like the one dollar fruit cake slices that
Walmart sells. I don't understand why people give fruit cake
a bad rap.....

Anyway, Collin Street Bakery seems to be expanding down
here, along with Russel Stover candies..... ...... right along with
the
waistline of middle America.....

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:51 pm
From: The Real Bev

AndyS wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Home of really expensive fruitcakes that really aren't all that good.
>
> Andy commets:
>
> Yeah, me too !!! I even like the one dollar fruit cake slices that
> Walmart sells. I don't understand why people give fruit cake
> a bad rap.....

Citron. Green bitter stuff. Cheap, of course.

Next time you're at the market, look at the cheap fruitcake fruit mix.
TURNIPS! CITRON!

My mom used to get rectangular fruitcakes containing nuts, pineapple and
cherries and enough cake to hold them together. Wonder where they came
from...

> Anyway, Collin Street Bakery seems to be expanding down
> here, along with Russel Stover candies..... ...... right along with
> the waistline of middle America.....

--
Cheers,
Bev
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
SAVE GAS, FART IN A JAR

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:33 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-2BFE46.21060721122008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have done
>> this year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets and
>> such.
>>
>> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over
>> and over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started
>> reusing the bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even
>> plastic cereal bags from inside the boxes). So now we reuse our
>> bread wrappers, and I've cut down on the purchase of sandwich bags
>> by about 20%. It feels good to reuse something we were formerly
>> throwing away without thinking about it, too.
>>
>> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have our
>> laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the
>> laptop plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer.
>> We also have a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a
>> bit of energy all the time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use
>> once in a great while. I put all of these on the power strip, and
>> now I switch it all off at night. No more power draw on the electric
>> bill for a whole weekend if we are away.
>>
>> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?
>
> We put up a cloths line and stopped using the dryer.
>
> We started car pooling to work and now turn off our cars at stop lights.
Starter motors ect arent cheap.......budget
.

>
> My wife carries her bike on the back of the car now, so she can park
> where it's free and bike the rest of the way to work. (The car pooling
> works by her driving me to work, which is between home and her work.)
>
> Those of the family going to college started checking out their books
> from the library instead of buying them.
>
> Lastly, we planed a "recycle christmas" all presents purchased had to be
> used (thrift store stuff for example.)
>
> --
> Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
> but when there is nothing left to take away.
> -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:00 pm
From: The Real Bev

Nicik Name wrote:

> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> We put up a cloths line and stopped using the dryer.
>>
>> We started car pooling to work and now turn off our cars at stop lights.

Isn't there some rule of thumb about how long you should idle and when
you should turn the engine off?

> Starter motors ect arent cheap.......budget

They're not that expensive either, especially if you put it in yourself.
I've done it, and better than the dealer who left out 1 of the 3 bolts
and left the other two loose.

And then there are people who downshift to slow down at stoplights --
hasn't it ever occurred to them that brake pads are WAY cheaper and
easier to replace than a clutch?

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================================
If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting
them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for
no good reason. - Jack Handy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HSBC only gives me 1% on 2% reward card
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5f426846387c1c7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:41 pm
From: James

On Dec 22, 4:29 pm, jul...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been using HSBC "2% reward card" (Master Card, see linkhttp://www.hsbccreditcard.com/ecare/cards?docId=Cards_Tab_data_cards_...
> ) for about a year. This card is supposed to give me 2% rebate on all
> weekend purchases (based on Transaction Date as defined in the
> Agreement). However, recently I did an audit on my past year
> statements and found I received only 1% in ALL of my weekend
> purchases. I then call HSBC card customer rep, and they did not give
> me a clear answer. I then contacted the HSBS management and complained
> the issue with BBB (July 2008). Only then did I receive an official
> letter from the HSBC, admitting the error. The mistake was system wide
> and every card member received only 1% rebate on the weekend
> purchases. They promised me to fix the problem, but three months later
> when I called the rep again, still no solution. As of today
> (12/22/2008), I still get 1% reward only. I never receive the other
> missing 1% as originally promised in the card Agreement.
>
> Since everyone is affected, why is there no such related complaint in
> the Internet? If you have HSBC 2% reward card, have you done an audit
> on the reward calculations?

My best deal is the Shell gas card. I suppose other oil card give the
same deal. 5% off on gasoline. Usually cheaper with the rebate than
no name gas. Of course if gas drops below a buck the no name gas
might come out cheaper.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:04 pm
From: The Real Bev

James wrote:

> On Dec 22, 4:29 pm, jul...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Since everyone is affected, why is there no such related complaint in
>> the Internet? If you have HSBC 2% reward card, have you done an audit
>> on the reward calculations?

Not easy to do. (1) A lot depends on how the merchant announces itself,
which you have no way of knowing; and (2) there is no breakdown given.
The website may offer more complete information, but still not enough.

I figure I have to trust them; anything else is a LOT of work for
little return.

> My best deal is the Shell gas card. I suppose other oil card give the
> same deal. 5% off on gasoline. Usually cheaper with the rebate than
> no name gas. Of course if gas drops below a buck the no name gas
> might come out cheaper.

Costco gas is almost always significantly cheaper than the cheapest gas
anywhere nearby AND you get a 3% rebate if you have the Costco-Amex
card, which is free. And they give you a better rebate breakdown than
the Visa/MC people do. Don't know about Discover, I've only used the
card twice since they started up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Many Uses of Baking Soda
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/670e2113209019eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:47 pm
From: Ablang

The Many Uses of Baking Soda

Baking soda is one of the most versatile cleaning agents on earth. It
is highly absorbent making it an excellent deodorizer. Best of all,
it's non-toxic. As a matter of fact, if the thought of your next
cleaning project gives you indigestion, half a teaspoon of baking soda
stirred into a glass of water works as well as some over-the-counter
drugs sold strictly for that purpose. Check with your doctor before
using this remedy.

With all of the cleaners that are available on the market today it's
hard to tell which one is best for a particular cleaning project. Some
general purpose cleaners contain detergents and-or bleach, others use
sodium carbonate and bleach, while others have an oxalic acid or
phosphoric acid base. The wide range of chemicals used in general
purpose cleaners makes reading the label a must, not only to prevent
damage to what's being cleaned, but for safety as well. Some cleaners
are poisonous and/or not biodegradable.

We suggest common household food products for cleaning because they
are inexpensive, readily available, safe, and work as well or better
than many off-the-shelf cleaners. In addition to baking soda, vinegar,
salt, food-grade citric acid, juice from a fresh lemon, ice cubes, and
mayonnaise, are food products that you can use for cleaning.

Vinegar and water is great for cleaning glazed tile and dark tile
grout as well. Food-grade citric acid is super for dissolving mineral
salt that builds up in water heater tanks. Lemon juice works well in
cleaning oil and grease from plastic laminated counters; a 50-50
solution of salt and vinegar makes a terrific copper cleaner; ice
cubes are the best first-step in getting wax crayon stains off kids
clothing; mayonnaise and a nylon scrubbing pad work wonders on white-
rings on wood furniture; and baking soda, which this week's column
concentrates on, should be renamed "baking, deodorizing, fire-
extinguishing and washing soda."

Baking soda will put out a grease fire, clean scorched food from
cookware, absorb odors from the refrigerator, clean and deodorize
drains, soften and deodorize laundry, and will also remove stains from
porcelain, enamelware, glass, plastic, carpets and rugs.

For burned-on food, mix up a paste of baking soda and water. Actually,
dry baking soda can be used in lieu of scouring cleanser and best of
all, it's non-abrasive.

Coffee pot stained? Tomato sauce remnants left in a plastic storage
container? A paste of baking soda and water will do the trick. Keep a
box of baking soda in the refrigerator to reduce odors. Once a week
pour a handful down the drain and rinse with hot water. Your drain
will stay clean and smell fresh.

Price of fabric softeners got you down? Use half a cup of baking soda
in the rinse cycle.

To remove stains from carpets and rugs follow this procedure: While
the stain is wet, use baking soda to absorb the excess. Then, cover
the stain that's left with another application of baking soda, let it
sit overnight and vacuum it the next day.

http://www.onthehouse.com/wp/20081203

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 4:57 pm
From: Marsha

Ablang wrote:
> The Many Uses of Baking Soda
>
> Baking soda is one of the most versatile cleaning agents on earth. It
> is highly absorbent making it an excellent deodorizer. Best of all,
> it's non-toxic. As a matter of fact, if the thought of your next
> cleaning project gives you indigestion, half a teaspoon of baking soda
> stirred into a glass of water works as well as some over-the-counter
> drugs sold strictly for that purpose. Check with your doctor before
> using this remedy.
>
> With all of the cleaners that are available on the market today it's
> hard to tell which one is best for a particular cleaning project. Some
> general purpose cleaners contain detergents and-or bleach, others use
> sodium carbonate and bleach, while others have an oxalic acid or
> phosphoric acid base. The wide range of chemicals used in general
> purpose cleaners makes reading the label a must, not only to prevent
> damage to what's being cleaned, but for safety as well. Some cleaners
> are poisonous and/or not biodegradable.
>
> We suggest common household food products for cleaning because they
> are inexpensive, readily available, safe, and work as well or better
> than many off-the-shelf cleaners. In addition to baking soda, vinegar,
> salt, food-grade citric acid, juice from a fresh lemon, ice cubes, and
> mayonnaise, are food products that you can use for cleaning.
>
> Vinegar and water is great for cleaning glazed tile and dark tile
> grout as well. Food-grade citric acid is super for dissolving mineral
> salt that builds up in water heater tanks. Lemon juice works well in
> cleaning oil and grease from plastic laminated counters; a 50-50
> solution of salt and vinegar makes a terrific copper cleaner; ice
> cubes are the best first-step in getting wax crayon stains off kids
> clothing; mayonnaise and a nylon scrubbing pad work wonders on white-
> rings on wood furniture; and baking soda, which this week's column
> concentrates on, should be renamed "baking, deodorizing, fire-
> extinguishing and washing soda."
>
> Baking soda will put out a grease fire, clean scorched food from
> cookware, absorb odors from the refrigerator, clean and deodorize
> drains, soften and deodorize laundry, and will also remove stains from
> porcelain, enamelware, glass, plastic, carpets and rugs.
>
> For burned-on food, mix up a paste of baking soda and water. Actually,
> dry baking soda can be used in lieu of scouring cleanser and best of
> all, it's non-abrasive.
>
> Coffee pot stained? Tomato sauce remnants left in a plastic storage
> container? A paste of baking soda and water will do the trick. Keep a
> box of baking soda in the refrigerator to reduce odors. Once a week
> pour a handful down the drain and rinse with hot water. Your drain
> will stay clean and smell fresh.
>
> Price of fabric softeners got you down? Use half a cup of baking soda
> in the rinse cycle.
>
> To remove stains from carpets and rugs follow this procedure: While
> the stain is wet, use baking soda to absorb the excess. Then, cover
> the stain that's left with another application of baking soda, let it
> sit overnight and vacuum it the next day.
>
> http://www.onthehouse.com/wp/20081203

I mix 1 c. baking soda, 2 c. white vinegar, and 2 c. water for fabric
softener. A paste works great for getting coffee or tea stains.

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maintenance of pressure cooker
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2ef109355c1f241d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 6:34 pm
From: Arumugham

Clean your pressure cooker thoroughly after each use by washing and
drying.
Avoid using abrasives or metal scouring pads.
Use soap and water with a plastic scouring pad for cleaning.
Store your pressure cooker with the lid slightly open.
Replace gasket at the first sign of cracking, flaking or tearing.
Ensure all handles and knobs are securely fastened before using
pressure cooker.
Tighten nuts or screws if required.

http://usefulcookingtips.blogspot.com/2008/12/care-and-maintenance-of-pressure-cooker.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: poverty line
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4eaa805a9a816468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 7:35 pm
From: James

If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do? Are
you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
you for welfare?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 8:11 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <b1487a77-2cf2-4430-8295-47d42ad1e00b@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>,
James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do? Are
>you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
>eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
>you for welfare?

It's a number that qualifies you to be a political football.

What you'd be able to afford while "at the poverty line" varies tremendously
depending on where you live. In New York, LA, or DC, you'd barely be able
to eat; forget about an apartment or wardrobe. In other areas, you'd have
no problem getting an apartment, affording food, and having decent clothes.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man"
General of the Army (four stars) Ann Dunwoody

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:25 pm
From: Dave Garland

James wrote:
> If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do?

Live in an "adequate" fashion.

There is no single number for that line, it will depend on where you
live, how expensive things are in your area, how many members are in
your household, etc.

> Are
> you supposed to be able to afford a certain size apartment with heat,
> eat healthy, and dress warmly? Or is it just a number that qualifies
> you for welfare?

No.

It all depends on the particular program. Eligibility for various
programs may depend on being at some percentage of that figure (above
or below). Some programs use a percentage of median income for your
area. Different programs may well have different requirements.

Other numbers may be involved, such as your age, the dollar value of
any assets you own (house, car, bank account, IRA), etc.

Programs may include such things as food aid, subsidized housing,
medical assistance, and the like. But there isn't any one rule that
applies everywhere.

Dave

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

James wrote:

> If you are at the line, what are you supposed to be able to do?

Realise that many can live quite well on what is allegedly the poverty line.

> Are you supposed to be able to afford a certain size
> apartment with heat, eat healthy, and dress warmly?

Varys with where you 'live'

> Or is it just a number that qualifies you for welfare?

Nope, it isnt even that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How any dogma is fatal to its host...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d155ce5121b30773?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 9:40 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 21, 2:02 pm, MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 21, 1:47 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I will not mention nor elaborate on any specific examples out of
> > respect for Life generally and the individuals involved.
>
> > The mechanism are that unrecognized bogus notions, just as lies do,
> > produce cognitive dissonance between actuality across all levels of
> > existence, the seen, unseen..and even the yet to be discovered... and
> > the bogus notions, and various often vicious dogma. why?
>
> > duhhh... congnitive dissonance fragmants a persons entirety.. his or
> > her brain and spirit goes into internal conflict.. turmoil. it IS
> > fatal.. It is not just uncomfortable, it is fatal by well known and
> > studied mechanisms.
>
> > bogus notions are bogus... the world is enterly chock full of them...
> > wide ranges of pervasive bogus notions affection virtually all of
> > us... Various political, economic and social bogus notions... wide
> > swaths of what we call education, many that cause us to work
> > ourselves to death or that ruin the joy of life (causing the body to
> > generate self destructive chemistry... causing a wide range of
> > disease with stress recognized as causative factors. ).
>
> > ***
> > Cults
> > I am going to surprise a few people here.
>
> > Cults might be a net benefit in some aspects, especially as they
> > present an altenative bogus 'truth' that exposes larger cultural
> > insanity. To that extent a cult, or even a criminal cult affords
> > relief from wide ranges of any cultures bogus notions and their
> > destructive effects.
>
> > The more radical and insane the cult the greater it diverges from the
> > ambient mess.. the more beneficial such cult is in that specific
> > function.
>
> > ***
>
> > However to be effective in this way it must also be extreme... it
> > must present a sure fire dogma.. maximizing the congnitive dissonance,
> > it cannot be as hubbard said mamby pamby.. it must be hard core and
> > certain. in its error it creates utter ruin. ...
>
> > as we have seen with Scientology, no shortage of those dying young..
> > many by suicide as a result... the ultimate in cognitive dissonance...
> > and in the end destroying itself. Bogus notions produce self
> > destructive behaviors... this is also widely documented and a well
> > known side effects among any cults members.
>
> > **
> > a sure fire solution... dont believe anything, take a skeptical but
> > not negative view of all that you understand as factual, most
> > especially that which you hold the dearest... and especially that
> > which you are prepaired to defend.
>
> > waste all of that and you will be free of the cultural and other
> > dogma.
>
> > With that freedom, the actuality of existence simply ... errr
> > exists. Noticing such actuality is quite a relief.
>
> > Phil scott
>
> "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being
> very wasteful. How true that is."
> Dan Quale- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I typed that on my boat in the dark... hows that for an excuse

here is a corrected version

I will not mention nor elaborate on any specific examples out of
respect for Life generally , and the individuals involved.

The mechanism are that unrecognized bogus notions such as lies,
produce cognitive dissonance between actuality and the bogus
notion….

It does this across all levels of existence, the seen, unseen..and
even the yet to be discovered..

various often vicious dogma, education, support of a bogus burocracy
or aspect of govt.... and many religions included.

why?

congnitive dissonance fragments a persons entirety..
his or her brain and spirit goes into internal conflict.. turmoil.

it IS fatal.. It is not just uncomfortable,
it is fatal by well known and studied mechanisms.

Such a person finds relief only cleaving ever more tightly to his
destructive notions...it spins if fast from there.

bogus notions are bogus...

the world is entirerly chock full of bogus notions, ... wide ranges of
pervasive bogus notions affecting virtually all of us...

Various political, economic and social notions... wide swaths of what
we call education, many such idea's that cause us to work ourselves
to death, or ruin the joy of life

(causing the body to generate self destructive chemistry... causing a
wide range of disease are long since recognized as causative
factors. ).

***
Cults
I am going to surprise a few people here.

Cults might be a net benefit in some aspects, especially as they
present an alternative bogus 'truth' that exposes larger cultural
insanity.

To that extent a cult, or even a criminal cult, or terminally corrupt
and collapsing government affords relief.

This is seen extensively in the burocracy of any failing corporation
or nation… these drive that failure. In the end these people
become entirely vicious, and arrogantly self destruct.

The more radical and insane the cult is, the greater it diverges from
the ambient mess.. the more beneficial such cult is in that specific
function… as it creates yet a greater net ruin.

This goes on until the entire host nation collapses.

***

However to be effective in this way such cult, cabal or burocracy must
also be extreme...
it must present a sure fire dogma.. maximizing the congnitive
dissonance,

it must be hard core and certain. .. like that vicious lying doper
Rush Limbaugh for instance/ (that is not to justify the counterpart
parties, likewise half nuts in their own way)

in its error it creates utter ruin. ... arrogantly, with great force.
I ruins all it touches, including itself… and its nasty as hell, it
thinks nothing of lying or even outright murder.

as we have seen with Scientology and a wide range of other cults from
the Third Reich to those folks with the cool-aid…., no shortage of
those dying young.. many by suicide as a result... the ultimate in
cognitive dissonance... we have maimed tens of thousands of our own
and murdered hundreds of thousands of men women and children In Iraq
while at the same time bankrupting ourselves.

thats insanity of course... self assured insanity... that kind ruins
its self fast.

Bogus notions produce self destructive behaviors...

this is also widely documented and a well known side effects among any
corrupt government or cults members. These forcefully defend
destructive insanity. And by that means become themselves
destructively insane. There are a few examples on this NG.

**
a sure fire solution... don't believe anything, take a skeptical but
not negative view of all that you understand as factual, most
especially that which you hold the dearest... and especially that
which you are prepared to defend.

waste all of that, and you will be free of cultural and other dogma…
re-enabling your capability as an intelligent human being.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Designer Evisu Men's fashion jeans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/37feb8227ca7f3a9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 9:52 pm
From: greatwall_business@hotmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Heat cost vs wind chill
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4473379b2f5ac5b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:10 pm
From: Petepenguin@webtv.net (P T)

James wrote

>Does wind chill mean any thing when
>it comes to heat bill? Since the wind
>is not on you but on the house, does
>it take more heat to keep warm?

Your furnace produces heat.
Since your home does not get hotter and hotter, the heat the furnace
produces must be lost to the surrounding environment.
If the heat is lost faster rather than slower, the furnace must produce
heat faster, which must result in a higher bill.

Does a wind cause the house to lose heat faster? Does blowing on hot
soup or coffee cool it down faster?

QED

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving Money on Calendars
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9b326729403ee2be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 22 2008 10:32 pm
From: Petepenguin@webtv.net (P T)

Apparently many of you feel it is adequate to use a calendar that is 7
or 12 or ? years old and simply ignore the year printed on the calendar.

I carry it one step further. I use whatever calendar is handy. Every
month I open it to whatever month agrees with the days and dates of the
current month, and I ignore the month and the year printed on the
calendar. Sometimes I am off by a day at the end of the month, the 30
versus 31 problem, but that is seldom a big issue.

My lifestyle is simple enough that I seldom need to consult a calendar
to plan something beyond next week. If you are constantly making
appointments weeks in advance, I suppose my system might be inadequate
for you.

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Monday, December 22, 2008

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