Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 14 topics

Sunday, April 13, 2008

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saturn cars- more cracked cylinder heads due to mfgr flaws
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0ef997e9c9515ba0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 7:33 am
From: George Grapman

Lou wrote:
> "misterfact" <misterfact@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e698a3e3-80a5-47bb-bf82-da26f43bce39@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> Also: If a new car customer who has been taking his car to the dealer
>> for regular scheduled maintainance, CHANGES ADDRESS, and the dealer
>> fails to notify the company of the new address and because of this
>> dealer failure- we send out a service notice to the old address and
>> thus the notice never reaches the customer:
>>
>>
>> When the service notice is returned to us as "undeliverable"; we will
>> NOT make any attempt to reach the customer at his new address and
>> notify him of the service notice. We are not liable for our dealer's
>> failure nor will we take any action against our dealer for this
>> failure
>> in an attempt to compensate the customer,should he have been unaware
>> of
>> the notice and suffers a costly repair bill after his warranty has
>> run
>> out!
>
> I don't know about any of your other accusations, but what other
> merchant/business is required to track you down when you move? Your bank,
> perhaps? Or your insurance company? Magazine subscriptions? Credit card
> companies? Standard procedure when you move is that YOU notify the
> organizations with which you do buisiness of your new address. And to tide
> you over while everyone is updating their systems, you notify the Post
> Office to forward your mail to your new address.
>
> Same thing when you trade/sell your car. Do you make the effort to tell the
> manufacturer that you no longer own the vehicle and tell them who does? If
> you get a recall notice, do you send it on to the person to whom you sold
> the car?
>
>

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 7:51 am
From: George

misterfact wrote:
> Saturn (GM) STANDARD OPERATING PROCEEDURE
>
> When we at GM discover an epidemic costly flaw in our cars (like
> casting flaws in our cylinder heads that will cause the head to
> eventually CRACK); and before we become aware of the problem, tens of
> thousands of cars with the flaw have gone off the assembly line to
> dealers and customers
>
>
> We withold that information (sending out a service notice) for as
> long
> as we can- so as to get as many of those cars affected, OVER the
> warranty period. That way, we are not liable to cover the cost of the
> repair or replacement and we are able to cut our loses!
>
>
> Also: If a new car customer who has been taking his car to the dealer
> for regular scheduled maintainance, CHANGES ADDRESS, and the dealer
> fails to notify the company of the new address and because of this
> dealer failure- we send out a service notice to the old address and
> thus the notice never reaches the customer:
>
>
> When the service notice is returned to us as "undeliverable"; we will
> NOT make any attempt to reach the customer at his new address and
> notify him of the service notice. We are not liable for our dealer's
> failure nor will we take any action against our dealer for this
> failure
> in an attempt to compensate the customer,should he have been unaware
> of
> the notice and suffers a costly repair bill after his warranty has
> run
> out!
>

But recall notices aren't sent out by the dealer. I bought a used
vehicle from a third party and a month later got a recall notice. They
found me because the manufacturers get your information from the vehicle
registration database.

>
> Anyone who doubts the above policy can contact (among many others):
> Grand Rapids (Michigan) Saturn.
>
>
> (That is; if anyone there admits his knowledge of and has the COURAGE
> to verify the above policy)
> signed.
>
>
> Michael Cohrman
> misterf...@yahoo.com
>
>
> The above policy is known by many but I have never seen it posted
> anywhere. If you want to verify or deny the above policy from your
> own
> experience- please do!
>
>
> Want specific examples of GM witholding costly information on their
> cars? Contact: misterf...@yahoo.com
>
>
> Patricia of Bath ME (9/15/03):
> Cylinder head cracked, Saturn is aware there is a problem but their
> position is, if it didn't happen in 6 years or 100,000 miles
> (whichever
> came first) I'm out of luck. Of course the local dealer will fix it
> for
> $1,800. I own a 1994 Saturn SW1 with 94,502 miles. The service
> bullentin came out in 1999. I believe that they knew it to be a
> defect
> in the parts they used and it should be fixed no matter what the age
> of
> the car.
>
>
> Of couse they would like the public to think that after their
> timeframe
> the car will never have the problem or by magic it will repair
> itself.
> If the only humans worked this way after 6 years all birth defects
> would just disappear. What a wonderful world it would be. All I have
> to
> say is -- dream on, Saturn. I can't wait to get the car fixed and
> trade
> it in for another car.
>
>
> Re: GM standard operating proceedure [ To: misterfact | Post
> 296013896, reply to 296013865 ] (Score: 2)
>
>
> Cylinder head cracked, Saturn is aware there is a problem but their
> position is, if it didn't happen in 6 years or 100,000 miles
> (whichever came first) I'm out of luck.
>
>
> (think I'm going to buy a Toyota pickup. I've always been a Dodge
> man,
> and I'd love to have a new Cummins, but I think I'm done with
> American
> auto companies.
>
>
> I think I want a Toyota or a Nissan, club cab, full size. Something
> my
> dogs can ride in with me.
>
>
> .
>
>
> misterfact
> (nonconformist)
>
>
> Saturn recalls
>
>
> http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-recalls/03-int/saturn/l-series/...
>
>
> misterfact
> (nonconformist)
> 01/18/08 09:54 AM
> Re: GM standard operating proceedure [ To: Jhoffa_ | Post
> 296013960, reply to 296013929 ] (Score: 1)
>
>
> Saturn has made over 100,000 cars with casting flaws in their
> cylinder
> heads. The flaw causes the head to crack- usually after the warranty
> expires.
>
>
> This figure was given to me by a Saturn "insider".
>
>
> http://www.carreview.com/mfr/saturn/midsize-compact/PRD_15473_1531crx...
>
>
> Summary:
> We were very happy with our Saturn until the warranty ran out. As far
> as I am concerned these lemons have built in flaws.With only 56000
> miles and a dedicated maintanance regime we now face a $4000.00
> repair
> cost for replacing something on just about everything. Speed sensor,
> transmission valve and a computer overhaul. We thought we had made a
> good choice when we bought this car 6 years ago. My wife loved it. We
> were treated great by all the staff at Saturn and it seemed to us
> that
> we were getting a fine automobile......Then the warranty ran out and
> so did all the friendlyness. We now face a bill almost 1/4 the size
> of
> what we paid for it originaly. We are going to do the minimum to get
> it running and dump this turkey. We have started looking around for a
> minivan and believe me, it won't be a Saturn. They should be ashamed
> of themselves for foisting an inferior product on trusting people.
> (But I doubt they are.)
>
>
> Weaknesses:
> Constant problems with the air conditioning.I bet you've read that
> one
> before. Things start falling apart after the warranty expires. too
> many built in flaws in my opinion.
>
>

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:34 am
From: Vic Smith

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:51:57 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>
>But recall notices aren't sent out by the dealer. I bought a used
>vehicle from a third party and a month later got a recall notice. They
>found me because the manufacturers get your information from the vehicle
>registration database.
>
Same here. About a year after I bought an 8 year-old car I got a
recall notice. VIN registration search with the state I suppose.
Probably mandated by the guv. Got a followup too when I didn't take
it in for a month or so. Took it in to a dealer, and the notices
stopped.

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:40 am
From: "Lou"

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f2d404p6cg7fddkk63roepnouq7a12hj91@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:51:57 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>But recall notices aren't sent out by the dealer. I bought a used
>>vehicle from a third party and a month later got a recall notice. They
>>found me because the manufacturers get your information from the vehicle
>>registration database.
>>
> Same here. About a year after I bought an 8 year-old car I got a
> recall notice. VIN registration search with the state I suppose.
> Probably mandated by the guv. Got a followup too when I didn't take
> it in for a month or so. Took it in to a dealer, and the notices
> stopped.
>
> --Vic

So it sounds like the original poster's contention, on this score at least,
doesn't stand up to the facts. S/he's just making up a complaint and
treating it like it's real.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Less meat in pre-formed hamburgers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b3ef27679a4aeb1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 7:13 am
From: "Dave"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:66eftgF2k0h8pU1@mid.individual.net...
> These food producers are getting more and more clever with how they can
> place less food in a package...
>
> (In effect raising the price without raising the price.)
>
> I bought some of those "round" frozen pre-formed hamburger patties. But
> when I got home and opened that package, I saw they were not round
> anymore!
>
> They now look like they have bites taken out here and there around the
> edges. So they now look sort of like an ink blot rather than being round.
>
> This of course allows them to save a bit on how much meat each patty has.
> But then these are mostly fat with a little meat added, so I suppose they
> are saving on the fat or whatever...
>
>

I've seen those. It's just a different shape. What weight is marked on the
package? -Dave

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:24 am
From: goaway@fractious.net

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> writes:

> These food producers are getting more and more clever with how they can
> place less food in a package...
>
> (In effect raising the price without raising the price.)
>
> I bought some of those "round" frozen pre-formed hamburger patties. But when
> I got home and opened that package, I saw they were not round anymore!

"Some settling may occur"

Just kidding.

Take a look at the package. I can almost guarantee that
the burgers in question are sold by *weight* not by count.

If they wanted to rip you off, they'd put fattier (generally
cheaper) meat in there. Or *wetter* meat. Though both
moisture and fat content is somewhat regulated by the gov't.

> They now look like they have bites taken out here and there around the
> edges. So they now look sort of like an ink blot rather than being round.

Actually, the inspector took a bite out of each one,
but only the packages sold to you.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 11:51 am
From: "rick++"

I heard its because climate changes has been causing smaller cows.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: is it frugal to replace old top loading washer with new front loading
energy star?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/57c32f9bf6996aba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 7:15 am
From: "Dave"

>> Again, you are twisting the numbers in ways that they aren't supposed to
> be
>> twisted. 30-odd years ago, there was probably 1 front load washer sold
> for
>> every THOUSAND or so top loaders. Is it any wonder then that we don't
>> "hear" of too many of them still going strong today? -Dave
>
> Am I now. And how do you know that? I'm speaking of my own direct
> experience, while you're simply making up numbers.
>
> For what it's worth, wikipedia says that in the US consumer market, front
> loaders account for 35%, top loaders 65%. No dates or sources for these
> figures are given.

Those numbers are probably accurate today. But 30 years ago? -Dave

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:37 am
From: "Lou"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:ftt4ga$rb5$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>> Again, you are twisting the numbers in ways that they aren't supposed to
>> be
>>> twisted. 30-odd years ago, there was probably 1 front load washer sold
>> for
>>> every THOUSAND or so top loaders. Is it any wonder then that we don't
>>> "hear" of too many of them still going strong today? -Dave
>>
>> Am I now. And how do you know that? I'm speaking of my own direct
>> experience, while you're simply making up numbers.
>>
>> For what it's worth, wikipedia says that in the US consumer market, front
>> loaders account for 35%, top loaders 65%. No dates or sources for these
>> figures are given.
>
> Those numbers are probably accurate today. But 30 years ago? -Dave

I asked for some evidence to back up what otherwise seem like numbers you
simply made up based on nothing whatsoever. In other words, how about some
facts to back up your assertion? Still waiting.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Boss t-shirts, Lacoste men's T-shirts, EDhardy GUCCI women's t-
shirts wholesale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eea60d6e87923821?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 8:07 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Coupon for digital Tv converter
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dae5c3a13fe8def8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 8:17 am
From: "larry"

"Jamie" <jannghi@ihollister.net> wrote in message
news:d00d9d42-1efe-4618-96f9-25649b5cd07f@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>I requested one online in February (I printed out the page for my
> records) and almost tow months later I have still not received my
> coupon. How much will I have to pay if I don't get the coupon?
>
> BTW, I have a TV set I purchased in 1995. Will the converters work
> with one that old? I still have my VCR form that year, but have not
> used it since around 2002, just months before getting my DVD
> player.
>

I ordered mine feb 4th and just got them yesterday...

The age of your TV doesn't matter as long as it has an rca input or even the
coax connection. But rca connection will give you a better picture.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb680e88fb39c4c3?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bulk items not always cheaper...at Walmart
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2f173833d3637ef4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 8:35 am
From: tradefor2@gmail.com

Walmart charging more for bulk items then small quanities? I saw it
this weekend buying eggs. The unit price was cheaper on 2.5 dozen
eggs compared to the 5 dozen eggs.- Yes I eat alot of eggs. Any way
keep an eye out when shopping.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:26 am
From: clams_casino

tradefor2@gmail.com wrote:

>Walmart charging more for bulk items then small quanities? I saw it
>this weekend buying eggs. The unit price was cheaper on 2.5 dozen
>eggs compared to the 5 dozen eggs.- Yes I eat alot of eggs. Any way
>keep an eye out when shopping.
>
>

At the end of their checkout counter, they had 97 cent packages of M&Ms
that had less than double the amount of their 50 cent packages which
were over the checkout belt. .

Granted, the smaller packs were only a few cents cheaper pre volume, but
I'm guessing many would jump to the fancier packaged 97-cent packaging.

An extra 2-3 cents / dollar profit can go a long ways on Walmart's
profit margins.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:40 am
From: George Grapman

clams_casino wrote:
> tradefor2@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Walmart charging more for bulk items then small quanities? I saw it
>> this weekend buying eggs. The unit price was cheaper on 2.5 dozen
>> eggs compared to the 5 dozen eggs.- Yes I eat alot of eggs. Any way
>> keep an eye out when shopping.
>>
>>
>
>
> At the end of their checkout counter, they had 97 cent packages of M&Ms
> that had less than double the amount of their 50 cent packages which
> were over the checkout belt. .
>
> Granted, the smaller packs were only a few cents cheaper pre volume, but
> I'm guessing many would jump to the fancier packaged 97-cent packaging.
>
> An extra 2-3 cents / dollar profit can go a long ways on Walmart's
> profit margins.

I am seeing this more and more. The local Cala/Bell which is owned by
Kroger has a higher unit price on a three roll pack of paper towels than
single rolls of the same size. Likewise the 32 oz. house version of
V-8 is less than half that of the 64 oz. My guess is they hope people
will assume larger is cheaper.
No surprise about the candy you mentioned as stuff at the stand is
for impulse "(mommy, I want some M&Ms").

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:46 am
From: "Lou"

<tradefor2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5ef554c-f77d-484a-a119-0bc05cae483a@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Walmart charging more for bulk items then small quanities? I saw it
> this weekend buying eggs. The unit price was cheaper on 2.5 dozen
> eggs compared to the 5 dozen eggs.- Yes I eat alot of eggs. Any way
> keep an eye out when shopping.

Larger sizes are sometimes cheaper per unit measure of product, sometimes
not. On the same product, which is cheaper can change week by week, or even
day by day. The practice is not limited to Walmart, nor is it a recent
phenomenon - it's been the case at least since I've been old enough to buy
things for myself - 50 years or so - and I'm willing to bet, far longer than
that. Odd size packages, or packages different from whatever the norm is,
can cost more or less simply because manufacturing costs per unit are higher
or lower with different sized production runs.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 10:22 am
From: Marsha

tradefor2@gmail.com wrote:
> Walmart charging more for bulk items then small quanities? I saw it
> this weekend buying eggs. The unit price was cheaper on 2.5 dozen
> eggs compared to the 5 dozen eggs.- Yes I eat alot of eggs. Any way
> keep an eye out when shopping.

It's not limited to Walmart. Kroger, Meijer, Foodtown, etc. have all
have done it for as long as I can remember. Some stores will list the
price per lb for the larger size and then list the price per oz for the
smaller size, making it a little more time consuming to figure out the
better deal. I've even seen prices calculated incorrectly per oz or lb
- which is just a mistake I'm sure :-)

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: You can't always get what you want (Was Re: u can get what you want
Spam)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dbc79dd17c6561e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 8:46 am
From: Anthony Matonak

cheapestsell001@hotmail.com wrote:
...<snip spam>...

But if you try sometimes you just might find
you get what you need.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:29 am
From: clams_casino

Anthony Matonak wrote:

> cheapestsell001@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...<snip spam>...
>
> But if you try sometimes you just might find
> you get what you need.

I can't seem to find any on-line sellers of sneakers & replica watches.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Digital TV Information
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f22c7309e3e172a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 8:50 am
From: Jeff

NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> OK, I've looked up the industry website and understand about the
> coupon. That's not my problem.
>
> I have a 4 story brownstone in Brooklyn NY. On the roof there's a
> large antenna. The signal immediately converts to a coax cable which I
> thought was RG59 but they all seem to talk about an RG6 or RG11.

RG6 and particularly RG11 have lower loss. Important for long runs

> Whatever! The cable goes through the roof to the attic crawl space
> where it goes into a Blondin (some name like that) amplifier (powered
> off 110V). Out of the amplifier comes a coax (all is the same as
> before) which splits into two-- one for the back of the house and one
> for the front. All coax is buried deep in the walls, under the floor
> etc. They drop a floor where they feed two wall outlets in the front
> and two in the back (splitters used and all unused outlets are
> terminated with the do-hickey sold for the purpose by Radio Shack).
> Then to the next floor. More splitting front and back and so on until
> we finally reach the cellar where we split about six ways and feed a
> number of outlets in back and front (TV's, VCR's, DVD recorders, etc)
> on the floor above. Note that I actually only watch TV in two places
> on floor 1; the rest of the twenty or so outlets are in case I get an
> overwhelming urge (say) to watch a portable TV while doing the laundry
> on floor 4.
>
> I do not want to replace this!
>
> Can I simply attach the converter box to the nearest outlet and expect
> it to function as before?

Probably.

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

has recommendations based on actual location and environment.

Most DTV signals are in the UHF range.

Do I need to replace the amplifier? Do I
> need to replace the coax?

It's all or nothing with DTV. It's either perfect or no picture (you
may still get atmospheric interruptions). Check it at your outlet, if it
isn't good then get as close to the antenna as you can and check it
there to make sure you have reception and that the problem isn't with
your antenna. Remember these are mostly UHF signals and not on the same
channels as your analog stations.

If you have reception at the antenna but not inside then you will
need to boost the signal. That could be by a more sensitive receiver, a
better amp, better cable or less splitters!

I suspect that if you have a decent converter that you won't have
much trouble.

I will replace the antenna because the old
> one's at the end of its useful life (missing arms, etc) but in reading
> about the antennas as usual it's information overload! I'm only 5
> miles from the Empire State so I should just buy a cheapest smallest
> antenna, right? Don't think so. I can't quite see the Empire State (I
> used to be able to see the WTC and have better reception) and there's
> all those large buildings around. OTOH will the longest super-duperest
> antenna (read: most expensive) give me a better picture?

Just check antennaweb.org. A $30 bowtie type UHF antenna may be all
you need.
>

Jeff

> Since this is in aid of the TV manufacturers of America they should
> send out a monkey (Rod Speed talk) to use all sorts of expensive
> measuring equipment to tell me exactly (for free!). Since they won't I
> guess I'll have to rely on someone else. Any suggestions?
>
>

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 9:06 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Flying ants or termites?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/35fc0cb45d2875df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 11:01 am
From: beecrofter

On Apr 12, 10:48 am, "Walter Cohen" <w_co...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> How do I tell the difference between flying/winged ants and flying/winged
> termites?
> I have what look like winged ants (black bodies with long wings) that have
> been congregating on the inside of a window sill in my home. There are
> numerous discarded wings along the floor too.
>
> Any help is appreciated.
> Walter

Easy job, termite antennae look like a string of beads (filoform) and
are straight
Ant antennae have a bend like a pipe elbow.

==============================================================================
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Removing non-stick coating to salvage a pan?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/609894c6db4e02d3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 13 2008 10:07 am
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

>Somebody wrote:

> It makes as much sense cooking with cast iron
> cookware in 2008 as it does commuting to work in a cart with wooden
> wheels pulled by a yoke of oxen.

We may ALL be commuting to work in carts, soon enough. BAD metaphor.
Bad bad bad.

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

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Sunday, April 13, 2008

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