Frugal Living: Mar 29, 2008

Saturday, March 29, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/926dd647a485f42f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:35 pm
From: "T Shadow"

"Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
news:13usfq3qnngln8b@corp.supernews.com...
> Bert Hyman wrote:
> > In news:20080328223451.435$Qn@newsreader.com jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV
Converter
> >> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008.
$28/bo
> >
> > https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
> >
> > 11. Can coupons be sold?
> >
> > No. It is illegal to sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
>
> What makes you think anyone actually cares what is or isn't legal for
> these coupons?
>
> --

AFAICT the "coupons" are tied to an address, Being like a credit/debit card
they get instant verification as to how many have been sold for that
address.

Risk $28 to save $12? Not even if I couldn't get my own coupons.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:32 pm
From: Jer

T Shadow wrote:
> "Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
> news:13usfq3qnngln8b@corp.supernews.com...
>> Bert Hyman wrote:
>>> In news:20080328223451.435$Qn@newsreader.com jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV
> Converter
>>>> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008.
> $28/bo
>>> https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
>>>
>>> 11. Can coupons be sold?
>>>
>>> No. It is illegal to sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>> What makes you think anyone actually cares what is or isn't legal for
>> these coupons?
>>
>> --
>
> AFAICT the "coupons" are tied to an address, Being like a credit/debit card
> they get instant verification as to how many have been sold for that
> address.
>
> Risk $28 to save $12? Not even if I couldn't get my own coupons.
>

And you think a sales droid is gonna give a flip about an address? Like
the FEMA cards? Shee-it. People use other people's cards all the time
- they don't care if the names are different even if they bothered to
look. Plastic? Ka-ching! That's all they care about.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:37 pm
From: Bill R

jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:

> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV Converter
> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008. $28/bo

The buyer may not be able to use it (and selling them IS illegal). You
are MUCH better off buying a box with the coupon and selling it (that IS
legal).
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ and x in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 2:35 pm
From: Rick

Jer wrote:
>
> Bert Hyman wrote:
> > In news:20080328223451.435$Qn@newsreader.com jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV Converter
> >> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008. $28/bo
> >
> > https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
> >
> > 11. Can coupons be sold?
> >
> > No. It is illegal to sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
>
> What makes you think anyone actually cares what is or isn't legal for
> these coupons?
>
> --
> jer
> email reply - I am not a 'ten'

I care more about what is or isn't stupid about paying money for a
coupon you can get for free.

Rick

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 3:09 pm
From: "T Shadow"

"Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
news:13ut69onah38c3@corp.supernews.com...
> T Shadow wrote:
> > "Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
> > news:13usfq3qnngln8b@corp.supernews.com...
> >> Bert Hyman wrote:
> >>> In news:20080328223451.435$Qn@newsreader.com jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV
> > Converter
> >>>> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008.
> > $28/bo
> >>> https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
> >>>
> >>> 11. Can coupons be sold?
> >>>
> >>> No. It is illegal to sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.
> >>>
> >>> Good luck.
> >>>
> >> What makes you think anyone actually cares what is or isn't legal for
> >> these coupons?
> >>
> >> --
> >
> > AFAICT the "coupons" are tied to an address, Being like a credit/debit
card
> > they get instant verification as to how many have been sold for that
> > address.
> >
> > Risk $28 to save $12? Not even if I couldn't get my own coupons.
> >
>
>
> And you think a sales droid is gonna give a flip about an address? Like
> the FEMA cards? Shee-it. People use other people's cards all the time
> - they don't care if the names are different even if they bothered to
> look. Plastic? Ka-ching! That's all they care about.
>
> --

I think the card won't work because it's already been used.
Buy all you want.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Un-insulated water heater tank by woodstove!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a42916fb887669dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:03 pm
From: willshak

on 3/28/2008 11:16 AM Lee K said the following:
> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:654bunF2e2n0aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>> my > hot water heater????
>>
>>
>
> Just curious: why is it that you want to heat hot water?

You know what he meant. Have nothing else to contribute?

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:09 pm
From: willshak

on 3/28/2008 9:59 AM Bill said the following:
> As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> bill...
>
> Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot of
> heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into my
> hot water heater????
>
> Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed the
> sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare metal
> 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.
>
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall next
> to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if I
> have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install the
> tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be. That
> is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe to
> outside for draining the tank.
>
> Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibility
> of steam being created.
>
>
>
How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the
back of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather
than radiation?

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:25 pm
From: Don Bruder

In article <13ut4v5pok38v14@news.supernews.com>,
willshak <willshak@00hvc.rr.com> wrote:

> on 3/28/2008 9:59 AM Bill said the following:
> > As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> > bill...
> >
> > Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot
> > of
> > heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
> >
> > Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into my
> > hot water heater????
> >
> > Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
> >
> > I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed the
> > sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare
> > metal
> > 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.
> >
> > Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> > water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> > connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> > of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> > water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
> >
> > Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall
> > next
> > to my woodstove.
> >
> > After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> > wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> > tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> > the top was not cold.
> >
> > The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
> >
> > Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> > instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> > need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if I
> > have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> > while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
> >
> > Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install
> > the
> > tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be.
> > That
> > is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> > suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe
> > to
> > outside for draining the tank.
> >
> > Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> > gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibility
> > of steam being created.
> >
> >
> >
> How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the
> back of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather
> than radiation?

Do that and you start running into the potential for steam, which leads
to needing to deal with the related hazards that can come of it being in
an enclosed place... (Can you say boiler license, pressure vessel,
regulator valve, state inspector, and "expensive"? Sure... I knew you
could!)

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 1:46 pm
From: Neon John

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:25:54 -0700, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote:

>> How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
>> woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the
>> back of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather
>> than radiation?
>
>Do that and you start running into the potential for steam, which leads
>to needing to deal with the related hazards that can come of it being in
>an enclosed place... (Can you say boiler license, pressure vessel,
>regulator valve, state inspector, and "expensive"? Sure... I knew you
>could!)

Geez, I wonder how all those millions of oil, wood and coal-fired furnace water
heating loops manage to operate without a special grant of privilege from Congress?
Maybe some day some academic will do a study and figure out why Usenet seems to
attract such a concentration of dickhead-isms.

For a simple application like this, a simple water heater P-T relief valve is more
than adequate. As far as the bureaucracies go, there is no involvement until a
certain large firing rate. In Ga it is 1.5 million BTU per unit. TN's is a little
lower - can't recall exactly - but still above 1 million BTU.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I'm going crazy. Wanna come along?

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 2:29 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"

"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
> Geez, I wonder how all those millions of oil, wood and coal-fired furnace
> water
> heating loops manage to operate without a special grant of privilege from
> Congress?
> Maybe some day some academic will do a study and figure out why Usenet
> seems to
> attract such a concentration of dickhead-isms.
>
> For a simple application like this, a simple water heater P-T relief valve
> is more
> than adequate. As far as the bureaucracies go, there is no involvement
> until a
> certain large firing rate. In Ga it is 1.5 million BTU per unit. TN's is
> a little
> lower - can't recall exactly - but still above 1 million BTU.
>
> John

In Mass, it is pressure. Anything with a 15 psi relief valve is OK, no
matter the size. At 15 psi and over you need a different license depending
on size. Up to 299 hp you need a special or a 2nd class fireman, at 300 hp
you need an engineer full time. etc. There is an exception for very small
boilers but I forget the size.

In any case, it is not very difficult to make a loop that would be safe and
not require input from any government agency.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 3:09 pm
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

On Mar 29, 2:25�pm, Don Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> wrote:
> In article <13ut4v5pok38...@news.supernews.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> �willshak <wills...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> > on 3/28/2008 9:59 AM Bill said the following:
> > > As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> > > bill...
>
> > > Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot
> > > of
> > > heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> > > Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into my
> > > hot water heater????
>
> > > Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> > > I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed the
> > > sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare
> > > metal
> > > 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.
>
> > > Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> > > water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> > > connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> > > of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> > > water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> > > Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall
> > > next
> > > to my woodstove.
>
> > > After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> > > wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> > > tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> > > the top was not cold.
>
> > > The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> > > Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> > > instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> > > need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if I
> > > have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> > > while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> > > Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install
> > > the
> > > tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be.
> > > That
> > > is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> > > suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe
> > > to
> > > outside for draining the tank.
>
> > > Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> > > gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibility
> > > of steam being created.
>
> > How about a coil of soft copper tubing attached to the rear of the
> > woodstove before it goes into your storage tank ( a coil like on the
> > back of a dehumidifer) which would transfer heat by convection rather
> > than radiation?
>
> Do that and you start running into the potential for steam, which leads
> to needing to deal with the related hazards that can come of it being in
> an enclosed place... (Can you say boiler license, pressure vessel,
> regulator valve, state inspector, and "expensive"? Sure... I knew you
> could!)
>
> --
> Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
> or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
> somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
> ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

if there were a way to takew the flue exhaust gasses of woodstove thru
the old flue of a gas hot water tank with no burner.........

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why do homeowners have to make profit for their houses?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f27272fd623bd4c3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

j_alik@yahoo.com wrote:

> Why do homeowners expect to make money on their houses,

Because the bulk of them have done over time. Normally more than
they ever do with anything else with the exception of their total wages.

> while renters have to spend for the domicile?

Because they are too stupid to be able to grasp the advantages of ownership.

> It is against all the tenets in Economy 101.

Nope.

> (1) There is no free lunch (including living) in U.S. or anywhere in the world.

Yes there is if you're happy to 'live' under a bridge etc.

> (2) The price of either tangible or intangible products is determined by supply and demand.

Its MUCH more complicated than that in practice.

> (3) Nothing goes in one direction only in the Universe.

There is a general trend in the direction of higher house
prices over time tho in all except ghost towns etc.

> Contrary thinking:
> (1) If buying house always makes money,

Only a fool claims that.

> why are there so many realtors and mortgage brokers?

Because plenty dont live in the one house for their entire lives.

> Why are they keeping buying houses for themselves
> as many as they can (because it is totally legal)?

Because they believe they will be better off than not doing that.

Thats true quite a bit of the time as long as you dont get too carried away.

> Reverse thinking:
> (1) For a house already in the market for 30 years, do you really want to
> buy it (old, small, in less-favored location, high cost to fix problems, etc.)?

Yep, its one way to make decent money.

And in some countrys thats tax free money too.

> It will be the similar condition 30 years from now what your
> new house looks like, no matter how you well-maintain it.

Thats just plain wrong depending on its construction.

> (2) For a homeowner who has already owned his/her house
> for 30 years, would he/she really make much money after
> factoring in the maintenance cost in all these years?

Yep, if its well constructed in the first place, the maintenance cost is peanuts.

I build mine properly in the first place and the only maintenance
has been a single replacement of the hot water heater in that time.

And a renter has to pay that anyway, its built into the rent.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:43 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

j_alik@yahoo.com wrote:

> Correction:

> Contrary thinking:
> (1) If buying house always makes money, why are there so many
> realtors and mortgage brokers? Why AREN'T they keeping buying
> houses for themselves as many as they can (because it is totally legal)?

Because most of them are in the business of making money on each sale instead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Definition
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01325490a4f876e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:46 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

News reader <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote:
> Runge11 wrote:
>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the
>> world. Take a mirror and look at yourself.

> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from becoming Germany.

And stopped Japan from fucking over anything they felt like fucking over.

> We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated. We
> freed the Afgans from the Taliban and Al-Queda. We took out the cruel
> dictator from Iraq. But we only get criticized for the 'misery and
> death' that we cause. In my opinion the U.S. should remind the world
> exactly what good we do, by backing out of world affairs for a bit,
> and then watch the world go to hell in a hand basket. And then say "I
> told you so." when the world insists that we start helping again.
>
>
>> "News reader" <dont-even-bother@blank.net> a écrit dans le message de
>> news:8IKdnVdaMuAo6nDanZ2dnUVZ_vXinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> ???? ????? wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What does 'Islam' mean? Islam is not a new religion, but the same
>>>> truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people;
>>>> Islam is both a religion and the complete way of life. Muslims
>>>> follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness. The Arabic
>>>> word 'Islam' simply means 'submission', and derives from a word
>>>> meaning 'peace'. In a religious cont ext it means complete
>>>> submission to the will of God. 'Mohammadanism' is thus a misnomer
>>>> because it suggests that Muslims worship Muhammad (peace be upon
>>>> him) rather than God. 'Allah' is the Arabic name for God, which is
>>>> used by Arab Muslims and Christians alike.
>>>>
>>>> Islam is not Just for Arabs. The Truth of Islam is meant for all
>>>> people regardless of race, nationality or linguistic background.
>>>> Taking a look at the Muslim World, from Nigeria to Bosnia and from
>>>> Malaysia to Afghanistan is enough to prove that Islam is a
>>>> Universal message for all of mankind --- not to mention the fact
>>>> that significant numbers of Europeans and Americans of all races
>>>> and ethnic backgrounds are coming into Islam
>>>
>>> To me it means flying planes into buildings and killing 3000
>>> innocent people.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:47 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote
> News reader <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote
>> Runge11 wrote

>>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the world. Take a mirror and look at yourself.

>> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from
>> becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated.

> Which Hebrews did you save?

> The European ones were dead and the ones who made it to the Middle
> East managed to save themselves quite effectively with Czech arms.

They did that time, but wouldnt have with the later wars.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Col <reddwarfer2@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> "News reader" <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote in message
> news:5sOdnYGPRoQh2nPanZ2dnUVZ_oGjnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Runge11 wrote:
>>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the
>>> world. Take a mirror and look at yourself.
>>>
>> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from
>> becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated. We
>> freed the Afgans from the Taliban and Al-Queda. We took out the
>> cruel dictator from Iraq. But we only get criticized for the 'misery
>> and death' that we cause. In my opinion the U.S. should remind the
>> world exactly what good we do, by backing out of world affairs for a
>> bit, and then watch the world go to hell in a hand basket. And then
>> say "I told you so." when the world insists that we start helping again.

> Why don't you 'take out' Mugabe, then?

Same reason no one bothered about Rwanda, too insignificant
to matter and african countrys always degenerate into complete
obscenitys in no time flat whatever the west does.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 1:03 pm
From: "Ophelia"

Col wrote:
> "Ophelia" <O@nix.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:6579bqF2e9k5iU2@mid.individual.net...
>> Col wrote:
>>> "News reader" <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote in message
>>> news:5sOdnYGPRoQh2nPanZ2dnUVZ_oGjnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Runge11 wrote:
>>>>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the
>>>>> world. Take a mirror and look at yourself.
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France
>>>> from becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming
>>>> eradicated. We freed the Afgans from the Taliban and Al-Queda. We
>>>> took out the cruel dictator from Iraq. But we only get criticized
>>>> for the 'misery and death' that we cause. In my opinion the U.S.
>>>> should remind the world exactly what good we do, by backing out of
>>>> world affairs for a bit, and then watch the world go to hell in a
>>>> hand basket. And then say "I told you so." when the world insists
>>>> that we start helping again.
>>>
>>> Why don't you 'take out' Mugabe, then?
>>
>> Hehe.... don't ya know there is no oil?
>
> It was in fact a rhetorical question :)

Just as well.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 1:14 pm
From: "Col"

"Ophelia" <O@nix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:657lr3F2e79pvU2@mid.individual.net...
> Col wrote:

>>> Hehe.... don't ya know there is no oil?
>>
>> It was in fact a rhetorical question :)
>
> Just as well.

Makes me wonder though what would happen if Zimbabwe suddenly
found oil reserves as large as that of Iraq....
--
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 2:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Col <reddwarfer2@tiscali.co.uk> wrote
> Ophelia <O@nix.co.uk> wrote
>> Col wrote

>>>> Hehe.... don't ya know there is no oil?

>>> It was in fact a rhetorical question :)

>> Just as well.

> Makes me wonder though what would happen if Zimbabwe suddenly found oil reserves as large as that of Iraq....

Nothing much. Have a look at Nigeria sometime.

And there is no oil in Somalia, Beirut, Afghanistan, France, the Philipines, etc etc etc.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 1:57 pm
From: "Ophelia"

Col wrote:
> "Ophelia" <O@nix.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:657lr3F2e79pvU2@mid.individual.net...
>> Col wrote:
>
>>>> Hehe.... don't ya know there is no oil?
>>>
>>> It was in fact a rhetorical question :)
>>
>> Just as well.
>
> Makes me wonder though what would happen if Zimbabwe suddenly
> found oil reserves as large as that of Iraq....

OH! I think you would have no need to wonder!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: working from home for the next 5 weeks?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e946a2a773f633a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:58 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Sal_55 <zaman_2756@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 28 Mar, 01:56, "Lou" <lpogodajr292...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Sal_55 wrote:
>>>> On 27 Mar, 22:20, "mart2...@hotmail.com" <mart2...@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 27 Mar, 21:31, Sal_55 <zaman_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I'm ill, and can't leave the house at all for the next 5 weeks or
>>>>>> so. So I'm interested in knowing if anyone can tell me of any
>>>>>> ways I can work from home for this period of time? I have done a
>>>>>> quick search of the web and already I'm getting the impression
>>>>>> that there arer a lot of scam sites offering work to people
>>>>>> desperate for extra money. So I'm looking for genuine work only.
>>>>>> Also, I don't want to sound too greedy, but I'd obviously prefer
>>>>>> jobs which are high paying than low paying jobs.
>>>>>> This might sound weird, but I know those companies which offer
>>>>>> people money to allow them to take part in clinical trials of new
>>>>>> pharmaceutical drugs, require all people testing drugs to be
>>>>>> healthy. But I can't even leave the house due to a broken bone.
>>>>>> But are there any companies which allow people to be tested with
>>>>>> drugs at home? Alternatively,are there any other products which
>>>>>> I can test at home and be paid for testing them? Please don't
>>>>>> laugh if that is too stupd a question.
>>>>>> Thanks for reading this and bye.
>>
>>>>> Can buy and sell on ebay.
>>>>> Not so sure about the high paying bit - there are several I can
>>>>> think of but all take longer than 5 weeks to set up and get going
>>>>> to more than cover costs.
>>>>> Still, if you have the right skills, some employers will pay for
>>>>> work done.
>>
>>>>> Writing articles for magazines is profitable. But can you write
>>>>> well enough to be noticed in the slush pile?
>>
>>>>> Martin <><- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>> Putting modesty to one side, I am quite quick-witted with a sharp
>>>> tongue. But that's a symptom of my depression. I can write good
>>>> english and amuse ppl,but I don't want to. Because that'll be the
>>>> depression talking. Most ppl won't understand what I just wrote.
>>>> Ppl who're clinically depressed often become very witty. Just as
>>>> blind ppl develop acute hearing. I don't really know the
>>>> reason,maybe it's a defence mechanism of sorts.
>>>> I like the idea of buying and selling on ebay a lot. On laptop
>>>> computers I can imagine making 40 pounds on each laptop won't be
>>>> too hard. But how do I take the laptops to the post office,with my
>>>> broken foot?
>>>> Sorry for sounding so damn lazy,but what I'd really like is to have
>>>> some pharmaceuticals injected into me, and then in 5 weeks time, I
>>>> can go to the Clinical research companies headquarters and have the
>>>> necessary blood tests, and be paid.
>>
>> What's the deal - are you in traction or something else that totally
>> immobilizes you? How do you get to the bathroom, the dinner table,
>> the horizontal surface your computer is sitting on so you can type
>> these posts?
>> Ever hear of a wheelchair or crutches?
>>
>> I work in the clinical trial field, though not at testing sites. Some
>> trials require you to be sick - they're testing drugs/devices that
>> hopefully will make sick people better, after all. Some early stage
>> trials require
>> you to be healthy - they're checking to see what doses can be
>> tolerated, how long they stay in the body, and possible side
>> effects. Some trials last
>> only a day, some for weeks, months, ...
>>
>> Most trials are pills, not injections. Ones that are injections or
>> IV's generally are a series of injections or IV's. For the ones that
>> use healthy subjects where the drug "half-life" is being checked,
>> they take a blood
>> sample every 30 minutes or so for several hours.
>> I've never heard of one where they come to your house.
>>
>> Yes you get paid (if you follow instructions), but you'll never get
>> rich
>> being a test subject. I've never heard of a trial where the
>> doctors/technicians/whatever come to your house.
>>
>> And just as an aside, my sister has a broken foot and is still wearing a
>> boot and using crutches six months after the event. She's raising three
>> kids, keeping house, and going to work every day. Oh, and going to the
>> doctor, who says everything is progressing right on schedule.

> Thanks for the input Lou. I'm sorry to hear about your sister. But the
> ppl in the hospital here in England told me not to walk at all. And If
> I do have to walk to use crutches. They said the more I walked, even
> on crutches,the longer it will take the broekn bone to heal. They told
> me that if I don't use my foot at all,it should heal in about 5 weeks.

They're right.

> But I've been a naughty boy, and have been walking without
> crutches to make coffee and go to the toilet. In my defence,
> when I do walk I don't put any pressure on the broken foot, but
> sort of drag it, whilst putting all the pressure on the healthy foot.

Not even possible to do that.

> Not as good as using crutches, but at least I don't leave the house at all on long walks.

You're still significantly increasing the time till it heals.

Doesnt england provide any welfare for when you cant work ?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 3:57 pm
From: "mart2306@hotmail.com"

On 29 Mar, 19:58, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sal_55 <zaman_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On 28 Mar, 01:56, "Lou" <lpogodajr292...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> Sal_55 wrote:
> >>>> On 27 Mar, 22:20, "mart2...@hotmail.com" <mart2...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> On 27 Mar, 21:31, Sal_55 <zaman_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> I'm ill, and can't leave the house at all for the next 5 weeks or
> >>>>>> so. So I'm interested in knowing if anyone can tell me of any
> >>>>>> ways I can work from home for this period of time? I have done a
> >>>>>> quick search of the web and already I'm getting the impression
> >>>>>> that there arer a lot of scam sites offering work to people
> >>>>>> desperate for extra money. So I'm looking for genuine work only.
> >>>>>> Also, I don't want to sound too greedy, but I'd obviously prefer
> >>>>>> jobs which are high paying than low paying jobs.
> >>>>>> This might sound weird, but I know those companies which offer
> >>>>>> people money to allow them to take part in clinical trials of new
> >>>>>> pharmaceutical drugs, require all people testing drugs to be
> >>>>>> healthy. But I can't even leave the house due to a broken bone.
> >>>>>> But are there any companies which allow people to be tested with
> >>>>>> drugs at home? Alternatively,are there any other products which
> >>>>>> I can test at home and be paid for testing them? Please don't
> >>>>>> laugh if that is too stupd a question.
> >>>>>> Thanks for reading this and bye.
>
> >>>>> Can buy and sell on ebay.
> >>>>> Not so sure about the high paying bit - there are several I can
> >>>>> think of but all take longer than 5 weeks to set up and get going
> >>>>> to more than cover costs.
> >>>>> Still, if you have the right skills, some employers will pay for
> >>>>> work done.
>
> >>>>> Writing articles for magazines is profitable. But can you write
> >>>>> well enough to be noticed in the slush pile?
>
> >>>>> Martin <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >>>> Putting modesty to one side, I am quite quick-witted with a sharp
> >>>> tongue. But that's a symptom of my depression. I can write good
> >>>> english and amuse ppl,but I don't want to. Because that'll be the
> >>>> depression talking. Most ppl won't understand what I just wrote.
> >>>> Ppl who're clinically depressed often become very witty. Just as
> >>>> blind ppl develop acute hearing. I don't really know the
> >>>> reason,maybe it's a defence mechanism of sorts.
> >>>> I like the idea of buying and selling on ebay a lot. On laptop
> >>>> computers I can imagine making 40 pounds on each laptop won't be
> >>>> too hard. But how do I take the laptops to the post office,with my
> >>>> broken foot?
> >>>> Sorry for sounding so damn lazy,but what I'd really like is to have
> >>>> some pharmaceuticals injected into me, and then in 5 weeks time, I
> >>>> can go to the Clinical research companies headquarters and have the
> >>>> necessary blood tests, and be paid.
>
> >> What's the deal - are you in traction or something else that totally
> >> immobilizes you? How do you get to the bathroom, the dinner table,
> >> the horizontal surface your computer is sitting on so you can type
> >> these posts?
> >> Ever hear of a wheelchair or crutches?
>
> >> I work in the clinical trial field, though not at testing sites. Some
> >> trials require you to be sick - they're testing drugs/devices that
> >> hopefully will make sick people better, after all. Some early stage
> >> trials require
> >> you to be healthy - they're checking to see what doses can be
> >> tolerated, how long they stay in the body, and possible side
> >> effects. Some trials last
> >> only a day, some for weeks, months, ...
>
> >> Most trials are pills, not injections. Ones that are injections or
> >> IV's generally are a series of injections or IV's. For the ones that
> >> use healthy subjects where the drug "half-life" is being checked,
> >> they take a blood
> >> sample every 30 minutes or so for several hours.
> >> I've never heard of one where they come to your house.
>
> >> Yes you get paid (if you follow instructions), but you'll never get
> >> rich
> >> being a test subject. I've never heard of a trial where the
> >> doctors/technicians/whatever come to your house.
>
> >> And just as an aside, my sister has a broken foot and is still wearing a
> >> boot and using crutches six months after the event. She's raising three
> >> kids, keeping house, and going to work every day. Oh, and going to the
> >> doctor, who says everything is progressing right on schedule.
> > Thanks for the input Lou. I'm sorry to hear about your sister. But the
> > ppl in the hospital here in England told me not to walk at all. And If
> > I do have to walk to use crutches. They said the more I walked, even
> > on crutches,the longer it will take the broekn bone to heal. They told
> > me that if I don't use my foot at all,it should heal in about 5 weeks.
>
> They're right.
>
> > But I've been a naughty boy, and have been walking without
> > crutches to make coffee and go to the toilet. In my defence,
> > when I do walk I don't put any pressure on the broken foot, but
> > sort of drag it, whilst putting all the pressure on the healthy foot.
>
> Not even possible to do that.
>
> > Not as good as using crutches, but at least I don't leave the house at all on long walks.
>
> You're still significantly increasing the time till it heals.
>
> Doesnt england provide any welfare for when you cant work ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, there is welfare (statutory sick pay) for when you can't work.
Not a great deal of money.
Plus insurances can be paid for on credit cards, mortgage and so on to
cover payments after a period of time (usually so many weeks). If
employed, many employers pay sick pay at whatever the current pay is
anyway.

Martin <><

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving in New York on 99 cents
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3504240fa7698ae2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 1:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Donna wrote
>>>>>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote
>>>>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/dining/26ninety.html?_r=1&ref=dining&oref=slogin>
>>>>>> Interesting story. Our dollar stores are not that great around
>>>>>> here and often carry really inferior products. I'm thinking NYC
>>>>>> has more to offer.
>>>>> The 99-Cents-Only stores in the Los Angeles (and other, I guess)
>>>>> area carry a lot of foreign food (mostly China, but not
>>>>> exclusively), a variety of name-brand sausage/hotdog products,
>>>> Trouble is that those are made from surplus cats and dogs and rats.
>>>>
>>>>> fresh vegetables and fruits, a lot of exotic sauces (the
>>>>> Philippine banana sauce was pretty bland, but wotthehell) and a
>>>>> nice variety of brand-name toothpaste and deodorant as well as a
>>>>> lot of imported bathroom needs and cleaning supplies. Like
>>>>> Fry's, you could live in a 99-Cents-Only store :-)
>>>>> http://www.99only.com/
>>>>> I love those stores. The penny-a-minute long distance cards alone
>>>>> are worth the price of admission.
>>>> You're better off with voip.
>>
>>> Until your internet connection goes down. VOIP is fine for social
>>> calls or for companies with offices in different countries that need
>>> to call each other but I would not want my business to customer
>>> calls dependent on that service.
>>
>> There arent likely to be too many businesses that rely on
>> penny-a-minute long distance cards alone, cretin.

> But some businesses do rely on VOIP

None rely on penny-a-minute long distance cards alone, cretin.

> and the inherent problems were pointed out.

Nope, you fucked that up completely. Any properly implemented voip system falls back to the PSTN fuckwit.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: question about Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4432033dfbb21e86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 1:17 pm
From: nospam256k@yahoo.com

Every Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes mailing always describes
in great detail and fanfare about how PCH will show up at the winner's
residence with a TV crew and present the winner with a big check.

Does this mean that people who have a post office box address would
not be eligible to win?

I haven't noticed any mention in the rules about post office box
addresses, but do you know of anyone with a post office box address
who has won a Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: you win 1000dallers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/63d86b5cb6e04c8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 3:45 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Mar 29, 3:40 am, jill <kath ...@gmail.com> wrote:
> you win 1000dallers
> life is the first gift
> love is the second
> understanding is the third
> you chatting with me
> *************************************************h
^You deposit 1000 dallars my paypal account. My BSing you. You BSing
me.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 16 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:17 am
From: Harry Katuure

On 29 Mar, 15:12, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> "News reader" <dont-even-bot...@blank.net> wrote in message
>
> news:5sOdnYGPRoQh2nPanZ2dnUVZ_oGjnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> > Runge11 wrote:
> >> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the world.
> >> Take a mirror and look at yourself.
>
> > Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from
> > becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated.
>
> Which Hebrews did you save?
>
> The European ones were dead and the ones who made it to the Middle East
> managed to save themselves quite effectively with Czech arms.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.

...but they did save the Saudi dictatorship and the Saudi oil
wells....oh, and the Shah of Iran when it suited them....

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:26 am
From: "Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller"

"News reader" <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote in message
news:5sOdnYGPRoQh2nPanZ2dnUVZ_oGjnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Runge11 wrote:
>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the world.
>> Take a mirror and look at yourself.
>>
> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from
> becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated. We freed
> the Afgans from the Taliban and Al-Queda. We took out the cruel dictator
> from Iraq. But we only get criticized for the 'misery and death' that we
> cause. In my opinion the U.S. should remind the world exactly what good we
> do, by backing out of world affairs for a bit, and then watch the world go
> to hell in a hand basket. And then say "I told you so." when the world
> insists that we start helping again.

LOL. Yanks are cowards and laughed at. If it weren't for the Europeans, they
would not even exist. I'm sorry to be so cruel, but, honestly, the rest of
the world just doesn't see things they same way. Most of us feel that a weak
nation got lucky that's all.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:31 am
From: "Col"

Why don't you 'take out' Mugabe, then?
--
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 9:27 am
From: "Ophelia"

Col wrote:
> "News reader" <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote in message
> news:5sOdnYGPRoQh2nPanZ2dnUVZ_oGjnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Runge11 wrote:
>>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the
>>> world. Take a mirror and look at yourself.
>>>
>> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from
>> becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated. We
>> freed the Afgans from the Taliban and Al-Queda. We took out the
>> cruel dictator from Iraq. But we only get criticized for the 'misery
>> and death' that we cause. In my opinion the U.S. should remind the
>> world exactly what good we do, by backing out of world affairs for a
>> bit, and then watch the world go to hell in a hand basket. And then
>> say "I told you so." when the world insists that we start helping
>> again.
>
> Why don't you 'take out' Mugabe, then?

Hehe.... don't ya know there is no oil?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 10:31 am
From: "Col"

"Ophelia" <O@nix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6579bqF2e9k5iU2@mid.individual.net...
> Col wrote:
>> "News reader" <dont-even-bother@blank.net> wrote in message
>> news:5sOdnYGPRoQh2nPanZ2dnUVZ_oGjnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Runge11 wrote:
>>>> yes, forgetting what your own country is doing to the rest of the
>>>> world. Take a mirror and look at yourself.
>>>>
>>> Yeah the U.S. doesn't help the world out at all. We saved France from
>>> becoming Germany. We saved the Hebrews from becoming eradicated. We
>>> freed the Afgans from the Taliban and Al-Queda. We took out the
>>> cruel dictator from Iraq. But we only get criticized for the 'misery
>>> and death' that we cause. In my opinion the U.S. should remind the
>>> world exactly what good we do, by backing out of world affairs for a
>>> bit, and then watch the world go to hell in a hand basket. And then
>>> say "I told you so." when the world insists that we start helping
>>> again.
>>
>> Why don't you 'take out' Mugabe, then?
>
> Hehe.... don't ya know there is no oil?

It was in fact a rhetorical question :)
--
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:19 am
From: "Bill"

"ransley" wrote in message
>
> If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
> valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp
> let the tank fill, the sun will heat it fast
>

Actually for the summer, I am thinking about running a bunch of plastic
pipes in my attic which gets to be very hot. Plastic because I will need to
drain it each fall to prevent the pipes from freezing.

Also with this idea, I am thinking of installing another insulated water
tank and using a solar powered pump to circulate water slowly from the
insulated tank through the attic pipes and back to the insulated tank.

My city water is very cold year round. In the summer I would run it through
the tank by the woodstove first and this would help to cool the living room
(when using hot water) and bring the water up to room temperature. Then on
to the attic/insulated tank, then on to the electric water heater.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:24 pm
From: "Lou"

"Pat" <groups@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message
news:37a8f1a3-a471-43b3-a227-7b78cb81153b@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Two things. Yes, the heat "lost" by the tank is gained by the room.
> So you are saving something but not as much as you imaging.
>
> Second, most of your heat isn't from heating cool water, it's from
> holding it at temp when no one is using it. You still haven't
> addessed that issue.

I doubt that second issue. Depending on the insulation, of course, a hot
water tank will hold heat for hours/days. While I don't doubt that standby
losses are an issue, I don't think that under conditions of normal family
use standby losses are greater than the energy it takes to heat the water in
the first place.

Do you have any figures, citations, sites to back up that statement?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 11:39 am
From: Neon John

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:19:16 -0700, "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"ransley" wrote in message
>>
>> If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
>> valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp
>> let the tank fill, the sun will heat it fast
>>
>
>Actually for the summer, I am thinking about running a bunch of plastic
>pipes in my attic which gets to be very hot. Plastic because I will need to
>drain it each fall to prevent the pipes from freezing.

You'd probably be dollars ahead to simply get that heat out of your attic and reduce
the load on your AC.
>
>Also with this idea, I am thinking of installing another insulated water
>tank and using a solar powered pump to circulate water slowly from the
>insulated tank through the attic pipes and back to the insulated tank.

Why would you waste money on an under-powered and over-priced solar pump that quits
working when the sun goes behind a cloud when a conventional pump works so well and
draws so little power?

Solar water heat from the roof works well but generally, the tubing itself needs to
be exposed to the solar radiation. Radiative energy transfer is much more effective
than convective in this situation.

I did a similar system on my restaurant's flat tar roof. I simply laid several
hundred feet of direct burial black PVC pipe directly onto the tar. I tried
industrial black garden hose before that but it wasn't sufficiently UV-resistant to
last very long.

On bright sunny days, the water would almost boil. In all cases when the sun was
shining, this system made all the hot water the restaurant needed. There was a
NG-fired tankless heater for other times, of course. This system used no tank and no
fancy plumbing. City water went in one end of the tubing and hot water came out the
other. A three-way valve let me quickly switch the solar heater in and out as
needed. All manual control which was good enough.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 11:41 am
From: Neon John

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:24:11 -0500, "Lou" <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote:

>I doubt that second issue. Depending on the insulation, of course, a hot
>water tank will hold heat for hours/days. While I don't doubt that standby
>losses are an issue, I don't think that under conditions of normal family
>use standby losses are greater than the energy it takes to heat the water in
>the first place.

More importantly, if the water heater is in habitable spaces then during the heating
season, lost heat isn't wasted. It simply contributes to space heating. The
opposite is true in summer, of course. If the water heater is in a closet, then one
can arrange some clever venting to conduct the heat directly to the attic and outside
during cooling season.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:30 am
From: Ant

On 3/29/2008 5:51 AM PT, Bert Hyman typed:

> In news:20080328223451.435$Qn@newsreader.com jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV Converter
>> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008. $28/bo
>
> https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
>
> 11. Can coupons be sold?
>
> No. It is illegal to sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.
>
> Good luck.

Turn the spammer in to abuse@newsreader.com and Yahoo!'s abuse
department. :P
--
"Since the world began, we have never exterminated. We probably shall
never exterminate as much as one single insect species. If there was
ever an example of an insect we cannot destroy, the fire ant is it."
--an entomologist quote mentioned by Leonard Nimoy on In The Search Of:
Deadly Ants (1978)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net

\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 19usd sell nike shoes (air max 87 90 95 nike shox tn nz r3 r4 ltd air
jordan ) Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1aeefce6d4b98a4a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:43 am
From: xiaobb20@gmail.com

19usd sell nike shoes (air max 87 90 95 nike shox tn nz r3 r4 ltd air
jordan ) Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!
http://www.clothserver-yhnetstore.cn

Yhnetstore Co.,LTD greets and desires of success and wishes you
happy times.
This is professional export company from china who carry PAYPAL
payment and DROPSHIP .
We greated in 2007 year ,and now we become the one of best supplier
here because of we keep our credit standing .
Pls visit our site if u are interest in any products below ,
www.clothserver-yhnetstore.cn

Our main products :
Fashion shoes:
Air Jordan , Air force , Air max , Shox , Dunk , Adidas , Puma ,
Prada , Chanel , Gucci , Lacoste , LouisVuiton and more .
Fashion Hoodies&T-Shirt&Jeans&Jacket:
Gino Green Globa , Bape , BBC , Evsiu , Juicy couture , Burberry , 10
Deep , LRG , ED Hardy , Chanel , G-Star , Red monkey , lacoste ,
POLO,
Armani ,Replay , Tommy and more.
Fashion bags:
LouisVuiton , Pada , Chanel , Fendi , Versace , Burberry , MIUMIU ,
Y-3 , Gucci ,Chloe , Guess , Juicy and more
Electronic :
IPOD NANO ,
Features:
1) All Package are original ,coming with guarantee cards
2) Main Market : U.S.A . U.K ,ITALY , EURO COUNTRY ,
AUSTRALIA
3) Ship Company : DHL , TNT , UPS , SODIEX , EMS
4) Payment Method : PAYPAL , WESTERN UNION ,T/T .
5) Custom : We carry the custom clear and promise items
must be arrive .
Thanks for your reading , pls mail us if u have any problem
with
the business . We hope that will make a long&great business with you
in future.

Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: learn chinese kongfu is so easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!click :www.kungfuer.
com/
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f642ad84c79b6d89?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:43 am
From: yingyu516@gmail.com

Wushu is the history of the Chinese nation in the long-term evolution
of the process of continuous creation and gradually formed a sport.
Learn chinese kung fu is so easy! click :www.kungfuer.com/
In the primitive society, animal and few people and the natural
environment is very bad, "of natural selection and survival of the
fittest" grim struggle, the people naturally had a kicking, punching
means grasping palm strike, jumping and rolling a junior offensive and
defensive category means. Then gradually learned how to manufacture
and use of stone or wooden tools as weapons, and produced some fitness
equipment and the use of the fight against hunting skills, and this is
the seeds of martial arts.
Learn chinese kung fu is so easy! click :www.kungfuer.com/
From the existing archaeological discoveries, we can see that in the
Paleolithic, there has been a sharp-shaped stone, stone ball, stone
hand axe, bone Kok processing spear, and by the end of the Neolithic
Age, there were a large number of stone axes and Stone spade, stone
knives and bone of Harpoon, Jianzu, and even copper axe, such as
copper ax. These primitive tools and weapons, but most of the
predecessor of a martial arts equipment.
The end of primitive society, tribal wars have occurred frequently,
and further promote the development of the martial arts. In the tribal
war, far used arrows, throwing for the past used sticks, Daofu,
spears, fighting all can be used to catch any flying production tools
have become combatants weapons. According to historical records
recorded during the three Miao Yu many tribal rebels, the Zhengfa
repeatedly failed to shoot them down. Later, Yu stop attacks, and to
shield soldiers Chifu to drilling, three tribal Miao people see the
"1000 Qi Dance" to show strong force, the three tribes from seedlings
succumbed. This is a grand primitive society of martial arts self-
defense drills. The ancient "Wuwu" Wushu later laid the foundation for
the formation.
Research on the fundamental basis for martial arts. In the long
historical process, the different periods of martial arts concept of
the different expression, it is the connotation and extension of the
historical development of the community itself and the development of
martial arts development and change.
From a historical perspective, there are many vested in the name of
martial arts category, at the Spring and Autumn "combative" a soldier
skills); Han emergence of the "skills", and by extension to the end of
Ming Dynasty: Qing Dynasty and Southern Dynasties borrowed " Selected
Works, "" Yan closed Martial Arts "(then refers to the military),"
martial arts "; said in the" Martial Arts ": After the founding of new
China was still" martial arts ".
Learn chinese kung fu is so easy! click :www.kungfuer.com/
With the history of changes in the gradual demise of cold weapons,
martial arts equipment for the production and movement of the large
number of armed boxing there, confrontational, Wushu race rules,
develop, martial arts has evolved into one of the sport. Wushu sport
of its content, form and training methods have undergone great
changes, reflecting the concept of things essential attribute is also
changing. Development Today, Wulin basic definition can be summarized
as: Wushu is combative as the main content, and to catch bucket
Routine forms of exercise on Nawaijianxiu traditional Chinese sports.
From this starting to understand the definition of martial arts.
First, the traditional Chinese martial arts are combative with. It is
kicking, beating, throw, take. Instead, gill movements, such as
combative as the main content, or through the help of fitness
equipment, physical sport performance of the offensive and defensive
fighting capacity. Whether the catch bucket is confrontational
campaign, or potential movement of potential complementary movement,
has been China's traditional method of attack the core technology of
chess. On human social life, combative it is impossible for China
unique in the world. Comparison of the rest of the world in the art of
attack and defense, martial arts, not only in a more combative
approach rich (such as fast wrestling, grappling law, etc.). Movement
in the form of both routines, while others are scattered in hand, the
combination of both, is separated, this model also迥然different from the
rest of the world of combative. In the drill-oriented methods
Nawaijianxiu, exercise style ask God-compassionate, all reflect the
traditional Chinese art of attack and defense characteristics of the
movement.
Learn chinese kung fu is so easy! click :www.kungfuer.com/
Secondly, the martial arts is sports, it clearly distinguishes it from
the practical people injured and maimed combative techniques. Routine
movement despite contains rich combative approach, but its purpose is
to drill through to the physical and businessmen offensive and
defensive capacity, ability and skills contest, the technical
requirements and practical techniques to a certain extent of the
difference between the movement Sanshou technology is of course much
closer to the South practical skills, but because of the competition
rules, also has its limitations in the sports movement within the
technology. In short in a nutshell, martial arts sports properties
with a clear, and sports is the main social philosophy and martial
arts, medicine, ethics, military studies, aesthetic, Qigong and other
traditional culture of thinking and cultural values, focus on
Nawaijianxiu, such as whole concept, the concept of yin and yang
changes, the shape of God, gas theory, movement, said rigid flexible,
and so on, and gradually formed a unique national style of marartial
arts and cultural system. It has rich connotations and suggest a deep,
we have the human sports physical fitness a common feature, but also
has the unique oriental civilization philosophical, scientific and
artistic, more concentrated expression of the Chinese people in sports
wisdom in the field of crystallization. It reflects one aspect of the
cultural splendor of the Orient. Therefore, in a broad sense,
understanding, Wushu is not only a sport, and is a national sports and
the Chinese people's long-term accumulated to a valuable cultural
heritage.

Learn chinese kung fu is so easy! click :www.kungfuer.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/be8be1b6674b97f4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 7:49 am
From: Harry Katuure

susi40...@googlemail.com wrote:

> fluege stuttgart london flug wien london billigfluege von berlin nach
> london flug von london flug friedrichshafen london billigfluege london
> fluege frankfurt london gatwick billigflug hannover london
> billigfluege london gatwick london flug hotel billig flug london
> flugreisen nach london billigflug leipzig london fluege nach london
> city flug london los angeles
>
> .
> .
> .
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> .
> .
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> http://xd03.com/fluglondon/
> .
> .
> .
> http://billig-flug-london.billig-flug-weltweit.info/
> http://billig-flug-london.billig-flug-weltweit.info/billigfluege-nach-london.html
> http://billig-flug-london.billig-flug-weltweit.info/billige-fluege-london.html
> http://billig-flug-london.billig-flug-weltweit.info/flug-london-guenstig.html
> .
> .
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> fluege von bremen nach london fluege friedrichshafen london flug
> london new york fluege london gatwick billigflieger london
> billigfluege basel london fliegen hamburg london guenstige fluege
> london guenstiger flug london billig flug berlin london fluege bremen
> london billigflug bremen london billig flug nach london billigflieger
> frankfurt london flug von frankfurt nach london flug berlin london
> billigflug salzburg london flug friedrichshafen london flugtickets
> nach london guenstig fliegen london flug von koeln nach london
> billigflug dortmund london fluege london stuttgart flug buchen london
> bilig fluege london fluege muenster london bilige fluege nach london
> billigfluege deutschland london fluege friedrichshafen london fluege
> von london gatwick billigfluege nach london stansted flug nuernberg
> london billigflug muenster london fluege von dortmund nach london
> billig flug nach london fluege london stuttgart billigflug deutschland
> london billigfluege bremen london billigflug bremen london fluege
> london guenstig flug von hannover nach london billigflug deutschland
> london flugreise nach london billig flug berlin london billigfluege
> koeln london flieger london

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:00 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Donna wrote
>>>>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote
>>>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/dining/26ninety.html?_r=1&ref=dining&oref=slogin>
>>>>> Interesting story. Our dollar stores are not that great around
>>>>> here and often carry really inferior products. I'm thinking NYC
>>>>> has more to offer.
>>>> The 99-Cents-Only stores in the Los Angeles (and other, I guess)
>>>> area carry a lot of foreign food (mostly China, but not
>>>> exclusively), a variety of name-brand sausage/hotdog products,
>>> Trouble is that those are made from surplus cats and dogs and rats.
>>>
>>>> fresh vegetables and fruits, a lot of exotic sauces (the Philippine
>>>> banana sauce was pretty bland, but wotthehell) and a nice variety
>>>> of brand-name toothpaste and deodorant as well as a lot of imported
>>>> bathroom needs and cleaning supplies. Like Fry's, you could live
>>>> in a 99-Cents-Only store :-)
>>>> http://www.99only.com/
>>>> I love those stores. The penny-a-minute long distance cards alone
>>>> are worth the price of admission.
>>> You're better off with voip.
>
>> Until your internet connection goes down. VOIP is fine for social
>> calls or for companies with offices in different countries that need
>> to call each other but I would not want my business to customer calls
>> dependent on that service.
>
> There arent likely to be too many businesses that rely on penny-a-minute long distance cards alone, cretin.
>
>
But some businesses do rely on VOIP and the inherent problems were
pointed out.Of course your idea of a business call involves talking to
your case worker.

William Souden
sales fool/racetrack bum

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:03 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Donna wrote
>>>>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote
>>>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/dining/26ninety.html?_r=1&ref=dining&oref=slogin>
>>>>> Interesting story. Our dollar stores are not that great around
>>>>> here and often carry really inferior products. I'm thinking NYC
>>>>> has more to offer.
>>>> The 99-Cents-Only stores in the Los Angeles (and other, I guess)
>>>> area carry a lot of foreign food (mostly China, but not
>>>> exclusively), a variety of name-brand sausage/hotdog products,
>>> Trouble is that those are made from surplus cats and dogs and rats.
>>>
>>>> fresh vegetables and fruits, a lot of exotic sauces (the Philippine
>>>> banana sauce was pretty bland, but wotthehell) and a nice variety
>>>> of brand-name toothpaste and deodorant as well as a lot of imported
>>>> bathroom needs and cleaning supplies. Like Fry's, you could live
>>>> in a 99-Cents-Only store :-)
>>>> http://www.99only.com/
>>>> I love those stores. The penny-a-minute long distance cards alone
>>>> are worth the price of admission.
>>> You're better off with voip.
>
>> Until your internet connection goes down.
>
> Then you just fall back to the PSTN, stupid.
>
>> VOIP is fine for social calls or for companies with offices in different countries that need to call each other but I
>> would not want my business to customer calls dependent on that service.
>
> No surprise that you ended up a race track bum.
>
>
I can afford to lose more at the track in a month than the amount you
get for your welfare stipend. You should try it it is the only place I
enjoy being around clueless people. Unfortunately I would not see you as
the turf club has dress/conduct codes but enjoy the grandstand where
people like you bet their welfare checks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale cheap Jordan XXIII bapesta adidas gucci sneakers, BBC bape af
prada sweater
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c27706d818d85256?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:02 am
From: cheapforwholesale@126.com

(WWW.cheapforwholesale.COM)| cheap lv shoes | cheap conberse shoes |
cheap guess handbag | cheap anya handbag | cheap omega gucci watches
| cheap ugg boots |cheap children shoes | cheap men's shoes men
shoes|
cheap women shoes | china nike wholesale, discount authentic nike
sneakers nike air max, nike air af1, nike dunk, nike shox...
| cheap mauri shoes|nike air max 87 shoes | AF1+Jordan4 shoes |ed
hardy cap hat| cheap new era cap hat| cheap red monkey cap hat |
versace sunglasses | prada sunglasses | dg sunglasses | burberry
sunglasses |
Nike shoes | china nike shoes | air jordan sneakers | cheap gucci
shoes | cheap prada sneakers | gucci sneakers | mix jordan sneakers |
chanel sandals | gucci sandals | dior sandals | wholesale jordan
sneakers | nike running shoes | nike stock shoes | air jordan at
whlesale price | nike shoes air jordan supplier from in china |
Lacoste Trainers | puma trainers | louis vuitton purse | prada purse
|
gucci handbags || cheap mauri shoes|nike air max 87 shoes |
AF1+Jordan4 shoes | chanel purse | coach purse | nike bas kerball
shoes
|
Nike Sneakers| cheap nike sneakers | nike shoes from china | nike
replica | copy nike sneakers | nike factory stores | nike stores
Nike wholesale - Nike shoes wholesale

(www.cheapforwholesale.com) china Wholesale Cheap Nike jordans
sneakers
Michael Jordan Shoes,Nike Jordan Basketball shoes...Jordan Shoes, Air
Jordan Sneakers , Air Jordan Wholesale All of the Air Jordan sneakers
have Nike Air in the shoes. Authentic quality Jordans Sneakers Custom
China Wholesale Jordan gucci sneakers prada gucci purse Handbag We
sale new Nike Sneakers,Air Jordan Sneakers,AIR FORCE 1S,Nike Dunks
SB,Bape Sta from nike outlets and factory stores,
www.cheapforwholesale.com

Nike wholesale - Jordan Shoes. Nike Shoes,
sport Shoes, Reebok Shoes,Running Shoes , prada chanel dior gucci
sandals,Nike Shox,Nike Flightposite ,Nike jordan Basketball shoes K1X
Chiefglider wholesale suppliers factory.
www.cheapforwholesale.com sale new Nike Sneakers,Air Jordan
Sneakers,AIR
FORCE 1S,Nike Dunks SB, Bape Sta from nike Wholesale china nike
jordans gucci prada sneakers at cheap price
www.cheapforwholesale.com

Wholesale Nike Dunk,Authentic Jordans
Wholesale,Nike Shoes Wholesale,Discount Nike Air Force 1 for
wholesale
and sale from china . china wholesale ed hardy new era red monkey cap
hat, versace prada dg burberry sunglasses china wholesale discount
cheap nike jordan gucci
prada sneakers lacoste puma trainers at china factory price.
www.cheapforwholesale.com

www.cheapforwholesale.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Punishing the frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/28a507f3067a6cb4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:14 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"cat" <catsandcanaries@nospammeowmeow.com> wrote in message
news:KGaHj.12470$6J3.8897@newsfe13.phx...
> <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
>
>>And for Lopez, her award would be minus the
>>$560,000 she received from her husband's life insurance payout and the
>>$800 in worker's compensation she receives every two weeks from Marsh
>>& McLennan.
>
>>"It's not fair," she said. "Because you got the insurance, you don't
>>get the same thing as everybody."
>
> What's not fair is that millions of families of people who have died
> tragically, but not on 9/11, don't get seven-figure bonanzas on the
> taxpayer's dime.
>

I completely agree, but it's interesting that the federal payouts were
reduced by any death benefits, so the frugal came out the same, and the
spendthrifts received a windfall, as usual.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:43 am
From: j_alik@yahoo.com

Why do homeowners expect to make money on their houses, while renters
have to spend for the domicile? It is against all the tenets in
Economy 101.

(1) There is no free lunch (including living) in U.S. or anywhere in
the world.
(2) The price of either tangible or intangible products is determined
by supply and demand.
(3) Nothing goes in one direction only in the Universe.

Contrary thinking:
(1) If buying house always makes money, why are there so many realtors
and mortgage brokers? Why are they keeping buying houses for
themselves as many as they can (because it is totally legal)?

Reverse thinking:
(1) For a house already in the market for 30 years, do you really want
to buy it (old, small, in less-favored location, high cost to fix
problems, etc.)? It will be the similar condition 30 years from now
what your new house looks like, no matter how you well-maintain it.
(2) For a homeowner who has already owned his/her house for 30 years,
would he/she really make much money after factoring in the maintenance
cost in all these years?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:47 am
From: j_alik@yahoo.com

Correction:

Contrary thinking:
(1) If buying house always makes money, why are there so many realtors
and mortgage brokers? Why AREN'T they keeping buying houses for
themselves as many as they can (because it is totally legal)?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: guenstige fluege frankfurt london fluege london billigflug duesseldorf
london fluege von duesseldorf nach london fluege zuerich london billiger
fliegen london flug koeln nach london fluege stuttgart london flug buchen
london billig fluege nach london flug memmingen london fluege paris london
flug east london fluege london duesseldorf billig fliegen frankfurt london
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c6d8e703183f0eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 8:44 am
From: gabi40026@googlemail.com

guenstige fluege frankfurt london fluege london billigflug duesseldorf
london fluege von duesseldorf nach london fluege zuerich london
billiger fliegen london flug koeln nach london fluege stuttgart london
flug buchen london billig fluege nach london flug memmingen london
fluege paris london flug east london fluege london duesseldorf billig
fliegen frankfurt london

billig flug stuttgart london billigflug zuerich london flug paris
london fluege von hamburg nach london billigflug koeln london
billigfluege london billig flug stuttgart london billigfluege muenchen
london billigfluege nach london city flug muenchen london flug und
hotel in london flug salzburg london fluege london dublin billigfluege
nach london fliegen frankfurt london billige fluege london billigflug
london stansted fliegen frankfurt london billigflug nach london fluege
von dortmund nach london flug von muenchen nach london fluege von
nuernberg nach london billigfluege berlin london fluege hamburg london
billigflug muenchen london flieger london fluege muenchen london
billigfluege nuernberg london flug london edinburgh billigflug london
gatwick flug koeln bonn london flug london edinburgh flug leipzig
london billig fluege london billigflug hannover london flug london
stansted fluege von london stansted flug east london flug dortmund
london guenstige fluege berlin london flug muc london billigflieger
frankfurt london flug berlin tegel london fliegen stuttgart london
flug berlin london gatwick billigflug muenchen london

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal term-life insurance???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50510abfe419b80f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 9:47 am
From: "Melissa"

"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
news:7393afb8-58fc-4cc9-b72e-b773ce10b8af@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 28, 2:12 pm, "Larry" <n...@none.com> wrote:
>> It's been 5 years since I had a term-life insurance on my own. At that
>> time
>> I was paying $400 per year.
>>
>> I went to work for a company, and recently found myself without a job.
>> Through the company, I paid $7.98 every week, for $100K policy. I called
>> to
>> get a quote on continuing life-insurance, they want a whopping $39.60 per
>> 1K coverage per year. It comes out to almost $4K per year.
>>
>> I thought term-insurance had dropped, after reading a recent article on
>> MSN.
>>
>> Geez, I know I'm 5 years older, but I can't afford that coverage.
>>
>> Been searching on Google, until my eyes hurt.
>>
>> Maybe someone can throw a bone to an old dog, and offer up some advice
>> for
>> a respectable, reasonable company?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Something seems screwy here Larry. I just did a Google check assuming
> 40-45 non smoker and found all kinds of rates that were around $400/
> year for $100k.

My husband got a "Select 20" from State Farm when he was 46. It's $175,000,
locked in rate of $834 per year for 20 years. They did blood work, and he's
a non-smoker.

Melissa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: china wholesale nike jordan gucci prada sneakers,wholesael chanel gucci
prada lv purse at www.globnikesneakers.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b895675f95cdabd0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 9:52 am
From: globnikesneakers@yahoo.com.cn

we ( www.globnikesneakers.com ) Wholesale Cheap Jordan Shoes,Michael
Jordan Shoes,Nike Jordan Basketball shoes, ... Jordan Shoes,Air Jordan
Sneakers,Air Jordan Wholesale All of the Air Jordan sneakers have Nike
Air in the shoes.Authentic quality Jordan Sneakers Custom Jordan
Sneakers Wholesale Jordan Sneakers gucci sneakers prada sneakers,lv
chanel coach dior prada guess fendi,miumiu handbags sneakers,shoes,t-
shirts,jeans,jackets,sunglasses,watches.We sale new Nike Sneakers,Air
Jordan Sneakers,AIR FORCE 1S,Nike Dunks SB,Bape Sta from nike outlets
and factory stores,also Nike wholesale-Jordan Shoes,sneakers
( WWW.globnikesneakers.com ) Wholesale New Air Jordan 12 Fusion,Air
Jordan 12 X Air Force 1. Wholesale New Air Jordan 12 Fusion,Air
Jordan
12 X Air Force 1
cheap Air Jordan 5 x Air Force one Fusion ( www.globnikesneakers.com )
discount Air Jordan 5 and Air Force one Fusion
Air Jordan 12 x Air Force One china online store
( www.globnikesneakers.com )

China wholesaler of cheap air jordan shoes,wholesale
jordans,wholesale jordans from china,wholesale nike jordans

Buy new jordan 23 shoes, air jordan 23 shoes,jordan xx3,nike jordan
xxiii, new air jordan 23 shoes,AJ23,jordan 23
cheap Air jordan xxiii,Jordan 23,cheap wholesale jordan 23,cheap buy
air jordan 23,cheap air jordan XX3,XXIII from china
( www.globnikesneakers.com )

cheap wholesale jordans,china wholesalers,Jordans cheap wholesale
price,buy cheap jordans,air jordan suppliers from
china( www.globnikesneakers.com )

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 11:41 am
From: "Lou"

"Sal_55" <zaman_2756@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:981f4692-d988-4bbe-a73b-0fcc6b1fcd70@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> They said the more I walked, even
> on crutches,the longer it will take the broekn bone to heal. They told
> me that if I don't use my foot at all,it should heal in about 5 weeks.
> But I've been a naughty boy, and have been walking without crutches to
> make coffee and go to the toilet.

I know crutches are inconvenient, but that's not very smart.

> Lou, since you work in the clinical trials field, can you be kind
> enough to tell me which of the companies in the UK won't mind someone
> in crutches coming to take part in their trials?
> Thanks for all the help everyone and bye.

I work in the US - I'm afraid I can't help you connect up with anyone in the
UK. In the US, companies wishing to recruit subjects for a clinical trial
advertise to the public and/or recruit physicians who practice in the field
they want to study, and those physicians in turn recruit from the patients
they see. Every trial has a list of criteria that potential subjects must
meet before they're accepted into a trial - the list is different for every
trial, but I've never seen crutches mentioned one way or the other. Check
the newspaper.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 19 usd sell nike shoes (air max 90 87 shox nz tn ltd air jordan )Your
satisfactions,Our pursuit!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/270663f0385d2db9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 10:46 am
From: xiaobb01@gmail.com

19 usd sell nike shoes (air max 90 87 shox nz tn ltd air jordan )Your
satisfactions,Our pursuit!

http://www.elecserver-yhnetstore.cn

Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to bring down the price of gas.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/315edd6257d33731?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 29 2008 12:14 pm
From: "Lou"

"Peter Bruells" <usernet@rogue.de> wrote in message
news:m2sky964i8.fsf@rogue.de...
> max <betatron@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> > In article <m23aq97uxs.fsf@rogue.de>, Peter Bruells <usernet@rogue.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> max <betatron@earthlink.net> writes:
> >>
> >> > In article <0TVFj.185793$FE.123898@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
> >> > "The Henchman" <don'taskme@iampoor.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Still cheaper now than in previous decades.
> >> >
> >> > That turns out not to be the case.
> >> >
<http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=gasoline++%22inflation+adjusted%22&btnG
> >> > =Search>
> >>
> >> Don't forget that incomes have risen. What's important isn't how much
> >> the price's in inflated adjusted dollars, but how long you have to
> >> work for it.
> >
> > i know this is going to sound coy or argumentative, but isn't "how long
> > you have to work for it" roughly equivalent to "inflation adjusted"?
>
> No, it isn't. These are seperate issues.
>
> These are numbers for Germany, but the principle's the same in the U.S.
>
> 1958: 16 Minutes work (at average income for 1 litre gasoline)
> 1960: 14 Minutes
> 1981: 4 Minutes
> 1985: 6 Minutes
> 1991: 4 Minutes
> 1997: 4 Minutes
> 1996: 4 Minutes
> 2000: 5 Minutes
> 2004: 5 Minutes

I guess the other issue is that these are purportedly average figures. For
a given individual, things might be quite different. As people mature and
gain experience, their incomes tend to rise over and above the inflation
rate (if that wasn't the case, everyone at a given company would tend to
make the same amount of money). For myself, way back when I was a youth
(1960's) I had to work somewhere around 15 minutes to buy a gallon of gas.
Today, for me it's less than the 5 minutes Peter reports.

Another wrinkle is that cars generally get better mileage than they did back
then. If I look at my time worked to buy enough gas to drive my car one
mile, today it comes to a couple of seconds, more or less. Back then, it
was more on the order of a minute.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Saturday, March 29, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

25 new messages in 16 topics - digest