Frugal Living: Apr 7, 2008

Monday, April 7, 2008

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tracfone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56cc0a72df54a2f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 9:10 am
From: "Chloe"

"Boothbay" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8738bbe2-c781-4876-bd9d-49459c7b7bd4@8g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
> can anyone here recommend the Tracfone? Is it reliable, pros and cons
> please.

I use a cell phone only a few minutes a week--and almost never in roaming
mode--and for several years Tracfone was a convenient and frugal choice for
me. Then they switched local carriers and I began to get dropped calls
constantly. I had to give up on them. So I recommend buying only a few
minutes to start--or first talk to existing customers of the local Tracfone
carrier to see if they're satisfied with the quality of their coverage.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 11:51 am
From: Whispurr the Cat

h wrote:
>
> "Boothbay" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:8738bbe2-c781-4876-bd9d-49459c7b7bd4@8g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
> > can anyone here recommend the Tracfone? Is it reliable, pros and cons
> > please.
>
> I've had one for years, and I love it. That said, I only use it for
> emergencies, maybe 2-3 times a year. It's never not worked, and I've used it
> in the boonies. The best thing is that you can load the phone with two years
> of service and minutes and not worry about it again until it's time to
> renew. I've had the phone since 2001 and I've never had to purchase any
> extra minutes, since 150-200 minutes come with one year of service for $99.
> I buy an extra year of service for $50, but no extra minutes. I currently
> have over 600 minutes available on the phone, so I'm set for any emergency.
> If you do it that way it costs only $6/month, but that would change quickly
> if you used up your minutes. Of course, YMMV.

I basically agree with 'h' although I do use mine a little more. I currently
have 300+ minutes left with only 9 months of service left. I've not found a
way to buy months of service without buying more minutes. Last time I
re-upped, I got the extra y.o.s. for $50, but still will run out of months
before I use up the minutes.
Anybody figured out how to get more months?

Steve
southiowa

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 1:15 pm
From: "Craig"

"Whispurr the Cat" wrote...

> I basically agree with 'h' although I do use mine a little more. I
> currently
> have 300+ minutes left with only 9 months of service left. I've not found
> a
> way to buy months of service without buying more minutes. Last time I
> re-upped, I got the extra y.o.s. for $50, but still will run out of months
> before I use up the minutes.
> Anybody figured out how to get more months?
>
> Steve
> southiowa

Yes. Go to the Tracfone web site. You will find a $4.95 per month option to
add a month to your existing account without adding minutes. I think this is
only available via the Tracfone website (as opposed to cards you buy at the
supermarket, etc.)

Craig

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 2:55 pm
From: Dennis

On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:10:45 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote:

>"Boothbay" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:8738bbe2-c781-4876-bd9d-49459c7b7bd4@8g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
>> can anyone here recommend the Tracfone? Is it reliable, pros and cons
>> please.
>
>I use a cell phone only a few minutes a week--and almost never in roaming
>mode--and for several years Tracfone was a convenient and frugal choice for
>me. Then they switched local carriers and I began to get dropped calls
>constantly. I had to give up on them. So I recommend buying only a few
>minutes to start--or first talk to existing customers of the local Tracfone
>carrier to see if they're satisfied with the quality of their coverage.
>

Good idea. If you activate your Tracfone online, you get 20 min/60
days of service as part of the deal, so that gives you some time to
see if it works for you before you pay for more minutes/service time.

My family uses Tracfones and we're pretty happy with them. They use
the ATT network here and we have great signal/coverage in this area.
Not so great in other parts of the country, though (the plains states
for example).

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/768975553af6f6a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 9:35 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions about collision/comprehensive auto coverage.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eb6b1d33ccf35e79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 10:42 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:09:45 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and I was
>thinking about the comprehensive/collision coverage. The older car has
>liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car has a retail value
>of $9,580 and of the 30 or so listings on autotrader that seems to be an
>accurate average asking price.
>
>The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except the
>state's required liability insurance. The comprehensive/collision for
>the newer car is $501/year with a $500 deductible for collision and a
>$100 deductible for comprehensive.
>
>I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the
>comprehensive/collision coverage.

I'd keep comp, dump collision and drive defensively. AAMOF, our total
policy is now close to $500/yr. Time to shop insurance.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 11:29 am
From: "Chloe"

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:Sp6dnRcpVbXX2mfanZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and I was
> thinking about the comprehensive/collision coverage. The older car has
> liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car has a retail value
> of $9,580 and of the 30 or so listings on autotrader that seems to be an
> accurate average asking price.
>
> The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except the
> state's required liability insurance. The comprehensive/collision for the
> newer car is $501/year with a $500 deductible for collision and a $100
> deductible for comprehensive.
>
> I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the
> comprehensive/collision coverage.

There's probably a third option, which is to increase the deductible.

Really, only you know how much risk your use of your car places you in. For
example, do you drive long distances in heavy, fast-moving traffic? Is the
car often parked somewhere you could fall victim to collision, theft or
vandalism? And only you know how much of a financial problem it would be if
you had extensive damage or loss which you had to pay for yourself--in other
words, an accident which was your fault, or an accident in which the other
driver was at fault but had no insurance, or a theft.

As a *very* rough estimate, you might figure that your car, wrecked beyond
repair and deemed a total loss, would still have a value of 20%, or about
$1,900. So you'd have to come up with the difference if you wanted to
replace it with something of the same value.

If you decide to drop the coverage, you may want to consider putting an
amount equal to the premium into a earmarked savings, to help cover repairs
if you need them.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 12:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and I was thinking about the comprehensive/collision
> coverage. The older car has liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car has a retail value of $9,580 and of
> the 30 or so listings on autotrader that seems to be an accurate average asking price.

> The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except
> the state's required liability insurance. The comprehensive/collision
> for the newer car is $501/year with a $500 deductible for collision
> and a $100 deductible for comprehensive.

> I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the comprehensive/collision coverage.

I went for a higher deductable and get it for $103 per year on a higher value newer car.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 1:23 pm
From: "Craig"

"Rod Speed" wrote...

> George wrote:
>
>> We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and I was
>> thinking about the comprehensive/collision coverage. The older car has
>> liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car has a retail value
>> of $9,580 and of the 30 or so listings on autotrader that seems to be an
>> accurate average asking price.
>
>> The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except
>> the state's required liability insurance. The comprehensive/collision
>> for the newer car is $501/year with a $500 deductible for collision
>> and a $100 deductible for comprehensive.
>
>> I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the
>> comprehensive/collision coverage.
>
> I went for a higher deductable and get it for $103 per year on a higher
> value newer car.

What I go by is something I read somewhere in the recent past:

I will drop collision and comprehensive coverage when their combined annual
cost exceeds 10% of the current value of the vehicle. I have dropped C/C for
my '96 Explorer but still have it on my '01 Focus. If you're looking at a
$501 fee for a $9850 car, I'd keep it for now but maybe look into possible
savings on a higher-than-$100 comp. deductible.

Craig

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 1:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Craig <wpyr@invalid.us> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" wrote...
>
>> George wrote:
>>
>>> We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and
>>> I was thinking about the comprehensive/collision coverage. The
>>> older car has liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car
>>> has a retail value of $9,580 and of the 30 or so listings on
>>> autotrader that seems to be an accurate average asking price.
>>
>>> The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except
>>> the state's required liability insurance. The
>>> comprehensive/collision for the newer car is $501/year with a $500
>>> deductible for collision and a $100 deductible for comprehensive.
>>
>>> I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the
>>> comprehensive/collision coverage.
>>
>> I went for a higher deductable and get it for $103 per year on a
>> higher value newer car.
>
>
>
> What I go by is something I read somewhere in the recent past:
>
> I will drop collision and comprehensive coverage when their combined
> annual cost exceeds 10% of the current value of the vehicle. I have
> dropped C/C for my '96 Explorer but still have it on my '01 Focus. If
> you're looking at a $501 fee for a $9850 car, I'd keep it for now but
> maybe look into possible savings on a higher-than-$100 comp. deductible.

Trouble is that its just some number plucked out of someone's arse.

I gave up on any collision and comprehensive coverage with the previous
car that I kept for 35+ years, decades ago. Changed to a new car and
didnt like the idea of some uninsured fool wiping the new car out and me
not being able to get the money out of him, we have a lot of pickers around
here and many of them are illegals, so no chance of getting any money out
of them, let alone the cost of the new car which mostly do end up writeoffs
in any significant accident with the crumple zones etc that new cars have.

That 10% essentially converts to a risk of one accident in 10 years which
is nothing like what I got with the previous car which was just one accident
in 35+ years, just a minor dent to one corner of the car, someone else's fault.
Bought that car new too, I keep them for decades and the current one should
be the last one I need unless someone wipes it out.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: To smooth "one night stay"
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 11:57 am
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TOPIC: is it frugal to replace old top loading washer with new front loading
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/57c32f9bf6996aba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 12:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jimington <wvzubqtr@gfa.pp> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Joe <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> will the savings I make on water and electricity
>>>>> be substantial enough to pay for a new washer?

>>>> Nope.

>>>>> Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
>>>>> replacing old top loader with front loader
>>>>> or is the difference not noticeable?

>>>> Unlikely to be noticeable unless you do a hell of a lot of
>>>> washing and very little of anything else that uses water.

>>> my wife has been washing clothes pretty much every day

>> It makes more sense to change than than to change the washer.

>>> so it's a pretty sizeable amount of our daily water usage

>> Still wouldnt be economic to change the washer for a new front loader.

>>> and my washer is about 20-30 years old.

>> If its lasted that long, it could well last another decade or more too.

>> Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to buy a new one.

> Sometimes any excuse will do.
> We saw an ad a while back mentioning a $200 state government rebate
> for efficient machines, i.e front loaders. So with the 20 year old one having
> become very noisy decided to waste less than the previous fortune on one.

In my case the only real downside with the current top loader is that
the T shirts do end up a tad wrinkled compared with the previous one
which I still have which didnt wrinkle them, but did leave a noticeable
soap mark, the T shirts are mostly very dark blue. Its gearbox is dying
tho, the current one was free from when dad died. In fact its a bit quiet,
I have the PC alarm when its time to put the clothes on the line.

None of the reviews are much use on wrinkling, so I havent bothered
to replace it, since the wrinkles look bad when the T shirts are wet
but they're fine when dry. I never ever iron anything, ever, not even
proper shirts which I might wear once a decade or so.

> Just be warned that they may be far more suited to some people
> than others because whilst they wash very acceptably with little
> water they also take a very long time to go through a normal
> cycle. To me this isn't a problem but others like my wife like to put
> clothes straight from the machine to the line and hates the waiting.

Yeah, I prefer a quick cycle and still use a top loader myself.

> Pity too is that fixing the old machine was very simple since its problem
> was only a broken foot, simply fixed by welding it back in place.

Mine has plastic feet and I just put a block under that corner.

> I can't really say whether the new machine has lowered our water
> usage since last bill we only used 140 litres per day for the two of us.

I dont even use that, and almost never water the jungle except in the most
extreme drought and even then, I did in this one, didnt in the previous one.

> Bills from previously were similar although we do tend to have more
> staying visitors these days. We also have no need to reduce water
> consumption further since our council applies a minimum $5 a
> quarter charge and we're always very close to the minimum.

Yeah, me too.

> The worst thing about the rebate was after doing all the paperwork
> organising the rebate to be direct credited to our account, some lazy
> shinybum in the state government office sent us a cheque. prick or
> prickette!. That caused a visit to the bank, something i can well do without.

I just post those, mostly to ING.

> This of course answers nothing but at least i had some fun letting off steam.

True, pity we cant actually roast the prick or prickette literally |-)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 12:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote
> Joe wrote

>> will the savings I make on water and electricity be substantial enough to pay for a new washer? Anyone notice lower
>> utitily bills after replacing old top loader with front loader or is the difference not noticeable?

> Google yields this:

> http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html

> Most of the energy cost of a washer load is in heating the water and washers use copious amounts of it..

Anyone with a clue washes in cold water.

> So, plug in your own numbers and see where it takes you. If you do a lot of washing with hot water it will pay for
> itself in several years. If you don't it may never. Water and utility costs vary widely, as does usage.

> You may wish instead to just switch to a cold water detergent.

> I'm keeping my old washer but am considering a toilet swap to lower water useage. A much cheaper investment.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 3:10 pm
From: Dennis

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:59:51 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

>Joe wrote:
>> will the savings I make on water and electricity be substantial enough
>> to pay for a new washer? Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
>> replacing old top loader with front loader or is the difference not
>> noticeable?
>
> Google yields this:
>
>http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html
>
> Most of the energy cost of a washer load is in heating the water and
>washers use copious amounts of it.. So, plug in your own numbers and see
>where it takes you. If you do a lot of washing with hot water it will
>pay for itself in several years. If you don't it may never. Water and
>utility costs vary widely, as does usage.
>
> You may wish instead to just switch to a cold water detergent.

Front loaders also spin more of the water out of the clothes, so
drying times are shorter. If you use a gas or electric dryer, that
could mean some savings as well.

Check out your local gas/electric utility for any rebates you may be
eligible for when buying an energy star washer. They should also have
information on any state incentives that are available.

When we bought our front loader a few years ago, between the discount
from the retailer, the cash rebate from our electric utility and the
state tax credit, the net cost was US$258.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: universal healthcare
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4e9396469768688b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 12:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Ron Peterson <ron@shell.core.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote
>>> shims <shimshad...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> What are some of the downsides of universal health care?
>>> Universal health care may not be implemented correctly.
>>> (e.g. the goal should be to keep people healthy).

>> No possible when they choose to be obscenely obese and to smoke etc.

> There is a very high tax on tobacco that should be
> sufficient to pay for medical costs engendered by smoking.

Yes, our govt goes that route.

Not feasible with obesity tho.

And smokers arent such a problem health care costs wise either
because there is a real sense in which those who get killed by the
smoking avoid the high costs of the decrepit for the medical system.

> (I know that government organizations hijack that money for other purposes).

Sure, but what matters is that the total revenue from the tax
does amount to more than the smokers cost in health care costs.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 12:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Ron Peterson <ron@shell.core.com> wrote
> Napoleon <ana...@666yes.net> wrote
>> Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote

>>> Universal health care may not be implemented correctly.
>>> (e.g. the goal should be to keep people healthy).

>> It would only be implemented as Universal HEALTH INSURANCE.
>> Health insurance has absolutely nothing to do with keeping you healthy.
>> Insurance companies are there to make money, not so you can get your
>> proper tests, drugs and procedures to keep you healthy and alive.

> But universal health insurance is just a way to make
> sure that the doctors, clinics, and hospitals get paid.

> Medicare, for instance, outside of the initial welcome to Medicare checkup
> doesn't cover annual checkups which are essential to health care.

No they arent, even for the elderly.

Its only really cancer that benefits from getting caught early and annual
checkups hardly ever catch cancer except with pap smeers for women.

>> Once Americans get that concept through their heads, they will
>> realize that private health insurance is a thousand times worse than
>> socialized medicine. Health insurance companies are ripping you off
>> people! They are not in business to help get the proper health care.

> Universal health insurance isn't socialized medicine.

Indeed, its just a different way of paying for health care costs, just a form of taxation.

> Clinics and hospitals need to be run more efficiently
> to cut medical costs and improve outcomes.

Thats arguable when the vast bulk of health care costs are for the elderly.

> The CEO of the Mayo Clinic was on CSPAN claiming
> that Minnesota has much lower costs for health care
> and better outcomes because of the quality of his clinic.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: %100 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAND MADE HOME REPAİR
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d22782659716157d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 1:45 pm
From: "www.bizimelimiz.com"

hand made, art crafts, home repair go www.bizimelimiz.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LEARN HOW TO WORK FROM HOME WITH INTERNET
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c5a15e5051fb214?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 2:00 pm
From: "mezdek1@gmail.com"

http://narinay.webs.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mad money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56b3b6c9435d24da?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 3:37 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

When the Chinese buy the USA. They already have a lot of treasury bills.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:CrCdnW-Dme2vbGXanZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com...
But the skyrocketing debt can't continue forever. Where will it end?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 3:38 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Buy guns and bullets. For the up coming collapse. To defend my beans.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

" Frank" <noreplay@nothome.net> wrote in message
news:U-Odna_Jxe6aYWvanZ2dnUVZ_s-pnZ2d@comcast.com...
What are you guys going to do with the tax rebate? Hope the corner on the
economy has turn or well there be more pain forthcoming?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No THIS IS NOT SPAM: How Do I Spend This $50?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4ad85f828822aac1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 3:39 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Damn, that's good.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47f951a2$0$12549$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

Gifts are highly personal. Asking strangers on the
street for a gift idea is as pointless as asking
them to pick your spouse, pet or the color of your
underwear.

==============================================================================

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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Wholesale girard-perregaux-27650-0-11-6871 Cheapest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b467c9b994eac748?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 8:07 pm
From: Derald

mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov> wrote:

>Please help me out for a gift idea for myself.
Sell it on Craig's List or eBay for cash

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TOPIC: Nice guide on how to find cheap airline flights.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/85966a6f924788e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 8:31 pm
From: Joe

http://muvy.org/new.php

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 8:35 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Joe <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote:

> will the savings I make on water and electricity
> be substantial enough to pay for a new washer?

Nope.

> Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
> replacing old top loader with front loader
> or is the difference not noticeable?

Unlikely to be noticeable unless you do a hell of a lot of
washing and very little of anything else that uses water.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 9:20 pm
From: Joe

On Apr 6, 11:35 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > will the savings I make on water and electricity
> > be substantial enough to pay for a new washer?
>
> Nope.
>
> > Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
> > replacing old top loader with front loader
> > or is the difference not noticeable?
>
> Unlikely to be noticeable unless you do a hell of a lot of
> washing and very little of anything else that uses water.

my wife has been washing clothes pretty much every day so it's a
pretty sizeable amount of our daily water usage and my washer is about
20-30 years old.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 11:41 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Joe <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> will the savings I make on water and electricity
>>> be substantial enough to pay for a new washer?

>> Nope.

>>> Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
>>> replacing old top loader with front loader
>>> or is the difference not noticeable?

>> Unlikely to be noticeable unless you do a hell of a lot of
>> washing and very little of anything else that uses water.

> my wife has been washing clothes pretty much every day

It makes more sense to change than than to change the washer.

> so it's a pretty sizeable amount of our daily water usage

Still wouldnt be economic to change the washer for a new front loader.

> and my washer is about 20-30 years old.

If its lasted that long, it could well last another decade or more too.

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to buy a new one.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 8:43 pm
From: " Frank"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:65sik1F2h594lU1@mid.individual.net...
> Frank <noreplay@nothome.net> wrote:
>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote
>
>>> But the skyrocketing debt can't continue forever. Where will it end?
>
>> So much debt combined with the cheap dollar, we might end up with the
>> Mexicans owing America.
>
> Nope, not a chance. It wont happend with china either.
>

How much wealth do you think we're transferring to China and the oil
countries? How much of our market are already own by foreign investors? It
took a foreign country to prop up Citigroup, the largest retail bank at the
time, while US companies couldn't step in.

>> Kinda like Bear Stearns going for $2/share.
>
> Nope, nothing like.
>

Pretty ugly if the fed didn't step in while BSC going from $160/share to
zero in a hurry. Market could have crashed and more foreign investors
jumping in. Just like the purchasing of the housing market by foreign
investors - cheap real estate combined with cheap dollars. The trend is
selling off America more and more. How long can this go on? Goon thing is,
I think we already saw the bottom a month ago but who knows for sure.

>> Mexico is the second richest economy
>
> Like hell it is.
>
>> and has the richest person, Carlos Slim Helu, (dependent on stock
>> valuation) surpassing Gates and Buffett.
>
> And is worth less than Gates and Buffet combined.
>
>> Maybe we should do a reverse osmosis on the Mexican border.
>
> Taint gunna happen.
>

Carlos Slim Helu was first and may still be.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article2023023.ece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico

Must read it wrong, 13th largest now. And "by 2050 Mexico will be the 6th
largest economy in the world behind China, USA, India, Japan, and Brazil",
according to Wikipedia. Anyway, we're loosing ground to third world
countries and no longer be first..

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 7 2008 12:00 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Frank <noreplay@nothome.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Frank <noreplay@nothome.net> wrote
>>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote

>>>> But the skyrocketing debt can't continue forever. Where will it end?

>>> So much debt combined with the cheap dollar, we might end up with the Mexicans owing America.

>> Nope, not a chance. It wont happend with china either.

> How much wealth do you think we're transferring to China and the oil countries?

Quite a bit, but thats affordable. Nothing like what is poured down the rat hole for money that is Iraq.

> How much of our market are already own by foreign investors?

Not that much. The same line was run about Japan and that worked out fine.

> It took a foreign country to prop up Citigroup,

No it didnt. If no foreign country had not been prepared to do that, it
would have been perfectly feasible for the US to have done that itself.

It wasnt even as much as the rebate handout to try
to get the economy from slowing down too much.

> the largest retail bank at the time, while US companies couldn't step in.

That last is just plain wrong.

>>> Kinda like Bear Stearns going for $2/share.

>> Nope, nothing like.

> Pretty ugly if the fed didn't step in while BSC going from $160/share to zero in a hurry.

It did step in. It didnt choose to bail out the fools that had been
stupid enough to try to profit from what that operation was doing.

> Market could have crashed

Nope.

> and more foreign investors jumping in.

If the market had crashed, they wouldnt do that.

> Just like the purchasing of the housing market by foreign investors - cheap real estate combined with cheap dollars.

The same mindless line was run about Japan at one time too.

That clearly worked out fine.

> The trend is selling off America more and more.

The same mindless line was run about Japan at one time too.

That clearly worked out fine.

> How long can this go on?

Until the US gets sick of pouring trillions down that
rat hole for money that Iraq has become, basically.

But the US spent a hell of a lot more than that on WW2
and the cold war and Korea and Vietnam and that work fine.

> Goon thing is, I think we already saw the bottom a month ago

Time will tell. I think its rather unlikely that Bear Stearns
is the only operation to have fucked up that spectacularly.

But its clear that Bear Stearns is survivable, so even another should be too.

> but who knows for sure.

Yep, no one ever rings a bell at the bottom.

>>> Mexico is the second richest economy

>> Like hell it is.

>>> and has the richest person, Carlos Slim Helu, (dependent on stock valuation) surpassing Gates and Buffett.

>> And is worth less than Gates and Buffet combined.

>>> Maybe we should do a reverse osmosis on the Mexican border.

>> Taint gunna happen.

> Carlos Slim Helu was first and may still be.
> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article2023023.ece

Yes, but like I said, he's worth less than Gates and Buffet combined, and thats what matters.

The total of all the megarich in mexico is a hell of a lot less than the total of all the megarich in the US in spades.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico

> Must read it wrong, 13th largest now.

Yep, it was never ever the second richest and never will be either.

> And "by 2050 Mexico will be the 6th largest economy in the world behind China, USA, India, Japan, and Brazil",
> according to Wikipedia.

And since anyone can write anything they like in wikipedia, thats just straight out of someone's arse.

Bet that doesnt happen, if only because their economy is crippled by their stupid
approach of pumping out hordes of brats, because thats that the roman catholic
church tells them to do, and they are stupid enough to do what they are told on that.

Even the Italians had enough of a clue to tell the pope to take his demands and shove them
where the sun dont shine. No south or central american country has had that much of a clue.

And lets not forget what they got up to human sacrifice wise.

> Anyway, we're loosing ground to third world countries

Nope, they are just doing a lot better than they used to, the ones with a clue, anyway.

Hardly any of them are stupid enough to bother with wars anymore.

> and no longer be first..

That wont be changing any time soon when you measure it properly.

Its still where the full commercialisation of almost all technology happens
first, and that hasnt changed significantly even in the last decade, most
obviously with ebay, paypal, google, the internet, etc etc etc.

And with terminal stupiditys like sub prime loans and the securitization of those too.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 8:44 pm
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Cheap Chopard Happy Beach Diamond Fish Steel Blue Mini Ladies Watch 27/
8923 Wholesale, Replicas, Fake
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/747f9e2e0acabd94?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 10:38 pm
From: wangxiaojie1002@gmail.com

Cheap Chopard Happy Beach Diamond Fish Steel Blue Mini Ladies Watch
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Case Material : Stainless Steel
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TOPIC: Wholesale GP-80390.1.11.604 Cheapest
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==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 6 2008 10:38 pm
From: wangxiaojie1002@gmail.com

Wholesale GP-80390.1.11.604 Cheapest

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==============================================================================

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