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TOPIC: WHAT TO DO IN CASE OF STUCK GAS PEDAL Re: Motorists KILLED due to floor
mat jamming up gas pedal, including an odfficer and his family
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/beda867f55c92986?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 7 2009 10:31 pm
From: zeez
enough wrote:
> If this happens to you, the best thing to do is throw the car in
> NEUTRAL, so you keep your power brakes and steering, failing that,
> turn off the ignition (note, the Lexus with push button Start requires
> you to hold down the button for a few seconds to shut off the engine)
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== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 7:05 am
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 7, 7:54 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 2:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 7, 11:46 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
>>>>>>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
>>>>>>>> tt
>>>>>>> Our money? As opposed to what? Their money? Too much us vs them, not
>>>>>>> enough talk about Americans.
>>>>>> I'm not my brother's keeper. Keep your collectivist bullshit to yourself.
>>>>> Funny you should misquote the Bible, "I'm not brother's keeper". The
>>>>> person who said that was Cain when asked about Abel shortly after
>>>>> murdering him.
>>>> No misquote. The term has come to mean, over time, that people are
>>>> responsible for the welfare of others, those "others" usually being
>>>> people who *refuse* to take responsibility for themselves.
>>>>> Collectivist bullshit?
>>>> Yes, collectivist bullshit, asshole. No one has any "right" to my
>>>> effort. I *choose* voluntarily to incur obligations to others - my wife
>>>> and child, others I care about - and they then have a reasonable
>>>> expectation that I will meet those obligations. When you and other
>>>> leftist assholes start preaching to me about what I owe people to whom I
>>>> have no connection other than an accident of geography, I tell you to
>>>> fuck off, and you *do* fuck off.
>>>>> Is that to do with united as in United States?
>>>>> Was it collectivists who wiped out smallpox? Made the US a nearly 100%
>>>>> literate society? I don't understand this collectivist insult. Do you
>>>>> mean people working together to solve problems? Then count me in.
>>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
>>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
>>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
>>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
>>>> my problem.
>>>>> You're right, I don't know what "lump of labor" means, but I'm
>>>>> reading about it now and I'm sure it will take several days to have it
>>>>> fully sink in.
>>>> It likely never will.
>>>>> What I do know is the difference between right and
>>>>> wrong.
>>>> No, you very clearly do not. If you think it's "right" that I can be
>>>> compelled to provide for someone else about whom I don't care, then you
>>>> have no real understanding of right and wrong: *you* are morally wrong
>>>> if you believe that.
>>> the founders were collectivists,
>> Absolutely they were not.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
>
> The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory
> statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that
...does not contain the word "collectivism", nor does it state any
collective purpose.
I'm glad we got /that/ settled.
== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 7:31 am
From: Nickname unavailable
On Oct 7, 10:16 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 3:17 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> >>> On Oct 7, 12:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
> >>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
> >>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
> >>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
> >>>> my problem.
> >>> "That's false"? How did you get to decide?
> >> Sorry, pal - that's just how it is. Individuals are, and should be,
> >> paramount. Deal with it.
>
> > according to your own personal opinion, correct, but in america, its
> > we the people in order to form a more perfect union:)
>
> A union of individual states, not a collective.
>
yawn,
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings
of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish
this Constitution for the United States of America.
> >>> "Only individuals have rights..." If only that were true.
> >>> Corporations have the right to make donations. Corporations have this
> >>> right and that. Churches have the right to do X, Governments also have
> >>> rights.
> >> A corporation is a legal person.
>
> > a corporation is a collective,
>
> A corporation is not a collective. There are shareholders of a
> corporation, and those shareholders are the ones who have the corporate
> interest. People who work for the corporation have their interests.
> Ideally, the interests of the shareholders and the interests of the
> employees are aligned. That does not make them a "collective" interest;
> it makes them mutually held individual interests.
>
yawn,
you just gave a definition of a collective, they all pull together
for the same reason, to make money.
>
>
> >>> "... and those rights do not include a right to the productive effort
> >>> of others." You think?
> >> No, I *KNOW* for certain.
>
> > the government has given permission for the collectives known as
> > corporations to exist in the first place.
>
> No, not the government.
>
then what, santa claus. corporate collectives are chartered by
governments.
>
>
> >>> So, I have no right to medicines developed with
> >>> grants from governments.
> >> Absolutely none. If you want it, you pay for it.
>
> > this is also known in the free market as, free market, self
> > responsible, self reliant, rugged individuals, as they pull themselves
> > up by the bootstraps of their wealthy parents, with tax payer monies.
> > you will notice he never quibbled over the subsidy you and i provide,
>
> End the subsidy.
>
snicker, sure you will:)
> > and he never quibbles over the profit from said subsidy either:)
>
> The profit doesn't come from the subsidy.
>
>
yes i know, profits drops from the sky, not a result of a subsidy.
>
> >> I believe the government should not fund drug research in the first place.
>
> > well, honesty, even if its stupid, is refreshing.
>
> It's not stupid.
>
yes you are.
> >>> I don't have the right to cheap food based
> >>> mainly on the effecient highway systems.
> >> You don't have any "right" to food, period. If you want food, earn the
> >> money to pay for some, or beg for it. Understand that if your begging
> >> doesn't result in any food or money being given to you, you'll go
> >> hungry. That's just how it is, and it is good.
>
> > that is the useless eaters theory that hitler and mussolini employed,
>
> Logical fallacy to try to smear me by linking my view to theirs.
>
if it walks like a duck. or you are judged by the company you keep.
hey, i am not the one sprouting psychopathic stuff, its you.
> >>> I don't have the right to
> >>> clean air and water?
> >> No. You don't have *any* right to any material good or service.
>
> > that is not what the constitution says.
>
> It is.
>
where does it say that? however it says this:)
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
> > it says to promote and
> > provide for the general welfare of americans.
>
> That doesn't mean material goods or services.
>
sure it does, if you are starving, and homeless, then government has
to provide for your general welfare:)
> >>> What are you saying?
> >> Just what I said above: you have no rights to any goods or services.
>
> > what he is saying is, that he is a fascist.
>
> No. It is not "fascism" to say that people don't have a right to goods
> or services. They *don't* have any such right.
>
by embracing the useless eater theory, you are just digging your hole
ever deeper.
> "Fascism" is just a swearword coming from leftists.
>
hey, its not a smear with you, its a fact.
> >>> "If some Detroit deadbeat..." There you go, dehumanizing a person to
> >>> make it easier.
> >> No, there's no dehumanization at all. Some people just are deadbeats.
> >> I don't care about them. More to the point, I do not *owe* them any
> >> consideration regarding their material welfare. If they're hungry,
> >> that's too bad for them.
>
> > yea, let the humans die.
>
> Everyone dies.
>
dig that hole ever deeper.
> > It's not my concern, nor should it be...unless
> >> I *choose* to make it my concern. No one else - not you, not 10,000
> >> people like you - has the moral authority to tell me it "ought" to be my
> >> concern. I'll concern myself with it only if I want to do so. Everyone
> >> else can fuck off, you most of all.
>
> > the government made up of we the people not only has the moral
> > authority,
>
> No, no one has the moral authority to tell me what my concerns are or
> should be.
>
then you are unamerican.
>
>
> >>> "... doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
> >>> my problem." Ok, let us say that the Xtian premise,
> >> No, allow *me*: it's bullshit.
>
> > no allow me, we beat you in WWII.
>
> No.
>
never give up the hope for a new fuehrer hey:)
> >>> Continuing: "... doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit,
> >>> that's not my problem." First it does become your problem when crime
> >>> increases,
> >> Lock him up. If he busts into my house in the middle of the night, I'll
> >> shoot him dead.
>
> > so, the true conservative comes out, all poor people are criminals.
>
> Not what I said.
>
sure it was. you implied that all poor people wanted to bust into
your house. and you would like to shoot them, DEAD.
> >>> when diseases spread and revolution smolders.
> >> Go ahead and keep jerking off with your collectivist crap if it makes
> >> you feel better. It won't change the fact that the deadbeat's welfare
> >> is not my concern. It also doesn't change the fact that collectivists
> >> like you simply don't have the moral power to make it my concern.
> >> You're pissing in the ocean, pal.
>
> > you can lack empathy,
>
> I have plenty of empathy. I get to decide on when it's appropriate to
> feel it.
psychopaths think they are sane.
== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 7:34 am
From: Nickname unavailable
On Oct 7, 10:20 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 7:24 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> >>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
> >>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
> >>>> tt
> >>> We give some children a crappy education and then wonder as they act
> >>> ignorant.
> >> "crappy education" -- that's deliberate "liberal" education policy.
>
> > as we see today, there are many hundreds of thousands, if not
> > millions of students who were in for profit private schools
>
> False. Very few private schools were or are for profit.
>
> You're just a liar.
>
then what are they?
> >>> We exclude some people from opportunities
> >> No.
>
> > yes.
>
> No.
>
yes.
> >>> We outsource living wage jobs and wonder why people are so lazy.
> >> No one has a "right" to a job at a particular wage.
>
> > that is not true, we have a minimum wage
>
> You don't have a right to a job in the first place, and not at whatever
> wage you might wish.
>
that is a childish statement.
> >>> We flood certain neighborhoods with cheap drink and drugs
> >> No. People in those neighborhoods are buying what they want. Do you
> >> presume to tell them what to eat and drink, too? You want to run
> >> everything else in their lives...
>
> > as we have seem today, collectives flooded america with crappy food
>
> No.
>
sure they did. teddy roosevelt was forced to act against them.
> >>> We dump all of society problems in prisons
> >> No. Drug offenders shouldn't be there. Everyone else in prison belongs
> >> there.
>
> > you are sure of that blanket statement correct?
>
> Yes.
hmmm, just recently it was found out that many people on death row in
illinois were innocent and black. see you really do hate your fellow
man, just as hitler hated his fellow man.
== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 7:44 am
From: Nickname unavailable
On Oct 7, 10:23 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 6:43 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
> > dog.com> wrote:
> >> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> >>> On Oct 7, 2:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> >>>>> On Oct 7, 11:46 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
> >>>>>>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
> >>>>>>>> tt
> >>>>>>> Our money? As opposed to what? Their money? Too much us vs them, not
> >>>>>>> enough talk about Americans.
> >>>>>> I'm not my brother's keeper. Keep your collectivist bullshit to yourself.
> >>>>> Funny you should misquote the Bible, "I'm not brother's keeper". The
> >>>>> person who said that was Cain when asked about Abel shortly after
> >>>>> murdering him.
> >>>> No misquote. The term has come to mean, over time, that people are
> >>>> responsible for the welfare of others, those "others" usually being
> >>>> people who *refuse* to take responsibility for themselves.
> >>>>> Collectivist bullshit?
> >>>> Yes, collectivist bullshit, asshole. No one has any "right" to my
> >>>> effort. I *choose* voluntarily to incur obligations to others - my wife
> >>>> and child, others I care about - and they then have a reasonable
> >>>> expectation that I will meet those obligations. When you and other
> >>>> leftist assholes start preaching to me about what I owe people to whom I
> >>>> have no connection other than an accident of geography, I tell you to
> >>>> fuck off, and you *do* fuck off.
> >>>>> Is that to do with united as in United States?
> >>>>> Was it collectivists who wiped out smallpox? Made the US a nearly 100%
> >>>>> literate society? I don't understand this collectivist insult. Do you
> >>>>> mean people working together to solve problems? Then count me in.
> >>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
> >>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
> >>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
> >>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
> >>>> my problem.
> >>>>> You're right, I don't know what "lump of labor" means, but I'm
> >>>>> reading about it now and I'm sure it will take several days to have it
> >>>>> fully sink in.
> >>>> It likely never will.
> >>>>> What I do know is the difference between right and
> >>>>> wrong.
> >>>> No, you very clearly do not. If you think it's "right" that I can be
> >>>> compelled to provide for someone else about whom I don't care, then you
> >>>> have no real understanding of right and wrong: *you* are morally wrong
> >>>> if you believe that.
> >>> the founders were collectivists, anyone with a pulse who can read,
> >>> knows the constitution is a collectivist document.
> >> You been eating moldy bread.....?
>
> > we have been thru this before.
>
> You got it wrong then, too.
>
i am sure that you think pigs can fly, but we the people:)
> > read the declaration, preamble, and
> > the constitution. the bill of rights gives rights
>
> No, it does not. It acknowledges rights that individual persons hold.
>
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings
of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish
this Constitution for the United States of America.
> > to the people, not
> > person, people.
>
> Individual persons.
>
its says we the people, not we the persons, we the individuals, its
say we the people.
> >> The constitution and the Bill of Rights point out individual rights of
> >> the people.
>
> > correct, people, not person, but people.
>
> Individual persons. Each individual person holds the rights.
>
it says the people, people is plural, it does not say individual, it
means people, collectively:)
> > but the bill of rights is
> > not the complete constitution, its but a part of it, and part of it
> > says to promote, and provide for the general welfare of the people. as
> > well as the right to regulate the economy.
>
missed one hey, gee, i wonder why:)
> >> Each person has a right to free speech, otherwise it would be only when
> >> we all speak at once and in harmony?
>
> > that is a collective right,
>
> It is not.
>
it is so. all americans have it. show me where some americans can
have it in the constitution, and others cannot. where does it say
that. i am waiting. i am also waiting for you to tell me if the
monetary base is shrinking, or exploding right now:)
> >> Were they really that kind of collectivist, why have 13 colonies and
> >> not just the one great Federal government? Who needs individual States
> >> when we can just be one collective.
>
> > i have shown you the supremacy clause more than once. states have
> > rights,
>
> States do not have rights.
correct, limited, but they do, till that right clashs with federal
law, regulation, or treaty.
States have powers.
correct, limited, but they do, till that right clashs with federal
law, regulation, or treaty.
People
gotcha:)
- individual
> persons - have rights.
as said in the preamble and bill of rights, people, as a collective:)
== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 7:46 am
From: Nickname unavailable
On Oct 8, 9:05 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 7:54 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> >>> On Oct 7, 2:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> >>>>> On Oct 7, 11:46 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
> >>>>>>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
> >>>>>>>> tt
> >>>>>>> Our money? As opposed to what? Their money? Too much us vs them, not
> >>>>>>> enough talk about Americans.
> >>>>>> I'm not my brother's keeper. Keep your collectivist bullshit to yourself.
> >>>>> Funny you should misquote the Bible, "I'm not brother's keeper". The
> >>>>> person who said that was Cain when asked about Abel shortly after
> >>>>> murdering him.
> >>>> No misquote. The term has come to mean, over time, that people are
> >>>> responsible for the welfare of others, those "others" usually being
> >>>> people who *refuse* to take responsibility for themselves.
> >>>>> Collectivist bullshit?
> >>>> Yes, collectivist bullshit, asshole. No one has any "right" to my
> >>>> effort. I *choose* voluntarily to incur obligations to others - my wife
> >>>> and child, others I care about - and they then have a reasonable
> >>>> expectation that I will meet those obligations. When you and other
> >>>> leftist assholes start preaching to me about what I owe people to whom I
> >>>> have no connection other than an accident of geography, I tell you to
> >>>> fuck off, and you *do* fuck off.
> >>>>> Is that to do with united as in United States?
> >>>>> Was it collectivists who wiped out smallpox? Made the US a nearly 100%
> >>>>> literate society? I don't understand this collectivist insult. Do you
> >>>>> mean people working together to solve problems? Then count me in.
> >>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
> >>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
> >>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
> >>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
> >>>> my problem.
> >>>>> You're right, I don't know what "lump of labor" means, but I'm
> >>>>> reading about it now and I'm sure it will take several days to have it
> >>>>> fully sink in.
> >>>> It likely never will.
> >>>>> What I do know is the difference between right and
> >>>>> wrong.
> >>>> No, you very clearly do not. If you think it's "right" that I can be
> >>>> compelled to provide for someone else about whom I don't care, then you
> >>>> have no real understanding of right and wrong: *you* are morally wrong
> >>>> if you believe that.
> >>> the founders were collectivists,
> >> Absolutely they were not.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
>
> > The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory
> > statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that
>
> ...does not contain the word "collectivism", nor does it state any
> collective purpose.
>
> I'm glad we got /that/ settled.
we did not, only in your LITTLE MIND, we the people, is a collective
force.
== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 11:03 am
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 7, 10:16 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 3:17 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 7, 12:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
>>>>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
>>>>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
>>>>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
>>>>>> my problem.
>>>>> "That's false"? How did you get to decide?
>>>> Sorry, pal - that's just how it is. Individuals are, and should be,
>>>> paramount. Deal with it.
>>> according to your own personal opinion, correct, but in america, its
>>> we the people in order to form a more perfect union:)
>> A union of individual states, not a collective.
>>
>
>
> yawn,
> We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
> Union,
The union refers to the union of states. Those states still exist as
individual political entities.
> establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
> common defense, promote the general Welfare,
Does not mean to provide goods and services.
>>>>> "Only individuals have rights..." If only that were true.
>>>>> Corporations have the right to make donations. Corporations have this
>>>>> right and that. Churches have the right to do X, Governments also have
>>>>> rights.
>>>> A corporation is a legal person.
>>> a corporation is a collective,
>> A corporation is not a collective. There are shareholders of a
>> corporation, and those shareholders are the ones who have the corporate
>> interest. People who work for the corporation have their interests.
>> Ideally, the interests of the shareholders and the interests of the
>> employees are aligned. That does not make them a "collective" interest;
>> it makes them mutually held individual interests.
>>
>
> yawn,
Close your mouth, felcher.
>>
>>>>> "... and those rights do not include a right to the productive effort
>>>>> of others." You think?
>>>> No, I *KNOW* for certain.
>>> the government has given permission for the collectives known as
>>> corporations to exist in the first place.
>> No, not the government.
>>
>
> then what, santa claus. corporate collectives
No such thing.
>>>>> So, I have no right to medicines developed with
>>>>> grants from governments.
>>>> Absolutely none. If you want it, you pay for it.
>>> this is also known in the free market as, free market, self
>>> responsible, self reliant, rugged individuals, as they pull themselves
>>> up by the bootstraps of their wealthy parents, with tax payer monies.
>>> you will notice he never quibbled over the subsidy you and i provide,
>> End the subsidy.
>>
>
>
> snicker, sure you will:)
I personally can't do that, but it's my position.
>>> and he never quibbles over the profit from said subsidy either:)
>> The profit doesn't come from the subsidy.
>>
>>
>
> yes i know, profits drops from the sky, not a result of a subsidy.
Profit comes from operating a business that brings in more revenue that
is spent in costs.
>>>> I believe the government should not fund drug research in the first place.
>>> well, honesty, even if its stupid, is refreshing.
>> It's not stupid.
>>
>>>>> I don't have the right to cheap food based
>>>>> mainly on the effecient highway systems.
>>>> You don't have any "right" to food, period. If you want food, earn the
>>>> money to pay for some, or beg for it. Understand that if your begging
>>>> doesn't result in any food or money being given to you, you'll go
>>>> hungry. That's just how it is, and it is good.
>>> that is the useless eaters theory that hitler and mussolini employed,
>> Logical fallacy to try to smear me by linking my view to theirs.
>>
>
>
> if it walks like
You committed a logical fallacy.
>>>>> I don't have the right to
>>>>> clean air and water?
>>>> No. You don't have *any* right to any material good or service.
>>> that is not what the constitution says.
>> It is.
>>
>
> where does it say that? however it says this:)
>
> The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
> Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
> Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
"general welfare of the United States" does not mean the material
welfare of individual persons.
>>> it says to promote and
>>> provide for the general welfare of americans.
>> That doesn't mean material goods or services.
>>
>
>
> sure it does,
It doesn't.
>>>>> What are you saying?
>>>> Just what I said above: you have no rights to any goods or services.
>>> what he is saying is, that he is a fascist.
>> No. It is not "fascism" to say that people don't have a right to goods
>> or services. They *don't* have any such right.
>>
>
> by embracing the useless eater theory,
No one has a "right" to food that obliges me or anyone else to provide
it to him at our expense.
>> "Fascism" is just a swearword coming from leftists.
>>
>
> hey,
It's just a swearword coming from stupid cocksuckers.
>>>>> "If some Detroit deadbeat..." There you go, dehumanizing a person to
>>>>> make it easier.
>>>> No, there's no dehumanization at all. Some people just are deadbeats.
>>>> I don't care about them. More to the point, I do not *owe* them any
>>>> consideration regarding their material welfare. If they're hungry,
>>>> that's too bad for them.
>>> yea, let the humans die.
>> Everyone dies.
>>
>
>
> dig that hole ever deeper.
Not a refutation, cocksucker.
>>> It's not my concern, nor should it be...unless
>>>> I *choose* to make it my concern. No one else - not you, not 10,000
>>>> people like you - has the moral authority to tell me it "ought" to be my
>>>> concern. I'll concern myself with it only if I want to do so. Everyone
>>>> else can fuck off, you most of all.
>>> the government made up of we the people not only has the moral
>>> authority,
>> No, no one has the moral authority to tell me what my concerns are or
>> should be.
>>
>
>
> then you are unamerican.
I am, of course, the quintessential American, *specifically* for holding
that belief.
>>>>> "... doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
>>>>> my problem." Ok, let us say that the Xtian premise,
>>>> No, allow *me*: it's bullshit.
>>> no allow me, we beat you in WWII.
>> No.
>>
>
>
> never give up the hope for a new fuehrer
I never had any hope for a führer. I don't believe in führers.
Hey, how do you like that Kenyan führer you've got going?
>>>>> Continuing: "... doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit,
>>>>> that's not my problem." First it does become your problem when crime
>>>>> increases,
>>>> Lock him up. If he busts into my house in the middle of the night, I'll
>>>> shoot him dead.
>>> so, the true conservative comes out, all poor people are criminals.
>> Not what I said.
>>
>
>
> sure it was
No, it wasn't.
>>>>> when diseases spread and revolution smolders.
>>>> Go ahead and keep jerking off with your collectivist crap if it makes
>>>> you feel better. It won't change the fact that the deadbeat's welfare
>>>> is not my concern. It also doesn't change the fact that collectivists
>>>> like you simply don't have the moral power to make it my concern.
>>>> You're pissing in the ocean, pal.
>>> you can lack empathy,
>> I have plenty of empathy. I get to decide on when it's appropriate to
>> feel it.
>
> psychopaths
You're one.
== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 11:04 am
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 7, 10:20 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 7:24 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
>>>>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
>>>>>> tt
>>>>> We give some children a crappy education and then wonder as they act
>>>>> ignorant.
>>>> "crappy education" -- that's deliberate "liberal" education policy.
>>> as we see today, there are many hundreds of thousands, if not
>>> millions of students who were in for profit private schools
>> False. Very few private schools were or are for profit.
>>
>> You're just a liar.
>>
>
>
> then what are they?
Not for profit, you stupid fuck.
>>>>> We exclude some people from opportunities
>>>> No.
>>> yes.
>> No.
>>
>
> yes.
No.
>>>>> We outsource living wage jobs and wonder why people are so lazy.
>>>> No one has a "right" to a job at a particular wage.
>>> that is not true, we have a minimum wage
>> You don't have a right to a job in the first place, and not at whatever
>> wage you might wish.
>>
>
> that is a childish statement.
It isn't. It's a statement of reality, *and* a well conceived moral
prescription.
>>>>> We flood certain neighborhoods with cheap drink and drugs
>>>> No. People in those neighborhoods are buying what they want. Do you
>>>> presume to tell them what to eat and drink, too? You want to run
>>>> everything else in their lives...
>>> as we have seem today, collectives flooded america with crappy food
>> No.
>>
>
>
> sure they did.
No. You believe bullshit, fuckwit.
>>>>> We dump all of society problems in prisons
>>>> No. Drug offenders shouldn't be there. Everyone else in prison belongs
>>>> there.
>>> you are sure of that blanket statement correct?
>> Yes.
>
> hmmm, just recently it was found out that many people on death row in
> illinois were innocent and black.
No, it wasn't.
== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 11:08 am
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 7, 10:23 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 6:43 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
>>> dog.com> wrote:
>>>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 11:46 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
>>>>>>>>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
>>>>>>>>>> tt
>>>>>>>>> Our money? As opposed to what? Their money? Too much us vs them, not
>>>>>>>>> enough talk about Americans.
>>>>>>>> I'm not my brother's keeper. Keep your collectivist bullshit to yourself.
>>>>>>> Funny you should misquote the Bible, "I'm not brother's keeper". The
>>>>>>> person who said that was Cain when asked about Abel shortly after
>>>>>>> murdering him.
>>>>>> No misquote. The term has come to mean, over time, that people are
>>>>>> responsible for the welfare of others, those "others" usually being
>>>>>> people who *refuse* to take responsibility for themselves.
>>>>>>> Collectivist bullshit?
>>>>>> Yes, collectivist bullshit, asshole. No one has any "right" to my
>>>>>> effort. I *choose* voluntarily to incur obligations to others - my wife
>>>>>> and child, others I care about - and they then have a reasonable
>>>>>> expectation that I will meet those obligations. When you and other
>>>>>> leftist assholes start preaching to me about what I owe people to whom I
>>>>>> have no connection other than an accident of geography, I tell you to
>>>>>> fuck off, and you *do* fuck off.
>>>>>>> Is that to do with united as in United States?
>>>>>>> Was it collectivists who wiped out smallpox? Made the US a nearly 100%
>>>>>>> literate society? I don't understand this collectivist insult. Do you
>>>>>>> mean people working together to solve problems? Then count me in.
>>>>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
>>>>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
>>>>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
>>>>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
>>>>>> my problem.
>>>>>>> You're right, I don't know what "lump of labor" means, but I'm
>>>>>>> reading about it now and I'm sure it will take several days to have it
>>>>>>> fully sink in.
>>>>>> It likely never will.
>>>>>>> What I do know is the difference between right and
>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>> No, you very clearly do not. If you think it's "right" that I can be
>>>>>> compelled to provide for someone else about whom I don't care, then you
>>>>>> have no real understanding of right and wrong: *you* are morally wrong
>>>>>> if you believe that.
>>>>> the founders were collectivists, anyone with a pulse who can read,
>>>>> knows the constitution is a collectivist document.
>>>> You been eating moldy bread.....?
>>> we have been thru this before.
>> You got it wrong then, too.
>>
>
> i am sure that
Most of what you are sure about is bullshit.
>>> read the declaration, preamble, and
>>> the constitution. the bill of rights gives rights
>> No, it does not. It acknowledges rights that individual persons hold.
>>
>
> We the People of the United States,
The Bill of Rights acknowledges individual rights; it does not "give"
rights.
>>> to the people, not
>>> person, people.
>> Individual persons.
>>
>
>
> its says we the people,
The rights are held by individuals.
>>>> The constitution and the Bill of Rights point out individual rights of
>>>> the people.
>>> correct, people, not person, but people.
>> Individual persons. Each individual person holds the rights.
>>
>
>
> it says the people,
The rights are held by individuals. Rights cannot be held by a collective.
>>> but the bill of rights is
>>> not the complete constitution, its but a part of it, and part of it
>>> says to promote, and provide for the general welfare of the people. as
>>> well as the right to regulate the economy.
>
>
> missed one hey,
"Provide for the general welfare" in no way means to provide goods and
services.
>>>> Each person has a right to free speech, otherwise it would be only when
>>>> we all speak at once and in harmony?
>>> that is a collective right,
>> It is not.
>>
>
>
> it is so.
No.
>>>> Were they really that kind of collectivist, why have 13 colonies and
>>>> not just the one great Federal government? Who needs individual States
>>>> when we can just be one collective.
>>> i have shown you the supremacy clause more than once. states have
>>> rights,
>> States do not have rights.
>
>
> correct,
Yes, of course.
>> States have powers.
>
>
> correct, limited,
No. The statement "States have power" is not limited. The powers are
limited; the statement is not.
>> People
>
> gotcha:)
You don't even have a grip on your own tiny pencil dick.
>> - individual
>> persons - have rights.
>
> as said in the preamble and bill of rights, people,
People as individual persons - not a collective.
You are wrong. You're also stupid, which is why you remain wrong in
perpetuity.
== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 11:09 am
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 8, 9:05 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 7:54 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2:34 pm, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 11:46 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 9:44 am, martin <martin.secrest...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html
>>>>>>>>>> Whatta hoot! Except it's costing money, our money.
>>>>>>>>>> tt
>>>>>>>>> Our money? As opposed to what? Their money? Too much us vs them, not
>>>>>>>>> enough talk about Americans.
>>>>>>>> I'm not my brother's keeper. Keep your collectivist bullshit to yourself.
>>>>>>> Funny you should misquote the Bible, "I'm not brother's keeper". The
>>>>>>> person who said that was Cain when asked about Abel shortly after
>>>>>>> murdering him.
>>>>>> No misquote. The term has come to mean, over time, that people are
>>>>>> responsible for the welfare of others, those "others" usually being
>>>>>> people who *refuse* to take responsibility for themselves.
>>>>>>> Collectivist bullshit?
>>>>>> Yes, collectivist bullshit, asshole. No one has any "right" to my
>>>>>> effort. I *choose* voluntarily to incur obligations to others - my wife
>>>>>> and child, others I care about - and they then have a reasonable
>>>>>> expectation that I will meet those obligations. When you and other
>>>>>> leftist assholes start preaching to me about what I owe people to whom I
>>>>>> have no connection other than an accident of geography, I tell you to
>>>>>> fuck off, and you *do* fuck off.
>>>>>>> Is that to do with united as in United States?
>>>>>>> Was it collectivists who wiped out smallpox? Made the US a nearly 100%
>>>>>>> literate society? I don't understand this collectivist insult. Do you
>>>>>>> mean people working together to solve problems? Then count me in.
>>>>>> Collectivism means that groups are more important than individuals.
>>>>>> That's false. Only individuals have rights, and those rights do not
>>>>>> include a right to the productive effort of others. If some Detroit
>>>>>> deadbeat doesn't have enough to eat or a warm place to shit, that's not
>>>>>> my problem.
>>>>>>> You're right, I don't know what "lump of labor" means, but I'm
>>>>>>> reading about it now and I'm sure it will take several days to have it
>>>>>>> fully sink in.
>>>>>> It likely never will.
>>>>>>> What I do know is the difference between right and
>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>> No, you very clearly do not. If you think it's "right" that I can be
>>>>>> compelled to provide for someone else about whom I don't care, then you
>>>>>> have no real understanding of right and wrong: *you* are morally wrong
>>>>>> if you believe that.
>>>>> the founders were collectivists,
>>>> Absolutely they were not.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
>>> The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory
>>> statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that
>> ...does not contain the word "collectivism", nor does it state any
>> collective purpose.
>>
>> I'm glad we got /that/ settled.
>
> we did not,
We did. It's settled. There is no collective purpose, because there is
no collective. There are only *individual* persons acting in concert.
That does not create a collective.
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TOPIC: OT: Europe Passes USA? Does this mean anything in "real" terms?
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 8:35 am
From: "Iceberg"
"honkifyoulovejustice" <the.tick.honkifyoulovejustice@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:b5ca2767-3421-4fbd-a459-052125bdf3f0@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 7, 9:12 am, Google Beta User <wanyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://quotes.stocknod.com/stocknod/?GUID=10077248&Page=MediaViewer&C...
>>
>> Basically, Europe is "wealther" than the USA for the first time since
>> World War I.
>>
>> In real terms, standard of living, culture, health of it's citizens,
>> etc. what's the implication?
>
> The implication is that spending more on defense than all other
> countries in the world combined gets stupider and stupider every year,
> and if we don't stop, Europe will drink red wine and eat cheese on our
> political grave.
an hilarious notion.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 8:47 am
From: SMS
The Ghost of Edward M. Kennedy wrote:
> Invading Cuba would've made more sense than Iraq. Plus
> it'd be a lot cheaper.
There's no oil in Cuba, only sugar and tobacco.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 8 2009 9:58 am
From: "The Ghost of Edward M. Kennedy"
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote
>> Invading Cuba would've made more sense than Iraq. Plus
>> it'd be a lot cheaper.
>
> There's no oil in Cuba,
Explain their hair.
--Tedward
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