Frugal Living: Dec 4, 2009

Friday, December 4, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Make Money From Home - How to Deal With Distractions
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eda8578c00e501b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 10:57 pm
From: sana

Life is full of distractions, interruptions, unexpected challenges and
needs. With the arrival of the cell phone, these distractions have
tripled. Nowadays you are constantly reachable unless you take
definite steps to control your phone and your time. Now that you are
working from home, your friends think that you are easily available to
chat, go for coffee, or help them with their home project. And you
being the nice guy or gal that you are, always say "yes." Well, not
any more. This is where you need a firm resolve to put some boundaries
around your work and separate it from these distractions. First of all
you will need the proper frame of mind. One of these is flexibility.
http://daytradenews.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gore can't take the HEAT
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:07 am
From: Zee

On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
> foxnews
>
> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti

He's human after all.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale Air Force one Shoes (www.dotradenow.com.cn)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7eb57ba731660df6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:24 am
From: guoshi

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need advice on eBook readers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4443e209fd8f2537?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 4:04 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <17oah596h53pjtf10fev7840rhkfnt10ip@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> Balvenieman <balvenieman@invalid.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >me@privacy.net wrote:
> >
> >>Been thinking abt buying and eBook reader
> > Do you mean hardware such as "Kindle", et al?
>
> Yes...... but I am looking at some of NewEgg by name of
> AsTak

Why not get a Kindle from amazon.com?

The wealth of reading material for the Kindle is incredible, plus it has
a very level of high customer satisfaction.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 11:49 am
From: Balvenieman

Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:

>The wealth of reading material for the Kindle is incredible,
I would think the quality and volume of licensed content would be
prime considerations, too. Amazon and, to a lesser extent, Google
certainly seem to have the jump on the competition in that department.
It seems reasonable to expect commercial licensees to pay for
exclusivity so that titles would be available only in their format(s).
Also, Amazon already has demonstrated that they are not actually
selling the book but, just as with software, are selling the right to
keep the book on ones device. Recently, Amazon deleted a book from
Kindle readers and refunded its price due to a licensing issue. I find
that troubling and unfair: While, in the event of copyright violation, a
"real" publisher can remove books from the distribution chain he cannot
confiscate books already sold from their owners.
--
the Balvenieman
Running on single malt in U.S.A.
USDA zone 9b

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 1:06 am
From: frater mus

Shawn Hirn wrote:

> Why not get a Kindle from amazon.com?
>
> The wealth of reading material for the Kindle is incredible, plus it has
> a very level of high customer satisfaction.

The main benefit of using the kindle is the battery-saving e-ink screen.

I use my existing gear for reading ebooks: freeware vade mecum on the
pocketPC phone and freeware FBreader on the linux-powered Eee netbook.

Neither have stellar battery life but they are sunk costs for me.

--
brother mouse
composed offline and synced later.
http://www.mousetrap.net/mouse/offline.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Middle class decimated under GW
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1896a30b1f2a0c24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 4:37 am
From: clams_casino

"But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an almost-imperceptible 1.6%
increase for the typical family."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-warren/america-without-a-middle_b_377829.html

Elizabeth Warren
December 3, 2009 10:00 AM
America Without a Middle Class

Can you imagine an America without a strong middle class? If you can,
would it still be America as we know it?

Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just plain
out of work. One in nine families can't make the minimum payment on
their credit cards. One in eight mortgages is in default or foreclosure.
One in eight Americans is on food stamps. More than 120,000 families are
filing for bankruptcy every month. The economic crisis has wiped more
than $5 trillion from pensions and savings, has left family balance
sheets upside down, and threatens to put ten million homeowners out on
the street.

Families have survived the ups and downs of economic booms and busts for
a long time, but the fall-behind during the busts has gotten worse while
the surge-ahead during the booms has stalled out. In the boom of the
1960s, for example, median family income jumped by 33% (adjusted for
inflation). But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an
almost-imperceptible 1.6% increase for the typical family. While Wall
Street executives and others who owned lots of stock celebrated how good
the recovery was for them, middle class families were left empty-handed.

The crisis facing the middle class started more than a generation ago.
Even as productivity rose, the wages of the average fully-employed male
have been flat since the 1970s.

[images, see uRL]

But core expenses kept going up. By the early 2000s, families were
spending twice as much (adjusted for inflation) on mortgages than they
did a generation ago -- for a house that was, on average, only ten
percent bigger and 25 years older. They also had to pay twice as much to
hang on to their health insurance.

To cope, millions of families put a second parent into the workforce.
But higher housing and medical costs combined with new expenses for
child care, the costs of a second car to get to work and higher taxes
combined to squeeze families even harder. Even with two incomes, they
tightened their belts. Families today spend less than they did a
generation ago on food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and other
flexible purchases -- but it hasn't been enough to save them. Today's
families have spent all their income, have spent all their savings, and
have gone into debt to pay for college, to cover serious medical
problems, and just to stay afloat a little while longer.

[images, see uRL]

Through it all, families never asked for a handout from anyone,
especially Washington. They were left to go on their own, working
harder, squeezing nickels, and taking care of themselves. But their
economic boats have been taking on water for years, and now the crisis
has swamped millions of middle class families.

The contrast with the big banks could not be sharper. While the middle
class has been caught in an economic vise, the financial industry that
was supposed to serve them has prospered at their expense. Consumer
banking -- selling debt to middle class families -- has been a gold
mine. Boring banking has given way to creative banking, and the industry
has generated tens of billions of dollars annually in fees made possible
by deceptive and dangerous terms buried in the fine print of opaque,
incomprehensible, and largely unregulated contracts.

And when various forms of this creative banking triggered economic
crisis, the banks went to Washington for a handout. All the while, top
executives kept their jobs and retained their bonuses. Even though the
tax dollars that supported the bailout came largely from middle class
families -- from people already working hard to make ends meet -- the
beneficiaries of those tax dollars are now lobbying Congress to preserve
the rules that had let those huge banks feast off the middle class.

Pundits talk about "populist rage" as a way to trivialize the anger and
fear coursing through the middle class. But they have it wrong. Families
understand with crystalline clarity that the rules they have played by
are not the same rules that govern Wall Street. They understand that no
American family is "too big to fail." They recognize that business
models have shifted and that big banks are pulling out all the stops to
squeeze families and boost revenues. They understand that their economic
security is under assault and that leaving consumer debt effectively
unregulated does not work.

Families are ready for change. According to polls, large majorities of
Americans have welcomed the Obama Administration's proposal for a new
Consumer Financial Protection Agency (CFPA). The CFPA would be
answerable to consumers -- not to banks and not to Wall Street. The
agency would have the power to end tricks-and-traps pricing and to start
leveling the playing field so that consumers have the tools they need to
compare prices and manage their money. The response of the big banks has
been to swing into action against the Agency, fighting with all their
lobbying might to keep business-as-usual. They are pulling out all the
stops to kill the agency before it is born. And if those practices crush
millions more families, who cares -- so long as the profits stay high
and the bonuses keep coming.

America today has plenty of rich and super-rich. But it has far more
families who did all the right things, but who still have no real
security. Going to college and finding a good job no longer guarantee
economic safety. Paying for a child's education and setting aside enough
for a decent retirement have become distant dreams. Tens of millions of
once-secure middle class families now live paycheck to paycheck,
watching as their debts pile up and worrying about whether a pink slip
or a bad diagnosis will send them hurtling over an economic cliff.

America without a strong middle class? Unthinkable, but the once-solid
foundation is shaking.

Elizabeth Warren is the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard and is
currently the Chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:38 am
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino wrote:
> "But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an almost-imperceptible 1.6%
> increase for the typical family."
>
>
>
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-warren/america-without-a-middle_b_377829.html
>
>
> Elizabeth Warren
> December 3, 2009 10:00 AM
> America Without a Middle Class
>
> Can you imagine an America without a strong middle class? If you can,
> would it still be America as we know it?
>
> Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just
> plain out of work. One in nine families can't make the minimum
> payment on their credit cards. One in eight mortgages is in default
> or foreclosure. One in eight Americans is on food stamps. More than
> 120,000 families are filing for bankruptcy every month. The economic
> crisis has wiped more than $5 trillion from pensions and savings, has
> left family balance sheets upside down, and threatens to put ten
> million homeowners out on the street.
>
> Families have survived the ups and downs of economic booms and busts
> for a long time, but the fall-behind during the busts has gotten
> worse while the surge-ahead during the booms has stalled out. In the
> boom of the 1960s, for example, median family income jumped by 33%
> (adjusted for inflation). But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an
> almost-imperceptible 1.6% increase for the typical family. While Wall
> Street executives and others who owned lots of stock celebrated how
> good the recovery was for them, middle class families were left
> empty-handed.
> The crisis facing the middle class started more than a generation ago.
> Even as productivity rose, the wages of the average fully-employed
> male have been flat since the 1970s.
>
> [images, see uRL]
>
> But core expenses kept going up. By the early 2000s, families were
> spending twice as much (adjusted for inflation) on mortgages than they
> did a generation ago -- for a house that was, on average, only ten
> percent bigger and 25 years older. They also had to pay twice as much
> to hang on to their health insurance.
>
> To cope, millions of families put a second parent into the workforce.
> But higher housing and medical costs combined with new expenses for
> child care, the costs of a second car to get to work and higher taxes
> combined to squeeze families even harder. Even with two incomes, they
> tightened their belts. Families today spend less than they did a
> generation ago on food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and other
> flexible purchases -- but it hasn't been enough to save them. Today's
> families have spent all their income, have spent all their savings,
> and have gone into debt to pay for college, to cover serious medical
> problems, and just to stay afloat a little while longer.
>
> [images, see uRL]
>
> Through it all, families never asked for a handout from anyone,
> especially Washington. They were left to go on their own, working
> harder, squeezing nickels, and taking care of themselves. But their
> economic boats have been taking on water for years, and now the crisis
> has swamped millions of middle class families.
>
> The contrast with the big banks could not be sharper. While the middle
> class has been caught in an economic vise, the financial industry that
> was supposed to serve them has prospered at their expense. Consumer
> banking -- selling debt to middle class families -- has been a gold
> mine. Boring banking has given way to creative banking, and the
> industry has generated tens of billions of dollars annually in fees
> made possible by deceptive and dangerous terms buried in the fine
> print of opaque, incomprehensible, and largely unregulated contracts.
>
> And when various forms of this creative banking triggered economic
> crisis, the banks went to Washington for a handout. All the while, top
> executives kept their jobs and retained their bonuses. Even though the
> tax dollars that supported the bailout came largely from middle class
> families -- from people already working hard to make ends meet -- the
> beneficiaries of those tax dollars are now lobbying Congress to
> preserve the rules that had let those huge banks feast off the middle
> class.
> Pundits talk about "populist rage" as a way to trivialize the anger
> and fear coursing through the middle class. But they have it wrong.
> Families understand with crystalline clarity that the rules they have
> played by are not the same rules that govern Wall Street. They
> understand that no American family is "too big to fail." They
> recognize that business models have shifted and that big banks are
> pulling out all the stops to squeeze families and boost revenues.
> They understand that their economic security is under assault and
> that leaving consumer debt effectively unregulated does not work.
>
> Families are ready for change. According to polls, large majorities of
> Americans have welcomed the Obama Administration's proposal for a new
> Consumer Financial Protection Agency (CFPA). The CFPA would be
> answerable to consumers -- not to banks and not to Wall Street. The
> agency would have the power to end tricks-and-traps pricing and to
> start leveling the playing field so that consumers have the tools
> they need to compare prices and manage their money. The response of
> the big banks has been to swing into action against the Agency,
> fighting with all their lobbying might to keep business-as-usual.
> They are pulling out all the stops to kill the agency before it is
> born. And if those practices crush millions more families, who cares
> -- so long as the profits stay high and the bonuses keep coming.
>
> America today has plenty of rich and super-rich. But it has far more
> families who did all the right things, but who still have no real
> security. Going to college and finding a good job no longer guarantee
> economic safety. Paying for a child's education and setting aside
> enough for a decent retirement have become distant dreams. Tens of
> millions of once-secure middle class families now live paycheck to
> paycheck, watching as their debts pile up and worrying about whether
> a pink slip or a bad diagnosis will send them hurtling over an
> economic cliff.
> America without a strong middle class? Unthinkable, but the once-solid
> foundation is shaking.

Fools ran the same line during the great depression. Turns out that the foundation was fine.

> Elizabeth Warren is the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard and
> is currently the Chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is President Obama a Nice Guy? READ AND COMMENTS ON http://
americanthinker123.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-president-obama-nice-guy.html
AMERICAN THINK TANK, AMERICAN CURRENT AFFAIRS, AMERICANS ARTICLES,
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2231076f223dfb16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 5:40 am
From: Naeem

Is President Obama a Nice Guy? READ AND COMMENTS ON
http://americanthinker123.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-president-obama-nice-guy.html
AMERICAN THINK TANK, AMERICAN CURRENT AFFAIRS, AMERICANS
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COMMENTS ON http://americanthinker123.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-president-obama-nice-guy.html
AMERICAN THINK TANK, AMERICAN CURRENT AFFAIRS, AMERICANS
ARTICLES, Is President Obama a Nice Guy? READ AND
COMMENTS ON http://americanthinker123.blogspot.com/2009/12/is-president-obama-nice-guy.html
AMERICAN THINK TANK, AMERICAN CURRENT AFFAIRS, AMERICANS
ARTICLES,

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:18 am
From: clams_casino

Naeem wrote:

>Is President Obama a Nice Guy? READ AND COMMENTS ON
>

I don't even speak Pakistani never mind read it..

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air bed leak
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9d48042b297850df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 7:24 am
From: "Lou"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:hf9mf5$c3q$1@news.datemas.de...
> Gary Heston wrote:
> > In article <hf70ih$u33$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@bex.net> wrote:
> >> My air bed mattress is leaking. Thought it was the box with the motor
> >> assembly part, but tried a new one and it still leaks. So it must be
> >> the air chamber itself. I know how to find the leak on the air
chamber,
> >> but what would I use to patch it?
> >
> > Is this a vinyl bladder type mattress? If so, a pool patch kit would
> > probably work.
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
>
> Yes. Your suggestion sounds reasonable.
>
I'd have my doubts - pool patches go on the inside of the pool, and the
pressure of the water helps hold the patch, so the patch works with the
pressure. Presumably you'll be putting the patch on the outside of the air
mattress, where the patch will have to work against the air pressure.

A bicycle tube patch might be a better choice, since these patches have to
hold against the air pressure, but I don't know if a patch designed for a
rubber tube (are they still rubber? for that matter, do bicycle tires still
have tubes?) will adhere to vinyl

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:55 am
From: "Bob F"

Lou wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
> news:hf9mf5$c3q$1@news.datemas.de...
>> Gary Heston wrote:
>>> In article <hf70ih$u33$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@bex.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> My air bed mattress is leaking. Thought it was the box with the
>>>> motor assembly part, but tried a new one and it still leaks. So
>>>> it must be the air chamber itself. I know how to find the leak on
>>>> the air chamber, but what would I use to patch it?
>>>
>>> Is this a vinyl bladder type mattress? If so, a pool patch kit would
>>> probably work.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>
>> Yes. Your suggestion sounds reasonable.
>>
> I'd have my doubts - pool patches go on the inside of the pool, and
> the pressure of the water helps hold the patch, so the patch works
> with the pressure. Presumably you'll be putting the patch on the
> outside of the air mattress, where the patch will have to work
> against the air pressure.
>
> A bicycle tube patch might be a better choice, since these patches
> have to hold against the air pressure, but I don't know if a patch
> designed for a rubber tube (are they still rubber? for that matter,
> do bicycle tires still have tubes?) will adhere to vinyl

Pool, (or air mattress) patch kits are designed for use on vinyl. Bicycle patch
kits are definitely not.

If the OP find the hole, a dab of "Aquaseal" or a good urethane caulk will
probably patch it, also.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 3:45 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

And bicycle tube partches are forced against the inside of tire by the air pressure too.

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TOPIC: guess I know where Rod will be tomorrow
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1a50101e38bacfb0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Another lie, nothing whatever to do with climategate.

sr wrote:
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018413/climategate-claims-its-first-big-political-scalp/
>
>
>
> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
> news:442d$4b184d1f$ccb58423$15294@ispn.net...
>> Looks like you have a lot on your plate, better get on it
>>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:7nqv2gF3lv6itU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Completely irrelevant to the stupid lie you posted.
>>>
>>> sr wrote:
>>>> CO2 makes plants Green, it is a good thing
>>>> =======
>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:7nq999F3mshq7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> sr wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> sr wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/news-melbourne-protest-tomorrow/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Climatescam+%28ClimateScam%29&utm_content=Twitter
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I NEVER said that I agree with those fools,
>>>>>>> JUST that that lie you posted was a lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the lie, Rod?
>>>>>
>>>>> Your original lie about RESIGNATIONS that never happened.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I only post mostly what others are now saying
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a massive hole in your 'logic' there, is it ONLY or
>>>>> MOSTLY ?
>>>>>> and than I add on:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that lie you originally posted was from some newspaper. It
>>>>> was still a
>>>>> lie and you were too stupid to check whether it was a lie before
>>>>> you posted it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I notice you make same statements on the alt.global-warming,
>>>>>
>>>>> Another lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>> just vague statements with no bases
>>>>>
>>>>> Another lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> AND I have said repeatedly that it would be completely pointless
>>>>> to close down ALL of australia's coal and natural gas fuelled
>>>>> power generation, essentially because china build more than that
>>>>> EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS. AND I have said repeatedy that if you
>>>>> believe that CO2 levels are a
>>>>> problem,
>>>>> the only thing that makes any sense what so ever is to replace
>>>>> coal fired power
>>>>> generation with nukes, and to heat using electricity from nukes,
>>>>> and stop wasting
>>>>> natural gas on heating and to save it for use in vehicles and as a
>>>>> feedstock for
>>>>> the chemical industry and do something about massive crude oil
>>>>> imports.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The healthcare bill is so bad
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:42 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Dave C. wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Dave C. wrote

>>>> The bills are total crap. Single payer Medicare for all is the ONLY
>>>> thing that will work, which is a guarantee we'll never see it in this
>>>> country. We can never do things that will work - hence Afganistan.

>>> Medicare is going to be bankrupt in a few years.

>> Fools have been claiming that for decades now.

>>> That's at current funding levels for current subscribers. If you add
>>> hundreds of millions of subscribers to medicare, nobody owns a
>>> calculator with enough digits to calculate the cost of that.

>> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health
>> care that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
>> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.

> That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave

Nope, just avoiding the cost of all those paper shuffling apes in the insurance system and
the other stuff like advertising etc thats no longer needed with a single payer system.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Dave C. wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Dave C. wrote

>>> Then you will go to prison. I wish I'd made that up.
>>> But the penalty for not being able to afford the mandatory
>>> insurance coverage is stiff fines...and jail time.

>> Another lie, just like it is with the current manditory insurance for cars.

> It's not a lie.

Corse its a lie.

> That's actually in the bill that the House passed.

Pity that aint what the CONGRESS passed, so aint law.

> If you can't afford the new mandatory health insurance,
> you will pay a fine that you also can't afford.

Another lie. There is quite explicit provision for those who cannot afford to pay.

> Or you will go to jail.

Doesnt say that either, you silly little pathological liar.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:22 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Dec 4, 12:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave C. wrote
>
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Dave C. wrote
> >>>> The bills are total crap. Single payer Medicare for all is the ONLY
> >>>> thing that will work, which is a guarantee we'll never see it in this
> >>>> country. We can never do things that will work - hence Afganistan.
> >>> Medicare is going to be bankrupt in a few years.
> >> Fools have been claiming that for decades now.
> >>> That's at current funding levels for current subscribers. If you add
> >>> hundreds of millions of subscribers to medicare, nobody owns a
> >>> calculator with enough digits to calculate the cost of that.
> >> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health
> >> care that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
> >> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.
> > That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave
>
> Nope, just avoiding the cost of all those paper shuffling apes in the insurance system and
> the other stuff like advertising etc thats no longer needed with a single payer system.

The wife of a co-worker is a doctor. He reports that she says that
insurance company
paperwork is ten times more onerous than the Medicare forms. If we
had single-payer,
privately delivered health care, doctors' offices could reduce their
staffing because they
wouldn't need so many paper pushers.

Cindy Hamilton

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:33 am
From: "h"

"Cindy Hamilton" <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:58e2419c-98d2-4451-b989-c8c298996654@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 4, 12:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave C. wrote
>
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Dave C. wrote
> >>>> The bills are total crap. Single payer Medicare for all is the ONLY
> >>>> thing that will work, which is a guarantee we'll never see it in this
> >>>> country. We can never do things that will work - hence Afganistan.
> >>> Medicare is going to be bankrupt in a few years.
> >> Fools have been claiming that for decades now.
> >>> That's at current funding levels for current subscribers. If you add
> >>> hundreds of millions of subscribers to medicare, nobody owns a
> >>> calculator with enough digits to calculate the cost of that.
> >> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health
> >> care that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
> >> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.
> > That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave
>
> Nope, just avoiding the cost of all those paper shuffling apes in the
> insurance system and
> the other stuff like advertising etc thats no longer needed with a single
> payer system.

>The wife of a co-worker is a doctor. He reports that she says that
>insurance company
>paperwork is ten times more onerous than the Medicare forms. If we
>had single-payer,
>privately delivered health care, doctors' offices could reduce their
>staffing because they
>wouldn't need so many paper pushers.

Yup. When I lived in England (as a foreign student, not a resident) I had to
see a dentist to replace a filling. His wife was the only non-medical
provider in the office and her job was to schedule appointments and file
charts. She had enough time to spare that she kept the appointments for the
GP whose office was across the hall. He didn't have ANY non-medical
providers working for him. Didn't need them. Show a card, get fixed up. She
said I was the only cash customer (since I was a non-covered foreigner)
they'd had all year, and it was November. Oh, and the filling was completed
same day I called and it cost less than the original had cost in the USA,
since I only had to pay what the National Health system pays. Yeah, single
payer makes things more expensive, right.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 11:45 am
From: zxcvbob

How bad is it? ;-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Krackpot Ray Keller gets caught in his lies, public records tell the
tale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 11:15 am
From: The Very Model of Sweetness and Light

"there was nothing exposed"

http://openleft.com/diary/16237/a-deeper-look-at-global-warming-denialist-attacks

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thrift stores - rising prices?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c91042ccabd6f95f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 11:49 am
From: Balvenieman

"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:

>Well...thrift stores, at least around here, have NEVER been targeted for the
>truly needy. The needy are GIVEN the things they require for free. This
>giving is funded by selling things in the store to the more affluent.
Well, that is true, as far as it goes.... Since the early 1970's,
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severely limited means could pick up, at least, the bare housekeeping
necessities, for almost no money. While it is true that some
organizations make in-kind contributions to the destitute (Salvation
Army and Society of St. V de P and a few church-affiliates, for
examples) those are primarily foodstuffs and baby supplies but little or
no household furnishings. Consider the irony of providing a mother with
food but not a pot in which to cook it. I've seen that happen: The
asshole do-gooder gave the woman a shopping cart nearly full of
groceries but would not give her a 50-cent pan. Go figure.
Overall, the early 1990's saw an accelerating rate of increase in
thrift store prices. In this region, Salvation Army led the way with
re-designed stores and in-store "boutiques" to appeal to appearance and
label conscious YP bargain hunters. Their success led Goodwill
Industries to follow suit. For many years the Kidney Foundation, St. V
de P, and the independents held the line but for the last four-or-five
years St. V de P stores have offered "appraisal hours" to hand-picked
"experts" who cull out the better-quality items and buy them at
undervalue for resale. Walk-in goobers get to pick through the
remainders. As distasteful as I find it to be, this practice lets the
stores ensure a decent cash flow and keep prices low on everyday items,
although, they've appreciated significantly for household furnishings
and general doo-dahs. For example, mens' collared shirts are still
$2.00, BOGO, and jeans range from $2.00-4.00, BOGO but my Nordictrak,
purchased in about '02 for $5.00, would now be $35.00-50.00, depending
on the mood of whoever priced it. By comparison, at Goodwill those same
shirts are $4.00 each and upward and jeans range from $6.77 upward,
depending on condition and ->label<-.
What I have noticed, most noticeably within the past five years, is
an increasing number of independent (private) and church-affiliated
stores simply closing down, taking their food pantries with them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rocket Science
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d1e034359733b652?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 1:39 pm
From: "Dr. Smith"

Most people don't realize that they spend hundreds or even thousands of
dollars a year buying the heavily advertised (HA) brand products in the
grocery and department stores. There is nothing in the grocery store that
is rocket science. Many of the less advertised (LA) brands or store brands
are just as good or better as the HA brands. You are paying for the
brainwashing that many HA brand manufacturers put in their advertising
campaigns. It is not difficult to make shampoos, conditioners, cleaning
products and all those other products that can be found in your local
grocery or department store. Why are you paying 4+ dollars for baby shampoo
when you can buy the less advertised brand for half the money? Do you like
wasting money? If the name brand products are better why would companies be
spending billions of dollars in advertising? The answer is that they are
not better. They are trying to convince you that the high price they are
charging is some how justified by a better product. Many times they are
using terminology that means nothing. Even over the counter drugs like
aspirin can be bought for half the price of the HA brands. This is a
product that has been around for decades. The LA products are under the
same FDA regulations as the HA brands. Save a lot of money and don't buy
the over priced HA brands.

When you pay the higher price for the HA brands you are paying for the
ridiculous high salaries of the CEO's, private jets, golden parachutes and
for the billions spent on advertising.

Every time you go to the store you can save several dollars. Over time this
can amount to a significant amount of money.

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 14 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Thrift stores - rising prices? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c91042ccabd6f95f?hl=en
* Air bed leak - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9d48042b297850df?hl=en
* The healthcare bill is so bad - 3 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
* 2009 Cheap wholesale Belt: CA Belt,Bape Belt,Armani Belt,Boss Belt,Fendi
Belt,D&G Belt,Gucci Belt... in china Paypal Payment Exempt Freight === www.
ebaychinaonline.com ===(paypal payment) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eb2047c03f5c187c?hl=en
* guess I know where Rod will be tomorrow - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1a50101e38bacfb0?hl=en
* Make Money From Home - How to Deal With Distractions - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eda8578c00e501b0?hl=en

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 4:28 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 12:33:40 -0800 (PST), Lenona <lenona321@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Recently, I heard a newscaster quote an anonymous female shopper as
>complaining that she'd been shopping in thrift stores all her life,
>but the prices were suddenly going up, apparently, because more and
>more people are using them these days.
>
>Has anyone seen evidence of that?
>
>Lenona.

My wife almost lives at thrift stores. She says prices are up, but
the patronage is down, if anything.
That's just a snapshot around here.
Maybe prices are higher because of less business?

--Vic

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 5:52 pm
From: "Bob F"

Les Cargill wrote:
> Lenona wrote:
>> Recently, I heard a newscaster quote an anonymous female shopper as
>> complaining that she'd been shopping in thrift stores all her life,
>> but the prices were suddenly going up, apparently, because more and
>> more people are using them these days.
>>
>> Has anyone seen evidence of that?
>>
>> Lenona.
>>
>
> I wonder if Craigslist has reduced the amount of stuff
> in thrift stores?

And freecycle. And "free" piles in front yards.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 7:00 pm
From: Michael Black

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009, Lenona wrote:

> Recently, I heard a newscaster quote an anonymous female shopper as
> complaining that she'd been shopping in thrift stores all her life,
> but the prices were suddenly going up, apparently, because more and
> more people are using them these days.
>
> Has anyone seen evidence of that?
>
In the old days, such stores were either intended or perceived
as being for the poor, and the prices reflected that.

The "clients" have probably shifted to people with more money,
and so yes, they raise the prices. The more they can take in,
the more they have for whatever projects are funded by the store.

So long as their customers were poor, then they'd keep the prizes
low, but once that changed, they realized they could raise
prices and thus increase revenue, to match increases in expenses.
The food banks here are saying that demand is up, yet donations
are down, so any fundraising is likely to try to bring in more
money.

They may have things fixed so someone without money can get
things for free or low cost.

Another issue may be that too many people are going into such
stores, buying cheap and then turning around and selling it
elsewhere for a profit. I know it's been talked about, and I
know I saw four people with barcode readers at the largest
used book sale here in October, just rifling through the books
and pulling the things they can make lots of money on. They
don't even need to know what the book is or anything about
its value. So if that is happening, it's not much of a surprise
that the groups are raising prices, why not make more profit
when others are making more profit off the sale?

I do get the impression (and it's subjective) that many of
the used book sales here are trying to be selective in what
they take, I definitely noticed it with some community group
rummage sales. They find it's too much work otherwise, they
have to deal with all the donations in the first place, and
then often have to deal with it after the sale. People donate
broken things, and they donate obscure items, and in both
cases it requires someone with the right interest to come
by and want it. So they get selective and then feel they
can raise prices, since they have done some of the work
of the resellers. If find this a not so great situation,
despite a first hand experience with all that gets left
over, because it is the odd and obscure items that make
me want to go to used book and rummage sales, and while
I do buy bestsellers at used book sales, the majority of
books I bring home are more obscure, and I'm finding I
am bringing home less (presumably because the book
sales are getting selective).

Michael

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 7:48 pm
From: "h"

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0912032151120.601@darkstar.example.net...
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2009, Lenona wrote:
>
>> Recently, I heard a newscaster quote an anonymous female shopper as
>> complaining that she'd been shopping in thrift stores all her life,
>> but the prices were suddenly going up, apparently, because more and
>> more people are using them these days.
>>
>> Has anyone seen evidence of that?
>>
> In the old days, such stores were either intended or perceived
> as being for the poor, and the prices reflected that.
>
> The "clients" have probably shifted to people with more money,
> and so yes, they raise the prices. The more they can take in,
> the more they have for whatever projects are funded by the store.
>
> So long as their customers were poor, then they'd keep the prizes
> low, but once that changed, they realized they could raise
> prices and thus increase revenue, to match increases in expenses.
> The food banks here are saying that demand is up, yet donations
> are down, so any fundraising is likely to try to bring in more
> money.
>
> They may have things fixed so someone without money can get
> things for free or low cost.
>
> Another issue may be that too many people are going into such
> stores, buying cheap and then turning around and selling it
> elsewhere for a profit. I know it's been talked about, and I
> know I saw four people with barcode readers at the largest
> used book sale here in October, just rifling through the books
> and pulling the things they can make lots of money on. They
> don't even need to know what the book is or anything about
> its value. So if that is happening, it's not much of a surprise
> that the groups are raising prices, why not make more profit
> when others are making more profit off the sale?
>
> I do get the impression (and it's subjective) that many of
> the used book sales here are trying to be selective in what
> they take, I definitely noticed it with some community group
> rummage sales. They find it's too much work otherwise, they
> have to deal with all the donations in the first place, and
> then often have to deal with it after the sale. People donate
> broken things, and they donate obscure items, and in both
> cases it requires someone with the right interest to come
> by and want it. So they get selective and then feel they
> can raise prices, since they have done some of the work
> of the resellers. If find this a not so great situation,
> despite a first hand experience with all that gets left
> over, because it is the odd and obscure items that make
> me want to go to used book and rummage sales, and while
> I do buy bestsellers at used book sales, the majority of
> books I bring home are more obscure, and I'm finding I
> am bringing home less (presumably because the book
> sales are getting selective).
>
> Michael
>

Well...thrift stores, at least around here, have NEVER been targeted for the
truly needy. The needy are GIVEN the things they require for free. This
giving is funded by selling things in the store to the more affluent.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 4:51 pm
From: Marsha

Gary Heston wrote:
> In article <hf70ih$u33$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@bex.net> wrote:
>> My air bed mattress is leaking. Thought it was the box with the motor
>> assembly part, but tried a new one and it still leaks. So it must be
>> the air chamber itself. I know how to find the leak on the air chamber,
>> but what would I use to patch it?
>
> Is this a vinyl bladder type mattress? If so, a pool patch kit would
> probably work.
>
>
> Gary
>

Yes. Your suggestion sounds reasonable.

Marsha

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 4:54 pm
From: Marsha

Gordon wrote:
> Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote in news:hf70ih$u33$1@news.datemas.de:
>
>> My air bed mattress is leaking. Thought it was the box with the motor
>> assembly part, but tried a new one and it still leaks. So it must be
>> the air chamber itself. I know how to find the leak on the air chamber,
>> but what would I use to patch it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marsha
>
> I sucsessfuly patched a pin hole leak in an air matress with scotch tape.
> Just be sure to burnish it down real good to get a good seal.

At first, the deflation was intermittent. Now it's constant and
relatively quick, so I'm assuming the "hole" is getting larger.

Marsha

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 7:21 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <hf9mf5$c3q$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@bex.net> wrote:
>Gary Heston wrote:
>> In article <hf70ih$u33$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@bex.net> wrote:
>>> My air bed mattress is leaking. Thought it was the box with the motor
>>> assembly part, but tried a new one and it still leaks. So it must be
>>> the air chamber itself. I know how to find the leak on the air chamber,
>>> but what would I use to patch it?

>> Is this a vinyl bladder type mattress? If so, a pool patch kit would
>> probably work.

>Yes. Your suggestion sounds reasonable.

Pool patch kits are useful for several things. I had a co-worker many
years ago who owned a 25 or 26 foot cabin cruiser. It cracked along the
base of the stern, where it joined the back of the hull. He applied a
pool patch on it at my suggestion, and stopped the leak until he could
get it repaired by the local boatyard. The repair guy got a good chuckle
when he saw it, but acknowledged that it did work.

Finding unconventional applications for things can be fun...

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Where large, expensive pieces of exotic woods are converted to valueless,
hard to dispose of sawdust, chips and scraps." Charlie B.s' definition of
woodworking.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 9:14 pm
From: "h"

"Gary Heston" <gheston@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:TZidnecUxt64HYXWnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@posted.hiwaay2...

>
> Finding unconventional applications for things can be fun...
>
Oh yeah. The big box guys are used to me standing in various aisles and just
staring at things. They used to ask if they could help, but by now they all
know I'm just there trying to figure out how to solve the weird build
(theatrical/portable/floatable/flyable, etc.) assignment of the day. I
usually end up having to hit the real hardware store for a lot of the parts,
but the big box has so much of everything that simply staring at it for
awhile will usually spark a solution. Or at least a concept of how to begin!
I especially like to start in a "non-obvious" place for out of the box
thinking.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 5:30 am
From: "Dave C."

> > Then you will go to prison. I wish I'd made that up. But the
> > penalty for not being able to afford the mandatory insurance
> > coverage is stiff fines...and jail time.
>
> Another lie, just like it is with the current manditory insurance for
> cars.
>
>

It's not a lie. That's actually in the bill that the House passed. If
you can't afford the new mandatory health insurance, you will pay a
fine that you also can't afford. Or you will go to jail. -Dave

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 5:32 am
From: "Dave C."

> >
> > Then you will go to prison. I wish I'd made that up. But the
> > penalty for not being able to afford the mandatory insurance
> > coverage is stiff fines...and jail time.
>
> Paranoid much? The actual proposals read pretty much like the MA
> current laws, and under those (I don't live in MA) I would NOT have
> to buy insurance. Even those who fail to buy it and can "afford
> it" (according to the state) only pay a tax of less than $800 year.
> Jail time, are you insane? PLONK!

You're asking me if I'm insane? I didn't write the bill, and I didn't
vote on it. I'm just informing you about some of what's in it. And
what's in it is definitely insane. But it does you no good to call me
insane for pointing out that the bill is insane. -Dave

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 5:35 am
From: "Dave C."

>
> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health care
> that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.

That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave

==============================================================================
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www.ebaychinaonline.com ===(paypal payment)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eb2047c03f5c187c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 6:49 pm
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 3 2009 7:30 pm
From: "sr"

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018413/climategate-claims-its-first-big-political-scalp/

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:442d$4b184d1f$ccb58423$15294@ispn.net...
> Looks like you have a lot on your plate, better get on it
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7nqv2gF3lv6itU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Completely irrelevant to the stupid lie you posted.
>>
>> sr wrote:
>>> CO2 makes plants Green, it is a good thing
>>> =======
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7nq999F3mshq7U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> sr wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> sr wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>> http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/news-melbourne-protest-tomorrow/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Climatescam+%28ClimateScam%29&utm_content=Twitter
>>>>
>>>>>> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>>>>
>>>>>> I NEVER said that I agree with those fools,
>>>>>> JUST that that lie you posted was a lie.
>>>>
>>>>> What is the lie, Rod?
>>>>
>>>> Your original lie about RESIGNATIONS that never happened.
>>>>
>>>>> I only post mostly what others are now saying
>>>>
>>>> There's a massive hole in your 'logic' there, is it ONLY or MOSTLY ?
>>>>
>>>>> and than I add on:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that lie you originally posted was from some newspaper. It was
>>>> still a
>>>> lie and you were too stupid to check whether it was a lie before you
>>>> posted it.
>>>>
>>>>> I notice you make same statements on the alt.global-warming,
>>>>
>>>> Another lie.
>>>>
>>>>> just vague statements with no bases
>>>>
>>>> Another lie.
>>>>
>>>> AND I have said repeatedly that it would be completely pointless to
>>>> close down ALL of australia's coal and natural gas fuelled power
>>>> generation, essentially because china build more than that EVERY
>>>> COUPLE OF MONTHS. AND I have said repeatedy that if you believe that
>>>> CO2 levels are a
>>>> problem,
>>>> the only thing that makes any sense what so ever is to replace coal
>>>> fired power
>>>> generation with nukes, and to heat using electricity from nukes, and
>>>> stop wasting
>>>> natural gas on heating and to save it for use in vehicles and as a
>>>> feedstock for
>>>> the chemical industry and do something about massive crude oil
>>>> imports.
>>
>>
>
>