Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 14 topics

Saturday, December 8, 2007

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Work At Home - forex trading
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fbb1482c2c200a1c?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 9:49 am
From: nagi54

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reverse Hiring Bonus: Legal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01bee59f170fec8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 10:27 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

Chloe wrote:
> "Jon v Leipzig" <JVL@myday.com> wrote in message
> news:475AB3D1.1060001@myday.com...
>> jdrews88@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I think that's a dumb idea. Very sad, you think your strongest point is
>> cash in your hand. Any HR person can sense you think you have little else
>> to offer the company, so why should they hire you??
>>
>> Try this:
>> Get a pen and paper, find a quiet place where you can concentrate.
>>
>> Make a list of at least a half dozen reasons why they should hire you.
>> examples; "I'm good at...."" "I have x amount of experience in...""
>
> I'm not sure the OP was implying his strongest point was cash. I think he
> was looking more for an angle that would distinguish him from other
> job-seekers and provide him some kind of relatively unique advantage. Your
> advice, while solid, hardly fits that category. Anyone who's had a single
> successful job interview in their lives knows to apply the general principle
> of what you suggest.
>
> I think the offer to work for free was the best advice I'd seen on the
> thread.
>

I do think it's possible he's convinced his positive attributes aren't enuf.

Obviously, it's been quite a while since he's had a successful
interview. Imo, he's no longer a typical job-hunter. Sounds
discouraged/dejected, hence the advice to write some things down. Maybe
he'll get a Brainstorm of some kind.

If I were in HR, think I'd consider an applicant offering to work 4 free
as maybe too desperate. Besides, a free "trial period" may be
meaningless. Peeps are always on their best behavior initially,
especially if they want/need something. (ask my ex-gf's)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 8:09 am
From: George Grapman

Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote:
> In article <RRH5j.29018$lD6.10460@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
> sfgeorge@paccbell.net says...
>> Lou wrote:
>>> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1Mz5j.79375$Um6.7977@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>>>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>>>>>> In article
>>>>> snip
>
>>>>>> I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
>>>>>> would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
>>>>>> $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
>>>>>> to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
>>>>>> week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
>>>>>> ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
>>>>>> an area where jobs are available.
>
>>>>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
>>>>> voluntarily, at a regular type company.
>
>
>>>> There are exceptions such as a commission only job. For many years
>>>> those jobs took out out no payroll deductions. The companies liked it
>>>> because they avoided Social Security, unemployment,etc while some worker
>>>> likes the idea of no withholding and they simply ignored the yearly 1099.
>>>> In the 90's the IRS ruled that if the company provides you with a
>>>> place to work along with needed tools you are a commissioned employee
>>>> and are subject to withholding.
>
>
>>> Even in commission only jobs, the employer must pay you a minimum wage if
>>> you don't earn that much in commissions. It's usually done as a draw
>>> against commission, and you pay the employer back when your earn commissions
>>> in excess of minimum wage.
>
>
>> Correct, but independent contractors are exempted. Sometime in, I
>> think, the early 90's the definition of independent contractor was
>> changed to meet the criteria that I mentioned in my earlier post.
>
>
> I know someone who worked on commission in the US in the
> early-mid 90s. At more than one employer. And there was never
> any mention of any minimum wage floor. Just straight commission.
>
> The hours weren't really counted, since there was a required
> latest-starting and earliest-stopping window, but, in practice,
> there was work going on before and after.
>
> Interestingly, the employers also screwed around with the taxes,
> and issued both a W-2 employee form, AND a 1099 independent
> contractor form, with the worker's pay split between the two. I
> think their excuse was related to the worker's vehicle expense
> deductions. Some time after one of those jobs, an issue arose
> where the state tax authoriTAH gave an official confirmation
> basically stating, "You were an employee for all of your
> earnings, and NOT a contractor."

I worked at an office as in independent contractor before the rules
changed. One individual boasted that he always threw away his 1099 and
never paid taxes.One day the IRS called him st work asking him to come
in an work out a payment plan. He hung up. A few days later they placed
a lien on his salary. He quit and found another job. I ran into him a
few years ago and he is pretty much limited to under the table jobs as
any time an employer withholds taxes the IRS pick it up after a few
months or sooner
>
> On those jobs, the total amount earned was OK, because, if the
> worker was productive, then the commissions would add up to more
> than minimum wage times the basic required schedule. But there
> was never any provision for any "guaranteed" minimum paycheque if
> the worker's productivity was lower than that threshold.
>
> Do you have a cite for that requirement? Perhaps it depends on
> the particular state?
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 5 Best Tips to Earn online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d460f3165bdb9e75?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 11:15 am
From: clams casino

Maria_Stylish the spammer wrote:

>
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>
>

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: change
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dada351212be093e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 11:18 am
From: clams casino

bob@coolgroups.com wrote:

>Let's say you have amassed a large collection of change (pennies,
>dimes, nickels).
>
>What is the smartest way to deal with it quickly?
>
>
>
Donate it to the nearest Salvation greeter / bell ringer.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 12:08 pm
From: Logan Shaw

bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
> Let's say you have amassed a large collection of change (pennies,
> dimes, nickels).
>
> What is the smartest way to deal with it quickly?

In my opinion, the smartest long-term way to deal with change is to find
easy ways to spend it. I put extra change in the self-checkout machines
at the grocery store, and this allows me to get rid of most of it.

However, you were more specific and said you want to deal with it quickly.
I think that changes the question a lot. Since transportation (specifically
gasoline) costs a lot of money, unless you have a lot of change (more than
$50 or something), it's probably not financially worth it to make an extra
trip to the bank even if they would deposit it for free.

So I'm thinking something like Coinstar is probably the best overall
compromise. In some cases, you can get them to convert it without a fee
if you apply the money toward a purchase, and you're probably already
going to the grocery store eventually, so that may be an option. Even if
you can't get it for free and you're paying 8.9%, it still may be worth
that to avoid spending extra gas money to go to the bank.

In fact, what if we do the math? Let's start by assuming your car gets
25 mpg, that your bank is 5 miles from your house, and that gas costs
$3.25/gallon. That means it costs $1.30 in gas for a round trip to the
bank (plus wear and tear on the car and the extra time, but we'll ignore
those). 8.9% of $14.60 is $1.30, so that's the break-even point given
those assumptions, and assuming the bank does it for free.

However, if you have, say, $100 or more in change, I think the answer
is probably a lot different.

- Logan

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 4:52 pm
From: bob@coolgroups.com

On Dec 8, 1:08 pm, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> b...@coolgroups.com wrote:
> > Let's say you have amassed a large collection of change (pennies,
> > dimes, nickels).
>
> > What is the smartest way to deal with it quickly?
>
> In my opinion, the smartest long-term way to deal with change is to find
> easy ways to spend it. I put extra change in the self-checkout machines
> at the grocery store, and this allows me to get rid of most of it.
>
> However, you were more specific and said you want to deal with it quickly.
> I think that changes the question a lot. Since transportation (specifically
> gasoline) costs a lot of money, unless you have a lot of change (more than
> $50 or something), it's probably not financially worth it to make an extra
> trip to the bank even if they would deposit it for free.
>
> So I'm thinking something like Coinstar is probably the best overall
> compromise. In some cases, you can get them to convert it without a fee
> if you apply the money toward a purchase, and you're probably already
> going to the grocery store eventually, so that may be an option. Even if
> you can't get it for free and you're paying 8.9%, it still may be worth
> that to avoid spending extra gas money to go to the bank.
>
> In fact, what if we do the math? Let's start by assuming your car gets
> 25 mpg, that your bank is 5 miles from your house, and that gas costs
> $3.25/gallon. That means it costs $1.30 in gas for a round trip to the
> bank (plus wear and tear on the car and the extra time, but we'll ignore
> those). 8.9% of $14.60 is $1.30, so that's the break-even point given
> those assumptions, and assuming the bank does it for free.
>
> However, if you have, say, $100 or more in change, I think the answer
> is probably a lot different.
>
> - Logan

Do banks typically have machines that process large quantities of

change automatically? Or, are they going to act like you're being a

jerk if you try to deposit a lot of change?

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 5:12 pm
From: "catalpa"

<bob@coolgroups.com> wrote in message
news:442d68e8-1549-4858-85f2-b4b5278ae855@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 8, 1:08 pm, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> b...@coolgroups.com wrote:
>> > Let's say you have amassed a large collection of change (pennies,
>> > dimes, nickels).
>>
>> > What is the smartest way to deal with it quickly?
>>
>> In my opinion, the smartest long-term way to deal with change is to find
>> easy ways to spend it. I put extra change in the self-checkout machines
>> at the grocery store, and this allows me to get rid of most of it.
>>
>> However, you were more specific and said you want to deal with it
>> quickly.
>> I think that changes the question a lot. Since transportation
>> (specifically
>> gasoline) costs a lot of money, unless you have a lot of change (more
>> than
>> $50 or something), it's probably not financially worth it to make an
>> extra
>> trip to the bank even if they would deposit it for free.
>>
>> So I'm thinking something like Coinstar is probably the best overall
>> compromise. In some cases, you can get them to convert it without a fee
>> if you apply the money toward a purchase, and you're probably already
>> going to the grocery store eventually, so that may be an option. Even if
>> you can't get it for free and you're paying 8.9%, it still may be worth
>> that to avoid spending extra gas money to go to the bank.
>>
>> In fact, what if we do the math? Let's start by assuming your car gets
>> 25 mpg, that your bank is 5 miles from your house, and that gas costs
>> $3.25/gallon. That means it costs $1.30 in gas for a round trip to the
>> bank (plus wear and tear on the car and the extra time, but we'll ignore
>> those). 8.9% of $14.60 is $1.30, so that's the break-even point given
>> those assumptions, and assuming the bank does it for free.
>>
>> However, if you have, say, $100 or more in change, I think the answer
>> is probably a lot different.
>>
>> - Logan
>
> Do banks typically have machines that process large quantities of
>
> change automatically? Or, are they going to act like you're being a
>
> jerk if you try to deposit a lot of change?
>

Commerce Bank branches provides free coin counting machine access to anyone
who walks into the bank.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Sample Pouch of FiberOne Cereal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9851d8bf4731a61d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 11:32 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

Free Sample Pouch of FiberOne Cereal
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=284

Enjoy!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning about Veterinarians
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ad7a1a303e4c055?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 11:39 am
From: Chuck Whealton

On Dec 7, 2:33 pm, me <m...@me.org> wrote:
> For a discussion of the money grubbing tactics of tucson veterinarians,
> see recent threads in rec.pets.cats.health+behavior ,
> rec.pets.cats.community and alt.pets.cats.
>
> Being in Tucson I find the vets main concern here is PROFIT above and
> beyone animal welfare. Since many of the people who frequent the usenet
> pets groups work in vet clinics, I thought I was largely alone until I
> happenstanced on this web page, put up by someone I do not know who has
> worked in vet clinics.http://tinyurl.com/2gqn3f
>
> And check out the shoddy job the Arizona State Licensing Board does with
> oversight of AZ Veterinarians (typical do nothing State Gov. with no
> standards)http://tinyurl.com/yq7f9r

Guy, there are probably a lot of vets that DO NOT put profit above all
else. I know how irritating it can be. The vet I've been using for
years left the practice she was at and at her new one (much further
away) they don't even take parrots.

As a result, I'm left going to a place that, as you mentioned, puts
profit above everything else.

I take my Orange Wing Amazon there and each time they want to sock me
with all these checkup charges, charge me outrageous prices for
medications, etc.

It's ridiculous. My bill has gone from around $40 to these jokers
wanting over $100 each time I go there, and right now, I can't find
any other vet that does parrots.

Ironically, as I type this, I see their advertisement to the right of
my screen. Figures...

However, to the point - not all vets are like the bad ones that you
(and I) are stuck going to. I just hope you have more choice for your
animal than I do.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 1:13 pm
From: ok

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in
news:MPG.21c426c89e2acb4798b297@news.individual.net:

> Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:33:31 +0000 (UTC) from me <me@me.org>:
>> Being in Tucson I find the vets main concern here is PROFIT above and
>> beyone animal welfare.
>
> If you're trying to convince anybody of anything, the way to do it is
> not by making broad generalizations like this.
>
> Tucson is a big place; it's awfully hard to believe you know the main
> concern" of every vet in the area. So we're left to assume you've had
> a bad experience with one or two, and are tarring all the rest with
> the same brush. That reflects on you, not them.

You have a point. However I called about 20 vets in Tucson. Not ONE
offered to do time payments, nor reduced fee for those on low fixed
income. NOT ONE. Some said, pay upfront. I said, you mean, like a common
prostitute? They have this kickback scam going with some credit card
company where they take all you personal information and issue you a
credit card from some shyster third party company. None of them do pro
bono work that I was told of. Bunch of mercernaries, imnsho.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 1:19 pm
From: nope

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:5rvusnF16o53sU1@mid.individual.net:

>> For a discussion of the money grubbing tactics
>> of tucson veterinarians...
>>
>
> Same thing these days with dentists, doctors, air conditioning/heating
> repair people, etc.

Human doctors still sometimes reduce fees for services, and offer
payment plans. But they have the Hippocratic Oath. The vets in Tucson
subscribe to the oath: SHOW ME THE MONEY, FIRST! Air cond. and other
tradesmen are not doctors and someone's health does not necessarily
depend on them. There are not sites on the net, albeit not very good
ones that rate and give consumer reviews for doctors and dentists. We
need such a site for vets so that people know which ones are the most
unprofessional. The horseshit state licensing agencies aren't going to
do anything, nor are the sham professional associations like the AMVA.

>
> This is why I research and learn about things on the internet first.
> Then I know if someone is giving me a line of whooey...
>
>

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 1:22 pm
From: yeah

ok, I know ALL vets are not bad. The vet I had in my home state of MN
would treat an animal regardless of the owners ability to pay. Ditto one
I met in N.M. I never said "ALL", I SAID the vets in Tucson, AZ.

Chuck Whealton <chuck_whealton@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fbac2fc6-868f-43eb-99fb-8b77dd24279e@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 7, 2:33 pm, me <m...@me.org> wrote:
>> For a discussion of the money grubbing tactics of tucson
>> veterinarians, see recent threads in rec.pets.cats.health+behavior ,
>> rec.pets.cats.community and alt.pets.cats.
>>
>> Being in Tucson I find the vets main concern here is PROFIT above and
>> beyone animal welfare. Since many of the people who frequent the
>> usenet pets groups work in vet clinics, I thought I was largely alone
>> until I happenstanced on this web page, put up by someone I do not
>> know who has worked in vet clinics.http://tinyurl.com/2gqn3f
>>
>> And check out the shoddy job the Arizona State Licensing Board does
>> with oversight of AZ Veterinarians (typical do nothing State Gov.
>> with no standards)http://tinyurl.com/yq7f9r
>
> Guy, there are probably a lot of vets that DO NOT put profit above all
> else. I know how irritating it can be. The vet I've been using for
> years left the practice she was at and at her new one (much further
> away) they don't even take parrots.
>
> As a result, I'm left going to a place that, as you mentioned, puts
> profit above everything else.
>
> I take my Orange Wing Amazon there and each time they want to sock me
> with all these checkup charges, charge me outrageous prices for
> medications, etc.
>
> It's ridiculous. My bill has gone from around $40 to these jokers
> wanting over $100 each time I go there, and right now, I can't find
> any other vet that does parrots.
>
> Ironically, as I type this, I see their advertisement to the right of
> my screen. Figures...
>
> However, to the point - not all vets are like the bad ones that you
> (and I) are stuck going to. I just hope you have more choice for your
> animal than I do.
>
> Charles R. Whealton
> Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 4:50 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

ok wrote:
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in
>> Tucson is a big place; it's awfully hard to believe you know the main
>> concern" of every vet in the area.
>
> You have a point. However I called about 20 vets in Tucson. Not ONE
> offered to do time payments, nor reduced fee for those on low fixed
> income. NOT ONE. Some said, pay upfront. I said, you mean, like a common
> prostitute?

Around here (Los Angeles) all the gas stations require payment up front.
I never would have thought to compare the practice with prostitutes even
if one might be called the town pump.

Here is a thought. If someone can't afford to keep an animal, which
includes paying for it's medical care, perhaps they shouldn't keep
one. Perhaps it's more compassionate to take the animal away from
someone who can't care for it properly than to leave it suffering in
bad living conditions.

Anthony

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 5:42 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in
>> Tucson is a big place; it's awfully hard to believe you know the main
>> concern" of every vet in the area.
>
> You have a point. However I called about 20 vets in Tucson. Not ONE
> offered to do time payments, nor reduced fee for those on low fixed
> income. NOT ONE. Some said, pay upfront. I said, you mean, like a common
> prostitute?

The vets here will do things like that for someone they have an existing
relationship with, but I think they have had too many new patients walk
to do it with someone they don't already know.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save money and help kids at the same time
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a97929495be206d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 12:54 pm
From: silkypup

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TOPIC: JOBS! Looking To Increase Your Income?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c09e9b68d4a09c51?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: www.200836.com-buy it now ,do you want to buy 2008 peking Olympic games
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/660b609e881f5e98?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 5:07 pm
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TOPIC: Is having a cash cow realistic?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b8c445778c9fc884?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 5:17 pm
From: letsconfide@gmail.com

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TOPIC: Very beautiful girls and many useful resources and more,please check it
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ce582f25650175b?hl=en
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Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 5:42 pm
From: pegclark

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TOPIC: Help shopping for neices and nephews
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/12d7626c0b564c6d?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 6:14 pm
From: "Lou"

Ok, over the years I've viewed the Christmas frenzy with equanimity. My
wife and I have gone our own way, some years spending a lot, some years
spending a little. Our natural tendency has been to be generous - within
our means - and to try to give gifts that the recipients would appreciate,
and by and large we've been successful.

But this year is different. My sister has 3 kids (triplets), two boys and a
girl, who will be 10 on Christmas Eve. For the last few years, Dad has
taken them to ToysRUs at the beginning of December, and the kids wander
around the store and make a wish list. This year, the store provided
scanners to the kids, so all they had to do was point the thing at the bar
code to add an item to their list.

So when we've asked what the kids would like for Christmas, there's a list
that each of the kids have put together. While I think that's a great idea,
things are out of hand - this year the cheapest item on each kid's list is
over $50, and frankly, I don't even know what any of these things are except
for an Xbox, but no way are we spending $1,000 bucks on electronic toys for
kids (naturally, each wants his/her own) - we don't spend that on toys for
ourselves.

And, though I hate to sound mercenary, my sister and her husband years ago
put a limit on Christmas spending - roughly around $20-$30/gift. They by
and large stick to that limit, and for themselves don't expect anything more
grandiose, and we've more or less gone along (it's poor taste to up the
ante, after all) but when it comes to the kids, they seem to feel
differently (what parent doesn't?). I find myself feeling that the exchange
of gifts will be pretty one-way.

So, anyone out there with kids around 10 years old? What do kids that age
play with these days? What are you giving them? What are their aunts and
uncles giving them? I know, ideally we'd know the kids well enough to have
some idea of what they'd like ourselves, but they live 300 miles away and
one of the few times a year we see them is at Christmas.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 8:24 pm
From: nospam@nospam.com

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:14:11 -0500, in misc.consumers.frugal-living "Lou"
<lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>So, anyone out there with kids around 10 years old? What do kids that age
>play with these days? What are you giving them? What are their aunts and
>uncles giving them? I know, ideally we'd know the kids well enough to have
>some idea of what they'd like ourselves, but they live 300 miles away and
>one of the few times a year we see them is at Christmas.

My ten year old girl wants a creepy crawler workshop (if they still make them)
plastic horses with riders, color wonder markers with paper and tracing paper.
She also wants a cookbook. But I don't know how normal any of that is..

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 8:17 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Lou wrote:
>
> So, anyone out there with kids around 10 years old? What do kids that age
> play with these days? What are you giving them? What are their aunts and
> uncles giving them? I know, ideally we'd know the kids well enough to have
> some idea of what they'd like ourselves, but they live 300 miles away and
> one of the few times a year we see them is at Christmas.

I see several options:

1. Tell the nieces and nephews that their tastes are too rich, and could
they please provide you with a list of things that are under $XX.

2. Give them money or gift certificates and let them pick out their own
gift. (You can get targeted gift certificates so they could pick, for
example, a DVD, books, or some clothes or something like that if you
wanted.)

3. Take them shopping after Christmas to pick out their own gift (when I
was a child, I always enjoyed going shopping with my parents for a
birthday present on my birthday -- I always got a choice between a party
or a big present that I could pick out myself)

4. Buy one larger-priced gift that they would all enjoy, if that is
possible.

With that said, 10 is getting to be at the tail end of toys for
Christmas presents, and likely that's why the things they wanted have
increased in value.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 8 2007 8:42 pm
From: Louie

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071208/D8TDDFLO0.html

Ariz. Immigration Law Challenge Tossed

Dec 8, 12:41 PM (ET)

By JACQUES BILLEAUD

PHOENIX (AP) - A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit seeking to
block a new Arizona law that prohibits people from hiring illegal
immigrants and requires businesses to verify whether applicants are
eligible for employment.

The law takes effect Jan. 1.

In his ruling on Friday, U.S. District Judge Neil V. Wake wrote that
the lawsuit was premature because there was no evidence that anybody
had been harmed, and that the plaintiffs - a coalition of business and
immigrant rights groups - were suing the wrong people.

The ruling said the law gives only investigatory authority to the
governor and state attorney general, who were named as defendants.
Wake said county prosecutors, who weren't defendants, actually have
the power to enforce the law.

The plaintiffs had asked for a preliminary injunction blocking the law
from taking effect.

Julie Pace, an attorney for the business groups, said her clients were
meeting Saturday to determine whether to appeal the ruling or file a
separate lawsuit against the county prosecutors. She said the business
groups could pursue both avenues.

Alfredo Gutierrez, a spokesman for immigrant rights groups, said they
plan to refile the lawsuit after Jan. 1, when they might be able to
show damages caused by the law.

A spokesman for Gov. Janet Napolitano said the governor's office had
not yet read the ruling and had no immediate comment.

Napolitano signed the bill in July, saying that while immigration is a
federal responsibility, Congress was apparently "incapable of coping
with the comprehensive immigration reforms our country needs."

The law is intended to curb Arizona's role as the busiest illegal
gateway into the country. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that
illegal immigrants account for one in 10 workers in the Arizona
economy.

Under the law, any business that is found to have knowingly hired an
illegal worker is subject to sanctions ranging from probation to a 10-
day suspension of its business licenses. A second violation would
bring permanent revocation of the license.

The plaintiffs in the lawsuit had argued the law was an
unconstitutional attempt by the state to regulate immigration, which
is the responsibility of the federal government. The judge's ruling
did not address that argument.

"He didn't uphold the law," Pace said. "He didn't decide if it was
constitutional. We can have that argument another day."

Attorneys for the state say the groups weren't reading the law
correctly and that it does not conflict with federal law.

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Saturday, December 8, 2007

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