Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: walking boots-- which are good?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52b4735386145e8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 12:00 am
From: GSV Three Minds in a Can

On 20/02/2010 17:44, Bob Hobden wrote:
>
>
> "PeterC" wrote...
> Bob Hobden wrote:
>>
>>> The important thing is do they fit and feel comfortable and have they
>>> got a
>>> good grippy sole. (Vibram is THE sole make)
>>
>> IME Vibram soles both skid easily and wear out rapidly.
>
> Not in my experience, certainly not as bad as some others. Probably
> depends on the tread pattern.

There are numerous different flavours of Vibram soles, and not all are
equal, but IME they do grip better than most of the alternatives.

As far as boots go .. well I've destroyed or abandoned about 10 pairs
now (3 still on the go) .. for best fit at full price (for MY feet) I
like the commercial Alt-berg ones, since they come in 5 width fittings,
and half sizes, although not all stockists stock all of them. My last
pair lasted 1500 miles, and was comfy quite fast.

If you want cheaper, then I'm quite happy with the Johncliffe Scafell
boot, for about 1/3rd of the price - I got mine via Amazon. Hawkshead
Lomer also used to be good (for me) but are now gone. Karrimor
Skye/Orkney work well for deep stuff in winter, but are a bit high for
real comfort, and take a long time to wear in.

But as everyone has said - fit is most important, followed by a decent
sole, and if you're out on mud / grass etc you need some =edges= ..
rounded heels will dump you on the first slope you try to traverse..

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
16,110 Km walked. 2,937 Km PROWs surveyed. 53.1% complete.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 5:19 am
From: "Bill Grey"

"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7u7pcrFaefU1@mid.individual.net...
> Scott Bryce wrote:
>> Peter Clinch wrote:
>>> Also, don't assume you need boots.
>>
>> In fact, assume that you don't. Get a well fitting running shoe, or a
>> lightweight trail shoe. Boots are overkill for most hiking. Lightweight
>> shoes will allow you to use a more natural stride, and will be less
>> effort to walk in.
>
> Indeed. Worth noting with running shoes is that not all grip patterns
> are up to much off-road. You want some degree of cleats/studs/lugs to
> deal with mud, unless you like sitting down a lot...
>
> The more flexible the sole the more you'll get sore feet walking on hard
> and uneven surfaces, but the less effort you'll waste on soft and/or
> even ones.
>
> Pete.

FWIW, my preference for trail shoes would be Meindle(Scout). they are
waterproof and very durable, oh yes- and comfortable.

Bill

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 5:24 am
From: "Bill Grey"

"®óñ© © ²°¹°" <ron@spamall.com> wrote in message
news:sj5tn5duuu5vm8hgku5em4p11e0d3mevus@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:58:52 -0000, "john bently"
> <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Now i have retired I would like to start walking. Would anyone know of a
>>good place to see some *critical* reviews of the different walking boots
>>available please? Apparently the last consumers association review was
>>done
>>way back in april 2006.
>>
>>Or would anyone know of some boots (preferably not too expensive) that are
>>generally believed by many people to be a good buy? Thanks for any
>>advice.
>>
>
> After you've got the boots, don't forget that it's virtually illegal
> nowadays to walk outside the house without the use of Nordic Walking
> Sticks, even if you're just popping round the corner for a paper.

So I should be safe using my two hazel thumbsticks then :-)
>
>
>
> --
> (¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pay mortage payment before due date?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3228aec93fd86575?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 12:09 am
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

In article
<7ub35cFmqvU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> > In article
> > <7uahiiFk06U1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> >>> In article
> >>> <7u71tiF5lkU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> <7u5jb0F4lfU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> <7u44kaFurcU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>
> <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed
> where it belongs>

why is it that fools like you think
censoring responses makes you seem more
"intelligent" old fella

--
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated,
sophisticated, and articulate person who
has absolutely no clue concerning what
they are talking about.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 12:38 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> In article
> <7ub35cFmqvU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <7uahiiFk06U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <7u71tiF5lkU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <7u5jb0F4lfU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>> <7u44kaFurcU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cutting down the cost of washing machine powder
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3b767149103b33f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 12:14 am
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

In article
<7ub3fdFoluU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> >>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>>> Not in some situations. I wash in cold water and wear dark blue
> >>>> T shirts all year round and find that you get a sort of scum with
> >>>> powders which appears to be due to the soap not dissolving entirely.
>
> >>> IOWs you use too much
>
> >> Wrong, as always. I get no suds forming at all and get the same
> >> result with a tenth of the amount too. The problem is that it doesnt
> >> fully dissolve in cold water.
>
> >> Works fine in hot water.
>
> > IOWs you are using the wrong soap
>
> Wrong again, I get that with all the soap powders, even those that claim to
> be for cold water.
>
> What does work is the clear liquid detergent.
>
> Quite a bit of the liquid detergent appears to just be
> the powder in liquid and that has the same problem.
>
> And I should emphasis that it is JUST a problem with the dark blue pure
> cotton T shirts, you dont see it on the jeans, towels or sheets or underwear.

So you have manufacturers that
manufacture a material that only shows
"soap crud" on one small subset of the
products it's used for. LOL

>
> And I asked all the major manufacturers about it too.
>
> There appears to be something about the dark blue pure cotton T shirts that
> get any not fully dissolved soap powder sticking to them which is the problem
> and its only visible on the very dark blue.

of course there is.

>
> When you are hanging them on the line, you can rub the visible mark
> off, which also supports the idea that is from the soap, not dirt etc.

or maybe a defective washing machine

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lorem sed odio porttitor blandit.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 12:42 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> Not in some situations. I wash in cold water and wear dark blue
>>>>>> T shirts all year round and find that you get a sort of scum with
>>>>>> powders which appears to be due to the soap not dissolving entirely.

>>>>> IOWs you use too much

>>>> Wrong, as always. I get no suds forming at all and get the same
>>>> result with a tenth of the amount too. The problem is that it
>>>> doesnt fully dissolve in cold water.

>>>> Works fine in hot water.

>>> IOWs you are using the wrong soap

>> Wrong again, I get that with all the soap powders,
>> even those that claim to be for cold water.

>> What does work is the clear liquid detergent.

>> Quite a bit of the liquid detergent appears to just be
>> the powder in liquid and that has the same problem.

>> And I should emphasis that it is JUST a problem with the dark blue pure
>> cotton T shirts, you dont see it on the jeans, towels or sheets or underwear.

> So you have manufacturers that manufacture a material that only
> shows "soap crud" on one small subset of the products it's used for.

Yep.

> LOL

Wota stunning line in rational argument you have there, child.

>> And I asked all the major manufacturers about it too.

>> There appears to be something about the dark blue pure cotton T
>> shirts that get any not fully dissolved soap powder sticking to them
>> which is the problem and its only visible on the very dark blue.

> of course there is.

>> When you are hanging them on the line, you can rub the visible mark
>> off, which also supports the idea that is from the soap, not dirt etc.

> or maybe a defective washing machine

Nope, get that with two different washing machines with very different actions.

Keep guessing, and ending up with egg all over your silly little face, as always.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/872657f71835ee58?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 12:29 am
From: "www.fjrjtrade.com"

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TOPIC: Topless US Models showing their Huge Boobs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/12305b3e7923f44c?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 2:10 am
From: kumari devisetti

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TOPIC: Hot Chestfull Boobs Babes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7baa48a73074609a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 2:27 am
From: kumari devisetti

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Titan Poker No.1 среди всех онлайн покер комнат
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/db4d209600ea4352?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 3:40 am
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TOPIC: Bingo Day- Welcome to the hottest destination for Bingo on the web.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c6aab459ac1f0af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 3:42 am
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TOPIC: DIY Pizza: Cheaper, Tastier, More Fun
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/613a0e6c1881d403?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 6:02 am
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <b2200700-1220-424c-b93a-
5fbd577da79f@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, albundy2@mailinator.com (Al)
says...

> A large pizza is only $5 where I live. Ingredients are expensive. And
> most of all, my time is worth something. DIY pizza makes no sense for
> me.

The big advantage, like with all foods, is that home made tastes better.
Compared to real food, that $5 pizza is only marginally edible. A
really good 16" pizza is going to cost you about $17 at a pizza parlor,
and about half that at home. Rule of thumb in the restaurant business
is that 1/3 the price goes to food, 1/3 goes to overhead, and 1/3 goes
to profit. That $5 pizza has about $1.70 in ingredients in it, which
means synthetic cheese, and not much of it.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

==============================================================================
TOPIC: California M.D.: U.S. Govt. giving imported Haitians $red carpet$ care
but treating U.S. citizens like 'second-class patients'
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/177c37e9dec1c405?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 6:12 am
From: mark stancil

On Feb 20, 6:34 pm, "GWashingtonFan" <GWashingtonFan_USA> wrote:
> http://vdare.com/letters/tl_021410.htm
>
> A CA Doctor Says Haitian Earthquake Victims In U.S. Could Price Out
> Senior Citizens—At Taxpayer Expense
>
> From: Herbert Chen, M.D.
>
> Recently, CNN's Wolf Blitzer interviewed the network's medical
> correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta about Haitians being transported to the
> United States for advanced medical care.
>
> Their discussion center on re-imbursement to the hospitals for medical
> care rendered to the injured.
>
> Blitzer made the point that the federal government pay out for Haitian
> care would be at 110 percent of the Medicare rate.
>
> For hospitals, this represents a windfall profit since they are set to
> break even at Medicare. It further means that hospitals may
> preferentially treat the Haiti patient over a senior citizen who has
> only Medicare.
>
> Senior citizens, therefore, could become second class patients in
> hospitals that our insurance payments over the years have helped to
> build.
>
> Finally, because of the financial advantage in treating Haitians,
> hospitals could compete with each other to bring as many earthquake
> victims to the United States as possible.
> Chen wrote previous letters urging the federal government not to invite
> the entire world to America and about Henry Louis Gates' racism.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> What Would America's Founders Say?
>
> The two enemies of the people are criminals
> and government, so let us tie the second down
> with the chains of the Constitution so the
> second will not become the legalized version
> of the first.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Those who hammer their guns into plows will
> plow for those who do not.
> --Thomas Jefferson
>
> It does not take a majority to prevail ... but
> rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on
> setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
> men.
> --Samuel Adams
>
> The strongest reason for the people to retain
> the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last
> resort, to protect themselves against tyranny
> in government.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> A free people ought not only to be armed and
> disciplined, but they should have sufficient
> arms and ammunition to maintain a status of
> independence from any who might attempt to
> abuse them, which would include their own
> government."
> -- George Washington
>
> No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> If the freedom of speech is taken away then
> dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to
> the slaughter.
> -- George Washington
>
> When governments fear the people there is liberty.
> When the people fear the government there is tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a
> standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed
> populace.
> -- James Madison
>
> If the representatives of the people betray
> their constituents, there is then no resource
> left but in the exertion of that original
> right of self-defense which is paramount to
> all positive forms of government ... The
> citizens must rush tumultuously to arms,
> without concert, without system, without
> resource; except in their courage and despair
> ... The natural strength of the people in a
> large community, in proportion to the artificial
> strength of the government, is greater than in a
> small ... the people, without exaggeration, may
> be said to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people
> of good conscience to remain silent.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every government degenerates when trusted to the
> rulers of the people alone. The people themselves
> are its only safe depositories.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> As our enemies have found we can reason like men,
> so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act!
> Action will delineate and define you.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Merchants have no country. The mere spot they
> stand on does not constitute so strong an
> attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy
> of our monied corporations which dare already to
> challenge our government to a trial by strength,
> and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more
> dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best
> forms of government those entrusted with power
> have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted
> it into tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> A Founding Father speaks out on
> what's nowadays called "political correctness":
>
> A Founding Father speaks out on what's nowadays
> called "political correctness":
>
> Do not suffer yourselves to be wheeled out of
> your liberty to publish by any pretenses of
> politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they
> are so often used, are but three different names
> for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.
> --John Adams
>
This medical care for Haitians is an outrage. No wonder
Americans are really beginning to hate the federal government.

Hook
> --

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 6:23 am
From: GLOBALIST

I hope your post was some kind of a sick joke. A natural disaster,
where folks lost absolutely everything, including family members.
People had crushed limbs, head injuries and other major traumatic
injuries and the whole planet rushed to help them to just survive and
all you can think of your own backyard...Hard to believe a reptile
like you lives on this planet.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 7:23 am
From: hoser1605

On Feb 21, 9:12 am, mark stancil <hookpoin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 6:34 pm, "GWashingtonFan" <GWashingtonFan_USA> wrote:
>
> >http://vdare.com/letters/tl_021410.htm
>
> > A CA Doctor Says Haitian Earthquake Victims In U.S. Could Price Out
> > Senior Citizens—At Taxpayer Expense
>
> > From: Herbert Chen, M.D.
>
> > Recently, CNN's Wolf Blitzer interviewed the network's medical
> > correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta about Haitians being transported to the
> > United States for advanced medical care.
>
> > Their discussion center on re-imbursement to the hospitals for medical
> > care rendered to the injured.
>
> > Blitzer made the point that the federal government pay out for Haitian
> > care would be at 110 percent of the Medicare rate.
>
> > For hospitals, this represents a windfall profit since they are set to
> > break even at Medicare. It further means that hospitals may
> > preferentially treat the Haiti patient over a senior citizen who has
> > only Medicare.
>
> > Senior citizens, therefore, could become second class patients in
> > hospitals that our insurance payments over the years have helped to
> > build.
>
> > Finally, because of the financial advantage in treating Haitians,
> > hospitals could compete with each other to bring as many earthquake
> > victims to the United States as possible.
> > Chen wrote previous letters urging the federal government not to invite
> > the entire world to America and about Henry Louis Gates' racism.
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > What Would America's Founders Say?
>
> > The two enemies of the people are criminals
> > and government, so let us tie the second down
> > with the chains of the Constitution so the
> > second will not become the legalized version
> > of the first.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > Those who hammer their guns into plows will
> > plow for those who do not.
> > --Thomas Jefferson
>
> > It does not take a majority to prevail ... but
> > rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on
> > setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
> > men.
> > --Samuel Adams
>
> > The strongest reason for the people to retain
> > the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last
> > resort, to protect themselves against tyranny
> > in government.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > A free people ought not only to be armed and
> > disciplined, but they should have sufficient
> > arms and ammunition to maintain a status of
> > independence from any who might attempt to
> > abuse them, which would include their own
> > government."
> > -- George Washington
>
> > No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > If the freedom of speech is taken away then
> > dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to
> > the slaughter.
> > -- George Washington
>
> > When governments fear the people there is liberty.
> > When the people fear the government there is tyranny.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a
> > standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed
> > populace.
> > -- James Madison
>
> > If the representatives of the people betray
> > their constituents, there is then no resource
> > left but in the exertion of that original
> > right of self-defense which is paramount to
> > all positive forms of government ... The
> > citizens must rush tumultuously to arms,
> > without concert, without system, without
> > resource; except in their courage and despair
> > ... The natural strength of the people in a
> > large community, in proportion to the artificial
> > strength of the government, is greater than in a
> > small ... the people, without exaggeration, may
> > be said to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> > -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> > All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people
> > of good conscience to remain silent.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > Every government degenerates when trusted to the
> > rulers of the people alone. The people themselves
> > are its only safe depositories.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > As our enemies have found we can reason like men,
> > so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act!
> > Action will delineate and define you.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > Merchants have no country. The mere spot they
> > stand on does not constitute so strong an
> > attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy
> > of our monied corporations which dare already to
> > challenge our government to a trial by strength,
> > and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > I believe that banking institutions are more
> > dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > Experience hath shewn, that even under the best
> > forms of government those entrusted with power
> > have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted
> > it into tyranny.
> > -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> > A Founding Father speaks out on
> > what's nowadays called "political correctness":
>
> > A Founding Father speaks out on what's nowadays
> > called "political correctness":
>
> > Do not suffer yourselves to be wheeled out of
> > your liberty to publish by any pretenses of
> > politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they
> > are so often used, are but three different names
> > for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.
> > --John Adams
>
> This medical care for Haitians is an outrage. No wonder
> Americans are really beginning to hate the federal government.
>
> Hook
>
> > --

Go away and die .

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Delivered unsafe item damaged me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3012e11d0875cc7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 6:29 am
From: "john hamilton"

Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
well known national department store.

After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
want to pull it out using these.

So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
along the back of three fingers.

Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.

This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out.

How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.

My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.

Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
contribution.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 7:12 am
From: "Existential Angst"

"john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hlrg0r$pl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
> a well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
> out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
> did not want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
> cuts along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
> if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
> file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
> happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
> U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
> then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
> happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.
>

This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
luck litigating this.
Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
bug in a yogurt.

Can you document any psychological trauma?
If you can document any resulting ED or some such, not only can *you* sue,
but your WIFE can sue as well, for loss of "conjugal privilege" or some
shit.... No foolin....

I saw a lawsuit for $10 mil for a slip/fall from a 75 y.o. lady who fell,
and $5 mil from her hubby for the above loss....
I said, Wow, dat old lady musta been some piece of......
Which makes you wonder how a judge/jury might ascertain and verify said
conjugal value of a particular spouse..... .hmmmm.....

Related to your issue is how shit is packaged in the US -- objects are
embalmed in thermo-molded plastic, so tough that you need *aviation snips*
or an effing band saw to get the product out of the packaging.
How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.

The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our CongressWhores!
Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking agenda.... I can't cite the
exact name of the bill, as I just read this in passing in a NYC newspaper.

I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150 lbs
over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
packages.... Just WHAT is the purpose to all this??? And at what
expense???

No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the corporate
policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting at a customer
rep just makes their already-miserable lives more miserable. Presumably if
50% of the customer base lodged complaints, the statistics would carry some
weight, but don't hold yer breath..

I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.

Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the consumer's
face by CorPirate Merka.
Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and pays and
pays....

fwiw.
--
EA

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 7:34 am
From: "Mrcheerful"

john hamilton wrote:
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob
> from a well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
> lifted out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap
> knobs, but I did not want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three
> deep cuts along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how
> metal is if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared
> edge with a file.
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and
> time again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably
> the way everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
> happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it
> from a U.K. store.
> My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity,
> since having to pay money might make them actually make them take
> notice and then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this
> repeatedly happening.
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.

if you were pulling the item out then how did the back of your fingers get
damaged?

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 7:41 am
From: "Colbyt"

"john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hlrg0r$pl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
> a well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
> out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
> did not want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
> cuts along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
> if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
> file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
> happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
> U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request �100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
> then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
> happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.
>

I suspect you will have very little luck at all. Undoubtedly somewhere in
the literature it says something about using an experienced qualified
installer.

This is a trend of the last 20 years. Most everything was semi-finished in
the past. In the world today nothing seems to have one. Nothing seems to
come with a rolled or smoothed edge. You can cut yourself on just about
everything.

Not very likely to change back anytime soon since everyone wants to buy it
cheap the seller wants to make it cheap and ....... well you get drift.

Colbyt

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 7:48 am
From: harry

On 21 Feb, 15:41, "Colbyt" <col...@-SPAMBLOCK-lexkyweb.com> wrote:
> "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:hlrg0r$pl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
> > a well known national department store.
>
> > After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
> > out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
> > did not want to pull it out using these.
>
> > So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
> > cuts along the back of three fingers.
>
> > Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
> > if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
> > file.
>
> > This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> > again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> > everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> > How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
> > happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
> > U.K. store.
>
> > My collegue suggests I should request 100 to be sent to a charity, since
> > having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
> > then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
> > happening.
>
> > Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> > contribution.
>
> I suspect you will have very little luck at all. �Undoubtedly somewhere in
> the literature it says something about using an experienced qualified
> installer.
>
> This is a trend of the last 20 years. �Most everything was semi-finished in
> the past. �In the world today nothing seems to have one. �Nothing seems to
> come with a rolled or smoothed edge. �You can cut yourself on just about
> everything.
>
> Not very likely to change back anytime soon since everyone wants to buy it
> cheap the seller wants to make it cheap and ....... well you get drift.
>
> Colbyt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lots of stuff these days is made in third world countries with very
low standards. You can also get poisoned with lead, arsenic,
asbestos etc. etc.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 8:06 am
From: DerbyDad03

On Feb 21, 9:29 am, "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
> well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
> There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
> want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
> along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
> its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
> again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
> carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.

re: "After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be
lifted out.... Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
everybody else would try to lift it out. "

Not everybody...

Ever heard of a box cutter?

Slit the corner seams of the box vertically so that it opens like
flower.

If you need to repackage the item, use strapping tape to put the box
back together.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 8:06 am
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"

On Feb 21, 9:12 am, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:hlrg0r$pl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from
> > a well known national department store.
>
> > After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted
> > out. There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I
> > did not want to pull it out using these.
>
> > So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep
> > cuts along the back of three fingers.
>
> > Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is
> > if its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a
> > file.
>
> > This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> > again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> > everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> > How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this
> > happening again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a
> > U.K. store.
>
> > My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
> > having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and
> > then carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly
> > happening.
>
> > Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> > contribution.
>
> This is an interesting scenario. In the US, a group might or might not have
> luck litigating this.
> Sheeit, people have been awarded millions for coffee that was too hot, for a
> bug in a yogurt.
>
> Can you document any psychological trauma?
> If you can document any resulting ED or some such, not only can *you* sue,
> but your WIFE can sue as well, for loss of "conjugal privilege" or some
> shit.... No foolin....
>
> I saw a lawsuit for $10 mil for a slip/fall from a 75 y.o. lady who fell,
> and $5 mil from her hubby for the above loss....
> I said, Wow, dat old lady musta been some piece of......
> Which makes you wonder how a judge/jury might ascertain and verify said
> conjugal value of a particular spouse..... .hmmmm.....
>
> Related to your issue is how shit is packaged in the US -- objects are
> embalmed in thermo-molded plastic, so tough that you need *aviation snips*
> or an effing band saw to get the product out of the packaging.
> How fragile senior citizens cope with this is beyond me.
>
> The situtation is so bad that this issue even reached our CongressWhores!
> Altho clearly not high on their graft-taking agenda.... I can't cite the
> exact name of the bill, as I just read this in passing in a NYC newspaper.
>
> I have called up a mfr or two, and told them: Dudes, I can lift 150 lbs
> over my head, and run 5 miles.... and *I* can't open your fucking
> packages.... Just WHAT is the purpose to all this??? And at what
> expense???
>
> No rational response, of course, and how could there be, as the corporate
> policy-makers are so well-shielded from consumers. Venting at a customer
> rep just makes their already-miserable lives more miserable. Presumably if
> 50% of the customer base lodged complaints, the statistics would carry some
> weight, but don't hold yer breath..
>
> I believe that this thermoplastic is tough enough, sharp enough to slit
> someone's wrist, if they slip in their efforts.
>
> Ultimately, I believe this is just another deliberate slap in the consumer's
> face by CorPirate Merka.
> Fuck you, fuck me, fuck everyone, as long as everyone just pays and pays and
> pays....
>
> fwiw.
> --
> EA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Your reply might make more sense to a non-USA person if you used a
little bit more polite language and regular names instead of swearing
continually.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 21 2010 8:34 am
From: Tony Hwang

john hamilton wrote:
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
> well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
> There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
> want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
> along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
> its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
> again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
> carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.
>
>
Hmmm,
Laziness, stupidity, common sense, inexperience.

==============================================================================
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etc brand jeans (http://www.vipchinatrade.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e0ff59e0da345e6b?hl=en
==============================================================================

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