Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics

Sunday, December 21, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Balck and Decker Power Monitor frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d61157f837e5fc08?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 9:41 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers

In article <cekqk49as1pn5dif3gr1gsikhukqg9qv75@4ax.com>,
me@privacy.net says...
> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >However this device will teach you how to save electricity and give you
> >instant feedback on your savings, so I guess it would be an excellent
> >training aid.

> Yeah I'm just wondering if anyone out there has tried
> one
>
> And if its worth the $100!

Are you referring to the whole-house meter thing?

If I were to concerned with micro-managing, I would buy something
like a "Kill-A-Watt" device:

http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-
CE.html

(Beware the line break in the URL.)

This place is selling them for US$15:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001&n
m_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Electronic+Gadgets-_-
P3+International-_-82715001

(Beware the line break in the URL.)

It measures one item at a time, so you can see the exact amount
used by your computer, or your television, or any individual item
that plugs into a wall outlet.

This can help you to figure out how much it costs to do a load of
laundry. Or the operating cost of an old refrigerator or CRT
monitor, to estimate the financial payback of buying a newer,
more efficient one.

A hot water cylinder is a major power-hog, but may be difficult
to measure. Mine doesn't have any place to insert a Kill-A-Watt
type meter for measurement over time. I think a clamp-on multi
meter can be used to see the consumption, although I could also
just turn everything else off, and see how fast the main meter
feeding my apartment runs. But that still doesn't tell how many
hours the water cylinder runs on an average day. OTOH, that
Black And Decker unit wouldn't work for that, either.

Anyway, as mentioned by another poster, these devices only give
you numbers. The savings come from physically doing other things
to actually reduce your usage.

Personally, I don't feel any great urge to buy any of these
devices. I have already made conservation efforts, with
weatherstripping, CFL bulbs, warm clothes, etc. My fridge (owned
by me) is relatively new, as is my water cylinder (in a rented
flat.)

I do still use a CRT monitor, but I got it for free, and have two
spares (also for free.) And I suppose I tend towards enjoying
power-gulping hot showers.

But I still qualify for my provider's "Low User" plan. Which is
another thing to look for. This is a way of balancing the flat
daily connection fee versus the per-KWH usage fee. So, if my
consumption is below a certain KWH per month threshold, this
billing plan costs less compared to the regular plan.
Availability depends on your location and provider.

Also, Kill-A-Watt type device would be more cost and hassle,
since I am on 240-volt, 50-hz. And, for some strange reason,
there is limited availability of that version.

--
Earn Money With Your Web Site
http://www.WebSponsorZone.Net
Web Site Advertising Directory

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 3:27 am
From: Tim Jackson

Coffee's For Closers wrote:
> In article <cekqk49as1pn5dif3gr1gsikhukqg9qv75@4ax.com>,
> me@privacy.net says...

> A hot water cylinder is a major power-hog, but may be difficult
> to measure. Mine doesn't have any place to insert a Kill-A-Watt
> type meter for measurement over time. I think a clamp-on multi
> meter can be used to see the consumption, although I could also
> just turn everything else off, and see how fast the main meter
> feeding my apartment runs. But that still doesn't tell how many
> hours the water cylinder runs on an average day. OTOH, that
> Black And Decker unit wouldn't work for that, either.
>
> Anyway, as mentioned by another poster, these devices only give
> you numbers. The savings come from physically doing other things
> to actually reduce your usage.
>
>
It's easier and cheaper to measure such things with an hour meter than a
power meter. The power consumption of (e.g.) a water heater when
switched on is pretty constant, it is usually written on a rating plate,
and you can check it any time with a multimeter. The big variable is
the on-time, and you can record this by simply connecting a time
recorder across the element terminals. LCD hour recorders cost about
£10 here in the UK, and only require wiring to existing terminals on the
heater or thermostat.

The same technique can also be applied to non-electrical devices such as
central heating burners, by connecting to the thermostat or control valve.

Tim Jackson

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 5:50 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <cekqk49as1pn5dif3gr1gsikhukqg9qv75@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >However this device will teach you how to save electricity and give you
> >instant feedback on your savings, so I guess it would be an excellent
> >training aid.
>
> Yeah I'm just wondering if anyone out there has tried
> one
>
> And if its worth the $100!

Probably only if your power usage is out of line with the power usage of
your neighbors. Do you think you can make back that $100 investment with
$100 or more of savings in your power utilization?

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 1:09 pm
From: harry

On Dec 21, 11:27 am, Tim Jackson <t...@tim-jackson.co.uk> wrote:
> Coffee's For Closers wrote:
> > In article <cekqk49as1pn5dif3gr1gsikhukqg9q...@4ax.com>,
> > m...@privacy.net says...
> > A hot water cylinder is a major power-hog, but may be difficult
> > to measure. Mine doesn't have any place to insert a Kill-A-Watt
> > type meter for measurement over time. I think a clamp-on multi
> > meter can be used to see the consumption, although I could also
> > just turn everything else off, and see how fast the main meter
> > feeding my apartment runs. But that still doesn't tell how many
> > hours the water cylinder runs on an average day. OTOH, that
> > Black And Decker unit wouldn't work for that, either.
>
> > Anyway, as mentioned by another poster, these devices only give
> > you numbers. The savings come from physically doing other things
> > to actually reduce your usage.
>
> It's easier and cheaper to measure such things with an hour meter than a
> power meter. The power consumption of (e.g.) a water heater when
> switched on is pretty constant, it is usually written on a rating plate,
> and you can check it any time with a multimeter. The big variable is
> the on-time, and you can record this by simply connecting a time
> recorder across the element terminals. LCD hour recorders cost about
> £10 here in the UK, and only require wiring to existing terminals on the
> heater or thermostat.
>
> The same technique can also be applied to non-electrical devices such as
> central heating burners, by connecting to the thermostat or control valve.
>
> Tim Jackson

Or indeed you could use a mains powered electric clock. Set to 12 o'
clock & you can count up to twelve hours for nothing. (Assuming you
have one to hand :-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Told Ya this was coming - Laid-off worker kills CEO" (Q: Are scumbag
employers of illegal aliens NEXT?)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/702044f4857f4f23?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 12:45 am
From: "Strider"

<mugglefuggle@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:7fe71894-0935-4c22-a171-2a99514fcf67@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Ha ha ha! There are 11 million "illegal aliens" in the USA. You
> propose to kick them all out? The Government is broke; it doesn't have
> the money to hire buses and trains. Nor does it have the wit and skill
> to find many of the 11 million.

Try waking up from your PC stupor and Googling "Operation Wetback". Back in
the '50s we had a president (Eisenhower) who took his oath of office
seriously. When informed of an illegal alien problem, he ordered the illegals
deported. It was only necessary to actually round up 10-20% of the illegals,
though -- the rest saw the handwriting on the wall and left on their own. The
same thing would happen today. In fact, many Mexicans are already heading
back home as the Yanqui gravy train dries up.

> And if it did, the US economy would shut down for good; crops would
> rot on the farms. A new Dust Bowl, a new Great Depression would ensue.

Most crops are harvested by machines these days, dolt. More machines would be
used if the illegals were sent packing. A machine to harvest citrus fruits
has already been invented. It languishes unused because growers find it
easier to import foreign slave labor. Without the slaves, they'd be forced to
use those machines. In Japan, hospitals have been using robot nurses for
several years rather than bringing in foreigners. The Japanese have this
strange idea that their country, heritage and culture belong to them, not
outsiders. Japan for the Japanese -- what a concept!

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 3:48 am
From: clams_casino

OhioGuy wrote:

> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have done
> this year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets and such.
>
> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over
> and over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started
> reusing the bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even plastic
> cereal bags from inside the boxes). So now we reuse our bread
> wrappers, and I've cut down on the purchase of sandwich bags by about
> 20%. It feels good to reuse something we were formerly throwing away
> without thinking about it, too.
>
> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have our
> laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the
> laptop plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer.
> We also have a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a bit
> of energy all the time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use once in
> a great while. I put all of these on the power strip, and now I
> switch it all off at night. No more power draw on the electric bill
> for a whole weekend if we are away.
>
> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?

Actually, I made a relatively big change that should hopefully pay off
well in the future (first read about it in a newspaper article - more
than justifying the cost of a newspaper for many years). I converted /
rolled over a significant amount of money from an IRA into a Roth
account. Granted, the taxes will be due on this year's tax filing, but
with any rebound in the market, all gains will not only be tax free, but
eventually (unless congress changes the law), there will be a
significant savings by reducing / minimizing taxes on social security.
In a few words, social security benefits may be taxable, depending on
one's total income, but withdrawals from a Roth are not considered as
income when determining taxable SS income (IRA and 401k withdrawals can
effect the taxing of social security).

Example - if someone receives 25K in SS, there should be minimal, if
any income taxes. If that same person was to supplement their SS with
IRA or 401k withdrawals, not only would they be paying taxes on the IRA
and 401K withdrawals, but they will likely be suddenly paying taxes on a
portion of the SS. However, If the withdrawals are via Roth, there
would still be minimal, if any taxes on the SS - a double advantage for
a ROTH vs. traditional IRA or 401k..

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98846,00.html

The trick is to convert IRA money each year only up to the point just
before hitting your next tax bracket. There is still time this year
and it can be done again in January.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 3:49 am
From: clams_casino

clams_casino wrote:

> OhioGuy wrote:
>
>> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have
>> done this year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets
>> and such.
>>
>> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over
>> and over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started
>> reusing the bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even
>> plastic cereal bags from inside the boxes). So now we reuse our
>> bread wrappers, and I've cut down on the purchase of sandwich bags by
>> about 20%. It feels good to reuse something we were formerly
>> throwing away without thinking about it, too.
>>
>> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have
>> our laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the
>> laptop plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer.
>> We also have a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a
>> bit of energy all the time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use
>> once in a great while. I put all of these on the power strip, and
>> now I switch it all off at night. No more power draw on the electric
>> bill for a whole weekend if we are away.
>>
>> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?
>
>
>
>
> Actually, I made a relatively big change that should hopefully pay off
> well in the future (first read about it in a newspaper article - more
> than justifying the cost of a newspaper for many years). I converted
> / rolled over a significant amount of money from an IRA into a Roth
> account. Granted, the taxes will be due on this year's tax filing,
> but with any rebound in the market, all gains will not only be tax
> free, but eventually (unless congress changes the law), there will be
> a significant savings by reducing / minimizing taxes on social
> security. In a few words, social security benefits may be taxable,
> depending on one's total income, but withdrawals from a Roth are not
> considered as income when determining taxable SS income (IRA and 401k
> withdrawals can effect the taxing of social security).
> Example - if someone receives 25K in SS, there should be minimal, if
> any income taxes. If that same person was to supplement their SS
> with IRA or 401k withdrawals, not only would they be paying taxes on
> the IRA and 401K withdrawals, but they will likely be suddenly paying
> taxes on a portion of the SS. However, If the withdrawals are via
> Roth, there would still be minimal, if any taxes on the SS - a double
> advantage for a ROTH vs. traditional IRA or 401k..
>
>
>
> The trick is to convert IRA money each year only up to the point just
> before hitting your next tax bracket. There is still time this year
> and it can be done again in January.
> .

Opps - wrong reference provided -
http://www.fairmark.com/rothira/socsec.htm

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 4:31 am
From: haranjoe@lycos.com

"Gee, where do you live that you run a woodstove all year? Saving
money on hot water is a great idea as it can be 1/3 of your energy
budget-"

Hi - Vermont, small woodstove is in the cellar. It is an old cast iron
box stove, bored 2 holes in the back with a grinding attachment on the
drill, used 1/4" refrig. copper coil and hooked it up to the water
heater . 1 hour of a not very hot fire will heat up 5 gallons, enough
for the 2 of us. Only one glitch. One end of the copper goes in the
top and one in the bottom of the tank. If the thermal syphon starts
the right was, with hot water going in the bottom, the tank gets full
of uniformly hot water. If it starts flowing the hot water into the
top of the tank, there will be a bunch of REALLY hot water at the top
of the tank and it doesn't last as long. Can't figure it out, it must
be mixing in the tank in either case...

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 11:24 am
From: JonL

The Real Bev wrote:
> Evelyn Leeper wrote:
>
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>> Did that with no upfront charge because my Nokia N95 cellphone
>>> has voip built in and I make the calls over wifi to my DSL.
>>
>> Just try telling that to someone over sixty years old and see the look
>> on their faces.
>
> Read my lips: Try not to be an asshole.
>
>> (Okay, not everyone in that age range.
>
> Gee thanks.
>
>> But when I picture my father trying to make sense of that sentence, my
>> mind boggles.)
>
> Did you set up a computer for him? Sometimes the "elderly" need to be
> forced. Our parents couldn't figure out why they needed a computer so
> we gave them one. Not having to deal out those damn cards for solitaire
> turns out to be a good enough reason, and it teaches mouse skills.
>

LOL!!! Good Wun!!

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 6:06 pm
From: "Daniel T."

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have done
> this year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets and
> such.
>
> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over
> and over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started
> reusing the bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even
> plastic cereal bags from inside the boxes). So now we reuse our
> bread wrappers, and I've cut down on the purchase of sandwich bags
> by about 20%. It feels good to reuse something we were formerly
> throwing away without thinking about it, too.
>
> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have our
> laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the
> laptop plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer.
> We also have a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a
> bit of energy all the time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use
> once in a great while. I put all of these on the power strip, and
> now I switch it all off at night. No more power draw on the electric
> bill for a whole weekend if we are away.
>
> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?

We put up a cloths line and stopped using the dryer.

We started car pooling to work and now turn off our cars at stop lights.

My wife carries her bike on the back of the car now, so she can park
where it's free and bike the rest of the way to work. (The car pooling
works by her driving me to work, which is between home and her work.)

Those of the family going to college started checking out their books
from the library instead of buying them.

Lastly, we planed a "recycle christmas" all presents purchased had to be
used (thrift store stuff for example.)

--
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CNN: Half-ton woman indicted in slaying of nephew
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/935cc02fc86d96ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 5:38 am
From: "Macuser"

Prison food will do her some good. Just saying.

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lower Wages for American Workers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/41617a060889d131?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 5:58 am
From: "Macuser"

The Bush "plan" was very self-dealing, giving out jobs and favors to the
connected and loyal to the franchise. "Brownie," a horse trader put in
charge of FEMA, is an example of this. 30 days left of this, and thank god
almighty we will be free at last from the Bushes.

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

>>How many jobs were created just to look for those lost Los Alamos hard
>>drives alone??? And the No Bid contract he gave Haliburton must have
>>generated lots of jobs, too.
>>
>>
>
> That was the whole Bush economic plan.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home heating oil price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 7:16 am
From: George

clams_casino wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> Neon John wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:25:01 -0800 (PST), tmclone@searchmachine.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Whatever. I pay $4800 taxes on a house assessed at $120k. I pay $6000
>>>> income taxes on an income of $20k. It all seems obscenely high to me.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holy sh*t! My 1000 sq ft cabin is appraised at $60,000 which is far
>>> too high
>>> but this is a fishing resort. Anwhere else it would run in the $35
>>> to $40k
>>> range. Anyway, my property tax last year was $947.40. No state
>>> income tax.
>>>
>>> I don't see how you exist in NY, much less live. I'm disabled (but not
>>> "drawing") and my combined income this year will be under $10k, yet I
>>> can live
>>> like a king. Well, if not a king, at least like I want to.
>>>
>>> Here's a table of TN property taxes by county and city. Something to
>>> cry over
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> http://www.comptroller1.state.tn.us/PAnew/LR.asp?W=07
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I lived in TN - the 9.75% sales tax on most everything essentially
>> made up for an income tax, although the property taxes were agreeably
>> reasonable, assuming one was not concerned about having children in a
>> typical TN school system.
>>
>> On the other hand, the property taxes were artificially low due to all
>> the added fees for garbage pickup, library usage, no fire department,
>> etc. I was even paying a double water bill simply because I was in
>> the county, plus fire insurance was fairly high due to not having a
>> fire department. Yes, the property taxes are relatively low in TN,
>> but certainly not as low as they might first appear.
>
>
>
> There's something odd about the rates in that table. They do not appear
> to be a typical mil rate (dollars per $1k assessment) where a
> significant adjustment seems to be required compared with other areas..
> For example, my home was accessed at $258k and taxed at $1632 or $6.33/
> $1000, yet the table is showing a county tax rate of only 2.53 (also
> as shown on my tax bill).
>
> Oddly, they claimed a tax rate of 25% of the appraised value. The
> 2.53 rate appears to be per $100, at 25% of the appraised value ( 2.53
> x 2580 x 0.25 = $1632) - NOT a mil rate.
>
> Had I lived within the city limits with a significantly improved school
> system, fire department, trash pickup, libraries, lower home insurance,
> 1/2 water bill, etc the tax would have been $3116 for a 12.1 mil rate,
> but the table only shows 4.83 (4.83 x 2580 x 0.25 = $3116). A 12 mil
> rate on full value is not that uncommon around the country.
>
>
We pay 11.8 mils on full value just for the public schools tax.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 7:28 am
From: clams_casino

George wrote:

>>
>>
>>
> We pay 11.8 mils on full value just for the public schools tax.

TN doesn't typically get too concerned about public schools.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to get replacement cables for Weider home Gym?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/070e8637d47fd3b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 9:12 am
From: "Roger Shoaf"

See Mc Master Carr at: http://www.mcmaster.com/ page 1377

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:giiql8$2k77$1@news.ett.com.ua...
> I have a Weider System 3 (15922) Cross Trainer home Gym that is
> having a problem. The system uses cheap plastic pulleys, so they coated
> the metal cables with plastic so that they wouldn't wear the pulleys.
>
> The trouble is, the plastic coating is coming off all the cables,
> which makes it very difficult to do the exercises. The plastic coming
> off and bulging out makes the resistance variable, and sometimes
> downright impossible.
>
> I tried searches online for replacement parts, and found that I could
> easily spend $60 just replacing one cable with an official part. That
> is about what I paid for the whole thing.
>
> My Dad suggested getting "aircraft cable", whatever that is. I'm
> guessing it is a high quality metal cable you can get in a bulk roll.
> If I could get something like that and cut it to length, I believe I
> could easily replace what is on here.
>
> The trouble is, where do you get the stuff? Anyone have an idea
> where to get a good deal online for rolls of metal cable? They didn't
> have any at my local hardware store. Thanks!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How any dogma is fatal to its host...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d155ce5121b30773?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 10:47 am
From: phil scott

I will not mention nor elaborate on any specific examples out of
respect for Life generally and the individuals involved.

The mechanism are that unrecognized bogus notions, just as lies do,
produce cognitive dissonance between actuality across all levels of
existence, the seen, unseen..and even the yet to be discovered... and
the bogus notions, and various often vicious dogma. why?

duhhh... congnitive dissonance fragmants a persons entirety.. his or
her brain and spirit goes into internal conflict.. turmoil. it IS
fatal.. It is not just uncomfortable, it is fatal by well known and
studied mechanisms.

bogus notions are bogus... the world is enterly chock full of them...
wide ranges of pervasive bogus notions affection virtually all of
us... Various political, economic and social bogus notions... wide
swaths of what we call education, many that cause us to work
ourselves to death or that ruin the joy of life (causing the body to
generate self destructive chemistry... causing a wide range of
disease with stress recognized as causative factors. ).

***
Cults
I am going to surprise a few people here.

Cults might be a net benefit in some aspects, especially as they
present an altenative bogus 'truth' that exposes larger cultural
insanity. To that extent a cult, or even a criminal cult affords
relief from wide ranges of any cultures bogus notions and their
destructive effects.

The more radical and insane the cult the greater it diverges from the
ambient mess.. the more beneficial such cult is in that specific
function.

***

However to be effective in this way it must also be extreme... it
must present a sure fire dogma.. maximizing the congnitive dissonance,
it cannot be as hubbard said mamby pamby.. it must be hard core and
certain. in its error it creates utter ruin. ...

as we have seen with Scientology, no shortage of those dying young..
many by suicide as a result... the ultimate in cognitive dissonance...
and in the end destroying itself. Bogus notions produce self
destructive behaviors... this is also widely documented and a well
known side effects among any cults members.

**
a sure fire solution... dont believe anything, take a skeptical but
not negative view of all that you understand as factual, most
especially that which you hold the dearest... and especially that
which you are prepaired to defend.

waste all of that and you will be free of the cultural and other
dogma.

With that freedom, the actuality of existence simply ... errr
exists. Noticing such actuality is quite a relief.

Phil scott

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 2:02 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 21, 1:47 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> I will not mention nor elaborate on any specific examples out of
> respect for Life generally and the individuals involved.
>
> The mechanism are that unrecognized bogus notions, just as lies do,
> produce cognitive dissonance between actuality across all levels of
> existence, the seen, unseen..and even the yet to be discovered... and
> the bogus notions, and various often vicious dogma. why?
>
> duhhh... congnitive dissonance fragmants a persons entirety.. his or
> her brain and spirit goes into internal conflict.. turmoil. it IS
> fatal.. It is not just uncomfortable, it is fatal by well known and
> studied mechanisms.
>
> bogus notions are bogus... the world is enterly chock full of them...
> wide ranges of pervasive bogus notions affection virtually all of
> us... Various political, economic and social bogus notions... wide
> swaths of what we call education, many that cause us to work
> ourselves to death or that ruin the joy of life (causing the body to
> generate self destructive chemistry... causing a wide range of
> disease with stress recognized as causative factors. ).
>
> ***
> Cults
> I am going to surprise a few people here.
>
> Cults might be a net benefit in some aspects, especially as they
> present an altenative bogus 'truth' that exposes larger cultural
> insanity. To that extent a cult, or even a criminal cult affords
> relief from wide ranges of any cultures bogus notions and their
> destructive effects.
>
> The more radical and insane the cult the greater it diverges from the
> ambient mess.. the more beneficial such cult is in that specific
> function.
>
> ***
>
> However to be effective in this way it must also be extreme... it
> must present a sure fire dogma.. maximizing the congnitive dissonance,
> it cannot be as hubbard said mamby pamby.. it must be hard core and
> certain. in its error it creates utter ruin. ...
>
> as we have seen with Scientology, no shortage of those dying young..
> many by suicide as a result... the ultimate in cognitive dissonance...
> and in the end destroying itself. Bogus notions produce self
> destructive behaviors... this is also widely documented and a well
> known side effects among any cults members.
>
> **
> a sure fire solution... dont believe anything, take a skeptical but
> not negative view of all that you understand as factual, most
> especially that which you hold the dearest... and especially that
> which you are prepaired to defend.
>
> waste all of that and you will be free of the cultural and other
> dogma.
>
> With that freedom, the actuality of existence simply ... errr
> exists. Noticing such actuality is quite a relief.
>
> Phil scott

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being
very wasteful. How true that is."
Dan Quale

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Locksmith Los Angeles (877) 364-5264 Autos Unlocked Keys Made for
Foreign and Domestic Trucks and Cars
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e87efe27cfcdf066?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 1:14 pm
From: linkswanted

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 1:53 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article
<a9fb6909-d125-44c8-9d87-988f3e508617@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
linkswanted <moving@mover4u.com> wrote:
> Locksmith Security Services, Los Angeles Safe & Vault Sales and
> Installation For All Your Home & Business Needs Doors installation
> wood, metal, Kalamein, and fire rated wood doors for both heavyweight
> commercial and standard residential needs.

Great...I locked my keys in my car here in Minneapolis. How
soon can you get here to open my car?

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Purchase All Available US Autos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 1:48 pm
From: "'nam vet."

In article <49479c68$0$31215$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com>,
Ken <me@privacy.net.invalid> wrote:

> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
>
> > Better that than a Ford Fusion made in Mexico. Talk about
> > traitorous. The least these companies can do is to manufacture
> > products in the same country that they're being sold in.
> >
> > What we really need to do is to be sure to buy vehicles
> > _manufactured_ in the U.S., regardless of where the company's
> > headquarters is located. We wouldn't want Australians or
> > Englishmen to stop buying Ford products manufactured in their
> > own countries.
> >
> > Thank goodness that so many European and Asian manufacturers
> > decided to set up factories in the U.S.. We need these good
> > paying manufacturing jobs.
>
> Agreed 101%

How about Replicars built in North Hollywood. ?
on VW pans.

http://www.jps-motorsports.com/Gallery/source/blkoutlaw.html
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 2:00 pm
From: "Macuser"

Vote for McCain, not a smart guy. Civilization is in its death throes.

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .99 store complaint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/344e32ee920ae3a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 2:23 pm
From: "Macuser"

Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL items
for this amount? There are several near me, and all of them are trying to
pry more out of the customers by raising prices about that threshold.
Certain items, like cheap little power strips have doubled in price. I buy
less now than ever. How about you?

--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 3:08 pm
From: Dave Garland

Macuser wrote:
> Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL
> items for this amount?

No. Around here, the "Dollar Tree" chain sometimes sells items at
2/$1 or even 4/$1. I haven't seen anything there for more than a buck.

"Family Dollar", a lot of items at multiples of a dollar. The
independent stores mostly have both dollar items and items that cost more.

I suppose it's the same problem "dime stores" had back in my
childhood. Inflation creeps up on you.

Dave

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 3:17 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

Dave Garland wrote:
> Macuser wrote:
>> Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL
>> items for this amount?
>
> No. Around here, the "Dollar Tree" chain sometimes sells items at
> 2/$1 or even 4/$1. I haven't seen anything there for more than a buck.

Same here. They are the most consistent in pricing, and usually have
the best selection. (Which is not to say that there won't be some items
one can find at other dollar stores that they don't carry.)

> "Family Dollar", a lot of items at multiples of a dollar. The
> independent stores mostly have both dollar items and items that cost more.

I don't think Family Dollar was *ever* a true "dollar store".

> I suppose it's the same problem "dime stores" had back in my
> childhood. Inflation creeps up on you.

True, but when almost everything in a "dollar store" is more than a
dollar, it does seem like deceptive advertising.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 21 2008 5:16 pm
From: Jamie

On Dec 21, 3:08 pm, Dave Garland <dave.garl...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> Macuser wrote:
> > Does anybody have a .99 or $1.00 store that actually still sells ALL
> > items for this amount?
>
> No. Around here, the "Dollar Tree" chain sometimes sells items at
> 2/$1 or even 4/$1. I haven't seen anything there for more than a buck.
I worked there and still go there. Nothing has been increased as far
as I've seen.
>
> "Family Dollar", a lot of items at multiples of a dollar. The
> independent stores mostly have both dollar items and items that cost more.
I don't have a Family Dollar store near me. Perhaps these aren't in
California?
>
> I suppose it's the same problem "dime stores" had back in my
> childhood. Inflation creeps up on you.
Dollar or 99-cent stores the modern, price-infaltion based equivalents
of "five and dimes."

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