Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 9 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sony Ericsson Vivaz Comes With HD Video Recording
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/14ef286f3e9984f4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:04 am
From: Elango

The new Vivaz has an 8.1MP camera with 720p video recording. It is
smaller than the Satio in terms of the overall size and the screen
size. But it has some really interesting features that even it's big
brother doesn't possess. The most striking feature of Vivaz is it
enables HD recording.

For more details

http://www.shoppingreps.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productId=10438?SourceId=1120

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are currently your best saving tips ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a23335cb8985c73c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:21 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <hsubqh$eko$1@news.eternal-september.org>, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>Bob F wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> ...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
>>>> cools off? You're FOS
>>>
>>> Well, look at it this way:
>>>
>>> The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
>>> He only
>>> has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
>>> he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have
>>> a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done using
>>> hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up
>>> all of that
>>> 40 F water.
>>
>> Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
>> doubles the savings I get.
>>
>> It is nice to see others here that can really think.
>
>I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those losses heat the
>
>house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses there.

The biggest problem is old heaters that constantly suck air out the
house through the one way exaust. A constant pilot produces constant
flow. Every day, all the time. A closed system is the most efficient.
I don't guess there is one that closes the pipe when there is no flame.

greg

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:35 am
From: keith

On May 18, 9:56 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> keith wrote:
> > He was claiming that the waste heat helped in the Winter. ...can't
> > have it both ways.
>
> > Someone in the thread was pointing out heat loss in pipes. Well, it's
> > doubled, at minimum, if the hot water is recirculated back to the
> > water heater. ...can't have it both ways.
>
> The hot water doesn't get back to the heater. The pump turns off before that.
> The hot water gets to the faucet.

Then it accomplishes nothing. That is, you're lying.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:36 am
From: keith

On May 18, 9:54 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> keith wrote:
> > On May 18, 10:13 am, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> keith wrote:
> >>>>> ...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it
> >>>>> never cools off? You're FOS
>
> >>>> Well, look at it this way:
>
> >>>> The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
> >>>> He only
> >>>> has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
> >>>> he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would
> >>>> have a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done
> >>>> using hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from
> >>>> heating up all of that
> >>>> 40 F water.
>
> >>> But it's the *same* loss as that in the supply line, i.e. twice the
> >>> loss.
>
> >> Must be nice to know it all.
>
> >> But you are wrong. Enough said.
>
> > If you believe this you're amazingly stupid.
>
> LOL!

Your ignorance isn't that funny.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:36 am
From: keith

On May 18, 4:23 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snetnospam.net> wrote:
> "keith" <keith...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >> The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
> >> He only
> >> has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
> >> he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have a
> >> lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done using hot
> >> water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up all of
> >> that
> >> 40 F water.
>
> > But it's the *same* loss as that in the supply line, i.e. twice the
> > loss.
>
> If it is heating season, there is no loss as you'd be adding heat to the air
> in some form.

I addressed that issue too; you forget summer. There is no such thing
as a free lunch.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:09 am
From: "Bob F"

keith wrote:
> On May 18, 9:54 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> keith wrote:
>>> On May 18, 10:13 am, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> keith wrote:
>>>>>>> ...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it
>>>>>>> never cools off? You're FOS
>>
>>>>>> Well, look at it this way:
>>
>>>>>> The water in the return line is probably close to room
>>>>>> temperature. He only
>>>>>> has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature.
>>>>>> If he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater
>>>>>> would have a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when
>>>>>> he's done using hot water, but probably not as great as the
>>>>>> usage from heating up all of that
>>>>>> 40 F water.
>>
>>>>> But it's the *same* loss as that in the supply line, i.e. twice
>>>>> the loss.
>>
>>>> Must be nice to know it all.
>>
>>>> But you are wrong. Enough said.
>>
>>> If you believe this you're amazingly stupid.
>>
>> LOL!
>
> Your ignorance isn't that funny.

My ignorance is smarter than your brilliance.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:13 am
From: "Bob F"

keith wrote:
> On May 18, 9:56 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> keith wrote:
>>> He was claiming that the waste heat helped in the Winter. ...can't
>>> have it both ways.
>>
>>> Someone in the thread was pointing out heat loss in pipes. Well,
>>> it's doubled, at minimum, if the hot water is recirculated back to
>>> the water heater. ...can't have it both ways.
>>
>> The hot water doesn't get back to the heater. The pump turns off
>> before that. The hot water gets to the faucet.
>
> Then it accomplishes nothing. That is, you're lying.

Are you really this clueless?

Run the water down the drain until it gets hot at the tap, bringing in cold
water into the heater.

Run the same amount of water back to the heater till it is hot at the tap,
bringing in no cold water to the heater.

Which one wastes the most water?
Whick one wastes the most heat?

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:14 am
From: "Bob F"

GregS wrote:
> In article <hsubqh$eko$1@news.eternal-september.org>, "Bob F"
> <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bob F wrote:
>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> ...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it
>>>>> never cools off? You're FOS
>>>>
>>>> Well, look at it this way:
>>>>
>>>> The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
>>>> He only
>>>> has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
>>>> he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would
>>>> have a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done
>>>> using hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from
>>>> heating up all of that
>>>> 40 F water.
>>>
>>> Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
>>> doubles the savings I get.
>>>
>>> It is nice to see others here that can really think.
>>
>> I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those
>> losses heat the
>>
>> house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses
>> there.
>
>
> The biggest problem is old heaters that constantly suck air out the
> house through the one way exaust. A constant pilot produces constant
> flow. Every day, all the time. A closed system is the most efficient.
> I don't guess there is one that closes the pipe when there is no
> flame.

I think the power vent heaters would approximate that catagory.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much power does a 120v 15A lighted switch use anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3870703c69659a21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:22 am
From: bud--

Nonny wrote:
>
> Interesting observation. I know that when a single lead from a neon
> light touches a hot wire, the neon light will glow if there is almost
> anything touching the other lead. Was used as a voltage checker long
> before the IC devices were available. If the neon's lead was touching a
> hot wire and the other a ground/neutral, then the lamp glowed brightly,
> otherwise, there was a lesser glow.
>
> This leads me to the conclusion that neon lighted switches take
> advantage of this ability and do NOT require a lead to ground or neutral
> to achieve the low level glow seen in a lighted switch. Perhaps an LED
> lighted switch would require a grounded/neutral other lead to work,
> together with diode to convert the AC to DC.

If the switch is lighted when off, the neon lamp (and series resistor)
are connected across the switch. The small current through the neon lamp
flows through the load on the switch. For a 3-way switch, the lamp is
connected across the travelers.

For a switch that is lighted (neon) when the switch is on, the switch
probably has a neutral connection. There is a resistor from each side of
the switch to the neon lamp, with the other side the lamp connected to
the neutral.

LEDs could operate essentially the same, probably with an extra diode.

--
bud--

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:06 am
From: David Nebenzahl

On 5/19/2010 5:58 AM keith spake thus:

> On May 18, 9:17 pm, Smitty Two <prestwh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <vOOdnTtRQq5q3m7WnZ2dnUVZ_hqdn...@earthlink.com>,
>>
>> "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It's gonna get more expensive soon. Arizona provides about 30% of
>>> California's power, and Arizona is pissed.
>>
>> If they won't give us power, we'll send them our illegal aliens.
>
> Actually, Arizona is well on the way to sending you their illegals.

Fine. We'll happily accept them here.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:07 am
From: keith

On May 19, 12:06 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 5/19/2010 5:58 AM keith spake thus:
>
>
>
> > On May 18, 9:17 pm, Smitty Two <prestwh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> In article <vOOdnTtRQq5q3m7WnZ2dnUVZ_hqdn...@earthlink.com>,
>
> >> "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> It's gonna get more expensive soon. Arizona provides about 30% of
> >>> California's power, and Arizona is pissed.
>
> >> If they won't give us power, we'll send them our illegal aliens.
>
> > Actually, Arizona is well on the way to sending you their illegals.
>
> Fine. We'll happily accept them here.
>
That's good, because you're getting them in any case.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It is said good sex is necessary for happiness
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/91d92bb26fc229a5?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:35 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

On May 18, 1:55 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of QuixoticEnterprises" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:216d9cf6-4888-4098-a6d5-c726d13161d1@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > (The point of this is that the scientists are inspired by the Dalai
> > Lama to study happiness. Jesus denied sex, Dalai Lama avoids the
> > subject, but the Wise Tibetan Monkey addresses the issue)
>
> > On May 17, 12:21 pm, "Hidden Draggin" <ansa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> DT wrote:
> >> > Beerlet Dhiblang wrote:
> >> >> On 5/15/2010 6:19 PM, Nobody in Particular wrote:
> >> >>> "Scientists often study depression, anxiety and fear, but why not
> >> >>> devote your work to the causes of positive human qualities like
> >> >>> happiness and compassion?"
>
> >> >>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100514/ap_on_re_us/us_dalai_lama_scientist
>
> >> >> Free prozac for everybody!!!!!!
>
> >> >> /l
>
> >> > Nah, none for me, thanks.
>
> >> > I'd just twirl my prayer wheel a few times, but then I'd have to
> >> > explain it to Sandy again. ;-)
>
> >> I guess I will just break out the Kentucky Jelly and
> >> "twirl my prayer wheel" again. Now if I tattoo the
> >> right sutras on my pecker will I accumulate merit?
>
> >> Oh mane padme hummer!
>
> > It is said good sex is necessary for happiness! I agree.
>
> TM is a poor crazy bastard who just posts on his one favorite subject -
> hatred of motor vehicles because they interfere with his use of the roads.
> His other favorite subject is attacking Christianity. If you respond to this
> poor crazy bastard, then you are a poor crazy bastard too.
>
> He likes to reference monkeys and other wild animals normally found only in
> zoos because he is most likely a wild beast himself. I think he fornicates
> with monkeys, but I can't prove it.
>
> TM should confine himself to just one thread instead of proliferating them
> like a poor crazy bastard. He is insane of course. I liken him to the
> village idiot of olden times. The difference these days is that no one any
> longer recognizes the village idiot because idiocy has become so widespread.
>
> But I will be here to remind one and all of what a poor crazy bastard TM is.
> It is mark of My Greatness that I can still recognize the village idiot even
> if the rest of you can't.
>

Hey, Ed, you hate sex so you can join the Dalai Lama or the Pope.

But the BANANA REVOLUTION is very open about it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 11:48 am
From: JNugent

Could this be connected in any way to the foul temper and aggression that
many cyclists seem to permanently display (especially the ones who cycle
around looking for trouble with video cameras strapped to their heads)?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Let's face it: There's no Frugality without Biking or Walking
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0879cc1adece1af9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 7:54 am
From: dgk

On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:42:41 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
wrote:

>
>"His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
>Enterprises" <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:f6650b08-ea0c-4003-aa5e-38d5555609c9@m33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>On May 17, 3:05 pm, D_Frumiu...@ndersnat.ch wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and
>> Chief of Quixotic Enterprises <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Who's Big Ed, anyway?
>>
>> Well, to use a simile, if we say that you have a mouth the size of
>> the USS Nimitz, his is the size of the USS Enterprise. But don't look
>> to me for enlightenment. I'll leave the two of you to ruin the group
>> together.
>
>All newsgroups have already been ruined. They are strictly for idiots. But
>even so, some idiots are more idiotic than other idiots. TM is such an
>idiot. I will teach him a thing or two.
>

Please, he's already a big enough idiot. No more lessons.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Students, schools, disabilities, and funds?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/afb93db002284c89?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 8:06 am
From: Lenona

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2011775732_parents09.html

By family therapist John Rosemond.

Excerpts:

The mere fact that a person is lacking in some characteristic or
ability does not necessarily mean something is "wrong." That a certain
10-year-old child is shy, lacks conversational skills, and prefers
solitary activity to group play does not mean something is amiss
inside the child's brain. Nor does the mere fact that a child
struggles with learning to read or do math mean his brain isn't
working properly. Also, it is well known that the child who is
"painfully" shy at ten may be outgoing at age forty-six, and a child
who struggles to learn to read may grow up to be a best-selling
author. Very little about a human being is set in stone.

All of this is to say that for all the prior lip service, today's
educators seem to have absolutely no respect for individual
differences, no respect for the fact that "lack" is not synonymous
with wrong. In today's schools, the range of acceptability concerning
an ever-increasing number of aptitudes has been getting narrower and
narrower over the past couple of decades.

This narrow-mindedness on the part of educators has coincided with the
proliferation of various supposed childhood "disorders."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?source_name=mbase&source_id=2011775732
(seven responses)

Here's one:

" By the way, isn't it interesting that every time a child is found to
qualify for a diagnosis, the child's school qualifies for more money
from the state and federal governments? As my grandmother used to say,
"Well, don't that beat all!"

Really? If anything, in the school district I work for we are under
pressure NOT to give a diagnosis as providing the extra required
services is very expensive (and is not completely reimbursed by
federal or state funds). Does this psychologist even work in schools?

(end)

Does anyone agree with that commenter? I wouldn't know about how
school districts work, but I'm curious.

Lenona.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 11:32 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Lenona wrote:
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2011775732_parents09.html
>
> By family therapist John Rosemond.
>
> Excerpts:
>
> The mere fact that a person is lacking in some characteristic or
> ability does not necessarily mean something is "wrong." That a certain
> 10-year-old child is shy, lacks conversational skills, and prefers
> solitary activity to group play does not mean something is amiss
> inside the child's brain. Nor does the mere fact that a child
> struggles with learning to read or do math mean his brain isn't
> working properly. Also, it is well known that the child who is
> "painfully" shy at ten may be outgoing at age forty-six, and a child
> who struggles to learn to read may grow up to be a best-selling
> author. Very little about a human being is set in stone.
>
> All of this is to say that for all the prior lip service, today's
> educators seem to have absolutely no respect for individual
> differences, no respect for the fact that "lack" is not synonymous
> with wrong. In today's schools, the range of acceptability concerning
> an ever-increasing number of aptitudes has been getting narrower and
> narrower over the past couple of decades.
>
> This narrow-mindedness on the part of educators has coincided with the
> proliferation of various supposed childhood "disorders."
>
>
> http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?source_name=mbase&source_id=2011775732
> (seven responses)
>
> Here's one:
>
> " By the way, isn't it interesting that every time a child is found to
> qualify for a diagnosis, the child's school qualifies for more money
> from the state and federal governments? As my grandmother used to say,
> "Well, don't that beat all!"
>
> Really? If anything, in the school district I work for we are under
> pressure NOT to give a diagnosis as providing the extra required
> services is very expensive (and is not completely reimbursed by
> federal or state funds). Does this psychologist even work in schools?
>
> (end)
>
> Does anyone agree with that commenter? I wouldn't know about how
> school districts work, but I'm curious.

I expect the real world is a mixture of both approaches.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Monster Food, don't we deserve to know?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/80c7e398612cad60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 8:44 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

(The Christians don't know, and probably won't want to know about
GMO's. Meanwhile they are generally opposed to cloning a sheep,
shaping the policies on stem research... Who's being the sheep?)

"67% felt that cloning animals, such as sheep, was a bad idea."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/clo_reac.htm

***

This all must be very confusing for the mind of the sheep. ;)

On May 19, 8:35 am, default <defa...@defaulter.net> wrote:

> The "media" has an agenda. Was it a fluke that one of Rupert
> Murdoch's rags associate a Supreme Court nominee with lesbianism?
> She's over 40 and unmarried (strike one), She's pictured playing
> softball (strike two) - then if you still didn't get it, the facing
> page also contains a column about lesbians, combined with a article
> specifically linking the two.
>
> I don't know: liberal-conservative, left-right, Republican-Democrat -
> I do, however, believe that the media gives favorable treatment to
> large corporate interests and that often enough means
> anti-environment, anti-democracy, anti-minority (while mindful of
> political correctness, or better stated, political expediency).
>
> Religion politics, and corporate interests, often seem to work hand in
> hand to keep the masses sedated and fleeced. Not a "conspiracy," I'm
> sure, but indistinguishable from one (most days).
>
> You are no doubt watching how the gulf oil spill is playing out in the
> media, congress and the tree hugger organizations? Are you able to
> learn, or are you just believing in what you are being told to
> believe? Plenty of hype innuendo and spin with the biggest corporate
> moguls on the planet lining up to tell us how it isn't their fault.
> --

Consider the role of the media when we are eating all that monster
food called "GMO's," which in Europe is banned. Or consider the role
of the media on the War on Drugs, and you'll understand their silence
is as important or more than what they report.

***

In Korea though they reject this monster food with full riots....

Genetically modified crops: 'Monster food' or a big step to feeding
the world's hungry?

While hungry people from Haiti to Somalia rioted this month over food
shortages and price increases, South Koreans protested the arrival of
63,000 tons of grain at their ports.

http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/05/13/1824/genetically_modified_crops_monster_food_or_a_big_step_to_feeding_the_worlds_hungry

***

Perhaps our media needs the sheep to be kept ignorant so they can be
handled better. We know one thing: THE SHEEP ARE GETTING FATTER!

-------------------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Being fatter is a sign that you are ready to become lunch"

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mexicans are parasites
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ef76ec9a0fb2525e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 9:03 am
From: Yer Pal Al

On May 18, 7:26 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yer Pal Al wrote:
> > On May 18, 12:51 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The PHANTOM wrote:
> >>> On May 18, 8:53 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On May 18, 8:22 am, tripletask@gmail..com wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 21:16:45 -0700, *USA* <sanj...@here.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet. This
> >>>>>> should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
> >>>>>> Independent.
>
> >>>>>>> From a California school teacher - - -
>
> >>>>>>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over
> >>>>>>> illegal
> >>>>>> immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
> >>>>>>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department
> >>>>>>> at a
> >>>>>> large southern California high school which is designated a
> >>>>>> Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower
> >>>>>> socioeconomic and income levels.
>
> >>>>>>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
> >>>>>> Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are
> >>>>>> protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
> >>>>>>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch
> >>>>>>> program.
> >>>>>> When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and
> >>>>>> roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and
> >>>>>> juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food
> >>>>>> is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the
> >>>>>> trash uneaten.
>
> >>>>>>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at
> >>>>>>> least
> >>>>>> moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The
> >>>>>> school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage
> >>>>>> pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class
> >>>>>> without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or
> >>>>>> having family watch their kids.
> >>>>>>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing
> >>>>>> funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need
> >>>>>> for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up
> >>>>>> buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of
> >>>>>> which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the
> >>>>>> appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to
> >>>>>> have a free education in America.
>
> >>>>>>> I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
> >>>>>> teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant
> >>>>>> students, here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so
> >>>>>> much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores)
> >>>>>> and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.
>
> >>>>>>> Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc.,
> >>>>>>> etc,
> >>>>>> etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
> >>>>>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>
> >>>>>>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants
> >>>>>> contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
> >>>>>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some
> >>>>>> time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE
> >>>>>> costs.
>
> >>>>>>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical
> >>>>>>> costs,
> >>>>>> more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
> >>>>>> overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>
> >>>>>>> Americans, We need to wake up.
>
> >>>>>>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It
> >>>>>>> involves an
> >>>>>> American third-world culture that does not value education, that
> >>>>>> accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by
> >>>>>> 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that
> >>>>>> has become so weak and worried about "political correctness"
> >>>>>> that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
> >>>>>>> If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
> >>>>>>> everyone you know.
>
> >>>>>>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is
> >>>>>>> about?
> >>>>>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. Consumers don't want
> >>>>>> expensive produce.
>
> >>>>>>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs. But the
> >>>>>> bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a
> >>>>>> farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>
> >>>>>>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five
> >>>>>>> children. He
> >>>>>> takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
> >>>>>> dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if
> >>>>>> he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit"
> >>>>>> of up to $3,200 free.
>
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for food stamps.
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
> >>>>>>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
> >>>>>>> He requires bilingual teachers and books.
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
> >>>>>>> If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify
> >>>>>>> for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare.
>
> >>>>>>> All of this is at (OUR) taxpayer's expense.
> >>>>>>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
> >>>>>>> homeowners insurance. Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs,
> >>>>>>> bulletins and printed material. He and his family receive the
> >>>>>>> equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
>
> >>>>>>> Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left
> >>>>>>> after paying their bills AND his. Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
> >>>>>>> THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE
> >>>>>>> CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY.
>
> >>>>>>> AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD
> >>>>>>> REPLACE THEM.
>
> >>>>>>> Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration
> >>>>>>> legislation
> >>>>>> is to be considered in 2010. This is important to working
> >>>>>> Americans, our economy and our American culture and heritage..
>
> >>>>>>> Grace Gan
> >>>>>>> Ukiah Unified School District
> >>>>>>> 925 N. State St.
> >>>>>>> Ukiah, CA 95482
>
> >>>>> These IQ 85 invaders are an obsolete people who have been
> >>>>> encouraged to cross the border. They are the dregs of central
> >>>>> America, their homelands are glad to rid of them. Do you want
> >>>>> them here?
> >>>> That describes 95% of the white Europeans that came here...poor
> >>>> white trash, potato famers, religious fanatics that drove their
> >>>> neighbors crazy, kids coming out of their ass, a dozen at a time.
> >>> You mean the same white europeans that came here,worked hard
>
> >> Plenty of them never did work hard, and plenty of them did lots of
> >> crime too.
>
> >>> and built the best country on the planet?
>
> >> Pure fantasy.
>
> > What country is better?
>
> Depends on what measure you use.
>
> Plenty are a lot safer, with a much lower murder rate etc.
>
> All modern first world countrys have a better way of handling health care costs.
>
> Quite a few dont have a legal system that has been off the rails for centurys now.
>
> Etc etc etc.

Yea... Freedom sucks sometimes. If you're willing to sell some of it
away you can live in what you think is a better country. You didn't
answer the question though. What country?

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:28 am
From: "tdny"

1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohvE1iKjHo

2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqi8bc_g7nE

3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrcNLaeBZMw

4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCzR4w7Is8w

5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3t2oP12hQ

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:30 am
From: "tdny"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEaA7cEZnmU&feature=player_embedded#

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:31 am
From: "tdny"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aci_wE6csQ

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 10:32 am
From: "tdny"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsaUPT4PUQ0&NR=1

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 11:03 am
From: Mrs Irish Mike

On May 18, 11:10 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yer Pal Al wrote:
> > On May 18, 9:39 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On May 18, 11:16 am, Yer Pal Al <caddyshack...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On May 18, 6:53 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On May 18, 8:22 am, tripletask@gmail..com wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 21:16:45 -0700, *USA* <sanj...@here.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet. This
> >>>>>> should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
> >>>>>> Independent.
>
> >>>>>>> From a California school teacher - - -
>
> >>>>>>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over
> >>>>>>> illegal
> >>>>>> immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
> >>>>>>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department
> >>>>>>> at a
> >>>>>> large southern California high school which is designated a
> >>>>>> Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower
> >>>>>> socioeconomic and income levels.
>
> >>>>>>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
> >>>>>> Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are
> >>>>>> protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
> >>>>>>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch
> >>>>>>> program.
> >>>>>> When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and
> >>>>>> roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and
> >>>>>> juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food
> >>>>>> is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the
> >>>>>> trash uneaten.
>
> >>>>>>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at
> >>>>>>> least
> >>>>>> moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
> >>>>>> The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage
> >>>>>> pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class
> >>>>>> without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters
> >>>>>> or having family watch their kids.
> >>>>>>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing
> >>>>>> funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need
> >>>>>> for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up
> >>>>>> buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of
> >>>>>> which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the
> >>>>>> appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to
> >>>>>> have a free education in America.
>
> >>>>>>> I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
> >>>>>> teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant
> >>>>>> students, here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so
> >>>>>> much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores)
> >>>>>> and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.
>
> >>>>>>> Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc.,
> >>>>>>> etc,
> >>>>>> etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
> >>>>>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>
> >>>>>>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants
> >>>>>> contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
> >>>>>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some
> >>>>>> time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE
> >>>>>> costs.
>
> >>>>>>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical
> >>>>>>> costs,
> >>>>>> more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
> >>>>>> overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>
> >>>>>>> Americans, We need to wake up.
>
> >>>>>>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It
> >>>>>>> involves an
> >>>>>> American third-world culture that does not value education, that
> >>>>>> accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by
> >>>>>> 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that
> >>>>>> has become so weak and worried about "political correctness"
> >>>>>> that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
> >>>>>>> If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
> >>>>>> everyone you know.
>
> >>>>>>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is
> >>>>>>> about?
> >>>>>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. Consumers don't want
> >>>>>> expensive produce.
>
> >>>>>>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs. But the
> >>>>>> bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth,
> >>>>>> a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>
> >>>>>>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five
> >>>>>>> children. He
> >>>>>> takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
> >>>>>> dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year,
> >>>>>> if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income
> >>>>>> credit" of up to $3,200 free.
>
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for food stamps.
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
> >>>>>>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
> >>>>>>> He requires bilingual teachers and books.
> >>>>>>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
> >>>>>>> If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify
> >>>>>>> for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare.
>
> >>>>>>> All of this is at (OUR) taxpayer's expense.
> >>>>>>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
> >>>>>>> homeowners insurance. Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs,
> >>>>>>> bulletins and printed material. He and his family receive the
> >>>>>>> equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
>
> >>>>>>> Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left
> >>>>>>> after paying their bills AND his. Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
> >>>>>>> THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE
> >>>>>>> CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY.
>
> >>>>>>> AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD
> >>>>>>> REPLACE THEM.
>
> >>>>>>> Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration
> >>>>>>> legislation
> >>>>>> is to be considered in 2010. This is important to working
> >>>>>> Americans, our economy and our American culture and heritage..
>
> >>>>>>> Grace Gan
> >>>>>>> Ukiah Unified School District
> >>>>>>> 925 N. State St.
> >>>>>>> Ukiah, CA 95482
>
> >>>>> These IQ 85 invaders are an obsolete people who have been
> >>>>> encouraged to cross the border. They are the dregs of central
> >>>>> America, their homelands are glad to rid of them. Do you want
> >>>>> them here?
>
> >>>>> cole- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >>>> That describes 95% of the white Europeans that came here...poor
> >>>> white trash, potato famers, religious fanatics that drove their
> >>>> neighbors crazy, kids coming out of their ass, a dozen at a time.
>
> >>> A huge difference is that the Europeans who came here came here
> >>> legally and wanted to become Americanized.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> So you would love to believe. What is a WOP..why is a WOP...WITH OUT PAPERS...
>
> Nope.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wop
>
> > BS. It comes from the word "guap" and "without" is one word.
>
> >> tons of Italians and Sicilians who came over cause their
> >> brother came here or their uncle , some had papers some didn't and it
> >> drove the Immigration people nuts..since half the house was legal and
> >> the other house not.
> > Illegal immigration wasn't a problem until the 2nd half of the 20th century
>
> Yes, when america changed who was allowed in legally.
>
> > when started giving away freebees.
>
> Nope. There were plenty of mexican legals before that, most obviously with harvest labor.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Right. The problems started when employers were allowed to hire
illegal aliens without fear of prosecution. The demand for labor
remained the same, but the supply increased. We could imprison and
deport 12 million people, braking up families and disrupt the lives of
the poor at great costs. Or we could imprison a few CEOs for allowing
undocumented workers to work. A few CEOs could write home about being
gang butt raped and the practice of hiring illegals would stop mucho
rapido. No jobs, no illegal workers.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 11:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Yer Pal Al wrote:
> On May 18, 7:26 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yer Pal Al wrote:
>>> On May 18, 12:51 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The PHANTOM wrote:
>>>>> On May 18, 8:53 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On May 18, 8:22 am, tripletask@gmail..com wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 21:16:45 -0700, *USA* <sanj...@here.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet.
>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>> should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
>>>>>>>> Independent.
>>
>>>>>>>>> From a California school teacher - - -
>>
>>>>>>>>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over
>>>>>>>>> illegal
>>>>>>>> immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
>>>>>>>>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department
>>>>>>>>> at a
>>>>>>>> large southern California high school which is designated a
>>>>>>>> Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower
>>>>>>>> socioeconomic and income levels.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High,
>>>>>>>>> Bell
>>>>>>>> Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are
>>>>>>>> protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
>>>>>>>>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch
>>>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>>> When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and
>>>>>>>> roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and
>>>>>>>> juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food
>>>>>>>> is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the
>>>>>>>> trash uneaten.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or
>>>>>>>>> at least
>>>>>>>> moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
>>>>>>>> The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage
>>>>>>>> pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class
>>>>>>>> without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters
>>>>>>>> or having family watch their kids.
>>>>>>>>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk
>>>>>>>>> losing
>>>>>>>> funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need
>>>>>>>> for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up
>>>>>>>> buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of
>>>>>>>> which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the
>>>>>>>> appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful
>>>>>>>> to have a free education in America.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
>>>>>>>> teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant
>>>>>>>> students, here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so
>>>>>>>> much hell with the female teachers, calling them
>>>>>>>> "Putas"(whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in
>>>>>>>> tears.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc.,
>>>>>>>>> etc,
>>>>>>>> etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
>>>>>>>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>>
>>>>>>>>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal
>>>>>>>>> immigrants
>>>>>>>> contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
>>>>>>>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some
>>>>>>>> time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE
>>>>>>>> costs.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical
>>>>>>>>> costs,
>>>>>>>> more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
>>>>>>>> overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Americans, We need to wake up.
>>
>>>>>>>>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It
>>>>>>>>> involves an
>>>>>>>> American third-world culture that does not value education,
>>>>>>>> that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of
>>>>>>>> school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American
>>>>>>>> culture that has become so weak and worried about "political
>>>>>>>> correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
>>>>>>>>> everyone you know.
>>
>>>>>>>>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is
>>>>>>>>> about?
>>>>>>>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. Consumers don't
>>>>>>>> want expensive produce.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs. But
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a
>>>>>>>> myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap
>>>>>>>> labor."
>>
>>>>>>>>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five
>>>>>>>>> children. He
>>>>>>>> takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
>>>>>>>> dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year,
>>>>>>>> if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income
>>>>>>>> credit" of up to $3,200 free.
>>
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for food stamps.
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
>>>>>>>>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
>>>>>>>>> He requires bilingual teachers and books.
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
>>>>>>>>> If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify
>>>>>>>>> for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare.
>>
>>>>>>>>> All of this is at (OUR) taxpayer's expense.
>>>>>>>>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
>>>>>>>>> homeowners insurance. Taxpayers provide Spanish language
>>>>>>>>> signs, bulletins and printed material. He and his family
>>>>>>>>> receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left
>>>>>>>>> after paying their bills AND his. Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
>>>>>>>>> THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE
>>>>>>>>> CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY.
>>
>>>>>>>>> AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD
>>>>>>>>> REPLACE THEM.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration
>>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>> is to be considered in 2010. This is important to working
>>>>>>>> Americans, our economy and our American culture and heritage..
>>
>>>>>>>>> Grace Gan
>>>>>>>>> Ukiah Unified School District
>>>>>>>>> 925 N. State St.
>>>>>>>>> Ukiah, CA 95482
>>
>>>>>>> These IQ 85 invaders are an obsolete people who have been
>>>>>>> encouraged to cross the border. They are the dregs of central
>>>>>>> America, their homelands are glad to rid of them. Do you want
>>>>>>> them here?
>>>>>> That describes 95% of the white Europeans that came here...poor
>>>>>> white trash, potato famers, religious fanatics that drove their
>>>>>> neighbors crazy, kids coming out of their ass, a dozen at a time.
>>>>> You mean the same white europeans that came here,worked hard
>>
>>>> Plenty of them never did work hard, and plenty of them did lots of
>>>> crime too.
>>
>>>>> and built the best country on the planet?
>>
>>>> Pure fantasy.
>>
>>> What country is better?
>>
>> Depends on what measure you use.
>>
>> Plenty are a lot safer, with a much lower murder rate etc.
>>
>> All modern first world countrys have a better way of handling health
>> care costs.
>>
>> Quite a few dont have a legal system that has been off the rails for
>> centurys now.
>>
>> Etc etc etc.
>
> Yea... Freedom sucks sometimes.

Nothing to do with freedom. In fact the very high murder rate in the
US is actually due mostly to the ex slaves and their descendants.

> If you're willing to sell some of it away you can live in what you think is a better country.

You have absolutely no idea what I think is a better country.

> You didn't answer the question though.

Yes I did.

> What country?

Depends on what measure you use, as I said.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 11:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Mrs Irish Mike wrote:
> On May 18, 11:10 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yer Pal Al wrote:
>>> On May 18, 9:39 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On May 18, 11:16 am, Yer Pal Al <caddyshack...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On May 18, 6:53 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> On May 18, 8:22 am, tripletask@gmail..com wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 21:16:45 -0700, *USA* <sanj...@here.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet.
>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>> should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
>>>>>>>> Independent.
>>
>>>>>>>>> From a California school teacher - - -
>>
>>>>>>>>> "As you listen to the news about the student protests over
>>>>>>>>> illegal
>>>>>>>> immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
>>>>>>>>> I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department
>>>>>>>>> at a
>>>>>>>> large southern California high school which is designated a
>>>>>>>> Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower
>>>>>>>> socioeconomic and income levels.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High,
>>>>>>>>> Bell
>>>>>>>> Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are
>>>>>>>> protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
>>>>>>>>> Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch
>>>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>>> When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and
>>>>>>>> roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and
>>>>>>>> juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food
>>>>>>>> is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the
>>>>>>>> trash uneaten.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or
>>>>>>>>> at least
>>>>>>>> moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
>>>>>>>> The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage
>>>>>>>> pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class
>>>>>>>> without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters
>>>>>>>> or having family watch their kids.
>>>>>>>>> I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk
>>>>>>>>> losing
>>>>>>>> funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need
>>>>>>>> for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up
>>>>>>>> buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of
>>>>>>>> which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the
>>>>>>>> appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful
>>>>>>>> to have a free education in America.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
>>>>>>>> teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant
>>>>>>>> students, here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so
>>>>>>>> much hell with the female teachers, calling them
>>>>>>>> "Putas"(whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in
>>>>>>>> tears.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc.,
>>>>>>>>> etc,
>>>>>>>> etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this
>>>>>>>> country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
>>
>>>>>>>>> To those who want to point out how much these illegal
>>>>>>>>> immigrants
>>>>>>>> contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
>>>>>>>> housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some
>>>>>>>> time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE
>>>>>>>> costs.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical
>>>>>>>>> costs,
>>>>>>>> more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,
>>>>>>>> overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Americans, We need to wake up.
>>
>>>>>>>>> It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It
>>>>>>>>> involves an
>>>>>>>> American third-world culture that does not value education,
>>>>>>>> that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of
>>>>>>>> school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American
>>>>>>>> culture that has become so weak and worried about "political
>>>>>>>> correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
>>>>>>>> everyone you know.
>>
>>>>>>>>> CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is
>>>>>>>>> about?
>>>>>>>> Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. Consumers don't
>>>>>>>> want expensive produce.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs. But
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth,
>>>>>>>> a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
>>
>>>>>>>>> Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five
>>>>>>>>> children. He
>>>>>>>> takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
>>>>>>>> dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year,
>>>>>>>> if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income
>>>>>>>> credit" of up to $3,200 free.
>>
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for food stamps.
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
>>>>>>>>> His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
>>>>>>>>> He requires bilingual teachers and books.
>>>>>>>>> He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
>>>>>>>>> If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify
>>>>>>>>> for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare.
>>
>>>>>>>>> All of this is at (OUR) taxpayer's expense.
>>>>>>>>> He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
>>>>>>>>> homeowners insurance. Taxpayers provide Spanish language
>>>>>>>>> signs, bulletins and printed material. He and his family
>>>>>>>>> receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left
>>>>>>>>> after paying their bills AND his. Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
>>>>>>>>> THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE
>>>>>>>>> CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY.
>>
>>>>>>>>> AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD
>>>>>>>>> REPLACE THEM.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration
>>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>> is to be considered in 2010. This is important to working
>>>>>>>> Americans, our economy and our American culture and heritage..
>>
>>>>>>>>> Grace Gan
>>>>>>>>> Ukiah Unified School District
>>>>>>>>> 925 N. State St.
>>>>>>>>> Ukiah, CA 95482
>>
>>>>>>> These IQ 85 invaders are an obsolete people who have been
>>>>>>> encouraged to cross the border. They are the dregs of central
>>>>>>> America, their homelands are glad to rid of them. Do you want
>>>>>>> them here?
>>
>>>>>>> cole- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>>>>> That describes 95% of the white Europeans that came here...poor
>>>>>> white trash, potato famers, religious fanatics that drove their
>>>>>> neighbors crazy, kids coming out of their ass, a dozen at a time.
>>
>>>>> A huge difference is that the Europeans who came here came here
>>>>> legally and wanted to become Americanized.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> So you would love to believe. What is a WOP..why is a WOP...WITH
>>>> OUT PAPERS...
>>
>> Nope.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wop
>>
>>> BS. It comes from the word "guap" and "without" is one word.
>>
>>>> tons of Italians and Sicilians who came over cause their
>>>> brother came here or their uncle , some had papers some didn't and
>>>> it
>>>> drove the Immigration people nuts..since half the house was legal
>>>> and
>>>> the other house not.
>>> Illegal immigration wasn't a problem until the 2nd half of the 20th
>>> century
>>
>> Yes, when america changed who was allowed in legally.
>>
>>> when started giving away freebees.
>>
>> Nope. There were plenty of mexican legals before that, most
>> obviously with harvest labor.

> Right. The problems started when employers were
> allowed to hire illegal aliens without fear of prosecution.

Nope, that was always the case.

> The demand for labor remained the same,

No they didnt. There were in fact times when the demand for labor
was so poor that quite a few of the legals actually suicided, essentially
because there was no way back to where they came from.

> but the supply increased.

And the unemployment rate bottomed at 4.x% with an immense
legal and illegal immigration rate, and the participation rate at
an all time historic high, just before the clowns were allowed
to completely implode the entire world financial system, again.

> We could imprison and deport 12 million people,

There is no way to know how many illegals there are, by definition.

> braking up families

Not sure that would put a brake on familys. It isnt even clear if many familys
would be broken up either compared with what the illegal immigration did.

> and disrupt the lives of the poor at great costs. Or we could
> imprison a few CEOs for allowing undocumented workers to work.

It aint the CEOs that do the recruiting in the larger operations.

> A few CEOs could write home about being gang butt raped
> and the practice of hiring illegals would stop mucho rapido.

Bet it wouldnt.

> No jobs, no illegal workers.

There will always be jobs in operations with no CEOs.

You planning to jail everyone who employs an illegal to mow their
lawn or wash the car or get some work done on the house etc too ?

Cant see that any party stupid enough to go that route would last long electorally.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal long lasting hobbies?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/178000967986c5d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 19 2010 9:56 am
From: Thomas

Geocaching. It is satellite treasure hunting.

Visit geocaching.com

It is a very addictive, healthy AND frugal hobbie.

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Thursday, May 20, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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