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* A/C working properly? Cost -> lower temp? - 20 messages, 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c37471a9403c0a2?hl=en
* Best electric fan for home? - 3 messages, 2 authors
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* Fast $ - Proven Results - 1 messages, 1 author
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* Frugal way to get money from Do Not Call Law violators - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6508a62b831eed5d?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: A/C working properly? Cost -> lower temp?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c37471a9403c0a2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 2:58 pm
From: Logan Shaw
Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:
> Now, define outragous.
>
> You fucking slut.
I think YOU just supplied a perfectly adequate definition of 'outrageous'.
- Logan
== 2 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:01 pm
From: Logan Shaw
Gordon wrote:
> Here are few things that need to be checked.
>
> 1)Outside coil should be hosed off at least once a year.
> If you have access to a hose bib and a hoes you can
> do this yourself.
Don't you think using a hoe would damage the coil? On the other
hand, if it is *really* overgrown with grass or vines or something...
- Logan
== 3 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:20 pm
From: krw
In article <468ff011$0$30622$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, lshaw-
usenet@austin.rr.com says...
> carie_r@mail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" <heybubNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
> >> midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
> >> on for almost twenty hours.
> >>
> >> Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
> >> midday) which would also be midnight.
>
> > Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
> > native language??
>
> I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
> I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
> 2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.
Well, we can't all be 100% correct. You're batting .500, which isn't
bad in some shapes.
> Here's an explanation of why:
>
>
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/misc.htm#Anchor-57026
Sillyness.
> Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
> and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
1. What part of government is "responsible" for anything?
2. You _are_ talking about the US federal government.
3. Oxymoronic.
> for standardizing measurements. These are the people who operate
> NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
> in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.
4. Pedantic.
--
Keith
--
Keith
== 4 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:29 pm
From: mm
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 08:20:20 -0700, carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>On Jul 7, 5:36 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 01:13:10 -0700, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>> >On Jul 7, 3:12 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:47:19 -0700, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>> >> >On Jul 6, 7:45 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>...
>>
>> What you think that any buman (who has ever used AC) would recognize
>> might well not be what someone else thinks.
>
>BobK207 thinks enough of peoples intelligence to say "Oh & for clarity
>don't use 12:00PM ....use noon or midnight to avoid confusion." (The
>next most recent post in this thread, sorted by time.)
>
I saw his post. It's not bad advice. I got an 800 on my math SATs,
as high as the score goes, and it wasn't until I was 45 or so that I
finally got straight which was which. I finally came up with a way to
remmeber which was which. Logic is my thing, and not memorization.
There are lots of people who for lots of reasons haven't got it
straight, and it's good policy to make things as easy as possible for
people who are trying to help. It's almost the equivalent of removing
things that are in front of the furnace before the repairman gets
there, even though he can and will do it himself.
What's worse than AM and PM is 12m and 12M. I still don't know which
one of those is noon. I wonder how many people do.
When my mother hired a painter, she took off all he wall plates before
he got there and put them back on after he left. And other stuff like
that. They made that agreement so she could pay less. (She also
told me he was "blind", but I'm not sure what that meant. He did a
good job.)
== 5 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:34 pm
From: mm
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 11:06:44 -0500, <kjpro @ usenet.com> wrote:
>
>"mm" <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:7gmu831g81q1skc898dfeeqnmnb1hpq295@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 01:13:10 -0700, carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>>
>> >On Jul 7, 3:12 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:47:19 -0700, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>> >> >On Jul 6, 7:45 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> Running for hours could mean anything more than one hour. There's
>not
>> >> >> much information there. Let it run overnight. If it can't bring the
>apartment
>> >> >> down to temperature overnight, then there's something definitely
>wrong
>> >> >> with it.
>> >>
>> >> >> Don
>> >>
>> >> >It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
>> >> >is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
>> >> >"hours" if it wasn't...
>> >>
>> >> You missed his point, that hours can mean 2 or 200. So we don't know
>> >> your personality and what you would have said it if, in your opinion,
>> >> it wasn't, and even if you would not have said "hours" if it wasn't,
>> >> we still didn't know how many hours. You could have said 7 hours and
>> >> that would have been clear.
>> >>
>> >> Don't be snotty, especially when you're asking for free advice.
>> >>
>> >> Is there any chance the fan is on ON, and the thermostat is not
>> >> accurate? Turn the thermostat down to 70 and see if goes lower than
>> >> it is now.
>> >>
>> >> Also check the outside unit and see if it is making noise, and see if
>> >> you can tell if the noise is the fan and the compressor, or just the
>> >> fan.
>> >
>> >You've got to be kidding.
>>
>> No I"m not. Plenty of idiots post here. How do we tell who is an
>> idiot and who isn't? Even half or more of the seemingly smart people
>> fail to give enough information in their first post. EVen things they
>> already know.
>>
>> We had one a couple days ago who dribbled out the important
>> information a little at a time until most people had I'm sure stopped
>> reading the thread before all the important facts were in.
>>
>> > Enough "hours" that any human who has ever
>> >used A/C would recognize that there's a problem.
>>
>> And did you say that you had ever used AC before?
>>
>> And again, you hadn't said how many hours. We can't read your mind.
>
>
>Again, did you miss the $320 electric bill.
>
>Clueless I tell you, just pure stupidity!
>
It could be that a neigbhor is using her electricity. There was a
case on tv like that just last week. And oh yeah, there was a
follow-up in this newsgroup just last week where another tenant was
was using the poster's electricity, and had been for months, since he
moved in.
So she could have two separate problems, the bill and the lack of
cooling.
But I believe the AC is broken and it alone is using the electricity,
and still we need to know details. She''s the one who wanted to
prepare before the repairman came. This is not a case of "it's too
difficult for you. Why investigate? Call the repairman." The
repairman is coming but she wanted to be prepared for him.
== 6 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:35 pm
From: "Noon-Air"
"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:468fe950$0$20616$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>> You've got to be kidding. Enough "hours" that any human who has ever
>> used A/C would recognize that there's a problem. Here's what he
>> said:
>
>> "Running for hours could mean anything more than one hour. There's
>> not much information there.
>
> Indeed. This by itself isn't much information. I'm no expert, but I
> know that A/C units need to be properly sized for the load. (If a
> unit is oversized, bad things happen like either excessively short
> cycle times or uncomfortable temperature swings, and maybe problems
> with humidity regulation.) What this means is that on the hottest
> few days of the year, the A/C *should* run a lot. If I understand
> correctly, it is perfectly reasonable behavior for your A/C unit to
> run for "hours" on the hottest few days of the year.
>
> Now, combine that with the fact that the large parts of the Western
> US have been experiencing a heat wave. There may be record high
> temperatures where you live. Or maybe not; you might not live in
> one of those areas that is experiencing record highs. We don't have
> that information.
>
> The $320 electric bill is a sign, but it's not really proof of anything.
> There was a guy who posted to misc.consumers.frugal-living only a few
> weeks ago whose electric bill at a small office suite was through the
> roof, even though he was only there a few days a week and turned
> everything off when he left. Turned out a neighboring office suite
> had been accidentally wired through his meter!
the $320 light bill is from LAST MONTH, and has nothing to do with the
current heat wave.
The OP needs to either A) be climbing the landlords ass tot get it fixed, or
B) pony up the cash and hire a pro to fix it.
> So, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to quantify "hours".
> (On the other hand, the flame fest that this thread has turned into
> is unreasonable.)
>
> - Logan
== 7 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:37 pm
From: "Noon-Air"
"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:468ff011$0$30622$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>> On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" <heybubNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" =
>>> past
>>> midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has
>>> been
>>> on for almost twenty hours.
>>>
>>> Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
>>> midday) which would also be midnight.
>
>> Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
>> native language??
>
> I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
> I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
> 2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.
>
> Here's an explanation of why:
>
>
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/misc.htm#Anchor-57026
>
> Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
> and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
> for standardizing measurements. These are the people who operate
> NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
> in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.
Old news.... who really gives a rats ass anyway. It has absolutely nothing
to do with the price of tea in China.
== 8 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:38 pm
From: "Noon-Air"
"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:468ff049$0$30622$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:
>> Now, define outragous.
>>
>> You fucking slut.
>
> I think YOU just supplied a perfectly adequate definition of 'outrageous'.
Nope, "outrageous" is what the sound is thats made when you get dropped into
the killfile
*PLONK*
== 9 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:40 pm
From: mm
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 06:29:04 -0500, "HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote:
>carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>>
>> It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
>> is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
>> "hours" if it wasn't...
>
>Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
>midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
>on for almost twenty hours.
>
>Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
>midday) which would also be midnight.
So they both mean the same thing! Wow, I thought I had this worked
out when I was 45 y.o. Now I have to start all over. Maybe NASA
could come up with a numeric term for noon, or I'll have to start
usilng a 24-hour clock.
== 10 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:42 pm
From: Al Bundy
"Jeffrey Lebowski" <The_Dude@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eqCdnWVVrYolhRLbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@scnresearch.com:
>
> <carie_r@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:1183778524.600054.55490@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 6, 10:32 pm, "Jeffrey Lebowski" <The_D...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > <cari...@mail.com> wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > Despite what you might like to think, your post is not appropriate
>> > to
> the
>> > group alt.hvac...
>> >
>>
>> The description of the group on Google is "Heating, venting and air
>> conditioning."
>> That's what this post is about.
>>
>> I went and browsed the group and read some relevant threads. There is
>> no FAQ or charter that was voted on. There are a few people there
>> that are unhappy that sci.engr.heat-vent-ac didn't get popular...
>> which may be what this is about. The overwhelming response in the
>> threads is that alt.hvac is public, and for general discussion.
>>
>> To anybody else replying to this guys post, note he added a
>> "follow-up to:" header to alt.fucktard, and your newsreader may send
>> it there and not to the relevant groups. Posting via Google will do
>> that, so just replace alt.fucktard with
>> "alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal- living,alt.hvac"
>> This guy is talking about netiquette, and this says a lot about his
>> post.
>>
>
> Suck my dick.
I think that's a different alt.* group.
>
> --
>
>
>
== 11 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:52 pm
From: mm
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 14:57:04 -0500, Logan Shaw
<lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>> On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" <heybubNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post meridian" = past
>>> midday). That would be midnight. From there to 7:46PM means the ac has been
>>> on for almost twenty hours.
>>>
>>> Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
>>> midday) which would also be midnight.
>
>> Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
>> native language??
>
>I have a high school (and college) diploma. Yet, I don't think everything
>I heard in high school (or college) is automatically true. In particular,
>2000 wasn't the first year of the new millenium, and 12:00 PM is not noon.
>
>Here's an explanation of why:
>
>
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/misc.htm#Anchor-57026
This is so on-point, I think it deserves to be quoted. Also, I don't
think there can be copyright issues with government websites info, all
of which should be in the public domain"
Are noon and midnight 12 a.m. or 12 p.m.?
This is a tricky question. The answer is that the terms 12 a.m.
and 12 p.m. are wrong and should not be used.
To illustrate this, consider that "a.m" and "p.m." are
abbreviations for "ante meridiem" and "post meridiem." They mean
"before noon" and "after noon," respectively. Noon is neither before
or after noon; it is simply noon. Therefore, neither the "a.m." nor
"p.m." designation is correct. On the other hand, midnight is both 12
hours before noon and 12 hours after noon. Therefore, either 12 a.m.
or 12 p.m. could work as a designation for midnight, but both would be
ambiguous as to the date intended.
When a specific date is important, and when we can use a 24-hour
clock, we prefer to designate that moment not as 1200 midnight, but
rather as 0000 if we are referring to the beginning of a given day (or
date), or 2400 if we are designating the end of a given day (or date).
To be certain of avoiding ambiguity (while still using a 12-hour
clock), specify an event as beginning at 1201 a.m. or ending at 1159
p.m., for example; this method is used by the railroads and airlines
for schedules, and is often found on legal papers such as contracts
and insurance policies.
===> I've heard this before.
If one is referring not to a specific date, but rather to
several days, or days in general, use the terms noon and midnight
instead of 12 a.m. and 12 p.m. For example, a bank might be open on
Saturdays from 8 a.m. to noon. Or a grocery store might be open daily
until midnight. The terms "12 noon" and "12 midnight" are also
correct, though redundant.
====> On July 3, I was a at a supermarket that had a temporary sign,
and someone had written "Open July 4, 7AM to 12AM, and then it had a
dark P written over the second A.
>Note that this comes from NIST, the National Institute of Standards
>and Technology, which is the US federal government agency responsible
>for standardizing measurements.
I liked it better when it was the National Bureau of Standards. They
keep changing names and confusing me. (I'm just going to call the INS
"la Migra" so I don't have to worry when it changes names.)
>These are the people who operate
>NIST-F1, the atomic clock which is the primary reference for timekeeping
>in the United States, and one of the primary references worldwide.
I'll tell you how I remmeber this, and how I think it arose. The
moment of noon is neither before noon or after noon, but the
59.999999999...... seconds after that are after noon, and yet still
part of the minute that is 12:00. (and part of the second that is
12:00:00.) So even though all but the tiniest bit of the minute is not
noon, most of 12:00 noon is PM.
> - Logan
== 12 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 12:07 pm
From: "Jeffrey Lebowski"
"spamhater" <zhushao666@cox.net> wrote in message
news:EgLji.2238$Sb4.71@newsfe21.lga...
> Jeffrey Lebowski wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Suck my dick.
> >
> > --
> >
> That's your dick? I thought it was the tip of your thumb.
>
Shut the hell up and keep sucking.
--
== 13 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 2:41 pm
From: carie_r@mail.com
On Jul 7, 12:42 pm, BobK207 <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 9:41 am, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 3:13 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:55:23 -0700, cari...@mail.com wrote:
> > > >On Jul 6, 8:05 pm, "Noon-Air" <Noon-...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >> <cari...@mail.com> wrote in message
> > > >...
>
> > > >> Hire a *competent*, licensed, bonded, insured, professionally trained HVAC
> > > >> technician, instead of depending on some flunkie handiman that couldn't make
> > > >> it doing anything else.
>
> > > >What specifically do I ask him tomorrow? (Types of HVAC
>
> > > Ask him what the problem is, and how long it will take to fix it.
>
> > > Since he doesn't work for you, he may not tell you, but if you are
> > > nice, and not the least bit snotty, he may well tell you.
>
> > > Maybe ask him if it's worth repairing or not, although that is not his
> > > decision and he may be much less willing to speculate. OTOH, if he
> > > knows it's a 50 dollar problem, he may be wiling to speculate. But
> > > you have to be even nicer to get answers to hard questions.
> > > (sometimes even when you yourself are paying).
>
> > > >certifications?) He is being sent by the landlord, which I don't pay
> > > >for.
>
> > I just posted a description of what maintenance didn't do as a reponse
> > to my original post.
>
> why are you now posting multiple replies?
>
> new to this whole thing,, huh?
When some people read threads they only check back with the specific
line they were on. I posted a short sentence telling them it's there,
instead of posting the whole thing. Sorry that annoys you...
== 14 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 5:42 pm
From: mm
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:27:18 -0700, carie_r@mail.com wrote:
>On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>> It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
>> temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
>> C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
>> colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
>> have a thermometer.)
>>
>> Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
>> working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
>> apartment.
>>
>> Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
>> right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
>> electric bill is outragous.
>>
>
>Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
>in two minutes he said "it's fine."
I surely wouldn't consider that an adequate test. An adequate test
looks at the results, that is, is the air cold. Unless that is
physcially impossible, like maybe measuring something on a satellite
when one is on the ground, but that is not the case here.
Still, I wonder if there are two places that are specially important.
But I'm not an AC guy.
> He hadn't checked the output
>temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
>as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
>minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
>interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
>deg. I said it should be 20 deg.
Although someone said 20 yesterday, I don't think it is always 20 -- I
think what I've heard here, AHR, is 15 to 20.
> "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
>different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
>He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
>checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
Now the thing is working! Darn. It's much much harder to fix most
things when they are working right. Even things that only work
intermittently. You pretty much have to catch it when it's not
working to be able to fix many things.
Do you have a thermometer other than the one that is on the
thermostat?
>He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
>just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.)
He asked because curious-type repairmen are always curious when a
customer says something about a repair, right or wrong.
And of course it does have to run for a while to get to that temp. He
may have thought you had had it running.
The fact is that all repairmen get calls for things that either were
really never broken or start workimg the moment they touch it. Even
when I'm working on my own stuff, that I know is broken, it's not
unusual for it to start to work fine the moment I start to repair it.
Sometimes they never break again, sometimes they do.
> I explained the
>problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
>having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
>already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
>anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
It's plainly working outside, but I think he should have looked if it
was dirty. By now he has 18 degrees, which iiuc is pretty good.
I think during hot weather a lot of companies make service calls as
quick as possible, because so many people are calling them. If one
wants a tune-up or a cleaning, he has to call when they aren't so
busy, or pay more in the busy season**. But if the outside is dirty,
you could clean it yourself if the landlord says ok, using a garden
hose with no nozzle, iiuc. The fins are very easy to bend, and bent
fins cut down AC efficiency. This isn't your major problem, though.
**This is why I guess whether you rent or own, you should test your
furnace in September and your AC in April or May, so that if it is
broken, you have time to get it fixed when companies aren't busy. I
don't know what various landlords will say if you say your ac isn't
working in May. Landlords vary.
>asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
>yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down.
For the next time, espeically a more important situation, you have to
have the pencil ready, because if you give someone time to think, they
want to "check with their lawyer". That's why reporters iiuc sometimes
try to surprise the people they interview.
>When I
>got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
>landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
>cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
>He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
Did you first ask his name, or if he had a business card**? For your
records, all you really need is his name, or the company name on the
truck. He didn't add any freon, so he doesn't have to have a
license, and your legal relationship is with your landlord, not with
the AC company. This part is very important. If he fixes it and does
a bad job, but doesn't cause damage to things you own, you won't be
able to sue him. You're not paying him and you don't have a direct
relationship with him. No privity. (If does damage things you own,
the landlord might be resposnible too, in this case.)
Being a tenant can be both an advantage and a disadvantage in this
situation. It depends how things play out.
**My friend who has a burglar alarm business gives all his installers
business cards, although I'm sure many bosses in many fields don't
bother. He's hoping to get business that way. (He might be thinking
that without a business card, the installer will just give them his
own number and do the work without my friend, but if they have a card
they won't bother.)
>number and write the state about it.
That's really going to endear him for the next time he has to come.
He'll be sure to clean up well, and be extra careful to not leave
fingerprints.
And for nothing because as you found later, he doesn't have to give
you his number. Except he may tell your landlord he doesn't like you.
That's not in your interest either.
I absolutely despise the president of my home owners association. She
lies, cheats, and steals votes, and she's a hypocrite or senile. But
I don't tell her any of that that or she will make my life more
difficult. When one of us moves, I'll probably tell her.
>(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)
>
>Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
From my pov, it's hard to say if it's unfortunate or not. Surely if I
were in your shoes, I'd be happy to be able to get his number. (Even
though I could find his number if I had his name. If the licensing
agency wouldn't look up his number based on his name, they also
wouldn't do anything if they had his number.) But if we look at the
whole picture, we live in a country where laws are becoming more and
more oppressive. I'm flabbergasted that in Virginia, they passed a
law that there can't be smoking even at private clubs. And some place
else they banned the sale at restaurants of food made with transfat.
Requiring that the ingredient be listed on the menu would have been
ok, and probably killed it, but telling people they can't serve a
legal food if people want to buy it is, I hate to say it, the bud of
fascism. That the state has the power to do anything. (Not German
fascism, which includes mass murder. More like maybe Spanish fascism.)
>found the following on the net:
>G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
>Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
>in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
>fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
>this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
>who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
>system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
>repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
>sprinkler system.
This strikes me as reasonable.
BTW, you didn't reply to any particular thing I said last night, but I
hope I convinced you that I wasn't suggesting that anything
underhanded is going on.
== 15 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 2:48 pm
From: carie_r@mail.com
On Jul 7, 1:41 pm, Jeff Wisnia <jwis...@conversent.net> wrote:
> cari...@mail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 12:41 pm, BobK207 <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Jul 7, 9:27 am, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>
> >>>On Jul 6, 7:24 pm, cari...@mail.com wrote:
>
> >>>>It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
> >>>>temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
> >>>>C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
> >>>>colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
> >>>>have a thermometer.)
>
> >>>>Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
> >>>>working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
> >>>>apartment.
>
> >>>>Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
> >>>>right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
> >>>>electric bill is outragous.
>
> >>>Maintenance came today. He hooked an electric probe in two places, and
> >>>in two minutes he said "it's fine." He hadn't checked the output
> >>>temperature. I asked him to do that. (The A/C was off before he came,
> >>>as it wasn't working right, so it's only been running for a couple
> >>>minutes.) He went back to his van and got a thermometer (laser,
> >>>interesting). The output temperature was 70 deg, and the house was 82
> >>>deg. I said it should be 20 deg. "Why do you think it should be 20 deg
> >>>different?" he says. I told him that's what I found on the internet.
> >>>He checked more wires with his probe for another 5 minutes, then
> >>>checked the temperature again. It now said 64 deg (18 deg different).
> >>>He said it had to run for a while to get to that temp. (Recall, he
> >>>just asked why I thought is should be 20 deg.) I explained the
> >>>problem of it not cooling down below 83 deg in 7 hours, and never
> >>>having an electric bill like we just had in the year and a half we'd
> >>>already been here. He didn't have anything to say, and didn't check
> >>>anything else. He never looked at the outside part of the unit. I
> >>>asked if he had a contractor HVAC license as he was leaving. He said
> >>>yes. I said I'd come down with him and write the number down. When I
> >>>got to his van he said I'm not giving you my contractors number, the
> >>>landlord has it. I said I need to keep proper records because the
> >>>cooling bill is outragous, and the A/C is not cooling the apartment.
> >>>He wouldn't give it to me. I said well then I'll write down your plate
> >>>number and write the state about it.
>
> >>>(Also, he said the previous problem las month was a broken relay.)
>
> >>>Unfortunately, the law doesn't require him to have a license. I just
> >>>found the following on the net:
> >>>G.S. 87-21 (c) To Whom Article Applies. - The provisions of this
> >>>Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage
> >>>in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or
> >>>fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in
> >>>this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those
> >>>who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed
> >>>system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make
> >>>repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire
> >>>sprinkler system.
>
> >>I can see your attitude & problem solving skills are really moving
> >>that ball forward. :)
>
> >>quoting law / code ain't going to get your apt cooled off
>
> >>must really suck to be you.........hope it's not too hot today for
> >>you :)
>
> > I asked if he had a license as he was leaving. Can you read?
>
> > The guy was obviously pretty clueless about A/C.
>
> > I'll be writing a detailed letter to the landlord, and the state
> > licensing board (they may have some input even though he apparently
> > doesn' have to know what he's doing).
>
> Y'know Carie, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
>
> My curious mind wants to know....Are you married or single?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Jeffry Wisnia
> (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
> The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.
Never married. Only do long-term-relationships with one person. Single
for 3 months, after the last relationship of 2 years. Dating casually.
I don't have to approach, but I do because I know what I want. I
typically only date people with IQs above 135 (thats about a 1340 on
the old SAT) - otherwise we wouldn't relate.
== 16 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:48 pm
From: "HeyBub"
carie_r@mail.com wrote:
> On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" <heybubNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> cari...@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
>>> is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
>>> "hours" if it wasn't...
>>
>> Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post
>> meridian" = past midday). That would be midnight. From there to
>> 7:46PM means the ac has been on for almost twenty hours.
>>
>> Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
>> midday) which would also be midnight.
>
>
> Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
> native language??
Sorry, 12:00PM is not noon.
I do have a high school diploma (and several others including post-graduate
degrees). English IS my native tongue, although I can get along in a few
others, including Pig Latin and Morse Code. And, before you ask, I have been
to parts of South Georgia.
Sorry if I seemed pedantic or persnickety.
== 17 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:54 pm
From: "HeyBub"
mm wrote:
>
> ====> On July 3, I was a at a supermarket that had a temporary sign,
> and someone had written "Open July 4, 7AM to 12AM, and then it had a
> dark P written over the second A.
>
>
Panda eats, shoots and leaves.
== 18 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 5:59 pm
From: mm
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:30:27 -0500, "Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
>> The landlord is required to keep the A/C working properly. Are you
>> suggesting that underhanded behavior is so common as to be practically
>> expected?
>
>Only from landlords whos only concern is their profits on the bottom line.
>They are not gonna spend a penny they are not forced to.
Even that I would not call underhanded.
adv. In a sly and secret way.
adj. Marked by or done in a deceptive, secret, or sly manner;
dishonest and sneaky. See Synonyms at secret.
Not doing something at all or hiring the cheapest guy is not clever
enough to be sly, and almost no landlord says how much he pays for
repairs.
My landlord finally had both elevators overhauled -- the repair guys
were there for days -- so they never broke again while I was there,
and must have spent a bundle, but he didn't tell us how much even when
he spent a lot.
== 19 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:01 pm
From: Smitty Two
In article <13902hbrs5tn3ab@news.supernews.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
> carie_r@mail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 7:29 am, "HeyBub" <heybubNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> cari...@mail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's been running non-stop since 12:00 PM, it's 7:46PM, and the temp
> >>> is still 83 deg, thermostat still at 80 deg. I would not have said
> >>> "hours" if it wasn't...
> >>
> >> Hmm. 12:00PM implies twelve hours past midday (p.m. = "post
> >> meridian" = past midday). That would be midnight. From there to
> >> 7:46PM means the ac has been on for almost twenty hours.
> >>
> >> Of course one could also say 12:00AM (a.m. = "ante meridian" = before
> >> midday) which would also be midnight.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, 12:00PM is noon. Have a High School diploma?? Is English your
> > native language??
>
> Sorry, 12:00PM is not noon.
>
> I do have a high school diploma (and several others including post-graduate
> degrees). English IS my native tongue, although I can get along in a few
> others, including Pig Latin and Morse Code. And, before you ask, I have been
> to parts of South Georgia.
>
> Sorry if I seemed pedantic or persnickety.
Sorry, 12:00 p.m. *is* noon.
== 20 of 20 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 10:15 pm
From: "Tony"
Carie
I am not AC person however I am refrigeration Tech. representing OEMs
from many parts of our country. I have read about dozens answers
and I had it enough. In my opinion any central domestic unit
if can't bring temperature down to 72 in let say 3 hours is not worth
having, so you tell you service people fix it or install new one
there is no excuse for something like that. leave unit running for
hours leave unit running overnight bullshit if was me two hours
would be a limit. from reading some info. that unit seems to be
around two ton which it should be enough unless your cool air
is going some place ales, like cracked duct work and your unit is
cooling parking lot or roof.
<carie_r@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1183764250.640399.227540@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> It's 90 deg. outside, humidity is 37%. The A/C is set to 80 deg. The
> temp in the apartment is at 83 deg, and hasn't gone below that. The A/
> C has been running non-stop for hours. The temp out of the vents is
> colder than the air in the apartment, but not a lot colder. (I don't
> have a thermometer.)
>
> Maintenance fixed the A/C only a month ago when it completely quit
> working. Our electric bill that month was $320 for a 800 sq ft
> apartment.
>
> Maintenance is coming tomorrow. How do I make sure they fix the unit
> right, or make the landlord replace it if it won't work properly? The
> electric bill is outragous.
>
> The unit doesn't show a manufacturing date, and I can't find the model
> no. on the manufacturer's website. Here's what the stickers say:
> Goodman Manufacturing Co, 1501 Seamist Dr,
> Houston, TX 77008
> Model No. AW30-05C
> Part No. 20203-23
> Regrig 22
> Design PSIG 150
> Heater Amps 208/240V
> Motor 1PH 60HZ 3.5 Amps 1/3 HP
> Single Circuit 17.3/20.0
> Min Circuit Ampicity 26/29
> Max Overcurrent Protection 30/30
> UL Listed - G0587770080
>
> Also, once the unit works properly, how much more does it cost to keep
> the apartment at 76 as opposed to 80 (above conditions)?
>
> Thanks
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best electric fan for home?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef11c375f0215275?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:18 pm
From: "Melissa"
<cleanfan00112@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vaydnWm2P5lIZRPbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> I just started shopping for a good, powerful, electric fan, as electricity
> costs in the northeastern part of the US are wild. With the heatwaves
> we've had over the last few years (thank you global warming), I'm tired of
> running the AC constantly.
>
> Anyway, I've checked out the Lakewood HV18C (approx. $50) and the Lasko
> 4924 (approx $70). I don't think an oscillating fan is necessary as that
> usually means papers go flying. I've also noticed that it's hard to find
a
> reasonably priced tall standing fan. In addition, many are made of cheap
> plastic and not the metal I was accustomed to 20+ years ago.
>
> The last fan I purchased was several years ago - a Bionaire which is
> completely plastic, and can't even be opened for cleaning! The insides
are
> full of grime and soot. So much for the clean air company.
>
>
> Any recommendations?
We bought a Lasko tower fan a few years ago. It has a remote and a timer,
which is great. It doesn't take up a lot of space, which is why we wanted a
tower type. It has 3 settings, and oscillates if we want it to. The first
one died after one season, and Lasko sent us a new one for free after I
emailed them. This one works fine. Our family room gets hot (not vented
well), so we set the fan up in the doorway to bring cooler air from the
dining room back here. It's not overly loud either which we like.
Melissa
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 4:21 pm
From: "Melissa"
"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:468f2b7d$0$3107$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Zilbandy wrote:
> > On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:22:13 -0500, cleanfan00112@nospam.com wrote:
> >
> >> I just started shopping for a good, powerful, electric fan, as
electricity
> >> costs in the northeastern part of the US are wild.
> >
> > Have you given any thought to a good ceiling fan? We just put one in
> > living room and the bedroom and I don't know why we didn't do this
> > years ago.
We are in the process of removing every ceiling fan from our house. I can't
stand them running above my head, they make me dizzy. They are a pain to
clean as well, and most have lousy light fixtures. I can't wait until the
remaining 3 are gone. I never noticed any improvement in moving heat down
or pulling heat up. They're nothing but dust magnets.
Melissa
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 3:42 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 16:21:21 -0500, "Melissa" <nospam@neo.rr.com>
wrote:
>
>"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:468f2b7d$0$3107$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Zilbandy wrote:
>> > On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:22:13 -0500, cleanfan00112@nospam.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> I just started shopping for a good, powerful, electric fan, as
>electricity
>> >> costs in the northeastern part of the US are wild.
>> >
>> > Have you given any thought to a good ceiling fan? We just put one in
>> > living room and the bedroom and I don't know why we didn't do this
>> > years ago.
>
>We are in the process of removing every ceiling fan from our house. I can't
>stand them running above my head, they make me dizzy. They are a pain to
>clean as well, and most have lousy light fixtures. I can't wait until the
>remaining 3 are gone. I never noticed any improvement in moving heat down
>or pulling heat up. They're nothing but dust magnets.
>
Agree about lousy lights. They collect dust, but that's good. Just
clean it off. It kept the dust from settling elsewhere or going into
your lungs.
I don't notice the blades unless I stick my arms up under the fan
while pulling off a shirt. I learned not to do that. We have 8'
ceilings and I mounted them all flush, so that may be a difference.
All are fairly large blades - 36" - 44", except the one in the
bathroom, which is 24". It's pretty worthless except on high speed.
Never use them in the winter. Any air movement on the skin offsets
any comfort gained by bringing heat down - my experience anyway.
In summer they probably allow us about 5 degree before turning on the
air. When the air is on they allow us to be comfortable with the
thermo set at 80 instead of maybe 77-78. They use very little
electricity.
A winner for us.
--Vic
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fast $ - Proven Results
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ee490b6897e240d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 1:25 pm
From: starlighttrt@aol.com
FEATURED AND PROVEN TO WORK ON OPRAH, 20/20, DATELINE, PLUS OTHER TV
SHOWS, AND IS A BIG HIT THIS YEAR...
I gave it a try, hey its only $6, I figured at least 6 people would
respond out of the MILLIONS of people that use the internet.
You should give it a try too!
You have nothing to lose, and a whole lot to gain!
Months ago I was surfing for a quick way to fund a vacation and have
some extra spending money.... just like you are now and came across an
article similar to this that said you could make thousands dollars
within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00!
So I thought, "This was just another scam",
but like most of us, I was curious and needing money so I kept
reading.
Anyway, it said that you send $1.00 though paypal to each of the
emails stated in the article.
You then place your own email address in the bottom of the list at #6,
and post the article in at least 200 news groups. (There are a lot)
So after thinking about it, I went ahead and tried it.
I figured what have I got to lose except $6.00 small dollars, right?
That's just a combo meal at Mcdonalds!
Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about
the legal aspects of it.
It follows the same regulations as the "mailed chain letters, which
according to the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) is indeed legal!
So I took the chance and invested $6!
Well GUESS WHAT!!?
Within days, I started getting money in my paypal account!
I was shocked!
I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in.
It's Certainly worth $6.00.
Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works?
REQUIREMENTS:
You must have a verified paypal account.
If you do not have an account you can go to www.paypal.com
and get a free account.
I would suggest signing up for a business account because it does not
limit you to the amount of money you can receive.
Example: with a Personal account you are limited to receiving $500.00
a month and withdrawing $500.00 a month.
And trust me you WILL be receiving more than $500.00 a month!
Like I mentioned before In order to place the initial $6 into your
account, you will have to verify your bank account with paypal (which
may take a few days).
STEP 1:
Send, through paypal, $1.00 to each email addresses on the below list.
Make the subject of the payment "Email List" and in the comments,
write "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR EMAIL LIST." What you are doing is
creating a service by this and best of all you are not giving your
address to anyone ... THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!
The email list:
Here is the list:
1. limey8501@hotmail.com
2. jjseneca@yahoo.com
3. dvvayne@aol.com
4. mynicia24@msn.com
5. Carolyn.holcomb@us.army.mil
6. starlighttrt@aol.com
STEP 2:
Now take the ..1 email off the list that you see above, move the other
addresses up(6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc) and add YOUR email
address (the one used on the paypal account) as number 6 on the list.
STEP 3:
Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to
original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200
newsgroups, message board. (I think there are close to 32,000 groups)
All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money
you make - as well as everyone else on the list!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal way to get money from Do Not Call Law violators
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6508a62b831eed5d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 7 2007 2:16 pm
From: Al Bundy
On Jul 7, 1:10 am, William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote:
> First, this works best if you can determine the company is is your own
> state. My examples apply to California.
> If you can get contact information lat them know that they violated
> the law. Do not accept excuses or offers to be placed on their internal
> list. They have the legal obligation to be sure you are not called.
> Tell them you plan to sue in small claims for $100 and offer these
> choices:
>
> Pay $100 in ten days and there will be not further action.
> If you you do file tell them will not accept less than $250 as a
> settlement plus filing costs.\
> If it goes to court you will request the full amount.
>
> I have done this 5 times. Three times I got $100 the other two it was
> $250 plus costs after I filed.
>
> The most recent was last week after I got a recorded call about a
> "free vacation" Calls to the number either got voice mail or rude people
> who hung up when I tried to get information. I then feigned interest,
> gave a live person a fake name and my hotmail address. A few minutes
> later an email confirmation came with all the company info I needed,
> I called and very polite person expressed concern and asked to hear
> the message. He called back ten minutes later, claimed they had c
> contracted out the calls, was upset and was firing the company. Asked
> for my address. Two days later a check arrived.
> My guess is that the firm was not fired and the money is simply a
> business cost to them but imagine is just 5 percent of us did this.
We could afford a spell checker or at least read what we post.
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