Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Math on the bailout doesn't add up...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3213ff522966e10e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 29 2008 11:49 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:19:49 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:22:23 -0400, Ann <nntpmail@epix.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> Got exactly what she didnt want, and did deserve, a vote against the
>>> bailout.
>>>
>>> Sucks to be her eh?
>>
>>Why? She delivered the number of Democratic "yea" votes she committed
>>to; it was the House Republicans who broke ranks and whose "yea" votes
>>fell short.
>
>
> Oddly enough...60% of the Democrats voted against it
>
> Seems that both sides had people who voted their consience against hte
> bail out, which is frankly surprising for democrats
>
> Gunner

Are you finally admitting that your sneering comments, in various forms,
about the economy being just peachy were horribly wrong?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Playing!!! Pirates of the Economy
with GW Bush, John McCain and Barak Obama
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:38 am
From: robert bowman

Ann wrote:

> The way controversial votes in an election year usually go is that
> the most vulnerable members of a party get a "bye" if their votes aren't
> needed to pass/reject a bill. That is, they get to vote in the way that
> gives them the best chance at reelection.

In other words, they gull their constituents by voting in a way consistent
with their constituents wishes, and after being elected can go back to
voting the party line?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WHAT NOW? Survival of the fittest!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f7c466e37ae04ad0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 2:17 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:05:58 -0700, raggedge <ragged@lockn.load>
wrote:

>
>WHAT NOW? Survival of the fittest!
>
>With the stock market having begun its crash and the federal
>government having refused to intervene, many of you are now asking
>"What's next?" I have the answers and they aren't pretty.
>
>The stock market will continue its slide, losing one-third to one-half
>of its overall value within a week or two. Those with pensions will
>see dramatic decreases in their monthly checks.
>
>The dysfunctional credit markets will not change in any meaningful way
>in any effective time frame. As things stand now, almost no one can
>get credit. Consumers cannot get loans to buy cars or houses.
>Businesses cannot get loans to meet payroll, re-stock their inventory
>or buy raw materials to do manufacturing. With the situation as it is,
>we are going to watch almost our entire economy grind to a halt.
>
>As the economy tanks - which will happen extremely fast - people will
>be laid off or let go as companies downsize or go out of business. So
>look for massive unemployment very fast.
>
>With millions of people losing jobs, the number of defaults on credit
>card payments, mortgage payments, car payments and the like will
>absolutely skyrocket. The sheer number of defaults will take out over
>one thousand U.S. Banks.
>
>The U.S. Government will try to shore-up the banks and the economy by
>spending more, but no one will lend them the money so the government
>will print it. As the government prints several trillion more dollars,
>the rest of the world will reject our currency as worthless.
>
>When that happens, all the goods we import from abroad - including oil
>- will become stunningly expensive, then run out as overseas
>manufacturers simply refuse to accept our worthless money.
>
>With almost all U.S. manufacturing jobs having been shipped overseas
>under NAFTA and GATT, we don't even have the infrastructure to resume
>manufacturing here in America.
>
>When oil stops flowing in from overseas because OPEC won't take our
>cash, the real trouble starts. Without oil to provide diesel fuel or
>gasoline, trucks will not have fuel to transport food or anything
>else.
>
>As trucks run out of fuel and deliveries cease the cities will run out
>of food first. Most supermarkets only stock two to three days worth of
>food. No trucks means no deliveries and within days, the cities will
>run out of almost everything. This will cause almost immediate civil
>unrest by "you-know-who."
>
>Roving bands of hungry savages will then take to the streets looking
>to feed themselves. It will be ugly anarchy. People will be killing
>other people for food.
>
>Police will be almost immediately overwhelmed, making 911 useless. If
>you cannot protect yourself, your family and your property with guns,
>then you will likely die.
>
>When the cities are cleaned out and the savages have stolen all they
>can steal, they will turn their sights on the suburbs. Small suburban
>police departments will be instantly overwhelmed. Only those citizens
>who can protect themselves with guns will survive.
>
>We are entering a new phase of life here in America: survival of the
>fittest. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
>
>When "you-know-who" comes to loot, steal and kill they will get gunned
>down; and I think that will be a really good thing; we'll finally be
>rid of "them."
>
>With no jobs, the illegal aliens won't have any incentive to stay, so
>they'll leave too. That will be a really good thing because we'll
>finally be rid of "them" too.
>
>But the best part of this will be what happens to the "money-
>changers;" descendants of those same vipers that Jesus threw out of
>the Temple. They are going to get it really badly because in the end,
>every one of us knows they are the ones who caused all of this
>financial turmoil. If they thought World War 2 was a holocaust, they
>should stay tuned; this time we'll get it right. Once we are rid of
>these parasites, things will be better for decades.
>
>For the short-term, the pain of survival of the fittest. Yet in the
>long term, the gains we make will ultimately outweigh the pain.
>
>This is long overdue. Prepare to lock and load. Good luck.

Bring it on! Only out of social and financial chaos can a better
nation be created.

ted

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:48 am
From: clams_casino

It's obviously highly selfish, but we and likely a very significant
number of others) have begun a lock down of spending. Until the Dow
recovers above 12,000, our household will be postponing all non
essential spending. We intend to only pay fixed bills such as
insurance, taxes & mortgage while minimizing essential spending for
food, utilities & gasoline and eliminating / postponing all other spending.

Obviously, if a significant number follow this path, one can expect a
continuing accelerating downturn for many years.

We've already started by eliminating all meals out and have canceled
plans for a vacation next month (sorry motels, restaurants & movie
theaters) and as a family, we've agreed not to meet for Thanksgiving nor
Christmas this year (sorry airlines and retail stores).

Only the trailer park welfare recipents will be relatively untouched if
some type of rescue plan is not enacted.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:24 am
From: jisseigh

Well, claims, your family has somewhat of a headstart on reduction of
non-essential spending, since you haven't bought any bath soap,
deodorant, toothpaste, or toilet paper since December 2008. Good
work!

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:51 am
From: "Zeke"

It is called "Pay as you go"

Can the house purchasers that signed documents that said the house was going
to be their primary home, but they never lived in them, be prosecuted for
fraud?

Some had signed those document for 2 & 3 or more houses & flipped them.
Some went into foreclosure.

The document was necessary to get a mortgage for no money down & they could
only make interest payments. Many got rich by flipping the houses before
the bust.

Z
"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:BmoEk.7694$891.1807@newsfe07.iad...
>
> It's obviously highly selfish, but we and likely a very significant number
> of others) have begun a lock down of spending. Until the Dow recovers
> above 12,000, our household will be postponing all non essential spending.
> We intend to only pay fixed bills such as insurance, taxes & mortgage
> while minimizing essential spending for food, utilities & gasoline and
> eliminating / postponing all other spending.
>
> Obviously, if a significant number follow this path, one can expect a
> continuing accelerating downturn for many years.
>
> We've already started by eliminating all meals out and have canceled plans
> for a vacation next month (sorry motels, restaurants & movie theaters) and
> as a family, we've agreed not to meet for Thanksgiving nor Christmas this
> year (sorry airlines and retail stores).
>
> Only the trailer park welfare recipents will be relatively untouched if
> some type of rescue plan is not enacted.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many trillion has the FED already injected?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a9b52a8a6b700372?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 2:49 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

In <lMednbxoaqC_AnzVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@earthlink.com>, on 09/29/2008
at 11:38 PM, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> said:

>Robert Ladd wrote:
>> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>> news:uTfEk.557$ex3.230@newsfe02.iad...
>>> hpope@lycos.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sep 29, 5:04 pm, aeron...@flight.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just today another $630B....With this kind of injection, and banks
>>>>> still not lending, what makes the FED think another $700B will do it?
>>>>>
>>>> It just won't work. Look at the 100 billion stimulus package. Let
>>>> affected
>>>> banks go under.
>>>>
>>>> mitch
>>>>
>>> Obviously you don't understand the problem or the proposed solution.
>>>
>>
>> Explain then. One, the other, or both.

> In one word: liquidity.

> Google "Credit Crunch". You'll hit articles like this:

>(Overview)
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/29/AR2008092902762.html?hpid=topnews

>The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the
>seriousness of the situation.

We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason to bail
out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with their money.

>Americans fail to understand that they are facing the real prospect of a
>decade of little or no economic growth because of the bursting of a
>credit bubble that they helped create and that now threatens to bring
>down the global financial system.

>Politicians worry less about preventing a financial meltdown than about
>ideology, partisan posturing and teaching people a lesson. Financiers
>have yet to own up publicly to their own greed, arrogance and
>incompetence. And leaders of foreign governments still think that this
>is an American problem and that they have no need to mount similar
>rescue efforts in their own countries.

>In the coming weeks and months, all of these people will come to
>understand how deep the hole really is and how we're all in it together.

>They'll come to understand that the giant sucking sound they hear is of
>a massive deleveraging of the global economy and the global financial
>system as households, governments, businesses and investment funds
>adjust to living in a world with less debt and more inflation.

>And they will come around, reluctantly, to the understanding that the
>only way to get out of these situations is to have governments all
>around the world borrow gobs of money and effectively nationalize large
>swaths of the financial system so it can be restructured, recapitalized,
>reformed and returned to private ownership once the crisis has passed
>and the economy has gotten back on its feet.

>In the next few weeks, the center of attention here in the United States
>will shift from the Congress and an exhausted Treasury to the Federal
>Deposit Insurance Corp., which will now have to rescue any number of
>failing banks, either by taking them over directly or managing their
>transfer into stronger hands. It will also shift back to the Federal
>Reserve and other central banks, which will have to step up their
>efforts to maintain liquidity in money markets and prevent the credit
>crunch from taking down hedge funds, businesses, and state and local
>governments.

>These will, alas, be only holding actions. Restoring real stability to
>financial markets will require the kind of systemic approach and
>extraordinary government interventions that the public has refused to
>authorize and finance. In better times, the public might have put aside
>its reluctance in response to the strong and unified recommendation of
>political and business leaders. But it is a measure of how little trust
>remains in both Washington and Wall Street that voters are willing to
>risk a serious hit to their wealth and income rather than follow their
>lead.

>(A few specifics)
>http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2008/db20080928_348088.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis

>The ripple effects of the week that shook Wall Street are now being
>painfully absorbed by nonfinancial companies across the nation, from
>carmakers to casinos. "Tightening financial conditions have expanded to
>reach nearly all sectors," says Diane Vazza, managing director of global
>fixed income research at Standard & Poor's, which, like BusinessWeek, is
>owned by The McGraw-Hill Companies (MHP). "Screaming headlines about the
>financial sector might give some the misleading impression that
>nonfinancials are mercifully out of the line of fire. Nothing could be
>further from the truth. The heat will eventually spread."

>A growing number of companies are already feeling the heat. As of Sept.
>9, 57 companies had defaulted on $45.3 billion of debt for the year,
>according to S&P RatingsDirect, up from 22 companies defaulting in all
>of 2007. (While not a bankruptcy, a default sets off clear alarm bells
>about a company's fiscal health.) Of the 57, 45 are outside the
>financial industry. And more defaults are likely on the way: Roughly 70%
>of nonfinancial companies carry a noninvestment or junk credit rating.
>S&P projects that the three-year cumulative default rate between 2008
>and 2010 among nonfinancial firms with poor credit will rise to 23.2%,
>the worst on record since 1981.

>Discerning which firms will cave first is difficult, but S&P has
>identified 162 "weakest links," or companies in danger of defaulting
>over the next 12 months. It is the seventh straight month that the
>roster of credit-unworthy firms has grown. On that list are high-profile
>names such as United Airlines parent UAL, General Motors, Tribune, Six
>Flags (SIX), and Trump Entertainment Resorts.

> This is not about Wallstreet.

> Jeff
>>
>>
>> Robert Ladd
>>
>>

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:35 am
From: clams_casino

TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:

>
>
>
>
>>The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the
>>seriousness of the situation.
>>
>>
>
>We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason to bail
>out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with their money.
>

The fallacy is that the wealthy will generally survive a depression.
They may lose 3/4 of their wealth, but they will remain wealthy. The
poor will also remain generally untouched. It's the middle and upper
middle classes that have the most to lose.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 5:15 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

In <D9oEk.7329$891.5626@newsfe07.iad>, on 09/30/2008
at 07:35 AM, clams_casino <Petergriffin@Drunkinclam.com> said:

>TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the
>>>seriousness of the situation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason to bail
>>out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with their money.
>>

>The fallacy is that the wealthy will generally survive a depression.
>They may lose 3/4 of their wealth, but they will remain wealthy. The
>poor will also remain generally untouched. It's the middle and upper
>middle classes that have the most to lose.

Don't worry about it son. The people are going to throw the right wing out
of office in November. The people will be taken care of in the end. The
hell with the greedy, stupid crooks that caused the problem.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find bush and the right wing know this
and have exaggerated the situation, hoping the congress would be stupid
enough to blow all the money on the rich so they could nothing for the
People come Jan.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:10 am
From: "Paul Popinjay"

<TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:CLoEk.963$Dk4.647@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

>
> Don't worry about it son. The people are going to throw the right wing out
> of office in November. The people will be taken care of in the end. The
> hell with the greedy, stupid crooks that caused the problem.
>
> Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find bush and the right wing know this
> and have exaggerated the situation, hoping the congress would be stupid
> enough to blow all the money on the rich so they could nothing for the
> People come Jan.
>

TruthTeller, thank you for your comments about Bush. It is refreshing to
see your unique and provocative comments on our newsgroup.

I am the Assistant Coordinator at rec.gambling.poker and I have been
tasked with reviewing the Profiles of new posters who fall onto our
newsgroup by way of cross-posting. I couldn't help but notice that there is
no confirmation number in the upper righthand corner of your Profile. Sure,
the box is there, but there is no text in it. It is just blank!

I'm not a computer expert and I am not quite sure how you managed to post
without the confirmation number, unless perhaps you visited
rec.gambling.poker before the upgrade in 2004.

Please contact the Senior Coordinator and follow the instructions in his
reply email. The process is quick and simple, and once you complete it you
will be good to go.

Thank you,
-Paul Popinjay
Asst. Coordinator

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:18 am
From: Jeff

TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
> In <lMednbxoaqC_AnzVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@earthlink.com>, on 09/29/2008
> at 11:38 PM, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> said:
>
>
>
>> Robert Ladd wrote:
>>> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uTfEk.557$ex3.230@newsfe02.iad...
>>>> hpope@lycos.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 29, 5:04 pm, aeron...@flight.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just today another $630B....With this kind of injection, and banks
>>>>>> still not lending, what makes the FED think another $700B will do it?
>>>>>>
>>>>> It just won't work. Look at the 100 billion stimulus package. Let
>>>>> affected
>>>>> banks go under.
>>>>>
>>>>> mitch
>>>>>
>>>> Obviously you don't understand the problem or the proposed solution.
>>>>
>>> Explain then. One, the other, or both.
>
>> In one word: liquidity.
>
>> Google "Credit Crunch". You'll hit articles like this:
>
>> (Overview)
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/29/AR2008092902762.html?hpid=topnews
>
>> The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the
>> seriousness of the situation.
>
> We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason to bail
> out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with their money.

The whole problem is getting the credit market working without
bailing out the rich. But getting these markets working is important indeed.

City and State governments are in the same place as corporations.
They can not get financing, and when they do it is at a high cost.

The house of cards has been stacked. Now, I can watch it fall, but I
doubt most people can.

Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Americans fail to understand that they are facing the real prospect of a
>> decade of little or no economic growth because of the bursting of a
>> credit bubble that they helped create and that now threatens to bring
>> down the global financial system.
>
>> Politicians worry less about preventing a financial meltdown than about
>> ideology, partisan posturing and teaching people a lesson. Financiers
>> have yet to own up publicly to their own greed, arrogance and
>> incompetence. And leaders of foreign governments still think that this
>> is an American problem and that they have no need to mount similar
>> rescue efforts in their own countries.
>
>> In the coming weeks and months, all of these people will come to
>> understand how deep the hole really is and how we're all in it together.
>
>> They'll come to understand that the giant sucking sound they hear is of
>> a massive deleveraging of the global economy and the global financial
>> system as households, governments, businesses and investment funds
>> adjust to living in a world with less debt and more inflation.
>
>> And they will come around, reluctantly, to the understanding that the
>> only way to get out of these situations is to have governments all
>> around the world borrow gobs of money and effectively nationalize large
>> swaths of the financial system so it can be restructured, recapitalized,
>> reformed and returned to private ownership once the crisis has passed
>> and the economy has gotten back on its feet.
>
>> In the next few weeks, the center of attention here in the United States
>> will shift from the Congress and an exhausted Treasury to the Federal
>> Deposit Insurance Corp., which will now have to rescue any number of
>> failing banks, either by taking them over directly or managing their
>> transfer into stronger hands. It will also shift back to the Federal
>> Reserve and other central banks, which will have to step up their
>> efforts to maintain liquidity in money markets and prevent the credit
>> crunch from taking down hedge funds, businesses, and state and local
>> governments.
>
>> These will, alas, be only holding actions. Restoring real stability to
>> financial markets will require the kind of systemic approach and
>> extraordinary government interventions that the public has refused to
>> authorize and finance. In better times, the public might have put aside
>> its reluctance in response to the strong and unified recommendation of
>> political and business leaders. But it is a measure of how little trust
>> remains in both Washington and Wall Street that voters are willing to
>> risk a serious hit to their wealth and income rather than follow their
>> lead.
>
>> (A few specifics)
>> http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2008/db20080928_348088.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis
>
>> The ripple effects of the week that shook Wall Street are now being
>> painfully absorbed by nonfinancial companies across the nation, from
>> carmakers to casinos. "Tightening financial conditions have expanded to
>> reach nearly all sectors," says Diane Vazza, managing director of global
>> fixed income research at Standard & Poor's, which, like BusinessWeek, is
>> owned by The McGraw-Hill Companies (MHP). "Screaming headlines about the
>> financial sector might give some the misleading impression that
>> nonfinancials are mercifully out of the line of fire. Nothing could be
>> further from the truth. The heat will eventually spread."
>
>> A growing number of companies are already feeling the heat. As of Sept.
>> 9, 57 companies had defaulted on $45.3 billion of debt for the year,
>> according to S&P RatingsDirect, up from 22 companies defaulting in all
>> of 2007. (While not a bankruptcy, a default sets off clear alarm bells
>> about a company's fiscal health.) Of the 57, 45 are outside the
>> financial industry. And more defaults are likely on the way: Roughly 70%
>> of nonfinancial companies carry a noninvestment or junk credit rating.
>> S&P projects that the three-year cumulative default rate between 2008
>> and 2010 among nonfinancial firms with poor credit will rise to 23.2%,
>> the worst on record since 1981.
>
>> Discerning which firms will cave first is difficult, but S&P has
>> identified 162 "weakest links," or companies in danger of defaulting
>> over the next 12 months. It is the seventh straight month that the
>> roster of credit-unworthy firms has grown. On that list are high-profile
>> names such as United Airlines parent UAL, General Motors, Tribune, Six
>> Flags (SIX), and Trump Entertainment Resorts.
>
>
>> This is not about Wallstreet.
>
>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Robert Ladd
>>>
>>>
>

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:39 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

In <48adnUCOY-q4un_VnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, on 09/30/2008
at 09:18 AM, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> said:

>TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>> In <lMednbxoaqC_AnzVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@earthlink.com>, on 09/29/2008
>> at 11:38 PM, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Robert Ladd wrote:
>>>> "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uTfEk.557$ex3.230@newsfe02.iad...
>>>>> hpope@lycos.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 29, 5:04 pm, aeron...@flight.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just today another $630B....With this kind of injection, and banks
>>>>>>> still not lending, what makes the FED think another $700B will do it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It just won't work. Look at the 100 billion stimulus package. Let
>>>>>> affected
>>>>>> banks go under.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mitch
>>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously you don't understand the problem or the proposed solution.
>>>>>
>>>> Explain then. One, the other, or both.
>>
>>> In one word: liquidity.
>>
>>> Google "Credit Crunch". You'll hit articles like this:
>>
>>> (Overview)
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/29/AR2008092902762.html?hpid=topnews
>>
>>> The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the
>>> seriousness of the situation.
>>
>> We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason to bail
>> out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with their money.

> The whole problem is getting the credit market working without
>bailing out the rich. But getting these markets working is important
>indeed.

What isn't working. Examples? Leave out the banks that have caused the
problem by being stupid and greedy.

> City and State governments are in the same place as corporations.
>They can not get financing, and when they do it is at a high cost.

Pundits keep sending out this line -->but gee, we do not have one sinple
example of any state, city or corporation not getting the loans they need
-->except for the banks that got themselves into the deep shit by being
greedy and stupid.

Let them go bankrupt, then the treasury can step in.

> The house of cards has been stacked. Now, I can watch it fall, but I
>doubt most people can.

> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Americans fail to understand that they are facing the real prospect of a
>>> decade of little or no economic growth because of the bursting of a
>>> credit bubble that they helped create and that now threatens to bring
>>> down the global financial system.
>>
>>> Politicians worry less about preventing a financial meltdown than about
>>> ideology, partisan posturing and teaching people a lesson. Financiers
>>> have yet to own up publicly to their own greed, arrogance and
>>> incompetence. And leaders of foreign governments still think that this
>>> is an American problem and that they have no need to mount similar
>>> rescue efforts in their own countries.
>>
>>> In the coming weeks and months, all of these people will come to
>>> understand how deep the hole really is and how we're all in it together.
>>
>>> They'll come to understand that the giant sucking sound they hear is of
>>> a massive deleveraging of the global economy and the global financial
>>> system as households, governments, businesses and investment funds
>>> adjust to living in a world with less debt and more inflation.
>>
>>> And they will come around, reluctantly, to the understanding that the
>>> only way to get out of these situations is to have governments all
>>> around the world borrow gobs of money and effectively nationalize large
>>> swaths of the financial system so it can be restructured, recapitalized,
>>> reformed and returned to private ownership once the crisis has passed
>>> and the economy has gotten back on its feet.
>>
>>> In the next few weeks, the center of attention here in the United States
>>> will shift from the Congress and an exhausted Treasury to the Federal
>>> Deposit Insurance Corp., which will now have to rescue any number of
>>> failing banks, either by taking them over directly or managing their
>>> transfer into stronger hands. It will also shift back to the Federal
>>> Reserve and other central banks, which will have to step up their
>>> efforts to maintain liquidity in money markets and prevent the credit
>>> crunch from taking down hedge funds, businesses, and state and local
>>> governments.
>>
>>> These will, alas, be only holding actions. Restoring real stability to
>>> financial markets will require the kind of systemic approach and
>>> extraordinary government interventions that the public has refused to
>>> authorize and finance. In better times, the public might have put aside
>>> its reluctance in response to the strong and unified recommendation of
>>> political and business leaders. But it is a measure of how little trust
>>> remains in both Washington and Wall Street that voters are willing to
>>> risk a serious hit to their wealth and income rather than follow their
>>> lead.
>>
>>> (A few specifics)
>>> http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2008/db20080928_348088.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis
>>
>>> The ripple effects of the week that shook Wall Street are now being
>>> painfully absorbed by nonfinancial companies across the nation, from
>>> carmakers to casinos. "Tightening financial conditions have expanded to
>>> reach nearly all sectors," says Diane Vazza, managing director of global
>>> fixed income research at Standard & Poor's, which, like BusinessWeek, is
>>> owned by The McGraw-Hill Companies (MHP). "Screaming headlines about the
>>> financial sector might give some the misleading impression that
>>> nonfinancials are mercifully out of the line of fire. Nothing could be
>>> further from the truth. The heat will eventually spread."
>>
>>> A growing number of companies are already feeling the heat. As of Sept.
>>> 9, 57 companies had defaulted on $45.3 billion of debt for the year,
>>> according to S&P RatingsDirect, up from 22 companies defaulting in all
>>> of 2007. (While not a bankruptcy, a default sets off clear alarm bells
>>> about a company's fiscal health.) Of the 57, 45 are outside the
>>> financial industry. And more defaults are likely on the way: Roughly 70%
>>> of nonfinancial companies carry a noninvestment or junk credit rating.
>>> S&P projects that the three-year cumulative default rate between 2008
>>> and 2010 among nonfinancial firms with poor credit will rise to 23.2%,
>>> the worst on record since 1981.
>>
>>> Discerning which firms will cave first is difficult, but S&P has
>>> identified 162 "weakest links," or companies in danger of defaulting
>>> over the next 12 months. It is the seventh straight month that the
>>> roster of credit-unworthy firms has grown. On that list are high-profile
>>> names such as United Airlines parent UAL, General Motors, Tribune, Six
>>> Flags (SIX), and Trump Entertainment Resorts.
>>
>>
>>> This is not about Wallstreet.
>>
>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Robert Ladd
>>>>
>>>>
>>

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:39 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

Its simple son, I responded to *someone else who set up the cross-post.
If you are going to play know-it-all, smart ass geek, you need to know
more then you have shown here.

In <lzpEk.2825$be.2747@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>, on 09/30/2008
at 06:10 AM, "Paul Popinjay" <paulpopinjay[nospam]@sbcglobal.net> said:

><TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
>news:CLoEk.963$Dk4.647@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

>>
>> Don't worry about it son. The people are going to throw the right wing out
>> of office in November. The people will be taken care of in the end. The
>> hell with the greedy, stupid crooks that caused the problem.
>>
>> Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find bush and the right wing know this
>> and have exaggerated the situation, hoping the congress would be stupid
>> enough to blow all the money on the rich so they could nothing for the
>> People come Jan.
>>

>TruthTeller, thank you for your comments about Bush. It is refreshing to
>see your unique and provocative comments on our newsgroup.

>I am the Assistant Coordinator at rec.gambling.poker and I have been
>tasked with reviewing the Profiles of new posters who fall onto our
>newsgroup by way of cross-posting. I couldn't help but notice that there
>is no confirmation number in the upper righthand corner of your Profile.
>Sure, the box is there, but there is no text in it. It is just blank!

>I'm not a computer expert and I am not quite sure how you managed to post
>without the confirmation number, unless perhaps you visited
>rec.gambling.poker before the upgrade in 2004.

>Please contact the Senior Coordinator and follow the instructions in his
>reply email. The process is quick and simple, and once you complete it
>you will be good to go.

>Thank you,
>-Paul Popinjay
>Asst. Coordinator

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:47 am
From: "Paul Popinjay"

<TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:p_pEk.975$Dk4.845@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> Its simple son, I responded to *someone else who set up the cross-post.
> If you are going to play know-it-all, smart ass geek, you need to know
> more then you have shown here.
>

I apologize if you misinterpreted my post. I welcome your comments on
rec.gambling.poker. Our group is not just about poker, but it has blossomed
into a significant source of off-topic political commentary. Some of which
I have occasionally participated in. TruthTeller, I am not what you
referred to as a "geek". In fact, I am only semi-computer literate.
However, our newsgroup chose me as an aid to the Senior Coordinator and I
don't mind. I merely wanted you to know that your Profile had no
confirmation number. Did you even bother to check it? The box is
completely blank.

We have all had to go through this at some time before. Please simply
contact the Senior Coordinator, follow the link and instructions in his
reply email, and I will try not to bother you again, TruthTeller. Again, I
apologize if you were offended by anything I said.

Thank you,
-Paul Popinjay
Asst. Coordinator

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:18 am
From: "rick++"

Most of the Fed money is 1-day loans at 2%.
Banks are charging each other about 6% now for overnight loans.
That is the same as saying credit has completely evaporated
except for what the Fed provides.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:27 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article
<c189619f-ec7c-4938-8c2e-9a9aeb75664a@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Most of the Fed money is 1-day loans at 2%.
> Banks are charging each other about 6% now for overnight loans.
> That is the same as saying credit has completely evaporated
> except for what the Fed provides.

He, real facts. What are you trying to do? BTW, last night,
the rate was up to 7%. That is 2% for the cost of funds, and
5% because even the banks don't trust each other any more.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Webcam: Landie,19 year.New Jersey. Viens me voir et tu verras!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b0db8df11eaf230d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:16 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

Webcam: Landie,19 year.New Jersey. Viens me voir et tu verras!
http://ragdai.info/landie1989.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Birk (bailout)Plan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7353d0c8c3ba3c4a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:30 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>>No, I see it as a "no connection to reality" problem. If someone thinks
>>>
>>>
>we
>
>
>>>have 85BN or 700BN just sitting around waiting to be spent on bailing out
>>>irresponsible financial corporations, or to be re-distributed to the
>>>taxpayers, or whatever...
>>>
>>>They obviously aren't living on THIS planet. :) -Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Obviously you have no concept of what's going on - the problem or the
>>proposed solution.
>>
>>
>
>OK, enlighten me. Where will the U.S. government get $700 BILLION without
>borrowing it from other countries, like China, for example?
>

For a start, they aren't simply handing out $700M as you imply. They
will be using that money to buy assets & hold them off the market until
the economy improves. By holding those assets, there will be
significantly less pressure on homeowners to walk from their mortgages,
less pressure in forcing home owners to sell and allow banks to lend
where money is needed (most businesses borrow for inventory, etc).

If / when the economy improves, there is actually a potential to make
money on the resale of those assets. If the economy continues its
downward spiral, it won't matter much anyhow. The purpose is to lessen
/ bridge the trough of the current recession. The deeper the trough,
the longer it will be before there will be a recovery - possibly 10-20
years vs. a few years.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Usary: A Short History of Banking
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e91336dd257215ff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:53 am
From: tg

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=a2kfUNo4_r8

In the old days there was no paper money. The accepted token of
exchange was precious metal minted into coins by the Church and the
Crown. Because there was only a limited amount of gold and silver
available, the economic life of the nation had a certain regularity.

An even greater restriction existed throughout Christendom. This was a
prohibition against usury, or charging interest. The Church held it to
be a grave sin and the code was upheld by the civil powers. There were
harsh penalties for those who broke the law.

The regulation of usury was to prevent the separation of money from
reality. Money is not a good, it is a measure. It is fraud to pretend
otherwise, and constitutes theft. Usury is making money from lending
money; it is making money from nothing. This is exactly what is
happening today on a colossal scale.

Several important things arose from the prohibition of usury in
medieval Christendom. Firstly Jews, who had taken to wandering around
Europe in the Middle Ages, began to specialize in money-lending and
other practices which were forbidden to Christians. Exploited
Christians, both peasants and aristocracy, found themselves being bled
dry by usurers, which is why there were sporadic uprisings,
imprisonments and expulsions of Jews throughout Europe. It is one
reason why King Edward I expelled these perfidious people from England
in 1290. Oliver Cromwell allowed them back when the moral authority of
the Church was undermined and the King was beheaded in 1649.

Secondly, gold coins, jewels and other valuables were deposited with
people who held strongboxes. This was usually with goldsmiths and
money-lenders who, more often than not, were one and the same. These
loan-sharks and scriveners realized that, without much chance of being
found out, they could charge people for looking after their deposits
and then use those deposits – which did not belong to them – to make
loans to other people at interest. They soon became rich and powerful.

Gold coins are heavy and awkward to carry around so the custom arose
whereby the money-lenders would issue credit notes to depositors who
began to trade these notes between themselves in commercial
transactions. Paper money had come into existence.

A new form of usury developed as the swindling money-lenders realized
the immoral benefits that could be obtained from such a situation. It
became apparent to these thieves that they could go one step further
than dishonestly using other people's money for financial advantage at
no cost to themselves. They could invent money from absolutely
nothing. They could issue credit notes with nothing to back them up
and put them into circulation as interest-bearing debts. No-one would
be any the wiser. They calculated that they could safely issue notes
for up to ten times more than the gold deposits they held, because the
depositors would never ask for their deposits back all at the same
time.

The principle of modern banking was thus established: invent money
from nothing, put it into circulation as "running cash notes" that
have to be paid back with real wealth that is produced from our
labour, sit back and become unbelievably wealthy and powerful men:
hidden rulers of nations.

In England this deceitful system was officially sanctioned in 1694.
The usurper of the throne, William of Orange, had overthrown the
legitimate King James II with the financial backing and plotting of
powerful Jewish financiers in Amsterdam. In return he gave the
sovereignty of England to a group of financiers by means of a Charter
allowing them to call themselves the Bank of England. The Charter made
no mention of issuing the nation's money, but within minutes of
signing the new Bank officials were discussing the form of their
"running cash notes." The same system was adopted in every country by
a process of Masonic revolution and manipulation.

FREEMASONRY AND COMMUNISM

Socialist theorists and ideologues have never attacked the essential
mechanism of capitalism. Although the injustices of the capitalist
system have been attacked in volume after volume, and rightly so, they
have never even hinted at the usury upon which the whole system is
built and from which all the other injustices stem.

Perhaps this is because so many Communist leaders are Jewish. Most of
the 'Russian Revolutionists' of 1917 were actually Jews from the lower
east side of New York City. Two hundred and seventy-five of them were
conveyed to Russia aboard the S.S. Christiana, led by Trotsky and
financed by Kuhns, Loebs, Schiffs and Warburgs. This cosy circle of
Jews and Freemasons financed both sides of the Great War.

Marx and Engels, two more Jews, wrote the Communist Manifesto on
behalf of a secret society calling themselves 'The League of Just
Men.' This secret society was an arm of the Illuminati, whose power
and influence was the catalyst of the French Revolution. One of the
founding members of the Illuminati was the House of Rothschild, the
Jewish banking house which practically invented supra-nationalism for
personal profit.

THE SITUATION TODAY

Nowadays banking has become extremely sophisticated but the hidden and
usurious mechanism behind it remains the same. After a big enquiry,
hushed up as much as possible, the Bank of England was nationalised in
1946. In theory control of the Bank of England should then have passed
from a group of private individuals to the British Government, but
this is still not the case. Nationalisation only added a thin veneer
of respectability.

The British Treasury, in conjunction with the Bank of England's
advisers to the Government, determine how much paper money and coin
will be issued each year. This has to accord with the wealth of the
nation for that year. But because banknotes and coins only account for
a tiny percentage of financial transactions, it makes no difference to
the bankers at all. Most financial transactions are carried out with
abstract figures on a computer screen that have no relationship to
real wealth. Everything has to be paid for at interest though – even
when it doesn't exist!

The Government still has to pay interest on old and new loans from the
Bank. Only a few years ago it was announced that the interest debt on
a loan taken during the Napoleonic War had just been paid off! This is
where much of our tax money goes.

THE NEXT STAGE

The next stage of development for international finance is to get rid
of cash altogether. Then the token accountability of the bankers will
disappear along with the cash. Their intention is that everyone will
have to use credit/debit cards for every type of commercial
transaction.

Electronic technology, when used this way, and when it is not merely
widespread but compulsory, will give them complete control of every
man, woman and child in the world. If you cannot buy or sell – food,
petrol, clothes – without a card you are completely at their mercy. If
you lose the card or it doesn't work for some reason you will suffer
until issued with a replacement. If you make a protest against some
particular injustice they could invalidate your card. The next time
you go to the supermarket your card may not work. You won't officially
exist!

Who benefits from such a scheme? The politicians or the bankers? To
ask the question is to answer it. The Bank of England is the real, but
hidden, government of the country. The Government and the politicians
are merely puppets controlled by the Bank – or, more accurately, the
international banking families. None of our cowardly politicians dare
stand up to these hidden and unelected rulers of the world, so
powerful have they become. Two American presidents, possibly three,
were assassinated for attempting to do so. It is far easier for them
to submit to the system and enjoy a rich life than expose the real
tyrants: tyrants who cause high taxes, unemployment, war, famine and
misery for the rest of us. But these despots of the New World Order
forget that Truth is more powerful than they could ever become. And
Truth brings Justice!

The pen is mightier than the pound! This article first appeared in
issue 5 of 'The Anvil,' published by The Third Position, BCM ITP,
London, WC1N 3XX.

http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/usury.html

www.jewwatch.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Classic Documentary: The Money Masters - How International Bankers
Gained Control of America
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66e69394e8306a50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 5:24 am
From: "$80 Dollar PC News Network"

This film is the one must see documentary. WATCH IT! Don't allow
yourself to go any further in ignorance.

VIDEO:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

"The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching plan, nothing
less than to create a world system of financial control in private
hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the
economy of the world as a whole...Their secret is that they have
annexed from governments, monarchies, and republics the power to
create the world's money..."

THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary
that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules
our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure
has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and
other forms of money.
The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th
century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques
initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth.
With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the
yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first
forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made
heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day.
Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal
of international central bankers.

Explanation of Contents:

The Problem
The Money Changers
Roman Empire
The Goldsmiths of Medieval England
Tally Sticks
The Bank of England
The Rise of the Rothschilds
The American Revolution
The Bank of North America
The Constitutional Convention
First Bank of the U.S.
Napoleon's Rise to Power
Death of the First Bank of the U.S. / War of 1812
Waterloo
Second Bank of the U.S.
Andrew Jackson
Fort Knox
World Central Bank

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Video-PhilosophyOfZionismAndIsrael.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nike Air Jordan 1 I Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 1 AJF1 AJ1F www.ciciaaa.
cn Jordan 1 fusionNike Air Jordan 1 I Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 1 AJF1 AJ1F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 1 fusionNike Air Jordan 1 I Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 1
AJF1 AJ1F www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 1 fusion www.ciciaaa.cn Nike dunk sb, air
force one, air max, Jordans, Jordan fusion, nike shox
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7f76eb3dfd939e24?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 5:29 am
From: cicitrade01@yahoo.cn

Nike Air Jordan 1 I Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 1 AJF1 AJ1F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 1 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 2 II Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 2 AJF2 AJ2F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 2 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 3 III Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 3 AJF3 AJ3F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 3 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 4 IV Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 4 AJF4 AJ4F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 4 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 5 V Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 5 AJF5 AJ5F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 5 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 6 VI Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 6 AJF6 AJ6F Jordan 6
Rings www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 6

fusion
Nike Air Jordan 7 VII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 7 AJF7 AJ7F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 7 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 8 VIII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 8 AJF8 AJ8F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 8 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 9 IX Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 9 AJF9 AJ9F www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 9 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 10 X Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 10 AJF10 AJ10F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 10 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 11 XI Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 11 AJF11 AJ11F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 11 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 12 XII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 12 AJF12 AJ12F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 12 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 13 XIII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 13 AJF13 AJ13F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 13 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 14 XIV Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 14 AJF14 AJ14F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 14 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 15 XV Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 15 AJF15 AJ15F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 15 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 16 XVI Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 16 AJF16 AJ16F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 16 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 17 XVII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 17 AJF17 AJ17F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 17 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 18 XVIII Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF18 AJF18 AJ18F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 18 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 19 XIX Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 19 AJF19 AJ19F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 19 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 20 XX Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 20 AJF20 AJ20F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 20 fusion
Nike Air Jordan 21 XXI PE Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 21 AJF21 AJ21F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 21 fusion
Nike Air Jordan XXII 22 Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 22 AJF22 AJ22F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 22 fusion
Nike Air Jordan XXIII 23 Force 1 Jordan Fusion AJF 23 AJF23 AJ23F
www.ciciaaa.cn Jordan 23 fusion
Jordan 4-11 Fusion www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 7-8 Fusion www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 10-12 Fusion www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 11-13 Fusion www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 9-23 Fusion www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 13-23 Fusion www.ciciaaa.cn
Jordan 1 jordan 4 jordan 5 jordan 5 fusion jordan 5 jordan 3 fusion
jordan 3 Jordan 23 jordan 11 jordan 12

jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 6 jordan 6 rings
jordan 13 jordan 14 jordan 15 jordan 2 Jordan 7.5 Jordan 9.5 Jordan
12.5 Jordan 3.5 Jordan 4.5 Jordan

15.5 Jordan 19.5 Jordan 21.5 Jordan 21 Jordan 22
AIR Jordan 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
shoes on www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 1 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 2 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 3 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 4 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 6 Rings www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 6 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 7 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 8 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 9 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 10 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 11 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 12 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 13 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 14 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 15 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 16 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 17 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 18 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 19 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 20 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 21 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 22 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 23 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 3.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR AIR Jordan 4.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 7.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 9.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 12.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 15.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 19.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan 21.5 www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan Large Size Jordan www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan Size 14 Jordan www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan Size 15 shoes www.ciciaaa.cn
AIR Jordan DMP www.ciciaaa.cn
cicitrade@live.cn
Air max 87 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 89 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 90 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 91 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 95 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 97 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 2003 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max 2006 www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max tn www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max ltd www.ciciaaa.cn
Air max stab www.ciciaaa.cn
www.ciciaaa.cn
cicitrade@live.cn
Shox R3 www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox R4 www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox R5 www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox R6 www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox OZ www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox NZ www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox Zoom www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox TL3 www.ciciaaa.cn
Shox Monester www.ciciaaa.cn
Nike shox www.ciciaaa.cn
cicitrade@live.cn
Nike air force one, air force 1, air force one low cut, air force one
high cut, air force one release date
Air force one, air foce one 25TH, af 1, af 1 25TH, Nike air force one
new releases, limited version
Air Force One www.ciciaaa.cn
Air Force one 25TH www.ciciaaa.cn
AF 1 www.ciciaaa.cn
AF 1 25TH www.ciciaaa.cn
www.ciciaaa.cn
cicitrade@live.cn
Dunk sb nike sb dunk nike dunk sb dunk sb high dunk sb low dunk sb
woman
Nike sb dunk Nike Dunk High SB nike dunk low premuim sb Nike SB Dunk
High Shimizu
Nike SB Dunk Pro Nike SB Dunk Dunk SB www.ciciaaa.cn
Nike Dunk shoes www.ciciaaa.cn
Dunk shoes for woman www.ciciaaa.cn
Dunk low cut www.ciciaaa.cn
Dunk high cut www.ciciaaa.cn
Timberland Boots - Timberland Shoes - Timberland Footwear
UGG? boots for women, men and kids
UGG Classic Short, Classic Short Boots, Classic Sheepskin Boots

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video Game Bundle - Price Reduction
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c5e1d25dc6707023?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:00 am
From: ClothesOut

Check out the item I recently listed:
- 5-pc. Video Game Bundle w/Wireless Controller (PS3 & GBA). Starting
bid has been lowered to $49.99. Consists of 2 PlayStation 3 & 2 Game
Boy Advance games and a SIXAXIS wireless controller. Go to
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300262074975 for
the full description and to place your bid today!

Auction ends tomorrow - Wed., October 1st. If this item doesn't appeal
to you, consider telling one of your friends.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Question about a new website called Bailecn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fbb64cc5bd1e6f4c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:29 am
From: clams_casino

itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net wrote:

>On Sep 29, 9:11 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>John James wrote:
>>
>>
>>>clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>>>(Shakes head at the gullibility of people that claim to be
>>>>>intelligent adults.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Did you know the word gullible is not found in any major dictionary or
>>>>spell-check program?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>http://onelook.com/?w=gullible
>>>
>>>
>>You obviously made that up. Try to find gullible in a major dictionary.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Evidently you don't know how to use a dictionary. I have no problem
>finding the word 'gullible' in any dictionary. Try picking up one and
>going to the G's, take your time, there's no hurry, flip the pages and
>you'll find the word gullible.
>
>Spelling wasn't a strong point for you, was it??
>
>
>

You're making that up, right?

You need to recheck and see if it's still there.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:53 am
From: itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net

On Sep 30, 8:29 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>
> >>You obviously made that up. Try to find gullible in a major dictionary.
>
> >Evidently you don't know how to use a dictionary. I have no problem
> >finding the word 'gullible' in any dictionary. Try picking up one and
> >going to the G's, take your time, there's no hurry, flip the pages and
> >you'll find the word gullible.
>
> >Spelling wasn't a strong point for you, was it??
>
> You're making that up, right?
>
> You need to recheck and see if it's still there.- Hide quoted text -
>
>
You just don't know when you're beat, do you? What dictionary are
*you* looking in?? Try Encarta, try any dictionary for that matter,
whether online or an actual hardcopy version.

Just retrieved from Encarta:

gul·li·ble [ gúlləb'l ]

adjective

Definition:

easily duped: tending to trust and believe people, and therefore
easily tricked or deceived

[Early 19th century. <gull2]

gul·li·bil·i·ty [ gùllə bíllətee ] noun
gul·li·bly [ gúlləblee ] adverb

Satisfied that it's REALLY in modern, up-to-date dictionaries and
still a word in use????

A little knowledge goes a long way.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:25 am
From: clams_casino

itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net wrote:

>On Sep 30, 8:29 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>You obviously made that up. Try to find gullible in a major dictionary.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Evidently you don't know how to use a dictionary. I have no problem
>>>finding the word 'gullible' in any dictionary. Try picking up one and
>>>going to the G's, take your time, there's no hurry, flip the pages and
>>>you'll find the word gullible.
>>>
>>>
>>>Spelling wasn't a strong point for you, was it??
>>>
>>>
>>You're making that up, right?
>>
>>You need to recheck and see if it's still there.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>You just don't know when you're beat, do you? What dictionary are
>*you* looking in?? Try Encarta, try any dictionary for that matter,
>whether online or an actual hardcopy version.
>
>Just retrieved from Encarta:
>
>
>gul·li·ble [ gúlləb'l ]
>
>
>adjective
>
>Definition:
>
>easily duped: tending to trust and believe people, and therefore
>easily tricked or deceived
>
>
>[Early 19th century. <gull2]
>
>
> gul·li·bil·i·ty [ gùllə bíllətee ] noun
>gul·li·bly [ gúlləblee ] adverb
>
>
>Satisfied that it's REALLY in modern, up-to-date dictionaries and
>still a word in use????
>
>A little knowledge goes a long way.
>
>
>
>
Is it still there today?

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Tuesday, September 30, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

No comments: