Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

Wednesday, October 8, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Math on the bailout doesn't add up...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3213ff522966e10e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 7 2008 9:22 pm
From: Michael Coburn

On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:09:20 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:

> Michael Coburn wrote:
>
>
>> The Republicans were indeed responsible for the Tech Stock bubble and
>> the Housing bubble.
>>
>> The Bubbles:
>>
>> IN 1997 the Gingrich Congress passed the "Taxpayer Relief Act" as a
>> totally veto proof bill. Clinton could no more veto this Republican
>> tax cut than he could have turned back the tide. The vote in the House
>> was 3xx to < 50 and in the Senate it was 90 to 8 (or close to it). No
>> veto of that bill was possible. It was a Republican bill all the way.
>> That tax code adjustment allowed people to cash out of their homes (a
>> retirement vehicle for most Americans) and to use the TAX FREE capital
>> gains for speculative purposes in the highly touted tech stocks and, at
>> the sam3e time to use a new home as a speculative vehicle.. And the
>> gains from such gambling ("investment") would be taxed at a mere 15%.
>> Prior to this speculation enabling bill homeowners could move from one
>> home to another with no tax penalty and could then take a one time
>> exemption at retirement (empty nest). But the new rules allowed the
>> American to use the money from the house to gamble in both real estate
>> and in the stock market.
>
>
> The Act was veto proof because a lot of Senate Democrats voted for
> it. The election in 1996 ended with the Reps having a 55-45 edge over
> the Dems. http://tinyurl.com/4jaoyv
> The Republican edge in the House was 228 to 206. There were not
> enough Republicans to override a Presidential veto there either.
> For the non Americans a veto override requires a 2/3 majority in
> both the House and the Senate. Article 1, Section 7.
> http://tinyurl.com/nzrc The Senate has 100 members, the House 435.
>
> Dean
>
The bill could not be vetoed. That is a fact. That the Democrats
supported the bill and would not have supported a Clinton veto is not any
real news. The American public was hot for this tax adjustment and that
is the way of it. No competent politician is going to jump out in front
of a freight train. The bill was produced by the Gingrich Republicans
and it could _NOT_ be stopped by the Democrats. Those are the facts.
The Democrats did not create this bill and once created it was not
stoppable.

The same was the case in 1999 when the Republicans did Gramm-Leech-
Bliley. Had the Democrats been in control of the Congress this bill that
repealed Glass-Steagall would never had existed. And again, the bill was
veto proof.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: new hybrid batteries and overcharging
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d32953a33eed58b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:14 am
From: "john d hamilton"

Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
made by Sanyo).

They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline, in
that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.

The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries and
which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light going
off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.

Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:37 am
From: "philo"

"john d hamilton" <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gchq6h$a9m$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
> made by Sanyo).
>
> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline,
in
> that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
and
> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
going
> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

The biggest harm would be if they are getting hot,

Best to protect your investment and get the right charger...
if the charger you have does not turn off, I'm sure it will greatly shorten
the life of the batteries
>
>

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:43 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
> made by Sanyo).

> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the alkaline,
in
> that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.

> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
and
> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
going
> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.

> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

Who knows? HAVE YOU ASKED THE MANUFACTURER? No, of course not. That's too
much trouble, isn't it?

Good grief. Do you expect the people in this group to have detailed
technical information about about a new product?

By the way, I've not heard of NiMH cells suffering from memory effect.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:26 am
From: Whiskers

["Followup-To:" header set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk.]
On 2008-10-08, john d hamilton <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

[...]

> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries and
> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light going
> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

Uniross's European website makes no mention of "Hybrio" batteries, but the
US website does - describing them as NiMH type. That site also offers
suggested 'charge times' using a variety of (presumably Uniross-branded)
chargers. For AA size 2500mAh, the longest time (presumably using the
simplest charger) is 30 hours.

Maplin's web site is as un-informative as usual.

<http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/hybrio.htm> say that these batteries "can
be recharged in /any/ NiMH battery charger".

I think that if your charger has an automatic cut-off calibrated for NiMH
cells, you should be safe enough - but don't leave batteries 'on charge'
indefinitely. There may be more information in the packaging of the
batteries you have, or in the packaging of chargers being sold for use with
such batteries.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:44 am
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 8, 4:14 am, "john d hamilton" <blues...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
> made by Sanyo).
>
> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline, in
> that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries and
> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light going
> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

If the light doesn't go off, they probably are charging. You could put
a meter in series with the batteries and check the charging rate after
a given charging period. You could check the charging rate at the
beginning and estimate the needed charging time so you could remove
them. With a VOM, you could also check the top voltage of the cells
before and after a period of time to verify the charge level. For
something simple, when they are overcharging, the battery will begin
to get warm or even hot. I can tell you from experience that a battery
can explode while charging. Lithium cells are more prone to it though.
I have not had a NMH type explode.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07cb0b4aa66d73c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Gary Heston wrote:
>> In article <R6VGk.59696$XB4.21772@bignews9.bellsouth.net>,
>> E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Gary Heston wrote:
>> [ ... ]
>>>>> PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't
>>>>> see credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
>>
>>>> Check:
>>
>>>> www.paypalsucks.com
>>
>>>> www.paypalsucks.org
>>
>>>> www.aboutpaypal.org/paypal_sucks/
>>
>>>> www.paypalwarning.com
>>
>>>> Or just search for "paypal sucks".
>
> Now I see three of the pages direct us to National Merchant Bancard.
> The fourth won't open.
>
>>
>>> Does the lack of PayPal limit my access to Ebay products? What's
>>> the best way to pay?
>>
>> As of late October, the only way for US customers will be PayPal,
>> local pickup, or credit card direct to the seller. They're
>> disallowing the use of checks (personal, business, or certified) or
>> money orders. Too bad (for eBay) that checks and money orders are the only ways
>> to pay that are acceptable to me.
>>
>>
>> Gary
>>
> Are they disallowing mailed payments because the seller doesn't know
> if they will arrive?

Nope, so ebay gets the paypal commission.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:37 am
From: "Rod Speed"

E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Gary Heston wrote:
>> In article <37UGk.45094$rD2.44986@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
>> E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Ebay can be a convenient, frugal way to buy items that aren't
>>> locally available. Many sellers require buyers to use PayPal.
>>
>>> PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't
>>> see credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
>>
>> Check:
>>
>> www.paypalsucks.com
>>
>> www.paypalsucks.org
>>
>> www.aboutpaypal.org/paypal_sucks/
>>
>> www.paypalwarning.com
>>
>> Or just search for "paypal sucks".

> Does the lack of PayPal limit my access to Ebay products?

Corse it does.

> What's the best way to pay?

Paypal.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:32 am
From: clams_casino

E Z Peaces wrote:

> Gary Heston wrote:
>
>> In article <37UGk.45094$rD2.44986@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
>> E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Ebay can be a convenient, frugal way to buy items that aren't
>>> locally available. Many sellers require buyers to use PayPal.
>>
>>
>>> PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't
>>> see credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
>>
>>
>> Check:
>>
>> www.paypalsucks.com
>>
>> www.paypalsucks.org
>>
>> www.aboutpaypal.org/paypal_sucks/
>>
>> www.paypalwarning.com
>>
>> Or just search for "paypal sucks".
>>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>
> Does the lack of PayPal limit my access to Ebay products? What's the
> best way to pay?

Historically, about 90% of all ebay transactions have been paid via
Paypal. Soon, eBay will no longer allow for cash, check or money order
payment (except local pickups) where Paypal will be the only means to pay.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:35 am
From: clams_casino

Gary Heston wrote:

>In article <R6VGk.59696$XB4.21772@bignews9.bellsouth.net>,
>E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Gary Heston wrote:
>>
>>
> [ ... ]
>
>
>>>>PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't see
>>>>credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>>>Check:
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>> www.paypalsucks.com
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>> www.paypalsucks.org
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>> www.aboutpaypal.org/paypal_sucks/
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>> www.paypalwarning.com
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>Or just search for "paypal sucks".
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>Does the lack of PayPal limit my access to Ebay products? What's the
>>best way to pay?
>>
>>
>
>As of late October, the only way for US customers will be PayPal, local
>pickup, or credit card direct to the seller. They're disallowing the
>use of checks (personal, business, or certified) or money orders.
>
>Too bad (for eBay) that checks and money orders are the only ways
>to pay that are acceptable to me.
>
>
>Gary
>
>
>

Payment via checks & money order has always been a risky approach for
buyers. If the transaction goes sour, the buyer will always lose. If
payment is via credit card funded Paypal, the buyer has added protection
in that his credit card company will most always side with the buyer &
provide a full refund should Paypal not honor the refund..

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:49 am
From: ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:51:14 -0500, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:36:20 -0400, E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Ebay can be a convenient, frugal way to buy items that aren't locally
>>available. Many sellers require buyers to use PayPal.
>>
>>PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't see
>>credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
>
>Never used PayPal as a seller, so I can't speak for that.
>I've bought close to 200 items on eBay using PayPal over the past 5
>years or so and never had a problem. Used it for a 4 or 5 other
>merchants too.
>After the first 10 or so purchases using a CC with PayPal they
>required a bank account number and an easy verification process.
>Something about being "verified."
>I didn't care for that, but ultimately figured I would trust them, and
>make it easier to purchase. It's worked very well.
>Their default for purchases is from your bank account, so remember to
>change it each time to CC if that's what you prefer.
>Once you get over the bank account hurdle, you realize that paying
>through them keeps you from spreading your CC number all over the
>place. So, PayPal has worked for me.
>
>--Vic

i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
money order.

elise

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:36 am
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:49:32 GMT, ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)
wrote:

>
>i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
>do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
>account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
>paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
>money order.
>
Your choice, of course. But I think you would get better bids on your
items if you offered PayPal. I don't even bid on items that don't
offer PayPal payment, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: STREET JUSTICE: Lehman Brothers CEO gets punched out in company gym
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e5f4fe68f8ad8e3e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:04 am
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5060063/lehman-brothers-ceo-got-punched-in-the-face

Dick "It Wasn't My Fault" Fuld, the CEO of bankrupt investment bank
Lehman Brothers, (seen here being heckled after testifying on Capitol
Hill) was apparently punched in the face while working out in Lehman
gym on the Sunday following the bankruptcy, according to CNBC's Vicki
Ward.

Fuld testified before the House Oversight Committee yesterday, blaming
everyone but himself for Lehman's collapse, an attitude that prompted
Ward to confirm reports that he'd been punched in the face and to side
with the attacker:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Neck shackles and working in the hot sun or freezing rain for corrupt
CEOs!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/27b9316d8135a1d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:10 am
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

Sounds like a good idea to me. That, and liquidating their assets.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 6:42 am
From: hal@nospam.org

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 02:10:58 -0700 (PDT), ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:

>Sounds like a good idea to me. That, and liquidating their assets.

yes, sieze all their assets and turn it over to the treasury to pay
down the national debt, but I vote for the guillotine.

Hal

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.ciciaaa.cn Bape, bbc, 10 deep, ggg, lrg, ed, ca, antkul dodgen,
affliction, kidrobot, coogi hoodies Options
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/93f649f93f2ba5cc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:37 am
From: cicitrade01@yahoo.cn

www.ciciaaa.cn
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to find best 'every day' deal on motor oil?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05c628bc5eede98a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 3:00 am
From: OhioGuy

About a year and a half ago, I stocked up on quarts of 10W-30 engine
oil for 95c each. I finally ran out, and the best price I've been able
to find now is $2.25. This is despite the fact that crude oil prices
have dropped from $140 recently down to less than $90. I'm guessing it
may take more time for this to be reflected in the price of engine oil.

Can anyone suggest a chain that has a better every day price? I
would be quite happy to buy it a gallon at a time, rather than in
quarts, since I always need a gallon or more.

Thanks!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:37 am
From: Al Bundy

OhioGuy wrote:
> About a year and a half ago, I stocked up on quarts of 10W-30 engine
> oil for 95c each. I finally ran out, and the best price I've been able
> to find now is $2.25. This is despite the fact that crude oil prices
> have dropped from $140 recently down to less than $90. I'm guessing it
> may take more time for this to be reflected in the price of engine oil.
>
> Can anyone suggest a chain that has a better every day price? I
> would be quite happy to buy it a gallon at a time, rather than in
> quarts, since I always need a gallon or more.
>
> Thanks!

First, make sure whatever you buy meets the SAE rating for your
vehicle. This rating, such as SG or SH in the SAE ring printed on the
back designates the standard the oil meets. If it's equal or exceeds
the rating needed for your vehicle, you are good to go. I find the
best price on oil at WalMart or Meijer.

I see oil all the time at the dollar store that meets NO standard. It
says, "This oil is miscible with all SAE oils." That means that it
will mix with other oils. It probably would not be good for a
lawnmower. So think of the rating first. Extend the change interval a
bit, but buy oil that is the proper quality.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Depression 2: 2008 - 2012
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b260cd3d2eb87704?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:25 am
From: OhioGuy

My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time
now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
recession.

Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
admitting that we are in a recession. The Depression word seems to be
avoided at all costs. Why is that?

Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what
it was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and
other items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in
our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit
is drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate.
Stock markets are plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping
at dollar stores, and even the dollar stores are finally raising their
prices.

I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it
is going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
plus Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut
feeling at this point after watching everything that has been going on
over the past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what
the government does. We have reached the point where people are going
to tighten up the belts for a while.

A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time
to be realists. Time to face the facts.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:29 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

>... Inflation on food and other items has approached 40%.

To a rate of 5.37% in August? :-)

>... I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,

You might look up "inflation rate."

Nick

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:31 am
From: Al Bundy

OhioGuy wrote:
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time
> now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
> admitting that we are in a recession. The Depression word seems to be
> avoided at all costs. Why is that?
>
>
> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what
> it was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and
> other items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in
> our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit
> is drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate.
> Stock markets are plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping
> at dollar stores, and even the dollar stores are finally raising their
> prices.
>
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.
> I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it
> is going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
> business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics,
> plus Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut
> feeling at this point after watching everything that has been going on
> over the past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what
> the government does. We have reached the point where people are going
> to tighten up the belts for a while.
>
> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time
> to be realists. Time to face the facts.

When you took those economic courses, didn't they tell you that a
depression is a technical term based on measurable factors rather than
a journalist's opinion. Unemployment reached 25% in the Great
Depression and 11% in the 80's recession. We're not there yet, but it
could be coming. Please tell us the facts that we need to face.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 6:14 am
From: "Lou"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1@aioe.org...
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
> admitting that we are in a recession.

A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In spite
of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It seems
pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.

> The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?

Because it's frightening. And the world thought that it had learned how to
prevent a repeat of the Great Depression.

> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
> was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and other
> items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in our state
> it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit is drying up.
> People are losing their houses at an alarming rate. Stock markets are
> plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping at dollar stores,
> and even the dollar stores are finally raising their prices.
>
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.

During the Depression the unemployment rate in the US was around 25% and it
lasted for years. We're nowhere near that point as yet, and governments
around the world are bending over backwards to not repeat the mistakes that
followed the stock market crash of 1929 and brought on the Depression.

At the moment, stock prices, house prices, and unemployment are within the
worst they've been in my adult lifetime. Today's unemployment rate was
considered "full employment" back in the 1970's. During part of that
decade, there was a wage/price freeze that seemed to work for a while, but
lead to all kinds of disruptions in the economy. Maybe it's tough to get a
mortgage today, but back then interest rates were 17% or more, and that was
on top of a 12% general inflation rate. Fuel prices during that decade went
up 400% or more, and the government was telling us how fast we could drive
and what the furnace thermostat setting should be.

We lived though all of that, and so far this is nothing. Maybe history will
call this the beginning of another Depression, but it's by no means certain
at this point.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:25 am
From: clams_casino

Lou wrote:

>"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1@aioe.org...
>
>
>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
>>they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
>>recession.
>>
>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>admitting that we are in a recession.
>>
>>
>
>A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In spite
>of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It seems
>pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.
>
>
>

The tax refund this past spring temporarily interrupted the technical
reading for the recession (two consecutive down quarters), but it's
quite obvious that was not enough to offset the adverse effects of the
current financial meltdown. Current quarter is very likely back to a
decline and many project next quarter will be down as well.

>
>
>> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
>>was a few months ago.
>>

Unlike the previous recession where the tech stocks were the primary
losses, this year it's been 20-40% losses across the board.

>> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state
>>it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years.
>>

September state sales tax receipts here were reported this morning to be
down 18% vs. last year - similar declines were reported for July and
August as well.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is your MicroWave up to snuff?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56a52aafeb89d1a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:55 am
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "A 'Nam Veteran" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
>
> > The uneven nature of microwave cooking can make it a dangerous
> > way to prepare frozen raw foods. When not all of the food is
> > heated to a safe temperature, pockets of bacteria can survive
> > and sicken people.
>
> > Foods that contain raw chicken must be heated to 165 F,
> > according to federal guidelines.
>
> Is there anyone, anywhere who cooks meat in the microwave? Re-heating
> leftovers, sure, but "frozen raw foods"? In a microwave? Who does that?

Yes, I can cook a 25# turkey in a microwave. It browns and comes out
fine if you do it right, generally seven minutes per pound for
starters. You have to turn it frequently. You also have to have the
right equipment. I prefer a large box with no turntable. The waves are
mixed by a motorized stirrer beneath the unit so a turntable is
unnecessary. Turntables came about because of uneven stirring from
wind generated fans above the box. People became sold on seeing the
food turn and marketing took over from there. Most ovens have
turntables now. Even with a turn table, an oven can develop hot spots
that will almost set food on fire. Even a chocolate chip cookie can
smoke up the room with such ovens.

A good test for even cooking is to place a plastic container of
shallow water in the oven and observe the boiling action when it heats
up. The bubbles should be even over the entire surface. If all the
boiling takes place at one or two points, you are experiencing very
uneven cooking. You might not notice it while boiling a cup of water
for coffee, but a cake would be a mess and meat might not be fully
cooked.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:26 am
From: clams_casino

Al Bundy wrote:

>On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"A 'Nam Veteran" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>>The uneven nature of microwave cooking can make it a dangerous
>>>way to prepare frozen raw foods. When not all of the food is
>>>heated to a safe temperature, pockets of bacteria can survive
>>>and sicken people.
>>>
>>>
>>>Foods that contain raw chicken must be heated to 165 F,
>>>according to federal guidelines.
>>>
>>>
>>Is there anyone, anywhere who cooks meat in the microwave? Re-heating
>>leftovers, sure, but "frozen raw foods"? In a microwave? Who does that?
>>
>>
>
>Yes, I can cook a 25# turkey in a microwave. It browns and comes out
>fine if you do it right, generally seven minutes per pound for
>starters. You have to turn it frequently. You also have to have the
>right equipment. I prefer a large box with no turntable. The waves are
>mixed by a motorized stirrer beneath the unit so a turntable is
>unnecessary. Turntables came about because of uneven stirring from
>wind generated fans above the box. People became sold on seeing the
>food turn and marketing took over from there. Most ovens have
>turntables now. Even with a turn table, an oven can develop hot spots
>that will almost set food on fire. Even a chocolate chip cookie can
>smoke up the room with such ovens.
>
>A good test for even cooking is to place a plastic container of
>shallow water in the oven and observe the boiling action when it heats
>up. The bubbles should be even over the entire surface. If all the
>boiling takes place at one or two points, you are experiencing very
>uneven cooking. You might not notice it while boiling a cup of water
>for coffee, but a cake would be a mess and meat might not be fully
>cooked.
>
>

Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?

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Wednesday, October 8, 2008

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