Frugal Living: Dec 8, 2009

Tuesday, December 8, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Premiums vs Tax Increases
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d768f2a2bc413b74?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 10:43 am
From: "Jim Jones"

Napoleon wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:03 -0500, "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:
>
>> If your family is fortunate enough to make $102,100 a year,
>> Pelosi-Care will hit you with a $15,000 premium plus an estimated
>> $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of what you earn!
>> If you earn $44,000 before taxes and buy your own insurance you'll
>> pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket
>> expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, that's 17% of your income!
>
> How many people think their taxes will go up so high that they will be
> paying the amount per year that is stated above, if single-payer
> nationalized health care is passed?
>
> They won't. Not even close. Do you even think your taxes will increase
> by 20K (for upper income earners) and 7K (for lower income earners)
> per year to pay for Medicare for All? They won't. It'll be so much
> less, plus NO MORE MEDICAL BILLS on top of the insurance premiums.
>
> That's why we will NEVER have single payer nationalized health care
> like the entire civilized world, because Americans are too stupid to
> realize how much we'd save in our individual lives. All Americans care
> about is NO NEW TAXES!

Have fun explaining how americans got medicare and social security.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 10:33 pm
From: "Dave C."

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:46:58 -0500
Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:03 -0500, "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:
>
> >If your family is fortunate enough to make $102,100 a year,
> >Pelosi-Care will hit you with a $15,000 premium plus an estimated
> >$5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of what you earn!
> >If you earn $44,000 before taxes and buy your own insurance you'll
> >pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket
> >expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, that's 17% of your income!
>
> How many people think their taxes will go up so high that they will be
> paying the amount per year that is stated above, if single-payer
> nationalized health care is passed?

I'd say they are optimistic. The top earners in this country could be
in a 70% tax bracket soon. It's getting so bad in this country that we
are starting to lean toward that old joke about the simplified tax form:
Line 1: How much did you make last year?
Line 2: Send it in!

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 3:14 pm
From: jeff

sr wrote:
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions
> like I said, rationing for people over 50. out of MD

You appear to believe every opinion that you agree with.

The bill is online, quote it or assume irrelevance.

Where were you when Bush pushed through that unfunded Medicare Drug
Bill giveaway? Seems to me you are just picking sides without actually
doing any real looking into the facts and substance.

I see this all the time. Someone I knew heard (on talk radio) that
Bush had created 90k jobs a month and believed it. The stats aren't hard
to find and the real figure is 19K/month and that's not taking away the
jobs lost in the months after he left. You guys are really faith based.

Jeff
>
> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
> news:138c6$4b1d6505$ccb58426$14320@ispn.net...
>> Medicare cut, Homecare cut, People after age of 50 ration care.
>> I'll have more for you -
>> I have to read the UK papers to see what is going on here since
>> the main steam media is in bed with this ADM, so we aren't getting
>> the News
>> I'll have more for you to think about
>>
>>
>
>

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 5:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Dave C. wrote
> sr <solos42@uninets.net> wrote

>> If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified
>> plan when you file your taxes, you'll be charged with
>> a felony and hit with thousands of dollars in fines.

>> Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure
>> that illegal immigrants are exempt from this law.

> While that's technically true, the plan is blanket amnesty
> after the health care reform is passed. In other words,
> there will be no such thing as an illegal immigrant soon.

Another lie.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Indoor diy barbeques
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c79a680d8ecce233?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 11:02 am
From: "Dave Bugg"

sam coleridge wrote:

> <ranck@vt.edu> wrote in message news:hfjga5$5i8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu...
>> On the other hand, since the OP has not clarified what he's talking
>> about, it may have just been a drive-by trolling.

> because the topic might seem unsual or 'off the wall' to you Bill,
> its still not very nice to be so readily accused of trolling

Sam, you weren't either 'readily' or 'accused' of doing a troll. It was
mentioned as being among a list of possibilities for a post to which you
would not further clarify when concerns about carbon monoxide was raised.

It IS one method of operation for a troll to drop a controversial topic into
usenet and leave it there for the masses to wrestle with.
--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.world2015.org
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/59ebdac2f1b59ba2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 11:27 am
From: "www.world2015.org"

• Human Race Creation,
Primeval Persons,
Civilizations, Aristocracy &
Democracy
What Next?...
WORLD2015.ORG
World2015.org:
• No money, No Power, No Politics, No Castes, No Religions,
Human Beings are one. Whole world is One. God is one.
• Free world. Everything is free etc..,
• New Society . Equivalent Society.
• Let us establish free world. Please co-operate.
FREE REGISTRATION
FREE MEMBERSHIP
In
WWW.WORLD2015.ORG

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gore can't take the HEAT
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 2:51 pm
From: jeff

sr wrote:
> That's the point Mother Nature, not man

Which has absolutely zippo to do with man made CO2 warming.

Even Rush's whacko admits that. Do you think that mother nature added
all that CO2?

The remarkable thing about George W Bush and Republicans in general
is that ignorance of doing anything other than kicking the can down the
road. Why all the fear of actually tackling a problem? Your "solution:"
seems to be wait eons for mother nature to exterminate man and fix the
problem.

Jeff

> "RickMerrill" <RM@spamless.com> wrote in message
> news:hfe1e6$psp$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> sr wrote:
>>> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
>>> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>> Zee wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>>>> foxnews
>>>>>>
>>>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>>>> He's human after all.
>>>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>>>
>>>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>>>
>>>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth is
>>>> cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino temperature
>>>> spike.
>>>>
>>>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
>>>> are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
>>>> positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>>>
>>>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>>>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of
>>>> natural climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive
>>>> (high climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be
>>>> catastrophic.
>>>>
>>>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
>>>> evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse
>>>> than Al Gore has said.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>> Cretaceous Period
>>> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their current
>>> positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South America
>>> and Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A circum-equatorial
>>> sea, Tethys, forms between the continents of the Northern and Southern
>>> Hemisphere. The westward movement of North America forms the ancestral
>>> Rocky Mountains and the ancestral Sierra Nevada. Sea levels rise,
>>> submerging about 30% of the Earth's present land surface.
>>> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>>>
>>> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that the
>>> oceans covered the west coast?
>>> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in
>>> the rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
>>> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise.
>>> And,
>> You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has risen?!
>>
>>
>>
>>> it wasn't man's
>>> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do with
>>> global warming nor oceans rising, it
>>> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say
>>> anything you wish, that is one reason
>>> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
>>> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
>>> problem for the Left, lately.
>>>
>

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 2:58 pm
From: jeff

sr wrote:
> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
> news:8143a$4b18436d$ccb58423$25174@ispn.net...
>> foxnews
>>
>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagen
>
>> Michigan sees record snow...
> DC Under Winter Weather Advisory...
>
> Al Gore could not be reached for comment

Such a simple minded ignorance of global average temperatures. The
earth is warming more at the poles and jet stream and weather patterns
are changing because of that. Did you really think that everywhere was
going to be .1 degree warmer than last year?

This will be the earths warmest year in recent history.

Jeff
>
>
>

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 7:38 pm
From: "sr"

"jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hfmlmh$k92$1@news.albasani.net...
> sr wrote:
>> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
>> news:8143a$4b18436d$ccb58423$25174@ispn.net...
>>> foxnews
>>>
>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagen
>>
>>> Michigan sees record snow...
>> DC Under Winter Weather Advisory...
>>
>> Al Gore could not be reached for comment
>
> Such a simple minded ignorance of global average temperatures. The earth
> is warming more at the poles and jet stream and weather patterns are
> changing because of that. Did you really think that everywhere was going
> to be .1 degree warmer than last year?
>
> This will be the earths warmest year in recent history.
>
Jeff
=========
your eyes must be Brown, and you are a dummy, I've lived through 4 of this
climate Hoaxes
Look up the one in the mid 70s that was the ice age, Science Mag was the
biggest promoter, and Newsweek

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 7:39 pm
From: "sr"

Bush didn't for the fraud.
Obama the manchild has
"jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hfml9u$jo0$1@news.albasani.net...
> sr wrote:
>> That's the point Mother Nature, not man
>
> Which has absolutely zippo to do with man made CO2 warming.
>
> Even Rush's whacko admits that. Do you think that mother nature added
> all that CO2?
>
> The remarkable thing about George W Bush and Republicans in general is
> that ignorance of doing anything other than kicking the can down the road.
> Why all the fear of actually tackling a problem? Your "solution:" seems to
> be wait eons for mother nature to exterminate man and fix the problem.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>> "RickMerrill" <RM@spamless.com> wrote in message
>> news:hfe1e6$psp$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> sr wrote:
>>>> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>>> Zee wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> foxnews
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>>>>> He's human after all.
>>>>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>>>>
>>>>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth
>>>>> is cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino
>>>>> temperature spike.
>>>>>
>>>>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if
>>>>> there are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of)
>>>>> but a positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>>>>
>>>>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>>>>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of
>>>>> natural climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently
>>>>> positive (high climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could
>>>>> be catastrophic.
>>>>>
>>>>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read
>>>>> his evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much
>>>>> worse than Al Gore has said.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>> Cretaceous Period
>>>> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their
>>>> current positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South
>>>> America and Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A
>>>> circum-equatorial sea, Tethys, forms between the continents of the
>>>> Northern and Southern Hemisphere. The westward movement of North
>>>> America forms the ancestral Rocky Mountains and the ancestral Sierra
>>>> Nevada. Sea levels rise, submerging about 30% of the Earth's present
>>>> land surface.
>>>> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>>>>
>>>> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that
>>>> the oceans covered the west coast?
>>>> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in
>>>> the rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
>>>> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise.
>>>> And,
>>> You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has
>>> risen?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> it wasn't man's
>>>> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do
>>>> with global warming nor oceans rising, it
>>>> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say
>>>> anything you wish, that is one reason
>>>> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
>>>> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
>>>> problem for the Left, lately.
>>>>
>>

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 8:00 pm
From: "sr"

"jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hfmlmh$k92$1@news.albasani.net...
> sr wrote:
>> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
>> news:8143a$4b18436d$ccb58423$25174@ispn.net...
>>> foxnews
>>>
>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagen
>>
>>> Michigan sees record snow...
>> DC Under Winter Weather Advisory...
>>
>> Al Gore could not be reached for comment
>
> Such a simple minded ignorance of global average temperatures. The earth
> is warming more at the poles and jet stream and weather patterns are
> changing because of that. Did you really think that everywhere was going
> to be .1 degree warmer than last year?
>
> This will be the earths warmest year in recent history.
>
> Jeff
>>
Where are you living, couldn't be in the midwest, if you are, sharpen your
snowshov>>

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 8:22 pm
From: "sr"

Bush, thank God, didn't fall for the fraud
Obama the manchild has fallen for the fraud
altho' a Dem. Senator, told Obama not to make any commentments to the Global
warming crowd.
There are big Names that are going to make Billions off the back
of you and me and others.
Goldman Satch, GE, and all the Lib organizations , Gore, by nickle and
diming us to death.
======if you hold a job, and the gov. wants a dime for this regulation, a
nickle for that regulation because of climate warming,
whatever, you are working for the government, not for your private self.
===========Now, if you are on the dole, you will root for the
Government========= At some point there won't be
enought people to keep people like you, so than, who will you turn to, is
the question
------------
> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:hfml9u$jo0$1@news.albasani.net...
>> sr wrote:
>>> That's the point Mother Nature, not man
>>
>> Which has absolutely zippo to do with man made CO2 warming.
>>
>> Even Rush's whacko admits that. Do you think that mother nature added
>> all that CO2?
>>
>> The remarkable thing about George W Bush and Republicans in general is
>> that ignorance of doing anything other than kicking the can down the
>> road. Why all the fear of actually tackling a problem? Your "solution:"
>> seems to be wait eons for mother nature to exterminate man and fix the
>> problem.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>> "RickMerrill" <RM@spamless.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hfe1e6$psp$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> sr wrote:
>>>>> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>>>> Zee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> foxnews
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>>>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>>>>>> He's human after all.
>>>>>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth
>>>>>> is cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino
>>>>>> temperature spike.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if
>>>>>> there are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of)
>>>>>> but a positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>>>>>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of
>>>>>> natural climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently
>>>>>> positive (high climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming
>>>>>> could be catastrophic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read
>>>>>> his evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much
>>>>>> worse than Al Gore has said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> Cretaceous Period
>>>>> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their
>>>>> current positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today.
>>>>> South America and Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A
>>>>> circum-equatorial sea, Tethys, forms between the continents of the
>>>>> Northern and Southern Hemisphere. The westward movement of North
>>>>> America forms the ancestral Rocky Mountains and the ancestral Sierra
>>>>> Nevada. Sea levels rise, submerging about 30% of the Earth's present
>>>>> land surface.
>>>>> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>>>>>
>>>>> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that
>>>>> the oceans covered the west coast?
>>>>> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in
>>>>> the rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
>>>>> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise.
>>>>> And,
>>>> You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has
>>>> risen?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> it wasn't man's
>>>>> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do
>>>>> with global warming nor oceans rising, it
>>>>> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say
>>>>> anything you wish, that is one reason
>>>>> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
>>>>> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
>>>>> problem for the Left, lately.
>>>>>
>>>
>
>

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 10:33 pm
From: "sr"

ClimateScam

BREAKING: Over 140 scientists challenge UN's climate claims in open letter
http://bit.ly/4XMXqg #climategate

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Product recall: 2 infants killed in Amby Baby hammocks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c9d4ecbd173f05e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 5:14 pm
From: enough

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/12/08/two-babies-die-in-infant-hammocks-product-recalled/

ollowing the suffocation deaths of two babies this summer, Amby Baby
Motion Beds are being recalled, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety
Commission said.

Amby Baby told the CPSC that a 4-month-old girl in Lawrenceville, Ga.,
died in one of the hammocks in June and a 5-month-old boy from
Gresham, Ore., died in August.

Babies are put at risk of suffocating from the side-to-side shifting
or tilting of the hammock, the CPSC said in its announcement. The the
infant can roll and get trapped against the hammock's fabric or
mattress pad and suffocate.

About 24,000 of the Chinese-made infant hammocks were sold online for
about $250 between January 2003 and October 2009.

Those who have the hammocks are urged to stop using them immediately
until a repair kit is obtained from Amby Baby and the product is
fixed.

To contact Amby Baby, call 866-544-9721 weekdays between 9 a.m. and 5
p.m. Eastern Time or go to the company's Web site.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rod Speed is now Cindy Hamilton, did the sex chg. hurt, Rod?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f05546c4f32cc2e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 7:40 pm
From: "sr"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 8:14 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

sr wrote:

Just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Promote the general welfare" means what it says
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 8:34 pm
From: Day Brown

I saw a UCTV autistic expert report 24 DNA markers for autism. But even
at that, the markers alone may not result in problems. She noted the
onset of pathology followed a contagious infection, and suggests that if
this happens at critical times during mental development, then the risk
of pathology rises dramatically.

But kids with fewer than 12 markers dont have nearly the rate.

I began working with autistic boys in 1963 in a residential treatment
center. I'd never seen any before. Not while in the hospital with 600
other kids when I got polio- that had all sorts of pathologies, nor in
any of the special schools for 'special needs' kids from 1947 to 1953,
nor in any of the summer camps for freaks. This was something new.

But then, in more recent years, seeing TV say the rate now was 1:155, I
called a rural school nurse friend to see how many she saw; in a school
of 250 kids. "None". She went on to say there were only one in a whole
rural district of 4000 kids.

And today, still, if you look up the Arkansas school report, and check
the Ozark hill towns, where the kids come from family farms, and are
raised on much less junk and much more from home gardens like Amish, you
see that over 95% of the kids get tested every year. SOP is to remove
all kids with mental pathology from testing, but they dont here cause
they dont have any.

Another clue. Robert Kaplan, Imperial Grunts, reports half the Green
Berets were raised on family farms. This is 1% of the total population
providing 50% of the nation's most competent and stable soldiers. There
is something going on here. Like the Amish, there's certainly a high
ratio of Native European lineages, (99% white) and certainly a dietary
diff with a rural lifestyle that hasnt changed that much despite the
times. Then too, there's a behavior factor since these schools still
paddle kids that disrupt classes, and bullies get their chains jerked.

But clearly, behavioral techniques are not sufficient to explain the
deviation from the test scores or the school results. Which include:
zero rates of violence. Graduation rates over 90%. (last June, Jasper
graduated 100% of the class, and the year before Deer AR did so too.)
College remediation rates in the teens, attendance rates over 95%.

These schools still work, and do so with the 2nd lowest teacher pay in
the USA, and half the kids so poor their lunches are free. I dont claim
to know what all the factors are, certainly those above are real, but
also for sure, somebody should look into it who can affect policy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A couple of things you ought to know about the Healthcare Bill
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/57ac59065a6fb0b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 8:54 pm
From: "Nick Naim"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:19584$4b1d2807$ccb5841f$27857@ispn.net...
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions
>
> In the healthcare bill after the age of 50 you won't rate along with the
> younger, for medical care
true
>
> Also, you are required to let Gov. have access to your bank acc. and
> medical papers, NO MORE PRIVACY
true

>
> the Dems are behind the door making deals with the Medical Professionals,
> AARP, and other agencies that will
> benefit them, but not you.
true
>
> This is more than about health, this is about control
true
I did not vote for this FUCKING THUG
in 3 more years .............the fuckers gone
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The healthcare bill is so bad
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 9:13 pm
From: "Nick Naim"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:77463$4b15a047$ccb5841f$18462@ispn.net...
> to exempt Congressional Staffers from new healthcare reform bill
>
> From: Turner, Trish
>
> To:
>
> Sent: Tue Dec 01 17:16:35 2009
>
> Subject: URGENT: SenReid tries to exempt Congressional staffers from new
> healthcare reform
>
> http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/look-who-gets-exempted/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogs%2FGretawire+%28FOXNews.com+-+Blogs+-+Gretawire%29&utm_content=Twitter
>
> I heard it would add 2,000 dollars to your Ins. premium!
> .JFC some of a bitch .................................
NO United States Citizen making under $100,000 per year CAN afford health
insurence premium payments
Just go to the fcking hospital if you have problem like i do.
They will take you in...............

==============================================================================
TOPIC: does taking from recycling container = stealing?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/98b1eee3d4cad100?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 9:31 pm
From: The Real Bev

David Harmon wrote:

> Ohioguy <none@none.net> wrote,
>>However, the recycling containers are a different story. My
>>understanding is that the city gets some $$ from the aluminum, etc.,
>
> Yes, it's stealing for exactly the reason you give. In addition, my
> city for example is under orders to divert a percentage of the trash
> stream to recycling - if they fall short, they will be penalized by the
> State of California. Check your local ordinances, and then call the
> cops if you feel like it.

Our city has to pay the recycling company to pick the stuff up. Personally,
I'd rather that a human got the money than some faceless entity or the assholes
that run our city.

--
Cheers, Bev
==========================================================
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Carbon monoxide dangers and winter heating
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/854d98dad79b5fd0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 9:35 pm
From: The Real Bev

zeez wrote:

> http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/consumer/article/carbon_monoxide_dangers_arise_during_winter_months/19194/
>
> The winter months are here. As the mercury begins to dip, some
> families, struggling to pay their heating bills, will turn on the
> kitchen stove burners and the oven in an effort to take the chill off
> their home. What these families don't realize is how dangerous this
> practice can be.

Sometimes ignorance and stupidity carry their own penalties. Not often enough,
though.

> A gas oven or range top should never be used for
> heating. A fire could start and poisonous carbon monoxide (CO) fumes
> could fill the home. Any fuel-burning heating equipment (fireplaces,
> furnaces, water heaters, space or portable heaters), generators and
> chimneys can produce carbon monoxide.

Until I was in 6th grade the only heater in our house was an electric thing
that looked like a mini-fireplace in the bathroom. My grandma got up early and
turned the gas oven on. We survived. We weren't even sick very often.

We also burned our trash in the back yard incinerator.

--
Cheers, Bev
==========================================================
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thrift stores - rising prices?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c91042ccabd6f95f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 9:57 pm
From: The Real Bev

clams_casino wrote:

> Lenona wrote:
>
>>Recently, I heard a newscaster quote an anonymous female shopper as
>>complaining that she'd been shopping in thrift stores all her life,
>>but the prices were suddenly going up, apparently, because more and
>>more people are using them these days.
>>
>>Has anyone seen evidence of that?
>
> A few years ago, we'd typically find paperbacks at 50 cents. Now it's
> hard to find them at $1 as some are charging $2.

Standard yardsale price is 25 cents. DVDs are $1. I would guess that people
are selling their stuff rather than donating it, but yardsale prices really
haven't increased all that much; mostly people just want to swap stuff for
space.

--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------
There are 10 types of people in this world,
those who understand binary and those who don't.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: shopping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eb169afc86ed166f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 10:27 pm
From: rose

http://www.shoppingreps.com?SourceId=1141 is the first website
developed on new innovative shopping model: Group bargaining through
social networking targeted towards volume discounts. It has presented
a suitable platform to reflect this novel shopping idea. This concept
and methodology is new to the internet world. The website offers free
membership to the shoppers and vendors. It encourages shoppers to
acquire quotes for themselves when a group is formed. The shoppers
will know the size of the group and the complete product details for
which they will be requested to fetch quotes from their own
localities. Shoppers get their chance of testing their bargain
capabilities and enjoy the benefits and fun of bargaining for a bulk
order and a group.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 10:30 pm
From: rose

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No gift giving this Christmas...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7570f95930f62ce6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 8 2009 10:37 pm
From: "sr"

"Ohioguy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:WkwTm.67105$rE5.40134@newsfe08.iad...
> We already did gift giving on the traditional date - December 6 - St.
> Nick's Day. More than 2 weeks later, Christmas will thus be reserved for
> Christ.
=
Like your style, never heard of this

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Small washing machines
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/34c4cdf5cdc020c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 12:39 pm
From: BigDog1

On Dec 1, 9:19 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I lived abroad, the washing machines were quite small and could
> have fit in the bathroom of a U.S. home. As I recall, the way to hook
> them up was simply to insert a hose pipe and turn the water on.
>
> Amazingly, they cleaned satisfactorily.
>
> Does anyone know what I mean. If so, does such a product exist in the
> U.S.?

Yep. We lived in Germany for ten years in the 70s and 80s. Had one
of them, a front loading Seimans, in the kitchen of our apartment.
Very efficient, and it did a very good job on the clothes. The only
problem was that we had to do a load of laundry every couple of days
because it's small capacity. Still cheaper and more convenient
(convenience has value) than spending a day at the laundromat every
week.

Don't know if they're available in the States. Since we returned
we've always had space for full size appliances. There are small,
stackable washers and dryers made for apartment and condo dwellers.
My son had them installed in a hall closet of his apartment when he
was a bachelor. Probably not a good option for a family, but they did
the job for him.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cindy Hamilton
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d768f2a2bc413b74?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:24 pm
From: "sr"

Congressional Budget Office:
If you earn $44,000 before taxes and buy your own insurance you'll pay a
$5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a
total of $7,300 a year, that's 17% of your income!

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:138c6$4b1d6505$ccb58426$14320@ispn.net...
> Medicare cut, Homecare cut, People after age of 50 ration care.
> I'll have more for you -
> I have to read the UK papers to see what is going on here since
> the main steam media is in bed with this ADM, so we aren't getting
> the News
> I'll have more for you to think about
>
>

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:25 pm
From: "sr"

If your family is fortunate enough to make $102,100 a year, Pelosi-Care will
hit you with a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a
$20,300 total, or 20% of what you earn!

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:25 pm
From: "sr"

If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified plan when you file
your taxes, you'll be charged with a felony and hit with thousands of
dollars in fines.

Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure that illegal immigrants are
exempt from this law.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 12:58 am
From: "Dave C."

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:53 -0500
"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:

> If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified plan when you
> file your taxes, you'll be charged with a felony and hit with
> thousands of dollars in fines.
>
> Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure that illegal immigrants
> are exempt from this law.

While that's technically true, the plan is blanket amnesty after the
health care reform is passed. In other words, there will be no such
thing as an illegal immigrant soon. -Dave

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 4:27 pm
From: "sr"

"Dave C." <noway@nohow.never> wrote in message
news:20091207165834.032f9ca0.noway@nohow.never...
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:53 -0500
> "sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote:
>
>> If you don't provide proof that you're in a qualified plan when you
>> file your taxes, you'll be charged with a felony and hit with
>> thousands of dollars in fines.
>>
>> Unlike every American, Pelosi-Care makes sure that illegal immigrants
>> are exempt from this law.
>
> While that's technically true, the plan is blanket amnesty after the
> health care reform is passed. In other words, there will be no such
> thing as an illegal immigrant soon. -Dave
No, they will make them all legal
======
LarsLarsonShow

my day today started with my dentist, telling me how canadian socialist
medicine let his dad die! obama care needs to fail before it kills

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 5:37 pm
From: "sr"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions
like I said, rationing for people over 50. out of MD

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 1:49 pm
From: geoff

In message
<7ff86190-2f8b-4fb2-a05c-50e65e58259e@n31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
terry <tsanford@nf.sympatico.ca> writes
>On Dec 6, 9:24 am, Omelet <ompome...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <hfdmol$6d...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "sam coleridge" <invalidto...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>> > base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>> > steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>> > They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>> > indoor barbi.
>>
>> > They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>> > them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>> > Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>> > could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>
>> Just be careful! Attempts at indoor BBQ tend to produce Carbon Monoxide
>> gas.
>>
>> It's a good way to commit suicide.
>> --
>> Peace! Om
>>
>> "Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put
>>their foot down."
>> --Steve Rothstein
>>
>> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
>> recfoodreci...@yahoogroups.com
>> Subscribe: recfoodrecipes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
>
>Some years ago; in order to try and stay warm an elderly couple
>operated their bar-b-q inside their fairly well sealed up North
>American house during a power failure. It used up all the oxygen and
>they were found dead.

How many more does that leave ?

--
geoff

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 5:27 pm
From: "sr"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:1ac11$4b1b5485$ccb58410$12294@ispn.net...
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:4b1806ab$0$1598$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>h wrote:
>>
>>> Paranoid much? The actual proposals read pretty much like the MA current
>>> laws, and under those (I don't live in MA) I would NOT have to buy
>>> insurance. Even those who fail to buy it and can "afford it" (according
>>> to the state) only pay a tax of less than $800 year. Jail time, are you
>>> insane?
>>
>> He believes Faux News, as close to insane as you can get!
> Not just Fox, local papers are giving us the facts

what is to come in Health Care

By Alison Young, USA TODAY
When the swine flu vaccine was most scarce, health officials gave thousands
of doses to corporate clinics at Walt Disney World, Toyota, defense
contractors, oil companies and cruise lines, according to a USA TODAY review
of vaccine distribution data from three states.
USA TODAY examined how state health departments distributed H1N1 vaccine
after public outcry last month over Wall Street firms such as Goldman Sachs
receiving doses while doctors and hospitals encountered shortages. The data
show other companies got the vaccine in October and early November. In some
cases, early doses went to people not deemed most at risk by the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention.

"Now we have evidence of what my suspicions were," said U.S. Rep. Frank
Pallone, D-N.J., chair of a House health subcommittee. "I'm afraid when you
have these corporate initiatives, it's not primarily needs-based."

Pallone said he would send the CDC a letter Tuesday asking it to revise
guidelines to states on the use of corporate health clinics.

Each state health department must decide how to provide the vaccine to
people most at risk, and employers are a legitimate venue, said Anne
Schuchat, the CDC's immunization director. CDC's priority groups include
pregnant women, people with chronic health conditions, health care workers
and people ages 6 months to 24 years. "This is much less about what you do
for a living and much more about how do you get the vaccine in the path of
those target populations," she said.

The Toyota Family Health Center in San Antonio, which got 2,120 doses,
initially focused on the CDC's priority groups, but since Nov. 16 has
offered the vaccine to any employee, contractor or family member, spokesman
Craig Mullenbach said.

SWINE FLU CENTRAL: News, video, interactive map of CDC data
YOUR GUIDE: Getting through the season unscathed
Q&A: Where can you get vaccine shots?

Norwegian Cruise Line in Miami used its 300 doses "to vaccinate critical
on-board staff on our ships," spokeswoman AnneMarie Mathews said. She said
recipients included medical staff, youth counselors and "key officers
responsible for the safe operation of the vessel" but did not address how
they fit into CDC's priority groups.

Of the 2.42 million doses in Texas and 2 million in Florida distributed
through mid-November, fewer than 1% went to employers, according to USA
TODAY's analysis of data obtained under state open-records acts. Thousands
of registered providers - doctors, hospitals, schools, pharmacies - in Texas
alone got no doses in that period.

Among companies that requested and received early doses and say they
administered them to high-risk people:

. Florida: Walt Disney World got 2,200 doses for college-age theme park
workers and members of its 100-person medical team. Universal Orlando Resort
got 100 doses.

. Texas: Defense contractors Bell Helicopter got 100 doses and Lockheed
Martin Aeronautics, 80. Chevron got 190; ExxonMobil, 160; Dow Chemical, 170;
ConocoPhillips, 110.

. Georgia: No doses went to companies. Ravae Graham of the state health
department said people in the priority groups "are typically only a small
fraction of workers in the corporate sector."

California, New York and New York City are still deciding whether to release
data to USA TODAY.

Corporate clout played no role, health officials said. "We're not playing
favorites with Disney," said Dain Weister of the Orange County (Fla.) Health
Department.

Carrie Williams of the Texas health department said, "We've been doing the
very best we can to fairly distribute the vaccine to a wide variety of
providers."

Complicating distribution decisions: Not all forms of vaccine are
appropriate for all people. Nasal spray can be used only by healthy people
and health care workers, and shots come in different doses.

"The question we have to ask on these corporate ones is: Did at-risk people
receive the doses? Or was corporate America buying their way out of an
illness?" asked Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., who chairs a House oversight
subcommittee. "You've almost got to look at them on a case-by-case basis."

Melanie Sloan, executive director of the watchdog group Citizens for
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said there's no assurance that
companies used the doses properly: "Everything is on the honor system," she
said.

Contributing: Paul Overberg

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 5:45 pm
From: Les Cargill

Day Brown wrote:
> Les Cargill wrote:
>>> As for the depression, back then, kids were not raised on sugar
>>> cereals, junk food, and soda, so their academic performance was
>>> better and they grew to be more rational adults.
>>
>> Not always. Diet had less to do with it than the realities of
>> what "labor" meant. People wore ties, because it meant
>> status, and distance from the operation of dangerous
>> industrial machinery.
> As may be. But diet is a grossly underestimated factor. Neurological
> data is abundant to show how trace minerals and micronutrients in
> "organic" soils are absorbed by the plants that then empower some of the
> 150+ neurotransmitters identified so far in the laying down of new
> neural pathways during learning. Which with kids is critical at certain
> times during development. You dont get maximal mental development
> raising kids on sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.
>
> American wheat became the global quality standard in the 19th century.
> Jared Diamond, "Collapse" reports that when they were able to test it in
> the 1950's, hard red winter wheat had 26% protein. A few years ago, the
> bag at the feed mill said it had 19%. This year and last, it dont even
> say anymore.
>

Grains are evolving towards being pure stocks of calories because
starchy corn and such is easier to engineer. If a market
evolevs for higher protein wheat ( and I wouldn't be at all surprised
to see that), you'll see it.

> Course, nobody wants to think of how their parents raised them, much
> less what they've been doing to their own kids. But one clue: The
> national posted autism rate is 1:155. The rate for Amish kids who never
> see sugar cereals: 1:15,000.
>

Interesting you'd say "Amish" ( and good, because they make a great
natural experiment ) because that gene pool isn't all that deep. Autism
is swinging towards being a "hardware" problem these days, and that
favors genetics above environment.

>>
>> Kids aren't stupid. They correctly surmise that learning
>> calculus may or may not make them any money in the
>> long haul. Although knowing calculus probably
>> knocks your chances of being unemployed back down to
>> sub-4% ( replacement/churn levels ).
>>
>>> The system we have now could be made to work if the electorate was
>>> rational, but you know how many demagogues they support, and mite yet
>>> figure that will be disastrous.
>>>
>>> Which is what Machiavelli says.
>>
>> I'd read of Cicero first....
> Good advice, but things didnt work out well for him either.

Not much :)

--
Les Cargill

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 11:03 pm
From: "Jim Jones"

Day Brown wrote:
> Jim Jones wrote:
>> Day Brown wrote:
>>> Les Cargill wrote:
>>>>> As for the depression, back then, kids were not raised on sugar
>>>>> cereals, junk food, and soda, so their academic performance was
>>>>> better and they grew to be more rational adults.
>>>> Not always. Diet had less to do with it than the realities of
>>>> what "labor" meant. People wore ties, because it meant
>>>> status, and distance from the operation of dangerous
>>>> industrial machinery.
>>> As may be. But diet is a grossly underestimated factor.
>>
>> Yes, but you cannot explain why Japanese society did so badly
>> in the 30s even tho their diet clearly can not have been the problem.
> Just cause diet is now an underestimated factor logically does not
> prove, nor claim that there are other factors.

Yes, but you have just claimed that diet is a problem, you have not established that at all.

>> Neurological
>>> data is abundant to show how trace minerals and micronutrients in
>>> "organic" soils are absorbed by the plants that then empower some of
>>> the 150+ neurotransmitters identified so far in the laying down of
>>> new neural pathways during learning. Which with kids is critical at
>>> certain times during development. You dont get maximal mental
>>> development raising kids on sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.
>>
>> That last claim can not be substantiated.
> FWIW: archeology looked at village bone middens and the stomach
> contents of bog bodies. They found over 100 wild plants and animals
> in the diet of Native European ancestors.

And the diet of those before sugar cereals, junk food, and soda was nothing like that.

So, maybe it dont apply to
> you, but does to Ashkenazic Jews and most others.

You have not established that either.

> Do you really need proof that this would provide a wide variety of
> trace minerals and micronutrients from organic soils in the food?

Yes, for the time between then and when we did see sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.

Or
> that conversely, some regions dont have enuf Iodine, so goiter was a
> problem.

Yes, that sort of thing has been established, but that is nothing like
what we saw when we did have sugar cereals, junk food, and soda.

Now we deliberately ensure that there are no dietary shortages of iodine etc.

Is there some reason to think Iodine is the only essential
> trace mineral

Obviously not.

or that all the pathologies are only physical and not
> mental?

We have not seen anything like that with mental effects.

>>> American wheat became the global quality standard in the 19th
>>> century.
>> Like hell it did.
> It made transnationals out of General Mills, Kellogg, and Pillsbury.

But not with GM, Ford, IBM etc etc etc.

>>> Jared Diamond, "Collapse" reports that when they were able to test
>>> it in the 1950's, hard red winter wheat had 26% protein. A few years
>>> ago, the bag at the feed mill said it had 19%. This year and last,
>>> it dont even say anymore.
>>
>> Plenty of other wheat growing countries still do.
> Do what? say?

Yep.

Given my druthers, I'd rather Canadian wheat which has
> been grown ever further north with Global Warming, and therefore on
> land that has not been over exploited by agribusiness.

There is not a shred of evidence that the land it is grown on has any mental effect on humans that eat it.

Particularly now that we deliberately iodise etc.

>>> Course, nobody wants to think of how their parents raised them, much
>>> less what they've been doing to their own kids. But one clue: The
>>> national posted autism rate is 1:155. The rate for Amish kids who
>>> never see sugar cereals: 1:15,000.
>>
>> And you have no idea whether that is just due to them
>> not using modern medicine and so not diagnosing autism.
> In fact, I have a very good idea. I got polio for my 7th birthday in
> 1946, and spent years in special schools and hospitals with all kindsa
> freaks. The body language of autism is obvious when you learn what it
> is.

Doesnt explain why it took so long to diagnose in the general population.

But they werent there, and didnt show up until the early 1960's,
> and then almost all were Jewish kids.

That is nothing like reality.

There are DNA markers, which
> however, are only triggered by certain conditions.

Yes.

In this case, the
> Jews had both the markers, and the money to buy upscale highly
> processed foods,

So did hordes of others at that time.

and in the 60s, well aware of the insularism that
> empowered the Nazi propaganda, quit shopping at the delis.

> I dont maintain diet is the only cause.

You have not established that it is a cause at all.

Contagions that happen at
> critical times of development have also been implicated. But the small
> Amish schools dont have nearly the rate because there arent enuf kids
> to provide new victims before the pathogen mutates.

Does not explain why other small non amish schools do not get that effect.

With only 30 kids
> in a class, the bug runs out of new targets, and rather more quickly
> with kids who have healthy robust immune systems.

Does not explain why other small non amish schools do not get that effect.

Which are enhanced
> by proper diets.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lifting a person
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f903bdaac4c54dc2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 7:43 pm
From: aesthete8

On Dec 5, 6:54 pm, Dan Birchall <nob...@imaginary-
host.danbirchall.com> wrote:
> art...@gmail.com (aesthete8) wrote:
> > On tv, there is an advertisement for these straps that you put under
> > whatever you want to lift and--voila!--2 persons can lift the heaviest
> > thing.
>
> > Could that be adapted to transporting a person?
>
> You don't need the straps for two people to carry a person. If you
> take a First Aid course, or the more advanced First Responder course,
> or search Google, you can learn about two-person carries.
>
> --
> "If you like to stand on your head and spit pickles in the snow, on the
> Internet there are at least three other people just like you."
> - Langston James Goree VI

Is this what you mean?:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5413_carry-injured-person.html

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 7 2009 9:11 pm
From: "h"

"Gregory" <gregory@greg.invalid> wrote in message
news:g13pg5l0unadbahncasdmrfop4sd14h5c0@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:59:45 -0500, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Close, but it's bigger than that. Religion is the mass delusion, not just
>>some random "holiday". Dump it all, improve the IQ of the planet!
>
> Right... and the people who believe that swirling gasses came from
> nowhere and exploded to form the universe represent the intelligent
> people? "Science" is just a different religion that also requires
> believing in something that you cannot see.
>
Huh? Science is ONLY what you can see. PLONK!

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