Frugal Living: 21 new messages in 9 topics

Sunday, August 17, 2008

21 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compact Flourescent bulbs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c541905216cc4817?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 1:59 pm
From: James

On Aug 16, 4:41 pm, Russell Patterson <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:41:05 -0400, Russell Patterson <m...@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
> >they seem to last the same length of time as the regular
> >incandescants. For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending
> >more.
>
> One thing I should have mentioned is the bulbs that are not lasting
> are on ceiling fans. It could be the vibrations doing them in. Anyone
> else seeing the same on ceiling fans?

My keep burning out. They either fail completely or else develop
black bands and gets dimmer. I suspect it's because i use the highest
watts they sell. Maybe the low watt ones last longer because they
don't get as hot.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 3:47 pm
From: "Twice Retired"

"Russell Patterson" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:goeea4194l9oq4aumgadfa5hjg8hipffsb@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:41:05 -0400, Russell Patterson <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
>>they seem to last the same length of time as the regular
>>incandescants. For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending
>>more.
> One thing I should have mentioned is the bulbs that are not lasting
> are on ceiling fans. It could be the vibrations doing them in. Anyone
> else seeing the same on ceiling fans?

I have 10 CFL's, 5 per fan, in the family room and 8, 4 per fan, in the bar.
No failures in the 3 years they have been in use.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 3:56 pm
From: Jeff

Russell Patterson wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:41:05 -0400, Russell Patterson <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
>> they seem to last the same length of time as the regular
>> incandescants. For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending
>> more.
> One thing I should have mentioned is the bulbs that are not lasting
> are on ceiling fans. It could be the vibrations doing them in. Anyone
> else seeing the same on ceiling fans?

My girlfriend has been running CFL's in her ceiling fan and I have a
couple in mine. In two years, no problems. Could be your fan shakes
more, or you are using cheap CFLs.

I'm all CFL here and I think I've just had one burnout in the last 5
+ years. Stay away from all "dollar" store brands, they are notoriously
bad. I get the ones that are rated 7 years or so (that's at 8hrs/day). T

Jeff

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 4:42 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <e64ea4dt2tnceafk82fcdsb0hnnhhg59d7@4ax.com>, Russell Patterson wrote:

>Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
>they seem to last the same length of time as the regular
>incandescants. For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending
>more.

My experience is for CFLs to be averaging 4,000-5,000 operating hours
before burnout. Claimed life expectancy is usually 6,000-10,000 hours -
but that is with average runtime of 3 hours per start and 25 degree C (77
F) ambient temperature.

What causes CFLs to sometimes die young:

1. If they are bad brands. In general, CFLs do better if they ahevthe
"Energy Star" logo or if they are one of the "Big 3" major brands
(Philips, Sylvania, GE).

My experience is that Lights of America has a high rate of very
premature failure, although that has caused me to largely avoid them since
2002. They may have improved since.

Also in my experience, $1-$2 CFLs of "dollar store brands" at dollar
stores are absolute stool specimens. My experience with these include:

* Much-above-average rate of premature failure
* Most of the spectacular CFL failures in my experience (burning up
with great smoke output or loud bangs)
* Most of the CFLs malfunctioning in strange ways without
* Mostly having an icy cold bluish "daylight" color
* Some icy cold daylight ones labelled as "soft warm white"
* Significant rate of subpar color rendering properties, especially
with the few that are actually warm white in color
* 100% rate of those with light output claims falling short

2. Frequent on/off duty, such as in motion sensor lights and bathrooms
frequently used for short trips.

3. Overheating - typically in small enclosed fixtures and recessed
downlights, especially with higher wattages. Some CFLs come with
advisories that life will be shortened in ambient temperature above 60
degrees C (140 degrees F). Recessed ceiling fixtures can have ambient
temperature around the ballast housing get that hot with CFLs of wattages
near or over 20 watts.

Philips "Marathon" triple-arch ones are actually specifically rated for
such "heat hellholes" last time I checked, but only for wattages up to
23 watts (what I call "dimmish 100 watt equivalent") and also only for
non-dimmable versions.

Keep in mind that despite being more efficient at producing light than
incandescents, CFLs are also more efficient at producing non-radiant heat
than incandescents. In one experiment I tried, a 42 watt CFL produced
slightly more convected/conducted heat than a 60 watt incandescent. What
CFLs produce less of is infrared - which largely becomes heat in the house
but does so after escaping the light fixture. And CFLs do not survive
heat as well as incandescents do.

4. Where else CFLs largely do not do well:

* Refrigerators (on too little and too short a time to do well, also dim
especially in first minute when at refrigerator temperatures)

* Most closet lights - low ontime makes payback usually anywhere from
slower than a broad market stock index fund to negative as of when it
burns out

Other than that, CFLs have a high rate of doing well!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 5:02 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <goeea4194l9oq4aumgadfa5hjg8hipffsb@4ax.com>, Russell Patterson wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:41:05 -0400, Russell Patterson <me@privacy.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
>>they seem to last the same length of time as the regular incandescants.
>>For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending more.

>One thing I should have mentioned is the bulbs that are not lasting
>are on ceiling fans. It could be the vibrations doing them in. Anyone
>else seeing the same on ceiling fans?

I have seen some indication of reduced life in ceiling fan fixtures.

However, indications to me are not vibrations but heat. Those
flower-shaped downward lamp openings have some significant heat buildup
in the base regions, and the ballast housings of CFLs used there easily
get awfully warm - and the electronics in those things may succumb to the
heat at a time when the CFL is still young.

It appears to me that CFLs of wattage 18 watts or less should overheat
only mildly in ceiling fan fixtures. However, I did have one 13 watt
Sylvania spiral CFL die young in a ceiling fan fixture - in an apartment
that is usually 80 degrees and where I hardly ever use the fan function.

There are actual ceiling fan CFLs. One part of their design is to have
outer bulbs. This eliminates need to screw a CFL into such a tight area
by holding the easy-to-breal fluorescent tubing of a CFL. This is also
part of a general design for having the fluorescent tubing work over a
wide temperature range. The downside is that in this design the tubing
itself runs hot and the mercury amalgam formulation is optimized for
tubing that hot and depending on the outer bulb to get that hot. The
result of that design is being quite dim when started cold and needing a
minute or two to warm up. CFLs with bare tubing are more mildly dim with
a cold start and take less time to warm up to the (lower) temperature at
which they work well.
The "ceiling fan" CFLs are also 9 watt ones - with light output about
that of "better" 40 watt incandescents.
Of these, my experience includes Sylvania (available at Lowes and a few
supermarkets) and N:Vision (available at Home Depot). My experience is
that the N:Vision has a more pleasant warmer color, while the Sylvania is
whiter while also being more-pink-less-yellow than halogen - often looks
good but that design philosophy can appear "harsh" (at least in my
experience). Other than that, Sylvania is one of the "Big 3" major brands
and N:Vision is not. My experience is that *on average* "Big-3" does
better than others. The other 2 of "Big 3" are Philips and GE.
Keep an eye out for the "Energy Star" logo as an indicator of being more
likely to be a generally good product.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 5:42 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <d5c5d70b-5249-4a49-b482-b3077a52ca13@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
James wrote:

>On Aug 16, 4:41 pm, Russell Patterson <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:41:05 -0400, Russell Patterson <m...@privacy.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
>> >they seem to last the same length of time as the regular
>> >incandescants. For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending
>> >more.
>>
>> One thing I should have mentioned is the bulbs that are not lasting
>> are on ceiling fans. It could be the vibrations doing them in. Anyone
>> else seeing the same on ceiling fans?
>
>My keep burning out. They either fail completely or else develop
>black bands and gets dimmer. I suspect it's because i use the highest
>watts they sell. Maybe the low watt ones last longer because they
>don't get as hot.

In many fixtures CFLs of wattages over 23 watts have a high rate of
overheating.

In small enclosed fixtures, ceiling fan fixtures and recessed ceiling
fixtures, it is common for especially heat-surviving 23 watt CFLs (such as
Philips Marathon of triple arch style as opposed to spiral and then only
non-dimmable, as of last time I checked - I may not be up to date here)
to be the main ones above 18 watts to have a high rate of working well in
such heat-buildup fixtures.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:59 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <e64ea4dt2tnceafk82fcdsb0hnnhhg59d7@4ax.com>,
Russell Patterson <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>Is anybody getting the life expectancy out of these new bulbs? To me
>they seem to last the same length of time as the regular
>incandescants. For the extra expense they cost I think I am spending
>more.

Depends upon the brand. The cheaper ones (purchase price) will not last
as long as the better-quality (and therefore more expensive) ones.

I have a GE enclosed bulb that's been going for at least ten years 24-7
lighting a front porch. I've pretty much given up on any CFs with light
sensors (on at dusk/off at dawn) or with separate ballasts due to poor
reliability. The sensors or ballasts fail before the second bulb.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buying a used car - Tips
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d079ed416faa136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 2:22 pm
From: clams_casino

Chuckcar wrote:

>Do what i do look for and buy a kcar. I own a busted up 1981 Plymouth
>Reliant. It worked for me, i know the car has more rust than metal but i
>don't care because i'm one the the biggest cheapskates this world has ever
>known. Happy motoring!!
>
>
>
>

Heard something today that makes some sense. When buying new it's
usually best to buy a car with high trade-in value (usually a reflection
of good long term reliability). When buying used, consider reliable
cars where trade-in value is poor / where the previous owner is taking
a big hit on depreciation.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 2:44 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Chuckcar wrote:
>
>> Do what i do look for and buy a kcar. I own a busted up 1981 Plymouth
>> Reliant. It worked for me, i know the car has more rust than metal
>> but i don't care because i'm one the the biggest cheapskates this
>> world has ever known. Happy motoring!!

> Heard something today that makes some sense.

Not necessarily.

> When buying new it's usually best to buy a car with high trade-in value

Thats only useful if you plan to trade it in. If you plan to buy new and
keep it until its no longer a viable car, the trade-in value isnt relevant.

> (usually a reflection of good long term reliability).

Nope, more what the market likes.

> When buying used, consider reliable cars where trade-in value is poor / where the previous owner is taking a big hit
> on depreciation.

Depends on whether you plan to trade it in yourself later.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 4:38 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Aug 16, 2:22 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Chuckcar wrote:
> >Do what i do look for and buy a kcar. I own a busted up 1981 Plymouth
> >Reliant. It worked for me, i know the car has more rust than metal but i
> >don't care because i'm one the the biggest cheapskates this world has ever
> >known. Happy motoring!!
>
> Heard something today that makes some sense. When buying new it's
> usually best to buy a car with high trade-in value (usually a reflection
> of good long term reliability). When buying used, consider reliable
> cars where trade-in value is poor / where the previous owner is taking
> a big hit on depreciation.

When I've bought used cars in the past I tended to drive them for 3-4
years...bought cheap to begin with and even with the higher mileage,
still managed to sell it for about the same price I paid. Example: 81
Chev. Luv, paid: $1200, had it for about 3 years, sold it for $1200.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: If Rove were a Democrat
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ae10d32ef8da1860?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 3:30 pm
From: "david7gable@aol.com"

...then we'd hear the truth about McCain from the Democrats:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/if-rove-were--1.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help Burnham RSM-126 oil furnace won't heat hot water after
vacation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eef6515a0b25337e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 3:54 pm
From: Mark

On Aug 15, 11:59 am, Donita Luddington <donil...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:31:40 -0700, Donita Luddington wrote:
> >> when the burner tries to start, do you get a flame or not?
>
> BTW, after I cleaned it, I certainly got a flame (it heated the water) but
> it goes out after a while.
>
> Does that help?

what does a little while mean....20 seconds or 20 minutes?

so agin it is hard to say fomr here,,,is your flame going out because
of lack of fuel or air....or is one of the saftey devices shutting it
off for some reason...

if the flame is good and suddenly goes off it would seem to be a
saftey, if you have a photocell sensor, try cleaning it...

get a book to tell you how to do that...

Mark

==============================================================================
TOPIC: URGENT - Pls help...pls recommend - laptop purchase
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3677a124728a8cc8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 4:34 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Aug 16, 9:27 am, Mirelle <anamin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> irfansm...@gmail.com wrote:
> > URGENT - Pls help...pls recommend - laptop purchase
>
> Buy an Apple laptop.
> The Apple has a Duel processor, so you can use Windows on it or Apple,
> or both. by splitting the screen.
>
> Mirelle
>
I don't believe that's how it works. You install "Parallels" which
lets you install Windows onto the MAC OSX. I don't think you can
install "only" Windows. But you are right that it has the Intel Dual
Core processor.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 5:52 pm
From: Mirelle

On Aug 16, 12:02 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mirelle <anamin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > irfansm...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> URGENT - Pls help...pls recommend - laptop purchase
> > Buy an Apple laptop.
> > The Apple has a Duel processor, so you can use Windows on it or Apple,
> > or both. by splitting the screen.

> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about laptops.

Hey, genius, don't has an apostrophe in it.

http://macwindows.com/

Mirelle
> >> I am in the SF Bay Area, California.
>
> >> My laptop died suddenly so I am in need of a new laptop urgently -
> >> like today if poss.
> >> I cannot wait for more than a week or so for delivery etc.
> >> Windows laptop preferably ( not mac)
>
> >> Please let me know your recommendations for a RELIABLE, Sturdy
> >> laptop...
>
> >> My main requirements are as follows:
> >> ***********************************************
> >> - as fast as poss ( I hate it when it hangs or runs slowly)
> >> - as lightweight as poss
>
> >> The following are the main programs I use
> >> ****************************************************
> >> - gmail, yahoo mail etc
> >> - MS Word, Notepad or pdf doc
> >> - MS Outlook
>
> >> Typically I have about 6 to 7 Mozilla/ Firefox pages open and MS
> >> Outlook and Word or Notepad open - all day - open all at once- at
> >> any point in time.
> >> So I use quite a bit of resources.
>
> >> My Budget is as follows:
> >> ******************************
> >> prefer around US $1000 ( if the laptop is on sale)
>
> >> But could go as high as US $1500 or so
>
> >> Simplicity
> >> ****************
> >> Since I am not a techie, I would prefer a very simple plug and play
> >> laptop.
>
> >> Would like a well known sturdy branded laptop.
> >> ***************************************************
>
> >> Do not need the following
> >> ********************************
> >> I do not need features for games, graphics, entertainment etc. etc.
> >> Just a fast, lightweight sturdy laptop.
>
> >> Would any one pls recommend a laptop based on the above.
> >> Which brand ? What model #? Approx price ? Where to buy it ?
>
> >> Thanks in advance,
>
> >> Irfan Smith

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:14 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Mirelle <anaminaam@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Mirelle <anamin...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> irfansm...@gmail.com wrote

>>>> URGENT - Pls help...pls recommend - laptop purchase

>>> Buy an Apple laptop.
>>> The Apple has a Duel processor, so you can use Windows on it or
>>> Apple, or both. by splitting the screen.

>> Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about laptops.

> Hey, genius, don't has an apostrophe in it.

Mine dont, stupid.

> http://macwindows.com/

Doesnt say anything like what you said, most obviously with the way the DUAL processors are used.

>>>> I am in the SF Bay Area, California.
>>
>>>> My laptop died suddenly so I am in need of a new laptop urgently -
>>>> like today if poss.
>>>> I cannot wait for more than a week or so for delivery etc.
>>>> Windows laptop preferably ( not mac)
>>
>>>> Please let me know your recommendations for a RELIABLE, Sturdy
>>>> laptop...
>>
>>>> My main requirements are as follows:
>>>> ***********************************************
>>>> - as fast as poss ( I hate it when it hangs or runs slowly)
>>>> - as lightweight as poss
>>
>>>> The following are the main programs I use
>>>> ****************************************************
>>>> - gmail, yahoo mail etc
>>>> - MS Word, Notepad or pdf doc
>>>> - MS Outlook
>>
>>>> Typically I have about 6 to 7 Mozilla/ Firefox pages open and MS
>>>> Outlook and Word or Notepad open - all day - open all at once- at
>>>> any point in time.
>>>> So I use quite a bit of resources.
>>
>>>> My Budget is as follows:
>>>> ******************************
>>>> prefer around US $1000 ( if the laptop is on sale)
>>
>>>> But could go as high as US $1500 or so
>>
>>>> Simplicity
>>>> ****************
>>>> Since I am not a techie, I would prefer a very simple plug and play
>>>> laptop.
>>
>>>> Would like a well known sturdy branded laptop.
>>>> ***************************************************
>>
>>>> Do not need the following
>>>> ********************************
>>>> I do not need features for games, graphics, entertainment etc. etc.
>>>> Just a fast, lightweight sturdy laptop.
>>
>>>> Would any one pls recommend a laptop based on the above.
>>>> Which brand ? What model #? Approx price ? Where to buy it ?
>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>>>> Irfan Smith

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 8:41 pm
From: "JR Weiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote...
>
>> Hey, genius, don't has an apostrophe in it.
>
> Mine dont, stupid.

Translated: rodless seedless doesn't use an apostrophe because he's too stupid.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Facts on Georgia-Russia conflict expose Bush's continual lying.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/163a0b9c89b58f8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 5:21 pm
From: wismel@yahoo.com

http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?s=russia&submit=go

Thank goodness White House propaganda mill garbage and the general
media
swill is being rejected.

ted

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compass (as in North-South-East-West)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/723571e64e75ff12?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 6:47 pm
From: NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov

I'm trying to arrange my TV reception so that I can get both PBS (Ch
13 in my area) and ABC (Ch7). Other stations are generally OK or
explainably deficient (forty miles away, for example). However for
these two it seems that I can get either one or the other but not both
which is strange since the antenna website shows them as coming from
either the same place or a couple of degrees different. It could be
that ABC is not broadcasting at full power (damn FCC why can't they
check this and levy big fines!) or maybe it's PBS. Either way I want
to exclude my antenna as the problem so I need to be able to
accurately orient it to (e.g.) 338 degrees and 1 degree. Hence I need
a compass but...

This is the digital age isn't it? Of course! That's why I have this
problem. But all the compasses I can find seem to be something out of
the ark. Analog and you'd be hard-pressed to get closer than 10
degrees. I want one that looks like a handgun with the degrees display
where the hammer would be and a trigger switch. Line it up with the
antenna beam, press the trigger button, and it displays the degrees.
Minutes too! How about some accuracy here! Why is this so hard to
find? Maybe I'm using the wrong search terms. Anyone have any
suggestions?

Oh, yeah and while you're at it, can you explain why I can get a 90%
good signal (read out from the converter box) on two stations (not the
ones above) where one has a perfect picture and sound (CBS) and the
other (ION) has lots of pixelization (small blocks in the picture) and
massive drop outs in the sound. These two come from the same place.

Further why am I getting a TV station (29-1) with picture where the
sub carriers (29-2, 29-3,... up to 29-10) seem to be FM radio stations
(no picture)?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 7:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:

> I'm trying to arrange my TV reception so that I can get both PBS
> (Ch 13 in my area) and ABC (Ch7). Other stations are generally
> OK or explainably deficient (forty miles away, for example).

> However for these two it seems that I can get either one or the
> other but not both which is strange since the antenna website
> shows them as coming from either the same place or a couple
> of degrees different. It could be that ABC is not broadcasting
> at full power (damn FCC why can't they check this and levy
> big fines!) or maybe it's PBS. Either way I want to exclude
> my antenna as the problem so I need to be able to accurately
> orient it to (e.g.) 338 degrees and 1 degree. Hence I need
> a compass but...

> This is the digital age isn't it? Of course! That's why I have this
> problem. But all the compasses I can find seem to be something out of
> the ark. Analog and you'd be hard-pressed to get closer than 10 degrees.

Given the lobes on TV antennas, thats plenty accurate enough.

> I want one that looks like a handgun with the degrees display
> where the hammer would be and a trigger switch. Line it up
> with the antenna beam, press the trigger button, and it displays
> the degrees. Minutes too! How about some accuracy here!

Pointless with TV antennas.

> Why is this so hard to find?

Because no one needs that sort of accuracy anymore.

> Maybe I'm using the wrong search terms. Anyone have any suggestions?

digital compass.

> Oh, yeah and while you're at it, can you explain why I can get a 90%
> good signal (read out from the converter box) on two stations (not the
> ones above) where one has a perfect picture and sound (CBS) and the
> other (ION) has lots of pixelization (small blocks in the picture) and
> massive drop outs in the sound. These two come from the same place.

The two transmitters dont have the same power.

> Further why am I getting a TV station (29-1) with picture where the sub carriers
> (29-2, 29-3,... up to 29-10) seem to be FM radio stations (no picture)?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Should I buy a gas gussler?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fabb5d064cc35efb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 6:59 pm
From: Jean Smith

In article <EwApk.20215$4p1.10591@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com>,
"gregg" <gregg@NOSPAMsaneearth.org> wrote:

> "Jean Smith" <go_termite@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:go_termite-DCAD21.01040716082008@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> > In article <wKjpk.10313$rD2.7050@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
> > jakdedert <jakdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > The Subaru Forester in the extended family gets 24 MPG and tracks better
> > than
> > my sedan.
>
> Hardly fits the SUV mold, ya think?

Sure is. It's a truck that bitch has as to be helped into with an headstart and
a lift of the leash, while the other GSP doesn't think twice.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/germanshorthairedpointer.htm
I don't know whether the cage wire above the back seats was original equipment,
but they aren't crowded back there.

On the other hand a friend just got a great deal on a Lincoln sedan from an
estate sale based on the comfort and style rationale. The Chevy extended cab
was losing its luster, as his primary vehicle.

--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/assignment.shtml
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
http://www.shrunkin.com/petraeus-visit-to-lebanon http://www.linktv.org/mosaic
Media Matters http://mediamatters.org/index

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Earn extra money online from home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3baa7030f866ced?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 9:20 pm
From: blognite

Hi, if you like to earn extra money online, check out this website to
see what are the best ways to do so without spending any money. You
may be interested to join a few of them. Those are all free to join.

http://urlhawk.com/onlinemoney

These programs are unlikely to make you rich but it is a great
opportunity to earn extra money from home.

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