Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

Wednesday, March 5, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Property tax: was How Will You All Adapt to $4.00 per gallon gasoline?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27e47bb40833e110?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 5:57 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:47ce3a33$0>
I don't think it's ideal to put the government in charge of much of
> anything, but I don't see many better options on this. If you really
> want to see the government get out of it, start a school which is free
> for poor kids, ramp it up to a program which is national in scope, and
> thereby prove that private organizations, funded by donations, can
> handle it.
>

What I do is donate to organizations which provide free sterilization for
women. That's the best solution to the problem. Again, if you can't afford
to educate your kid, you shouldn't have had one. And NO ONE, no matter how
rich, should have more than one. Reducing the population would go a long way
towards solving the "energy crisis". Less demand and the oil reserves will
last longer. It's so simple, yet the breeding masses just can't get it.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:27 am
From: jdoe

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:09:00 -0500, clams_casino :

.
>Ever notice how there are so few recruitment's / ads for teachers?
there are plenty of recruitment ads for teaching positions, you just
haven't looked where they are

__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:02 am
From: clams_casino

Shawn Hirn wrote:

>That's easy. Just off the top of my head, the starting salary of a
>retail harmacist, actuary, many accountants, the private practice
>lawyer, pro sports player get a lot more in total compensation than the
>typical teacher earns the first year out of school and for several years
>thereafter. I am sure other people can come up with other examples.
>
>

I checked a few (national) average salaries with roughly similar
education backgrounds at salary.com:

Lawyer - $87k
Elementary School Teacher - $49k
Elec Engineer - $55k
RN - $60k
Accountant - $40k
Programmer - $51k
Police - $48k
Statistician - $51k

When adjusted for hrs/benefits, it's hard to argue that teachers (on the
average) are underpaid.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:05 am
From: clams_casino

Shawn Hirn wrote:

>
>
> One reason ineffective teachers are not booted out
>of the classroom before they earn tenure is that there is severe glut of
>people willing to go into the teaching professions due to poorly
>competitive pay scales.
>

I though you were claiming teachers are underpaid?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:51 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
>> clams_casino wrote
>>> Logan Shaw wrote
>
>>>> I think it would be a lot of fun and would be very satisfying to be a teacher, but there's no way I'm going to
>>>> actually> DO it -- I'd have to give up approximately half my income over the
>>>> course of my career. I'd like to give something back to society,
>>>> but I'm not going to do it in a way that could practically cut in
>>>> half what I'd earn over the course of my life.
>
>>> I'm impressed. With teachers typically earning 70k + very generous benefits here, I'm hard pressed to find too many
>>> at $100k jobs that would be comparable on an hourly basis (after factoring in extensive vacation, holidays & other
>>> benefits).
>
>> Earlier, you said the average was $54K, and that $70K was "not
>> uncommon". In many professional fields, $54K is more like entry
>> level, not average. And $70K is more like average, although it
>> depends on the field and the market. Where I live, the average teacher's pay[1] is $44,615. I don't care what kind
>> of benefits you get with that. That's not enough to attract many people who can easily make twice that in industry,
>> or at least in certain industries.
>
> It clearly is enough. Very few areas have a problem
> getting enough teachers at that average pay rate.
>
> Essentially because most of those who end up as teachers
> wouldnt be able to get a job in the professions. They actually
> compete with basic white collar jobs like in sales etc and
> enough like the benefits that teaching provides.
>
>>>> So I guess what I think is that if you make teachers' salaries so much lower than what people can make in industry,
>>>> most people who have options are going to avoid teaching.
>
>>> No shortage of teachers here.
>
>> What I'm saying is that there are plenty of teachers but they are just
>> entirely composed of people who either (a) willingly gave up much more lucrative careers because they love it, or (b)
>> had no other offers.
>
> Its mostly those who can only manage a basic white collar job like sales who
> prefer to spend their working lives in what is basically a sheltered workshop.

Right, welfare boy. What was your sales background? Magazine subs
before you dropped out of high school? I go out see customers, work
trade shows and address public groups. Imagine yourself calling
customers "fuckwits".

Want me to repost your work history?
>
>> I'd think that people in the first category probably make great teachers,
>
> There's a hell of a lot more involved in being a great teacher than just that.
>
>> but there are probably a whole lot of people in the second category,
>
> Yep.
>
>> and I wouldn't expect they are as good at teaching.
>
> There isnt a shred of evidence to support that expectation.
>
>> [1]

http://www.tasb.org/news/press_releases/2007/january/salary.aspx

>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PING Real Bev
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/de8719fee046e88a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 5:56 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:fqksl8$u0$1@news.datemas.de...
> You were asking about memory foam mattresses a while back, and I replied
> that I loved mine, but they do tend to hold body heat. If you haven't
> purchased anything yet, my sister was looking for a new set and one of the
> salesman told her that, because of this common complaint, some of the
> newer memory foam mattresses have small holes drilled through them to draw
> heat away from your body. I have no idea if it's true, but you may want
> to check that out. I really love my air bed with the memory foam top and
> will never go back to springs.

and the memory foam mattresses are cold if you have a cold house, like we
do. so i use an electric mattress pad for toasty goodness. in the
summer, everything is usually still okay until the hot flashes hit. but i
think i'm over the hump on those.

i have the same setup you do, and love it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Removing non-stick coating to salvage a pan?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/609894c6db4e02d3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:00 am
From: Peter A

In article <13ss59crouuh146@corp.supernews.com>, heybub@gmail.com
says...
> >
> > I have 2 cast iron pans each about a decade old. They have great
> > seasoning, and I regularly clean them with a weak detergent solution
> > and a soft brush.
>
> Why?
>

You have already proven to everyone that you are a dolt, no need to keep
trying.

--
Peter Aitken
Author, MS Word for Medical and Technical Writers
www.tech-word.com

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:19 am
From: "Arvin"

Did you observe her as a guard or fellow inmate?

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:39 am
From: Sheldon

HeySchlub wrote:
> jt august wrote:
> > "HeySchlub" wrote:
>
> >> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.
>
> > How, then, does one get salad dressing and other residues off salad
> > bowls? �Put them in the fireplace and season them? �Just kidding,
> > sorry, I couldn't resist. �But I am honestly curious how to clean
> > wooden salad bowls.
>
> You don't get the dressings out. Just wipe the bowls. The oils and spices
> from prior uses flavor subsequent salads with a unique palette of flavors
> and aromas.

Yes, the lovely stench of rancidity... if you want your salad bowl to
stink you must be another one of those fetid dago slobs.

HeyBub has a soiled undies sniffing fetish.

If one insists on wooden salad bowls they'd best learn how they're
properly sealed and accept adhering to a regimen of high maintenence.
Products for protecting wooden kitchen implements are readily
available, essentially a paste of beeswax and mineral oil. A properly
maintained wooden salad bowl should harbor no odor whatsoever.
Anytime a restaurant serves my salad in a wooden bowl I send it back,
I'm not really interested in experiencing the scent glands of the
prior patrons.

Hey Schlub, get your stinky butt outta here, you filthy cross posting
douchebag.

SHELDON

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:24 am
From: Robert Allison

HeyBub wrote:

> Robert Allison wrote:
>
>>The problem is that the metal is very prone to rusting, so I have
>>to oil it after every cleaning, and temper it like a cast iron
>>pan. Since I mostly use it on a fish fryer grill (although I
>>will use it on the stove), it has held up pretty well. It ain't
>>pretty by any means, but useful.
>
>
> How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should be
> sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your skillet) to
> water.
>
> Don't wash wooden salad bowls either.

I use a combination of methods to clean it. Usually by pouring
some water in it when it is hot and letting it boil for a minute
or so, then wiping it out and oiling it. When it has been in the
cabinet for a while, I take a paper towel and wipe out the rust
and then oil it, but sometimes the rust is too bad, so I have to
use an SOS pad and some water, then oil, then seasoning.

Being as this is not a standard wok, but one that has had the
teflon removed, it is way more prone to rusting than a standard
(real) wok. For example, I can season it, oil it and put it in
the cabinet. After 2or 3 weeks, it will be rusted (high humidity
here).

That is why I warned the OP about it. My other woks do not do
this, but none of them are as big as this one.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:45 am
From: Lou Decruss

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 21:36:18 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:

>Peter A wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How are you "cleaning" it? Wiping it out with a paper towel should
>>>> be sufficient. Do not ever subject an iron utensil (or maybe your
>>>> skillet) to water.
>>>
>>> Water is not the problem, as long as you dry it after rinsing. I set
>>> it on the still hot burner after rinsing. I never use soap on my
>>> cast iron. I put a little hot water in it, scrub with a brush, rinse
>>> and dry it on the burner. Then I rub it with a little oil or butter
>>> before the next use. Soap will quickly remove the seasoning.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have 2 cast iron pans each about a decade old. They have great
>> seasoning, and I regularly clean them with a weak detergent solution
>> and a soft brush.
>
>Why?

Prove why soap shouldn't be used.

Lou

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:46 am
From: Lou Decruss

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:50:46 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote:

>JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>
>>> You don't get the dressings out. Just wipe the bowls. The oils and
>>> spices from prior uses flavor subsequent salads with a unique
>>> palette of flavors and aromas.
>>>
>>> If you're not into adventures in sublime delights for the nuanced
>>> nose, use styrofoam.
>>>
>>
>>
>> As usual, you are a complete idiot.
>
>No, I am a gourmet.
>
>It is admittedly sometimes difficult, surrounded as I am by Philistines who
>find picking hair out of their weevil-flavored rice balls the epitome of
>culinary accomplishments.
>
>For those whose sensibilites are not as finely honed, the whole issue can
>easily be resolved by choosing salad bowls made of Aluminum, preferably with
>a pop-top to match the other china and utensils.
>
>You can't go wrong watching Martha Stewart.

LOL. Her obnoxiousness has worn off on you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: china wholesale nike air max 87 90 97 tn shoes cheap kobe polo puma
gucci adidas sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4cadd7388369455e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:24 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's your monthly grocery spending?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0abb53d245c656d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:36 am
From: Al Bundy

On Mar 4, 11:01 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I just read an article which stated that the average family of 4 here in
> the USA spends $900 a month on groceries, plus more on eating out at
> restaurants.
>
> I was shocked! Is this true?
>
> We have a family of 4, and our grocery budget is only $180 a month. Until
> last month, it was $160 a month, but we had to raise it a bit because many
> food prices have gone up 20 to 30% in the past year.
>
> I know that most folks would consider me frugal, but I had no idea we were
> getting by on 20% of what the average similar sized family was spending.
>
> How much do you spend on groceries a month?

Don't take this unkindly, OH Guy, but I can't help wondering if some
of your wife's health problems (another post) might not be related or
made worse by the malnutrition you are subjecting the family to. Your
health is the best investment you can buy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: recycling a box just cost me 50c
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/02b68c2ffba451c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:42 am
From: Al Bundy

On Mar 4, 11:07 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> My point was really that the current USPS system actively DISCOURAGES
> people from reusing priority mail boxes. I guess this is because they give
> the boxes away, and they don't want folks using them for media mail, parcel
> post, etc.
>
> Where does the free money to give all of these boxes away come from? Is
> it the US taxpayer?
>
> I really think it would be a good idea for the post office to simply start
> charging up front for the boxes. If they did that, then it wouldn't matter
> if people reused them over and over at all. Why would anyone care, if the
> cost was paid by the original mailer up front? (instead of subsidized as a
> giveaway box)

Then you'd be complaining that they would not let you use the old
Wheaties box you pulled from somebody else's recycling bin. (We all
know you would never buy Wheaties.)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best credit card for international purchases
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e7989ff39fb02022?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 6:58 am
From: SMS

GLSmyth wrote:
> I am going to be traveling to Scotland this summer, and expect to pay
> for most of my expenses by using a credit card. However, I do not
> know whether or not my card offers the best deal as far as exchange
> rate, transaction fees, etc., is concerned. I would be fine getting a
> card for the single purpose of using on the trip if I knew somewhere
> that would give me a comparison of these variables, but have not been
> able to find this information.
>
> Any suggestions on cards or where I can go to find a comparison would
> be very helpful.

There are two types of fees. Visa/MC add their own 1% fee. You can't
escape this (except perhaps with Capital One). Many banks add their own
surcharges and fees, and many do not. The difference can be quite large.

Articles on the subject are at:

"http://www.indexcreditcards.com/internationaltransactionfees/"
"http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20010416a.asp"

In general, check out credit unions, smaller community banks, and places
like USAA (if you qualify). Remember, equivalent grades of Visa and
Master Card are not the same in terms of fees, it all depends on the
institution that issues the card.

Capital One, if they still have the deal listed in the first reference,
seems to be the best deal of major bank, especially if they really eat
the 1% transaction fee charged by Visa/MC.

You have to read the terms and conditions of each credit card offer.
There will be a row for "Foreign Transactions," i.e. for BofA "
Transaction fee for any transaction made in a foreign currency: 3% of
the U.S. Dollar amount of each such transaction. This fee will be in
addition to any other applicable fee." For Citibank: "3% of each
purchase after it is converted into US dollars." Capital One doesn't
seem to have a row in their terms and conditions for foreign transaction
fees, so maybe they really do have none.

Also take into account the rewards you get on a card, versus the fees.
I.e. even if Citibank is 0% (eating the Visa/MC 1% fee) I still do
better with my current card that has no added fee (only the Visa/MC 1%
fee) because the rewards program is so much better ($500 unrestricted
domestic ticket after $25,000 dollars in charges, or essentially 2%).

One really sneaky thing to watch out for is foreign merchants that
charge you in U.S. dollars using a service that adds yet another fee.
They're supposed to ask you if you want to be charged in U.S. dollars,
but they make it sound like a free benefit to you, when in reality it
adds several percent to the transaction.

You also want to avoid using a Mastercard or Visa debit card, and stick
with using a basic ATM card with the PLUS and/or Cirrus logo. Also, use
a bank that refunds ATM fees charged by other banks (there are lots of
credit unions and smaller banks that do this, up to a certain dollar
amount per month). If you use a Mastercard or Visa debit card you'll be
dinged with more fees.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:33 am
From: GLSmyth

On Mar 5, 9:58 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
[clip]

A lot of excellent information, thank you, that is very helpful.

Cheers -

george

==============================================================================
TOPIC: science is really a amazing one
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1cf9ee2c54e371bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:20 am
From: clams_casino

rane wrote:

>science is really a amazing one
>

Actually, it's not surprising that one can get scammed from anyone (like
you) in the world.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Walgreen's printer cart refills
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/951ae5037894005f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:53 am
From: Ken

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in news:21e1138f-bd8d-4fb3-8430-
f28217d5ae05@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> You could shake them when they are new. Their should not be much shake
> if full.

I don't hear anything, but then my hearing is not very good.

> The best way is to weigh them at the start and finish with a
> postal scale.

Walgreen ~3.5 oz. full, ~3.2 empty. Nu-Kote (remanufactured) ~5 oz. full.
I have no new HP cart to weigh. Evidently the Walgreen refill has much
less ink. But Wal-Mart seems to have quit carrying Nu-Kote and I've not
seen them elsewhere - like Staples. I'll have to do the math - maybe the
new HP cart is cheaper than the Walgreen refill. Can't recall the HP 45
price at Wal-Mart though. Have to check next time I go.

> They are designed to hold 42ml or anything less. I
> refill mine and can add extra.

I used to refill my own carts before I got this printer but stopped when
I read cart makers were adding chips to the carts to make them not work
if refilled. They stopped doing that?

> An empty cart goes around 70g and a
> full one about 110g roughly. There can be slight differences so
> weighing the one you have is most accurate. I would say a new one that
> weighed in at under 100g would be seriously short. I believe HP says
> over 400 page capacity at 5%.

Wish I had a scale that weighed in grams but this situation is not worth
buying one specially.

--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 7:54 am
From: Ken

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in news:43b8d603-b538-4995-99d0-
17bb94cc810c@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> Also Ken (not Max), just check the label on the Walgreen to see how
> many mls the cart includes. The HP is 42. No reason other than ethics
> that Walgreen would need to put the same into theirs.
>

No indication at all on label - just tech's id number and date.

--
"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always
remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Telling salesman the drive out price on a car purchase up front?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35842ebffa4f381?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 8:05 am
From: William Souden

George wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>> zcarenow@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am looking to buy a new car. My friends told me just to email the
>>>> dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
>>>> instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
>>>> title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
>>>> question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
>>>> like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
>>>> drive out price.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> While I'm a firm believer in knowing one's maximum price before
>>> seeking a deal, I wouldn't tip that hand to the dealer until late in
>>> the negotiations. With internet purchases, the dealer will usually
>>> supply their lowest price. It is important to identify if there are
>>> any added costs (handling fees, etc) so there are no surprises.
>>> Preparation fees (often times not disclosed unless directly
>>> requested) can range from perhaps $29 up to several hundred dollars.
>>> Once a dealer provides a price, do ask / document if there are any
>>> other fees. A reputable dealer will provide / identify / break down
>>> the final price plus taxes, title & other fees. Be sure to
>>> understand the components of the total price.
>>>
>>> That said, don't assume the internet price will be the best price.
>>> I did find two cars to be best priced via internet, but my last car
>>> (Honda) was advertised nearly $1K less in a newspaper ad compared
>>> with the best Internet quotes I was able to obtain. It was late
>>> in January a few years ago where the dealer was obviously wanting to
>>> move some new cars.
>>>
>>> Contrary to what a lot of dealers will claim, Edmunds does provide
>>> realistic dealer costs, although the manufacturer-to-dealer
>>> kickbacks & dealers acceptable markup (which does vary
>>> significantly between dealers) may vary significantly from published
>>> pricing.
>>
>> The last two times I purchased a car I told the dealers what I was
>> spending and asked them what they had for that price will all taxes
>> and fees included. Most could not deal with this.
>
> They all seem to be on the same page as other merchants where they can
> never tell you the actual cost of something. It always turns into the
> stupid "let me put your information into the computer and it will tell
> us what monthly payment you can afford..."
The last time I purchased a car I had already arranged financing but
did not tell the dealer. I negotiated on price knowing that they had
more leeway due to the extra money they get on financing but when it
came time to sign the contract I told them I had decided to pay cash.
They mumbled something about having to redo the pricing but stopped when
I reminded them that it was illegal to have different pricing for cash
and credit,

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:16 am
From: SMS

zcarenow@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am looking to buy a new car. My friends told me just to email the
> dealers with my expected drive out price(taxes, title, etc) up front
> instead of just negotiating on the price before all the taxes, fees,
> title, etc. This would make it easier from what they've said. The
> question is this a good idea or do dealers don't do this? This sounds
> like i would have to calculate the price of car after coming up with
> drive out price.

I would not do it this way. I'd e-mail several dealers with a request
for a quote, rather than telling them what you'd pay.

Actually I wouldn't do this way at all. The last two vehicles I bought,
and the last I assisted with, were all very low advertised prices for
popular vehicles, well under dealer invoice (one Camry, one Accord, one
4Runner). They still make money because the invoice price is not the
same as the dealer cost, but they usually do this because they know that
on a good percentage of the sales they'll be able to make money on
financing, WAOs (worthless add-ons), extended warranties, etc.

> My other question is financing. The dealerships have been providing
> great interest rates compared to the banks, credit unions. Is it
> possible to negotiate on a rate from dealership if my credit is very
> good and the rate they offered is not to my liking or is that usually
> etched in stone?

It's highly negotiable. Arrange financing in advance. If they can beat
it then take their's. Sometimes, despite laws against it, prices are
dependent on taking the financing. I got hit with that once when the car
we had signed for suddenly became "unavailable" with a cock and bull
story about how it had been damaged, repaired, but not cleared by Toyota
to sell. This was at West Covina Toyota in Southern California. When I
came back the next day, I bought the car, with their financing, then
paid it off right away.

There should be no "garbage fees." Ask them what their fees are in
advance, and then deduct them from any offer, so they can add them back
and feel good.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:25 am
From: SMS

clams_casino wrote:

> That said, don't assume the internet price will be the best price. I
> did find two cars to be best priced via internet, but my last car
> (Honda) was advertised nearly $1K less in a newspaper ad compared with
> the best Internet quotes I was able to obtain. It was late in
> January a few years ago where the dealer was obviously wanting to move
> some new cars.

I found the same thing. A dealer had an "all at this price" sale, which
was a couple of hundred dollars less than the best price I could find
on-line. I calculated the dealer cost from the invoice price, and the
factory to dealer incentives. Several other dealers tried to add on the
fake "ad fee" which is actually reimbursed to them by the manufacturer,
but the one I bought it at didn't do this, so they were about $500 less
than the closest other dealer.

> Contrary to what a lot of dealers will claim, Edmunds does provide
> realistic dealer costs, although the manufacturer-to-dealer kickbacks
> & dealers acceptable markup (which does vary significantly between
> dealers) may vary significantly from published pricing.

The invoice pricing is accurate, but figuring out dealer costs is often
more difficult. On Toyota's there's 2% holdback, 2% advertising fee, and
1% WFR. The holdback and WFR are fair game, but the dealer does pay into
cooperative advertising funds, which is what the ad fee kickback covers
(however some dealers try to add this fee onto the final price, even
though they aren't actually incurring it). What's really hard is to find
out the factory to dealer incentives, which often vary by region. I.e.
in California, the southern California incentives to dealers on Toyotas
and Lexuses are often much higher than the Northern California
incentives. So you have a lot of buyers from Northern California heading
south to buy cars. In general, the southern California new car market is
much more competitive, so you usually get a better deal, but of course
it has to be a significant amount to make it worthwhile to go down
there. We saved about $1500 on a Camry, but on the 4Runner the savings
were smaller so I didn't go down to get it.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:42 am
From: George Grapman

At one time I had a few customers who were car dealers. They agreed
that their worst nightmare was a customer stating a final price and
having them match a car to that price.
They also told me some funny customer stories. When a car has a
$25,000 sticker price they can accept a customer claiming that another
dealer has it for $23,000 even if they know that is not true but that
have to control their laughter when the customer says it is $15,000. In
my work when that happens I simply tell the customer I can not beat the
price and (a) they should buy from the competitor and (b) give me their
name because their price is lower than what my distributor charges me
but car dealers never want to see a customer walk away.
Another one is the customer with horrible credit who arranges the
price and then submits the application thinking that because the dealer
invested the time they will carry the paper for a person making minimum
wage who has two repos on their record.
Speaking of credit checks a dealer once lost a cash sale because he
wanted to run a check on me. He said they needed to know who they were
doing business with. I showed them my license and then they said they
had to be sure my check was good. I offered to go to a nearby branch of
my bank and get a cashiers check. They tried to tell me state law
required a credit check. I left.
Another time I signed a contract and a dealer promised delivery in
three days because a new shipment was arriving the next day . When I got
home another dealer called to see if I had made a purchase. When i told
him he said that the next boat load of Hondas was not arriving until
next week. Sure enough, the first dealer called with excuses about the
car. I had to file a complaint with DMV to get my deposit back. Even
then they dated the check on a Monday and it had a postmark the
following Friday.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: online earning cash
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/895f487719a5663b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 9:42 am
From: kumar9060@gmail.com

online earning cash please click
part time job
*************************************
http://myprfile346.blogspot.com
*************************************

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