Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

Monday, October 15, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why does olive oil & vinnegar (mixed) need to be refrigerated anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:24 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <c%AQi.6197$lE2.1930@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, Jeanette
> Guire <jeanetteguire@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when
>> mixed (as in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it
>> to be refrigerated (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>
>> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt
>> from a microbial culture standpoint?
>>
>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>> refrigerated?
>
> I noted various responses to this thread, but my opinion is that it's
> the *spices* that will most likely cause a potential problem by
> introducing a suite of chemicals that microbes will find useful for
> growth. (As well as probably introducing a nice selection of
> bacterial spores to start the rot, so to speak. :-)

Doesnt explain why the ready to use stuff with the spices already in it keeps
fine until its opened and needs to be refrigerated once its been opened.

> Also, as others mentioned, bugs that may be able to metabolise
> pure olive oil probably require some moisture present to do their
> thing, and that would be provided by the vinegar.

See above.

> Further, if the pH of the final brew is higher than the magic figure
> (4.6?) then some common nasties will be able to grow in it.

See above.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:26 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Jeanette Guire <jeanetteguire@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when
>> mixed (as in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it
>> to be refrigerated (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>
>> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt
>> from a microbial culture standpoint?
>>
>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>> refrigerated?
>
> As I understand it, the garlic and other herbs put in the dressing may
> have botulism spores on them, the oil provides the environment for the
> botulism to grow. The vinegar doesn't stop the growth because it
> separates too easily from the mix.

Doesnt explain why the ready to use stuff keeps fine unrefrigerated
but you need to refrigerate it once its been opened.

> You may be able to avoid refrigeration if you
> first infuse the herbs and garlic in pure vinegar.

You're unlikely to be able to do that in a sterile situation without a lot of trouble.

> However I think the likelihood of spoilage is greater if you do this.

Corse it is.

> (It may not be toxic, but it will taste bad.)

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:11 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Jeanette Guire wrote:
> Neither olive oil nor vinnegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed (as
> in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be refrigerated
> (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>
> What is different about olive oil + vinnegar + a few spices & salt from a
> microbial culture standpoint?
>
> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
> refrigerated?

Cheap olive oil goes rancid faster than good oil because cheap oil is
more acidic. Also, if you keep your olive oil refrigerated, you may get
condensation in the oil when you have the cold bottle out and open.
Moisture may soon spoil the flavor.

So when you add vinegar and water, the oil will deteriorate faster.
Each time you shake it, you mix air into it.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:18 pm
From: "John Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>>>>>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which
>>>>>> doesn't itself need to be refrigerated?
>>>
>>>>> Essentially because the mixing will normally end up contaminating
>>>>> the mixture, if only because the container wont be sterile.
>>>
>>>> They technically weren't sterile beforehand either.
>>>
>>> The containers they came in were near enough.
>
>> Not nearly...clean is a far cry from "sterile"
>
> They're pretty close to sterile in practice.

Nope. Once the containers are opened, they are no longer sterile. After
being used many times and opened & closed repeatedly, they are no longer
sterile. The container used for the mixture may be as clean or cleaner
than the bottles of oil & vinegar.

FWIW, many restaurants keep salad dressings in unrefrigerated containers.
If you use them up in a reasonable time (a few days) there is no need to
refrigerate them.

OTOH, repeated shaking of the mixture will aerate it, and possibly
accelerate the oxidation of the olive oil, which will change its taste and
aroma. Refrigeration may help delay that oxidation.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 2:00 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

Perhaps if you mix it up enough, the acetic acid in the vinegar denatures
some of the oil. The resulting mixture may be less acidic, and therefore
easier for microbes to grow in. Plus, as some have mentioned, the act of
pouring both ingredients into a mixing container probably contaminates it
with at least a few microbes anyway.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 11:36 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 13, 5:11 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
> Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
> local economy also.

What the hell are we supposed to eat when the ground is frozen solid
for months on end?

Get a grip.

Cindy Hamilton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollars Stores and Liquid Soap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:08 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

A Veteran wrote:
> In article <slrnfh51nb.os0.don@manx.misty.com>,
>> Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
>> batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name when it
>> was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete battery
>> technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap lightweights that
>> underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the usual now.
>
> our local hardware store has 'em for $.75

Remember when Radio Shack had its "Battery Club"?

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
He who knows only his own side of the case
knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:14 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-6907A0.21372114102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> >> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> > Build the Fence!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>> >> >
>> >> > The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
>> >> > soil, the law says they get to stay.
>> >>
>> >> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>> >
>> > I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to
>> > stay
>> > here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>>
>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and
>> those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the
>> line"?
>
> Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But there is the fact that one is
> illegal and the other is not...

the only important fact is, it is our government who decides who is legal
and who is illegal. So, it is our government who can decide to turn what is
otherwise considered illegal to be legal.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:15 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ngj7lFi1sduU1@mid.individual.net...
> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>>> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>> In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>> In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Build the Fence!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to
>>>>>> U.S. soil, the law says they get to stay.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to
>>>> stay here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>>>
>>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the
>>> line" and those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping
>>> ahead of the line"?
>
>> It's part of a program President Kennedy or Johnson put in place for the
>> bang up job they did in the Bay of Pigs.
>
> No it isnt, it preceeded that.

What preceded that?

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:18 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nfk08Fhnqo7U1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have
>>>>>> now.
>
>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of
>>>>> illegals.
>
>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did
>>>> not even mention NAFTA.
>
>>> Its a similar economic change.
>
>> Why is it "similar"?
>
> Because its another way of getting economic change.

Ageed
>
>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is not
>>>> intended to fix the problem), are you going to argue that it won't
>>>> "help"?
>
>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
>>> that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that their
>>> prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.

Agreed again, but it helps....
>
>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not
>> otherwise have,
>
> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

huh?
>
>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this
>> country illegally?
>
> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA still
> provides them with much worse living standards than moving to the US does.
>
so? Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico
rather than enter this country illegally?

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:22 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nfk6qFhutn1U1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>>> It works in Israel.
>
>>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>
>>>>>> why son't it work?
>
>>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
>
>>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United
>>>> States.
>
>>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the
>>> Cubans.
>
>>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States
>>>> over water?
>
>>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have to.
>
>>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>
>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more
>>>>>> difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>
>>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.
>
>>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?
>
>>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.
>
>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?
>
>>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.
>
>> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their birth to
>> seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to have a government
>> in their country that adopts the right policy, that eliminates the
>> causes.
>
> Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
> birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.

It is not the birthrate that is the problem, it is the fact that their
government has not adopted polices to help these who live in their country
to live a reasonably good life. If the birth rate is high, then they just
have to adopt policies that can accomodate that higher birth rate.
>
> Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL sees
> a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if they were
> allowed to, because the living standards are so much better in the US.
>

Which tells you that ultimately it depends on having the right politcy.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>>>> It works in Israel.

>>>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.

>>>>>>> why son't it work?

>>>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.

>>>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United States.

>>>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the Cubans.

>>>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States over water?

>>>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have to.

>>>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.

>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much
>>>>>>> more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.

>>>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.

>>>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?

>>>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.

>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?

>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>>>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>>>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.

>>> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their
>>> birth to seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to
>>> have a government in their country that adopts the right policy,
>>> that eliminates the causes.

>> Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
>> birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.

> It is not the birthrate that is the problem,

Corse it is.

> it is the fact that their government has not adopted polices to help these who live in their country to live a
> reasonably good life.

Not even possible with the birth rate they have.

You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that has
worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.

> If the birth rate is high, then they just have to adopt policies that can accomodate that higher birth rate.

No such animal.

You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that has
worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.

>> Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL sees
>> a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if they were
>> allowed to, because the living standards are so much better in the US.

> Which tells you that ultimately it depends on having the right politcy.

You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that has
worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.

>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.

>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did not even mention NAFTA.

>>>> Its a similar economic change.

>>> Why is it "similar"?

>> Because its another way of getting economic change.

> Ageed

>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you
>>>>> going to argue that it won't "help"?

>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
>>>> that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that
>>>> their prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.

> Agreed again, but it helps....

Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.

>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not otherwise have,

>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

> huh?

China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.

>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this country illegally?

>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA still provides them with much worse living
>> standards than moving to the US does.

> so?

So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico wont
actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing to move
to the US, essentially because whatever is done in Mexico will STILL
see them with much worse living standards in mexico than in the US.

> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?

Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:19 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5ngj7lFi1sduU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>> In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>>> In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Build the Fence!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to
>>>>>>> U.S. soil, the law says they get to stay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get
>>>>> to stay here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>>>>
>>>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the
>>>> line" and those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping
>>>> ahead of the line"?
>>
>>> It's part of a program President Kennedy or Johnson put in place
>>> for the bang up job they did in the Bay of Pigs.
>>
>> No it isnt, it preceeded that.
>
> What preceded that?

That business about them being allowed to stay if
they made it to the US preceeded the Bay of Pigs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apples
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/408e635a462df7fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:18 pm
From: "Jon von Leipzig@mayday.com"

On Oct 9, 2:05 pm, "charleymccorm...@gmail.com"
<charleymccorm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On thisapplethingy, do give your theory on how China managed to grow
> > from nothing to its domination in so short a time. That's the OP's
> > question I tried to answer. He and I am certainly very interested in
> > another explanation.

>>The fact that China is developing newer methods to detect pesticides on apples
>>proves the point that they are in use...

Wonder if they're also developing (or copying?) ways to detect
pesticides inside the apples, too.

Systemics (absorbed thru leaves/roots) have been in use for years.
Years ago, Gerbers, to their credit, stopped buying apples
from suppliers who used a potentially harmful class of pesticides
(organophosphates, I think). Even after wasing, peeling, coring,
they still had hig levels of these critters, which were never tested
on children/infants.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:37 pm
From: "Jon von Leipzig@mayday.com"

On Oct 11, 5:14 pm, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:11:33 -0700, shinypenny
>
>
>
> <shinypenny0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 10, 11:09 am, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> "I made 400 yuan when I planted corn and wheat," Mr. Wang said,
> >> recalling the time in the 1980's before he transformed his one-acre
> >> field into an apple orchard. "Now, I make 5,000 yuan. And in some
> >> years 10,000." (One yuan is worth about 12 cents.) In the best of
> >> times, some apple growers in Lining said they made 50,000 yuan.
>
> >Heh. Corn and wheat have long been subsidized by the U.S. gov't. We
> >could easily be accused of dumping our surplus for cheap on the rest
> >of the world.
>
> >So the chinese have learned to play our own game, but with fruit
> >instead of carbs. Good for them.
>
> >jen
>
>
> * Read "China's Boomtowns" in the June 2007 issue of National
> Geographic. Any entrepreuner with a successful idea, say making bra
> clips, has a good time only for a year or two. Very soon his
> neighbors and his former workers set up their own production
> facilities and compete with the pioneer. Whole towns become the
> global manufacturing center for metal bra clips, cigarette lighters,
> cheap watches, or what have you. The competition and growth is
> humongous. No government intervention or subsidy needed.

It seems in China there's no need to strain your brain. There's a
booming
business in making copies of other peeps ideas. Think NG mag also
did
a piece on "Copycat Boomtowns" in China??? There's dozens of towns,
even a few provinces specializing in mfging fake goods.For years,
Wenzhou was
noted for copying P&G products. Then there's Kaihua, the "Phillips"
light bulb town.
The entire province of Henan was at one time, the capital of fakery.

If I could, I'd require the US gubmint or buyers of apple concentrate
from China to test a high pct upon arrival.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Old hillbilly trick
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/43174d8ee314b8f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:30 pm
From: Shadowland

Instead of buying "Chaplips" lip gloss...stick your finger in your
ear. Ear wax is an excellent
lip gloss substitution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:35 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

I'm planning on getting my wife a box of malted milk balls - her
favorite - and writing a poem for her. The day is about showing you
remembered and that you appreciate the person with a small gift (usually
edible), not about trying to get huge or expensive gifts.

Just wondering what everyone else is planning on doing to show their
appreciation for their significant other on Sweetest Day this year?
Something sweet, I hope!

http://www.theromantic.com/sweetestday.htm

http://www.theholidayspot.com/sweetest_day/

Sweetest Day is Saturday, October 20 this year

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 12:36 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

Just wondering what everyone else is planning on doing to show their
appreciation for their significant other on Sweetest Day this year?
Something sweet, I hope!

http://www.theromantic.com/sweetestday.htm

http://www.theholidayspot.com/sweetest_day/

Sweetest Day is Saturday, October 20 this year

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

To ignore what is just another stupid con job.

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
> I'm planning on getting my wife a box of malted milk balls - her
> favorite - and writing a poem for her. The day is about showing you
> remembered and that you appreciate the person with a small gift
> (usually edible), not about trying to get huge or expensive gifts.
>
> Just wondering what everyone else is planning on doing to show their
> appreciation for their significant other on Sweetest Day this year?
> Something sweet, I hope!
>
>
> http://www.theromantic.com/sweetestday.htm
>
> http://www.theholidayspot.com/sweetest_day/
>
> Sweetest Day is Saturday, October 20 this year

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:55 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

>To ignore what is just another stupid con job.

How so? I spoke to my Grandfather, and he says most folks around here
have celebrated it since he was a kid. (and he's 84)

It is also on our wall calendar.

Why would you consider an opportunity to show your appreciation to someone
you love (at little cost, I might add) to be a con job?

50 years ago, Sweetest Day was mostly celebrated in the Midwest. However,
as jobs moved, the Interstates were built, and people started becoming more
mobile, they took their local holidays with them, including Sweetest Day.

That is why Texas, California and Florida are now up in the top 10 as far
as # of people celebrating Sweetest Day. Just 10 years ago, it was still
all Midwest states.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale Jordans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/781db823857a9922?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:27 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

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high quality products at a competitive price.
elcome to vist our website htttp://www.nikekickcoo.com
E-mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com
yahoo massege:linda10226@yahoo.com.cn
Welcome to hongfeng trade co.,ltd!We Wholesale many various famous
brands of sport shoes,bags,clothes and so on !
We Wholesale Nike Sneakers,Jordan,adidas,puma.bape nike air force 1s
Sneakers
Wholesale Handbags Sneakers,Wholesale Purses,Wholesale Sandals,nike
air dunks,Nike shox,
Nike Air max tn plus,Nike air max Nike air rift.we can offer you with
high quality products at a competitive price.
elcome to vist our website htttp://www.nikekickcoo.com
E-mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com
yahoo massege:linda10226@yahoo.com.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: we accept paypal Wholesale nike air jordans adidas puma bape,from www.
freshnesskicks.com,China
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4c172e620ff9cc9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:27 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 07 new A&F coat ,new bape jeans,hoody
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a014527b1299979?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:31 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

Dear sir or madam,
we accept paypal We are the one of the biggest suppliers in China for
shoes and
clothing our website:1.http://www.nikekickcoo.com MSN&E-
mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com and linda10226@yahoo.com &We sell all
kinds of brand shoes,as belows,
&Nike:Shox(TN,TL,NZ,oz,R3,R4,Turbo,Ride)//max James(1-4)//Dunk//
Kobe//
Jordan(1-22)//Airforce1//&Adidas:TMC//Coloradidas//Goodyear&Puma///
Gucci///Prade///Timberland///Bapestar/// &&We also sell brand
clothes,
Welcome to hongfeng trade co.,ltd!We Wholesale many various famous
brands of sport shoes,bags,clothes and so on !
We Wholesale Nike Sneakers,Jordan,adidas,puma.bape nike air force 1s
Sneakers
Wholesale Handbags Sneakers,Wholesale Purses,Wholesale Sandals,nike
air dunks,Nike shox,
Nike Air max tn plus,Nike air max Nike air rift.we can offer you with
high quality products at a competitive price.
elcome to vist our website htttp://www.nikekickcoo.com
E-mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com
yahoo massege:linda10226@yahoo.com.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: we accept paypal Wholesale nike air jordans adidas puma bape,from www.
nikekickcoo.com,China
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3baa8c18a382d4cb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 1:31 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

Welcome to hongfeng trade co.,ltd!We Wholesale many various famous
brands of sport shoes,bags,clothes and so on !
We Wholesale Nike Sneakers,Jordan,adidas,puma.bape nike air force 1s
Sneakers
Wholesale Handbags Sneakers,Wholesale Purses,Wholesale Sandals,nike
air dunks,Nike shox,
Nike Air max tn plus,Nike air max Nike air rift.we can offer you with
high quality products at a competitive price.
elcome to vist our website htttp://www.nikekickcoo.com
E-mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com
yahoo massege:linda10226@yahoo.com.cn
Dear sir or madam,
we accept paypal We are the one of the biggest suppliers in China for
shoes and
clothing our website:1.http://www.nikekickcoo.com MSN&E-
mail:linda.ch26@hotmail.com and linda10226@yahoo.com &We sell all
kinds of brand shoes,as belows,
&Nike:Shox(TN,TL,NZ,oz,R3,R4,Turbo,Ride)//max James(1-4)//Dunk//
Kobe//
Jordan(1-22)//Airforce1//&Adidas:TMC//Coloradidas//Goodyear&Puma///
Gucci///Prade///Timberland///Bapestar/// &&We also sell brand clothes,

==============================================================================

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Monday, October 15, 2007

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