Frugal Living: 15 new messages in 8 topics

Friday, October 10, 2008

15 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: The $810 BILLION bailout ... what does it mean to ME???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1371c8463057fd8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 6:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

nospam <nospam@comcast.invalid.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dave <noway@nohow.not> wrote

>>>> So much for THAT theory - DOW just closed at 8579! Wow!!!

>>>> (I guess you can always worry it might have been even worse).

>>> To put it in perspective... the DOW lost 7% in ONE DAY.

>>> Now watch some fricking moron claim with a straight face
>>> that the $810 BILLION bailout was not a terrible idea.

>> You dunno what it would have done if Congress had refused to do the bailout, fool.

> Yeah, it's like asking Saddam Hussein to prove he didn't have WMDs.

> Same game.

> Bush has finally attained his long-term goal to be dictator.

Nope, he'll be gone in months, you watch. He wont even be able to get his own party's
candidate to replace him as Prez, or have any control over Congress either, you watch.

> If you want to know which corporations are being allowed to live and which
> are not, simply refer to your handy list of major Republican Party donors.

Pity about Lehmans.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: getting cats spayed and neutered
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/291bfc820205c6fb?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 6:55 pm
From: James

On Oct 9, 6:43 pm, Marsha <m...@xeb.net> wrote:
> OhioGuy wrote:
> > My wife is saying she would like to get them fixed. About 8 years
> > ago, I got my cat fixed for $35, and now it is $55 at a local shelter.
>
> $55.00 for spay and/or neuter? They can't all be females.
>
> Marsha/Ohio

I read in the metro DC area they have fix and release programs. Don't
remember if they are free or not and it may be one weekend a month.
They fix them and than clip a bit of their ear to ID they're fixed.
They may have something similar near you. Don't know if it's worth it
for you to make a trip to DC.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:31 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, Marsha wrote:

> Vic Smith wrote:
>> My 12 year-old dog is almost unable to walk with arthritis and muscle
>> loss, and going soft in the head. Have to put her down real soon.
>> If I was in the country I'd shoot her and bury her myself, but I think
>> the vet doing it is going to cost me a couple hundred bucks.
>> Anybody have experience with this?
>>
>> --Vic
>
> Have you called around? It shouldn't cost you anywhere near that. My
> 24-year-old cat, whose kidneys gave out, was put down last year and my
> regular vet only charged 75.00. Worth every penny and more, to me. It took
> about half an hour, much longer than usual, because her heart just wouldn't
> stop beating. Two more injections later, she finally gave up. She always
> was a fighter.

Half an hour, that makes no sense. The object is to give them enough
juice to put them down quickly. And since they weigh only about 10
pounds it cannot take much. It's very sad to have to put a pet down
but I just wonder how that happened.

> Marsha/Ohio
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: KFC 9.99 bucket
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5651e6f0a42596cd?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:34 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, clams_casino wrote:

> Siskuwihane wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 2:47 am, larry <f...@foobar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> James wrote:
>>>
>>>> How much would the raw chicken cost you at regular supermarket
>>>> prices? At sale prices? Assume you cook regularly and have all the
>>>> other stuff necessary for fried chicken so their cost is minor.
>>>>
>>> Healthwise, you would do much better to bake or roast your
>>> chicken for better flavor, reduced fat and carbs.
>>>
>>
>> That's not the question being asked.
>>
>>
>>
>>> We pay a high price for our highly processed food in the
>>> name of saving time and a few cents.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, we know.
>>
>> Some of us also like KFC every now and then and do not need preached
>> to everytime a question about fast food is brought up.
>>
>> Would you like to be told about veganism or the cruelty of poultry
>> processing plants every time you mention roasting chicken? How buying
>> chicken supports illegal aliens working in the plants? Probably not.
>>
>
> KFC quality is so erratic, it's a rarity that I'd consider them. For a
> while, Popeyes was a preferred source, but their quality seems to have
> slipped in recent years.
>
> Perhaps that's best as I rarely consider fried chicken any more.

I used to get the jones for KFC and the last time I got it I was looking
so forward to eating it but when I took my first bite I thought,
"this just might be rat meat". I mean, I had a piece that resembled
no part of a chicken I was acquainted with.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:41 pm
From: Zuke

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, kilikini wrote:

> James wrote:
>> I'll just assume no one who answered ever fried enough chicken to know
>> how much it would cost them to make the equivalent amount of KFC
>> chicken. Guess those of you who cook never compared compared the
>> cost.
>
> Okay, I'll bite. We can get a 10 pound bag of chicken leg quarters for
> about $5 at "the dreaded meat store". Cut up the quarters (free). Cornmeal
> mix is $1.39 for an entire bag, which only a fraction is used. Garlic, salt
> & pepper is negligible. Oil? I'd say $1's worth.
>
> Since there is only two of us and I don't usually eat chicken anyway, we
> obviously don't use up the whole 10 pounds of chicken.
>
> I'd say homemade fried chicken is cheaper (and better!) than KFC.
>

You have only legs which most people don't prefer. You don't figure
in the time you take to cook it or clean up the mess. You still probably
come out ahead. When's dinner?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 9:33 pm
From: James

On Oct 9, 11:41 pm, Zuke <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008, kilikini wrote:
> > James wrote:
> >> I'll just assume no one who answered ever fried enough chicken to know
> >> how much it would cost them to make the equivalent amount of KFC
> >> chicken. Guess those of you who cook never compared compared the
> >> cost.
>
> > Okay, I'll bite. We can get a 10 pound bag of chicken leg quarters for
> > about $5 at "the dreaded meat store". Cut up the quarters (free). Cornmeal
> > mix is $1.39 for an entire bag, which only a fraction is used. Garlic, salt
> > & pepper is negligible. Oil? I'd say $1's worth.
>
> > Since there is only two of us and I don't usually eat chicken anyway, we
> > obviously don't use up the whole 10 pounds of chicken.

>
> > I'd say homemade fried chicken is cheaper (and better!) than KFC.
>
> You have only legs which most people don't prefer. You don't figure
> in the time you take to cook it or clean up the mess. You still probably
> come out ahead. When's dinner?- Hide quoted text -
>
I prefer dark meat because it has more fat. White meat is a little
dry for me.

Supermarket cooked chicken really smells good but I've never ate one
that I liked.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What can you buy with $85 Billion?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7418d6fe7f8b4808?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:54 pm
From: A 'Nam Veteran

Two weeks ago, Treasury Secretary Paulson bailed out American Insurance
Group (AIG)
with $85 billion dollars in taxpayer money - and now they are back for
more. He said
they needed it to stay afloat. Now, we know what they did with our money.

AIG executives headed out on a taxpayer funded junket to the St. Regis
resort in
California. While there, they had a blast at our expense. They helped
themselves
to:(1)

* $201,047.42 for hotel rooms and $147,301.71 for catered banquets
* $23,380 for the hotel spa and another $1,488 for the salon.
* Golf for $6,939.09 and $5,016.32 spent at the Tavern.

Now they are back at the trough. This is outrageous. Tell Treasury
Secretary
Paulson: The Director who authorized this junket should be fired and
every penny
spent on this lavish retreat must be returned to the Treasury.

Send a message to Secretary Paulson right now
http://act.truemajorityaction.org/p/7002/campaign?campaign_KEY=1553
--
Money; What a concept !

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Depression 2: 2008 - 2012
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b260cd3d2eb87704?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:53 pm
From: JonL

OhioGuy wrote:
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.

>The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?

My guess is, the term isn't used for the same reason 90% of storms at
sea aren't given names. (too weak to qualify as typhoons/hurricanes)

Locally, it might seem like, or feel like a depression, but that doesn't
make it so. (feelings ain't facts)

from Wisegeek:
What is the Difference Between a Depression and a Recession?

http://tinyurl.com/4eqg4w

Many econ-types are predicting a long, deep recession or a Mild to Fair
Depression.

The latest from the Trends-dude"

Celente - Bailout A Bust - Depression To Follow
http://www.trendsresearch.com/
<snipped>
Beyond the $1 trillion subprime problem that's been erroneously targeted
as the prime culprit behind the credit crisis are more serious financial
catastrophes that are barely reported, mostly overlooked and can't be
remedied. The Fed can't print enough money to paper over the $531.2
trillion in derivatives and credit swaps, the trillions in the overbuilt
commercial real estate market ready to collapse, the multi-trillions in
leveraged buyouts going bust, and other "exotic" financial instruments
that have turned toxic.

Trendpost: The Panic of '08 is "On." Yet, the instant the Dow crashed
678 points today, Bloomberg Radio brought on an expert who declared
"most of the crash is behind us" and said the market plunge presented "a
good buying opportunity." We see things differently. Yesterday's
lowering of interest rates and the continual Fed action to flood the
markets with money will lead to an era of hyper-inflation, the likes of
which no living American has ever seen.
<snip>

In 2008, Americans will wake up to the worst economic times that anyone
alive has ever seen. ~Gerald Celente, Trends Research
Institute,12-17-2007

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 8:56 pm
From: JonL

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
>
>> ... Inflation on food and other items has approached 40%.
>
> To a rate of 5.37% in August? :-)
>
>> ... I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
>
> You might look up "inflation rate."
>

Or you could look up "fudging the inflation rate, or the Misery Index.

http://www.shadowstats.com

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 9:16 pm
From: JonL

OhioGuy wrote:
> >During the Depression the unemployment rate in the US was around 25%
> >and it lasted for years. We're nowhere near that point as yet
>
> Seems as if many places here in Ohio are already halfway there - 12%
> unemployment in a number of cities. There are $80K houses that go
> unsold for half that, because the jobs are gone.

Look at the bright side. That official number,12%,would be much higher
if calculated the same way as during the Carter era. Clinton destroyed
whatever credibility was left in the official figures.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data

The popularly followed unemployment rate was 5.5% in July 2004,
seasonally adjusted. That is known as U-3, one of six unemployment rates
published by the BLS. The broadest U-6 measure was 9.5%, including
discouraged and marginally attached workers.

Up until the Clinton administration, a discouraged worker was one who
was willing, able and ready to work but had given up looking because
there were no jobs to be had. The Clinton administration dismissed to
the non-reporting netherworld about five million discouraged workers who
had been so categorized for more than a year. Adding in the netherworld
takes the unemployment rate up to about 12.5%.

The Clinton administration also reduced monthly household sampling from
60,000 to about 50,000, eliminating significant surveying in the inner
cities. Despite claims of corrective statistical adjustments, reported
unemployment among people of color declined sharply, and the piggybacked
poverty survey showed a remarkable reversal in decades of worsening
poverty trends.

(trivia: b4 leaving office, it was changed back to sampling 60k, a gift
for the new prez, I guess)

Shadowstats debunked
http://tinyurl.com/4k634w

==============================================================================
TOPIC: -google_groups- Re: Should I renew my AIG auto insurance policy or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b89a5d081044ad3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 9:33 pm
From: JonL

itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net wrote:
> On Oct 8, 4:02 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 7:42 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>>>> On Oct 6, 8:17 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>>>> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> My auto insurance policy is with AIG, and it is about to expire. The
>>>>> rate is pretty good, so I want to renew the policy, but I wonder if I
>>>>> should look for another company, given their problems? Will AIG
>>>>> disappear, or does their bailout mean they definitely won't disappear?
>>>> why deal with lying scum...find a more honorable company to deal
>>>> with..and do some research, make sure its not backed by AIG, as many
>>>> are.
>>>> Phil scott
>>> What an idiot.
>> For sure, why pick on such honest and reputable people? I just don't get
>> it either...
>>
>> "For some people at AIG, the insurance giant rescued last month with an
>> $85 billion federal bailout, the good times keep rolling."
>>
>> "Former chief executive Martin J. Sullivan, whose three-year tenure
>> coincided with much of the company's ill-fated risk-taking, is receiving
>> a $5 million performance bonus."
>>
>> "And just last week, about 70 of the company's top performers were
>> rewarded with a week-long stay at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch
>> Beach, Calif., where they ran up a tab of $440,000."
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR200...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Ummmmm, it was TEN of their top INDEPENDENT agents who were at this
> retreat. A retreat that was planned long before the shit hit the fan.

If you'd already planned a birthday party, and the person died a week or
so b4 the planned day, would you still go ahead with the party...??

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Benefits of frugality?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9afc6b52c0d2d5fb?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:50 pm
From: phil scott

On Oct 9, 3:34 pm, timeOday <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> Recent events have me feeling I am being dragged into debt
> involuntarily, only to prop up stocks, investment banks, and home
> prices. Those who bought homes they couldn't afford are being supported
> by those who didn't, punishing the frugal. This is depressing.
>
> On the bright side, let's look at how being frugal pays off during times
> like these.
>
> (I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive to retirees who are
> watching their investments go down the tubes and savings ravaged by
> inflation in prices for food, energy, and health care... just trying to
> find a silver lining):
>
> * You aren't upside on a loan for an SUV you can no longer afford either
> to refuel or sell.
> * You don't have an adjustable rate mortgage about to reset, ravaging
> your finances.
> * You don't have a big balance on credit cards where the interest rate
> could skyrocket at any moment.
> * Living beneath your means gives you a cushion to absorb temporary
> shocks in gas and food prices.
>
> more?

no rent, no mortgage, no taxes if you live on a boat or in a
motorhome....and you can work anywhere..a huge advantage.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:52 pm
From: phil scott

On Oct 9, 4:00 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:34:25 -0600, timeOday
>
>
>
>
>
> <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> >Recent events have me feeling I am being dragged into debt
> >involuntarily, only to prop up stocks, investment banks, and home
> >prices. Those who bought homes they couldn't afford are being supported
> >by those who didn't, punishing the frugal. This is depressing.
>
> >On the bright side, let's look at how being frugal pays off during times
> >like these.
>
> >(I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive to retirees who are
> >watching their investments go down the tubes and savings ravaged by
> >inflation in prices for food, energy, and health care... just trying to
> >find a silver lining):
>
> >* You aren't upside on a loan for an SUV you can no longer afford either
> >to refuel or sell.
> >* You don't have an adjustable rate mortgage about to reset, ravaging
> >your finances.
> >* You don't have a big balance on credit cards where the interest rate
> >could skyrocket at any moment.
> >* Living beneath your means gives you a cushion to absorb temporary
> >shocks in gas and food prices.
>
> >more?
>
> No mortgage, no auto loan, no debt at all other than month-to-month
> utility bills and credit card charges (paid off each month).
>
> The Dow is about where it was 5 1/2 years ago. I didn't feel
> desperately broke then, either.
>
> I guess we'll see.
>
> --
> It looks like freedom
> But it smells like death
> It's something in between,
> I guess
> It's closing time - Leonard Cohen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

the dow is way *below where it was 5 years ago... its in the 1995
range if you figure the devalued dollar... average about 10 pct a year
real inflation over the last 15 years... about 20 pct a year now.

Bread was 2 dollars a loaf then or less. 1.25 or so...now its 5
dollars
to stay even the dow would have to be at 20 or 30,000

the govts cpi is bogus.

Phil scott

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:55 pm
From: phil scott

On Oct 9, 4:29 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> timeOday wrote:
> > Recent events have me feeling I am being dragged into debt
> > involuntarily, only to prop up stocks, investment banks, and home
> > prices. Those who bought homes they couldn't afford are being supported
> > by those who didn't, punishing the frugal. This is depressing.
>
> > On the bright side, let's look at how being frugal pays off during times
> > like these.
>
> > (I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive to retirees who are
> > watching their investments go down the tubes and savings ravaged by
> > inflation in prices for food, energy, and health care... just trying to
> > find a silver lining):
>
> > * You aren't upside on a loan for an SUV you can no longer afford either
> > to refuel or sell.
> > * You don't have an adjustable rate mortgage about to reset, ravaging
> > your finances.
> > * You don't have a big balance on credit cards where the interest rate
> > could skyrocket at any moment.
> > * Living beneath your means gives you a cushion to absorb temporary
> > shocks in gas and food prices.
>
> > more?
>
> Donald Trump said oil would go back to $20/bbl. T.Boone Pickens bet
> him $100K that it would never see $50 again and said that Trump should
> stick to real estate. We're only part way into this crisis and we're
> more than half way down the price ladder. Fueling the SUV might not be
> a big problem the way it's going.
>
> Saving your money or avoiding a credit balance won't be much help if
> the dollar is devalued and the other guy's loans are forgiven.
>
> I see very little good in all this. Perfecting one's non monetary
> survival skills could be very helpful.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

correct.

imo

however perfecting ones dire times earning capabilty is even better
imo... the money can be so perverted that it ends badly no matter
what...but earning skills for dire times keeps on bringing in the
bacon.

my plan... not easy though

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Basic advice for an oven bake element house fire (GE JBP24B0B4WH)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f61775d3cbf26100?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 9 2008 11:54 pm
From: Donna Ohl

On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:32:56 GMT, NoSpamForMe@LousyISP.gov wrote:
> Call the Repair Clinic guy at 800-269-2609 instead.
> He's a lot more friendly.

Hi NoSpam,

Actually, I called the numbers that Crumb Bum gave us and GE, after about a
half hour of bouncing around, wrote up a work ticket for me and kindly
shipped the element at an 80% discount and they even dropped the shipping.

The only thing I had to pay full on was the tax (which for California is
over 8%).

The new genuine GE element should arrive soon from UPS at a total cost of
about $38 off my credit card.

So, even though Crumb Bum must have been under the weather that day, he
helped me get the parts for a great price (I think).

BTW, the GE parts representative kept touting "genuine GE" but I wonder if
all the parts are the same. I'll bet they are.

Anyone know which brand of oven parts is any better or worse than the
others?

Donna

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Frugal Living

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Friday, October 10, 2008

15 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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