Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much does it cost you to live a day in your life?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4df06601e0a3cd77?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 5:29 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

val189 wrote:
>> "val189" <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
...
>>> A better question might be - what did you spend per person per day
>>> last year? And where could you cut?
>
> Well, fer shur - entertainment would be eliminated entirely in my
> barebones existence.

There are all kinds of entertainment and they don't all cost money.
Certainly things like drinking, drugs, hookers and bad Hollywood
movies are all expensive forms of entertainment but dancing,
singing off-tune and watching the neighbors fight are all free.

Anthony

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:53 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Rod Speed wrote:
> Few have a clue idea about how much taxes they do pay per day.

I'm always perplexed when people from the UK complain about what
a hassle it is that in the USA, sales tax (or VAT, in rightpondian
lingo) isn't automatically included in the listed price, and you
have to do the arithmetic yourself. To me, including the tax in
the listed price seems like a great way to reduce the visibility of
the taxes, so that you eventually almost forget that you're paying
taxes at all[1]. This is such an odious idea to me that I can't
comprehend why anyone would think it better than having to do math
in your head.

It would be entertaining to get a grant (paid for out of tax money,
of course!) to study this. One could ask a number of residents of
various countries what their sales tax rate is, then find the
average time to give a correct response, as well as the percentage
of people who do give a correct response eventually. It would be
interesting to see if there is any quantitative evidence of a
correlation between whether or not taxes are included in posted
prices and how aware residents are of the tax rate.

- Logan

[1] and wouldn't be able to easily distinguish between the
vendor raising prices and the government raising taxes

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 11:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Few have a clue idea about how much taxes they do pay per day.

> I'm always perplexed when people from the UK complain about what
> a hassle it is that in the USA, sales tax (or VAT, in rightpondian lingo)

A VAT is quite different in detail to a sales tax.

> isn't automatically included in the listed price, and you have to do the arithmetic yourself.

Yes, most prefer to see what they will pay in total.

> To me, including the tax in the listed price seems like a great way to reduce the visibility of the taxes,

Corse it is.

> so that you eventually almost forget that you're paying taxes at all[1].

That last is pure fantasy. No one who operates in a system like that is
ever stupid enough to forget that they are paying lots of money in taxes.

> This is such an odious idea to me that I can't comprehend why anyone would think it better than having to do math in
> your head.

Maybe its because that last is just your fantasy and no one ever
is silly enough to think that they arent paying any taxes at all.

> It would be entertaining to get a grant (paid for out of tax money,
> of course!) to study this. One could ask a number of residents of
> various countries what their sales tax rate is, then find the average time to give a correct response, as well as the
> percentage of people who do give a correct response eventually.

Different matter entirely to your mindlessly silly idea that anyone
but the village idiot would ever forget that they're paying taxes.

> It would be interesting to see if there is any quantitative evidence of a correlation between whether or not taxes are
> included in posted prices and how aware residents are of the tax rate.

Pity that the USA has exactly the same system with renters
who arent aware of exactly how much of their rent is going
in property taxes that the landlord has to pay to the govt etc.

> [1] and wouldn't be able to easily distinguish between the
> vendor raising prices and the government raising taxes

There's always a massive stink when any govt raises the VAT rate.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Designer Louis Vuitton Bags & Purese
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a5cf6c9d4703dc16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 6:09 pm
From: ce91f787a@21cn.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is the average annual cost of owning a car if paying cash in lump
sum in the beginning?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5aac132998391837?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 6:32 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dave L <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>> Nope, not at all. I don't put an enormous amount of miles a year on my car, but it's nowhere under 5k! From
>>>>>>> experience, there comes a time when unpredictable maintenance costs start adding up.

>>>>>> Depends entirely on how carefully you choose the car that doesnt
>>>>>> get that result.

>>>>> I have all of the regular maintenance done. Sometimes strange
>>>>> things start going bad, such as a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and
>>>>> the speedometer stops working. A clutch slave cylinder going
>>>>> bad. A master cylinder "washer" going bad, and they thought it
>>>>> was the master cylinder! Dealer ordered the part and was in
>>>>> there to replace it, and discovered it was only a worn washer. BTW - this was on an '89 Honda Prelude, and started
>>>>> happening
>>>>> around '04-'05. So still - wear and tear along with age, and will
>>>>> happen to any car. Just depends how long it takes.

>>>> The point tho is that with a well designed car chosen for its long life, you
>>>> can find that you only have a couple of very trivial repairs to do in 30+ years.

>>>> In my case it was just one alternator regulator.

>>>>>>>>> Don't want to be stuck hundreds of miles away from
>>>>>>>>> home, on a holiday weekend or in the middle of the night :-)

>>>>>>>> And its just convenient not to have to fart around repairing stuff too.

>>>>>>> Exactly. The inconvenience of having to get the part to fix it
>>>>>>> yourself or have someone else fix it. Happens at the most
>>>>>>> inopportune time as well.

>>>>>>>>> Especially for those who need to do the driving for their job
>>>>>>>>> (fortunately I don't with the exception of driving to work!).

>>>>>>>>> Of course, if bought new you'll know the maintenance you did
>>>>>>>>> to the car without wondering how the previous owner took care
>>>>>>>>> of it. Then again, 3,500-4,000 miles are low.

>>>>>>>> Doesnt necessarily have that much effect on maintenance tho.

>>>>>>> Nope. Mainly peace of mind.

>>>>>> It isnt peace of mind either once you realise that maintenance isnt that important with
>>>>>> modern cars as long as you do the basics like change the timing belt when required etc.

>>>>> Exactly. Modern cars. When you have an old used car, it cannot
>>>>> be considered "modern" anymore can it?

>>>> Yes it can when the design was something that hasnt been improved
>>>> on with the latest cars.

>>> Doesn't make it modern.

>> Yes it does. Nothing much has changed in the design of cars over that time with the cars that were the bleeding edge
>> of design at the time they were built.

>> The only real chance since then has been the anti pollution
>> stuff and that doesnt have a big effect on the useful life of a car.

>> Particularly with european cars, they were well ahead of the crap at that time design wise.

> "old used car, it cannot be considered "modern" anymore" - Hmm...
> "old" and "modern". Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me.

More fool you. I told you why it isnt.

> You didn't mention efficiency, safety and reliability.

Yes, but it had all of that anyway. Still does, I've still got it even tho I've replaced it.

> Reliability has a big effect on the useful life of a car.

And like I said reliability was never a problem in 30+ years.

Even the alternator regulator was just a nuisance, it didnt make the
car unusable and it was completely trivial to replace that myself.

Dead obvious what the problem was, trivial to change it myself.

>>>>> I consider myself more vigilant of maintenance than the "average" person I've seen.

>>>> Yes, and you have basically wasted your money doing that.

>>> Take care of my car and it'll take care of me.

>> Mindless sloganeering aint rational engineering.

> No. But this works.

So does changing the oil at the rate the manufacturer says it needs
to be changed, and using a decent modern synthetic oil when you do.

> Engineers will still tell you preventative maintenance works.

They dont say that changing a modern synthetic oil at a higher rate than
the manufacturer specifys does a damned thing except waste your money.

> They're the ones who did the maintenance schedule...

You're the one who ignores that and changes the oil at a higher rate pointlessly.

> well, maybe the sales and marketing people had some input too.

Corse they did.

>>> I don't do 3k oil changes but also won't do the 10k my manual says for "normal" driving.

>> More fool you if you use modern synthetic oils.

> Huh?

If you use modern synthetic oils, the manufacturer's oil change rate is fine.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Computer keyboard which is super-quiet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/71149e3b4356aa28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 6:38 pm
From: Warren Block

Lou <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Seems to me there'd be no quieter keyboard than no keyboard - see
> http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/ - no, I have no connection with these
> people.

I've seen that on the net for several years, but reports of actual use
are rare. It's expensive, and no key feedback, either, which might be a
problem.

A cheaper alternative would be one of the roll-up keyboards. Typing on
them is not going to be great, but they are quiet:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10809&cs_id=1080903&p_id=3046&seq=1&format=2

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:14 pm
From: "Dave"

> <snip>
>
>> Only downside is some touch-typists might not like it. I know many touch
>> typists that don't like notebook style keyboards. But I type just as
>> fast
>> on this keyboard as I do on any other.
>
> And out of curiosity, how fast is that?
>
>

Not that it matters, but the only time I was tested, I scored 90WPM with 0%
error rate. I could have typed faster, but I was deliberately aiming for no
errors. I say it doesn't matter, as I never did any clerical work, where
anybody would have given a damn about how fast I type. But I did test for
one job which (among other things) required typing skills. Didn't get the
job, but my typing was much better than most, or so I was told...

Decades of IT work have exposed me to many types of keyboards. I actually
learned to type on MANUAL typewriters, got most of my practice on selectrics
(if you don't remember those, that just means you are younger than dirt, ha
ha). So I was very used to really SOLID feeling keyboards. It took a
little time to get used to the feel of notebook-style keyboards, but I
eventually got as comfortable with them as any other keyboard.

IMHO, qwerty is qwerty. But I do understand why some touch typists don't
like notebook style keyboards. It does take some getting used to, if you
are experienced with more solid feeling keyboards with more tactile
feedback. I love my backlit board. I almost bought one for work, also
(while I was still doing IT work). Thought about it from time to time, but
the Dell something or other that came with the workstation wasn't too evil.
:) -Dave

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:31 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 24, 12:19 am, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> <aesthe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1aeff414-6f5b-4891-939c-fc2ec3e86545@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Any recommendations?
>
> Get a backlit one. Essentially, they take a notebook style keyboard (soft
> touch, short stroke) with semi-transparent plastic keys, put a light under
> the keys...
>
> Oh, you don't have to use the backlight unless you want to (you can turn
> that off). But, you might like it. The one we use is a Zippy EL-715. They
> come with white, black and silver cases, I believe. (the one we own is
> black) We've had it a couple of years, use it heavily, no problems at all.
> A link to a white one follows, just so you can see what I'm referring to.http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?item=79624
> I just noticed the description even says that it is super quiet. I can
> confirm it is super quiet. Not silent, but super quiet compared to most
> keyboards.
>
> Only downside is some touch-typists might not like it. I know many touch
> typists that don't like notebook style keyboards. But I type just as fast
> on this keyboard as I do on any other. If it's quiet you are after, The
> Zippy EL-715 is a good choice.
>
> But I suspect you'd find any backlit keyboard will be very quiet, because
> they use notebook or membrane type "switches" to allow thin keys to allow
> the light to shine through them. This makes them very quiet compared to any
> ordinary computer keyboard. -Dave
>
> Here's a similar one I found, without backlight:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823128028

Anybody have a backlit with a RED backlight light waterproof keyboard?

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Seen those coupons for a Quizno's "Low Cal' Flatbread Sandwich? Think
Again
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/90037a1f4ea09ec6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 6:49 pm
From: Dave

On Jan 25, 9:08 am, KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop
<kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 4:31 pm, William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > I recently read they have a new CEO who is trying to turn things
> > around. So far his biggest move is to limit coupons to 4 times a year
> > rather than almost every other week.
> > It seems when customers see a coupon regularly they stop going when
> > it is not there. He is hoping that after a few weeks they will give in.
> > Might work, on the other hand they might just wait, something I used to
> > do with Boston Market when there was one near my office.
>
> A Quiznos opened near where I worked a few years ago. Co-workers would
> on occasion use the coupons to get food there. They often remarked
> how expensive the place was. No surprise that it closed down after
> less than a year in business. Maybe the steep lease rent was what did
> them in there. I just could not see spending $8 for a sandwich and
> small bag of chips and drink. No way.

I guess the question would be "what is expensive", because their
current deal is to show a giant sandwich and then offer something that
is, quite literally, three bites for $2. So, is a $2 sandwich which
should cost $1 any "cheaper?" Not really!

Dave

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:17 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 24, 4:03 pm, Dave <djense...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 7:31 am, William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dave wrote:
> > > As everyone knows, the USA has a lot of weight to lose. Most of it
> > > stems from the fast food society, a culture that we seem bent on
> > > exporting throughout the world. This does no one any good.
>
> > > I think it is a SHAM the way that certain fast food corporations treat
> > > the consumer who is trying to eat healthy. Let's use Quizno's as an
> > > example of what I mean here.
>
> > > I'm sure you've been to one of these restaurants. It's basically a
> > > Subway with a toaster in the middle, and the sandwiches taste
> > > relatively good although they have been criticized for the excessive
> > > calories and fat count in most of their sandwiches. And, of course, it
> > > goes without saying that they really push their side orders of chips
> > > and large soda drinks as well.
>
> > > But I personally never felt bad about Quizno's until their recent
> > > round of advertising. They are now pushing a flatbread sandwich they
> > > call the "Sammie." Have you seen these ads? The photographs are
> > > guaranteed to get you into their franchises, especially if you are
> > > watching calories and trying to eat healthy. There's a photo in your
> > > Sunday paper of a Sammie Grilled Chicken Balsamic sandwich . . . the
> > > sandwich is literally bursting at the seams, stuffed with 12 or 13
> > > visible chunks of grilled chicken, a ton of lettuce and tomato, and
> > > right above it -- in giant letters -- ONLY 200 CALORIES.
>
> > > That, my friends, is one of the most blatant shams I've seen in a long
> > > time.
>
> > > The ad drew me into my local Quizno's franchise, where I ordered the
> > > above sandwich and then sat there in disbelief looking at the tiny
> > > little thing that I was served. Yes, the sandwich you GET might be
> > > only 200 calories. The guy making the Sammie used what appeared to be
> > > a teaspoon to dole out one level spoonful of a lettuce and tomato mix,
> > > on top of what were 6 or 7 small bites of chicken. All of it very
> > > carefully measured onto a tiny round piece of bread. (The sodium
> > > content of the balsamic dressing was off the charts, giving this
> > > little appetizer sized "meal" an overly-salty and unhealthy flavor.)
>
> > > I'm a consumer advocate, so I called the 800 number on the door of my
> > > franchise with a complaint. Oddly, the number was right below a giant
> > > photo of the sandwich I was eating - or, I should say, the sandwich I
> > > THOUGHT I'd be eating.
>
> > > They have "never gotten a complaint about this before" according to
> > > the Quizno's representative I spoke with. When I later spoke to the
> > > franchise owner, he told me that he hears this same concern from
> > > everyone, and agrees 100% with me that this is unorthodox advertising.
>
> > > Looking for truly healthy and low-cal food in a fast food restaurant?
> > > Look further than Quizno's. Those folks are false advertisers, at
> > > best.
>
> > > Dave
>
> > > Full text article above extracted fromhttp://shamvswham.blogspot.com/
>
> > I recently read they have a new CEO who is trying to turn things
> > around. So far his biggest move is to limit coupons to 4 times a year
> > rather than almost every other week.
> > It seems when customers see a coupon regularly they stop going when
> > it is not there. He is hoping that after a few weeks they will give in.
> > Might work, on the other hand they might just wait, something I used to
> > do with Boston Market when there was one near my office.
>
> Thanks William, that may explain it. I think the new CEO hired a new
> advertising agency, one with absolutely no scruples,
>
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The old marketing firm had scruples?

If you thought that you need to reexamine the old ads...they were just
as bad.

TMT

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:19 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 24, 8:49 pm, Dave <djense...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 9:08 am, KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop
>
>
>
>
>
> <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 4:31 pm, William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > > I recently read they have a new CEO who is trying to turn things
> > > around. So far his biggest move is to limit coupons to 4 times a year
> > > rather than almost every other week.
> > > It seems when customers see a coupon regularly they stop going when
> > > it is not there. He is hoping that after a few weeks they will give in.
> > > Might work, on the other hand they might just wait, something I used to
> > > do with Boston Market when there was one near my office.
>
> > A Quiznos opened near where I worked a few years ago. Co-workers would
> > on occasion use the coupons to get food there. They often remarked
> > how expensive the place was. No surprise that it closed down after
> > less than a year in business. Maybe the steep lease rent was what did
> > them in there. I just could not see spending $8 for a sandwich and
> > small bag of chips and drink. No way.
>
> I guess the question would be "what is expensive", because their
> current deal is to show a giant sandwich and then offer something that
> is, quite literally, three bites for $2. So, is a $2 sandwich which
> should cost $1 any "cheaper?" Not really!
>
> Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

A suggestion....when you are handed the Mimi Me sandwich...point to
the picture on the wall and tell that is what you ordered...and then
demand you get what they advertixe.

If more people did that, this sham would not continue.

TMT

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:20 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 24, 2:37 pm, Dave <djense...@cox.net> wrote:
> As everyone knows, the USA has a lot of weight to lose. Most of it
> stems from the fast food society, a culture that we seem bent on
> exporting throughout the world. This does no one any good.
>
> I think it is a SHAM the way that certain fast food corporations treat
> the consumer who is trying to eat healthy. Let's use Quizno's as an
> example of what I mean here.
>
> I'm sure you've been to one of these restaurants. It's basically a
> Subway with a toaster in the middle, and the sandwiches taste
> relatively good although they have been criticized for the excessive
> calories and fat count in most of their sandwiches. And, of course, it
> goes without saying that they really push their side orders of chips
> and large soda drinks as well.
>
> But I personally never felt bad about Quizno's until their recent
> round of advertising. They are now pushing a flatbread sandwich they
> call the "Sammie." Have you seen these ads? The photographs are
> guaranteed to get you into their franchises, especially if you are
> watching calories and trying to eat healthy. There's a photo in your
> Sunday paper of a Sammie Grilled Chicken Balsamic sandwich . . . the
> sandwich is literally bursting at the seams, stuffed with 12 or 13
> visible chunks of grilled chicken, a ton of lettuce and tomato, and
> right above it -- in giant letters -- ONLY 200 CALORIES.
>
> That, my friends, is one of the most blatant shams I've seen in a long
> time.
>
> The ad drew me into my local Quizno's franchise, where I ordered the
> above sandwich and then sat there in disbelief looking at the tiny
> little thing that I was served. Yes, the sandwich you GET might be
> only 200 calories. The guy making the Sammie used what appeared to be
> a teaspoon to dole out one level spoonful of a lettuce and tomato mix,
> on top of what were 6 or 7 small bites of chicken. All of it very
> carefully measured onto a tiny round piece of bread. (The sodium
> content of the balsamic dressing was off the charts, giving this
> little appetizer sized "meal" an overly-salty and unhealthy flavor.)
>
> I'm a consumer advocate, so I called the 800 number on the door of my
> franchise with a complaint. Oddly, the number was right below a giant
> photo of the sandwich I was eating - or, I should say, the sandwich I
> THOUGHT I'd be eating.
>
> They have "never gotten a complaint about this before" according to
> the Quizno's representative I spoke with. When I later spoke to the
> franchise owner, he told me that he hears this same concern from
> everyone, and agrees 100% with me that this is unorthodox advertising.
>
> Looking for truly healthy and low-cal food in a fast food restaurant?
> Look further than Quizno's. Those folks are false advertisers, at
> best.
>
> Dave
>
> Full text article above extracted fromhttp://shamvswham.blogspot.com/

Welcome to the probusiness world that Bush loves.

The customer means nothing...profits are king...at your expense.

And wait till inflation starts kicking big time during this
recession...you will consider your current sandwich a bargain.

TMT

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:23 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

Dave...it just occurred to me...are you complaining about the too
expensive sandwich OR not getting a sandwich as pictured OR not
getting a sandwich as pictured that has 200 calories?

You might also want to point out to the owner that is not forced to
post the picture of the sandwich.

And that he can charge you what the sandwich is actually worth. ;<)

TMT

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:25 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 24, 5:08 pm, KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop
<kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 4:31 pm, William Souden <sou...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > I recently read they have a new CEO who is trying to turn things
> > around. So far his biggest move is to limit coupons to 4 times a year
> > rather than almost every other week.
> > It seems when customers see a coupon regularly they stop going when
> > it is not there. He is hoping that after a few weeks they will give in.
> > Might work, on the other hand they might just wait, something I used to
> > do with Boston Market when there was one near my office.
>
> A Quiznos opened near where I worked a few years ago. Co-workers would
> on occasion use the coupons to get food there. They often remarked
> how expensive the place was. No surprise that it closed down after
> less than a year in business. Maybe the steep lease rent was what did
> them in there. I just could not see spending $8 for a sandwich and
> small bag of chips and drink. No way.

Quiznos has been having a tough time...their price/value has always
been poor.

With the upcoming recession, they are going to get creamed.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Amana Air Command 80 Gas Fired Furnace (4 blinks) troubleshooting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/94746b0668e8b6e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 7:38 pm
From: Bubba

Donna,
No offense but after reading all your posts you DO seem quite the hard
head. You've had no maintenance what so ever done in seven years, you
run your furnace till the filters are clogged solid and now you want a
quick fix. Do you change the oil in your car/s? Do you go for regular
doctor and dental check ups? Furnaces need regular maintenance.
It is your job to change the filters. Now listen real carefully
because I have a big secret to tell you.
If you and everyone like you changed your filters with a quality
filter on a regular basis I would have very little to do. From your
posts you need to change the filter and let the technician do the
rest.
Bubba

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:49:03 -0700, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer
Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:55:07 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:
>> You said before you sucked a hose and the switch for positive venting
>> worked.
>
>Yes. What is happening now is different than what at first happened.
>
>FIRST (three blinking lights)
>- The smaller motor (which, thanks to this newsgroup, I belatedly realize
>is the combustion air venting motor) wasn't spinning - while the larger
>motor (which by the process of elimination is the air circulation blower)
>was constantly spinning. Perhaps the "limit" (which I take to be a sensor
>that shuts things off when it senses something amiss) kicked in for the air
>vent.
>
>NOW (four blinking lights)
>- I can get the furnace to work for an hour, two or three, but, eventually
>the four blinking lights go on indicating one of the two "limits" have been
>breached. The two motors (the smaller combustion venting motor and the
>larger air circulation blower) remain running but the gas shuts off so the
>flame goes out.
>
>A service technician I called said it's 100 bucks to go out to see it so I
>have him scheduled for Saturday (the earliest he could get here). Until
>then, I want to learn what MAINTENANCE I could/should do.
>
>Where can I get a PICTURE of the maintenance I should do until then?
>Please advise!
>Thanks,
>Donna

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 10:52 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

From what you've described, your inducer fan needs to be replaced. Gonna be
a job for the service tech.

Buy a portable heater?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:VH3mj.340$xq2.261@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:18:07 -0500, Shawn Hirn wrote:
> Call a professional heating
> and repair person to fix the problem.

I did. He'll be out here on Saturday. Isn't there ANY maintenance a
homeowner can do themselves?

I'm sure, from the symptoms, that the "limits" kicked in, probably due to
some problem with air circulation.

Besides the filter (which was very dirty but I replaced it yesterday), what
other maintenance can I do.

For example, someone said clean the A/C coils ... but WHERE ARE THEY?

The furnace is in a tiny closet. The AC fan is outside the house.

Donna

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 10:51 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

She said the small fan wasn't running.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:aochp3hhpg661h0avfrvf6u10q1lv0hdee@4ax.com...

You said before you sucked a hose and the switch for positive venting
worked.
You didn't say if the venting motor was even starting up.
You might get help from the HVAC guys, but you have to be clear on the
steps you're taking, and exactly what's happening at start-up.
Just make sure you don't try to bypass any of the start-up features.
Very dangerous.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plastic grocery bag debate question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76c040c2f7b9f6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 7:57 pm
From: John Savage

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> writes:
>Our city has finally
>allowed these bags to be put into the recycle bin; right now I have a
>HUGE bag that's holding these smaller ones.

Just when yours allows it, another stops it:

Linkname: My local council has told us to stop putting plastic carrier
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/questions/question/985/

Summary: the presence of even one biodegradable bag ruins the lot as
far as the recycler is concerned.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaning a Wool Shirt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f87b9ec30e59c5d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:15 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> I'd suggest some more interent research. As I remember, it's the clothes
> dryer that shrinks wool. Line dried might work.

And the agitation in the washer could cause the wool to felt.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:16 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> Yup, the OP should just buy a bottle of Woolite and follow the
> directions on the package.

Not Woolite! It has bleach in it. Use shampoo.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.movingcompanies.co.il
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c565342712bae094?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:42 pm
From: linkswanted

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are your trusted source. World Moving & Storage is bonded and licensed
by the U.S. Department of Transportation and is one of the largest
residential moving and corporate relocation company in the country,
providing moving services to New York, Florida, California, and all
cities points between, 48 US states.

We are committed to ethical moving services business with more than 12
years of experience in the moving and relocation services industries,
long distance moving, local moving and oversea moving, World Moving &
Storage has the experience you need to get the job done -- and done
right.
When it comes time to move, whether it be for yourself or for an
entire company, you want someone you can trust.
Experience pays off! Our experience can save you hundreds, if not
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to meet your needs -- that means every move is customized for, not all
moves are identical .

Put an unmatched movers to work for you. Local, long distance,
corporate, overseas transfers, even boat or auto transport.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Moving Companies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e844eb14db49b933?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 8:43 pm
From: linkswanted

Put an unmatched movers to work for you. Local, long distance,
corporate, overseas transfers, even boat or auto transport.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why do people stay in overpriced real estate markets?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56d80a4d61e1222e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 11:33 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Cindy Hamilton" <angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1393eb3d-9a16-4592-8a8b-c0c0d427086c@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 18, 3:59 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:

>> Cindy, replying to spammers just encourages them. Better to set your
>> filters to avoid gmail addresses, and never quote their message
>> including the website they want to promote.

>I didn't know that Google Groups provides filters... I'll have to
>poke around
>the interface.

>Cindy Hamilton

If you do as he says, you'll miss a lot of helpful posts.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 24 2008 11:35 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ae31bb20-8276-4270-885d-9754c24498d2@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 15, 7:15 pm, KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop
<kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 15, 7:59 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A vested interest does not mean the best interest for the buyer.
>
> > Remember this whenever you are the buyer and it will serve you well.
>
> > TMT
>
> Classic example was when Bush issued us taxpayers those tax refund
> checks in 2001. The Home Depot ran ads on radio reminding folks that
> they could spend those refunds at the HD. I kid you not. The other
> best interest served was you got financing options for purchases over
> $299 I believe. The refund checks were for $300 if memory serves me
> right.

Good example.

I was SHOCKED to hear our idiot President to publicly state that
consumers should SPEND - SPEND - SPEND shortly after 9/11.

That is when I realized we had an idiot in the White House.

The sub prime crash is proving this opinion to be correct.

The next check you get from Washington in their latest quick fix
should be saved ....when you are thrown out of your house you will
need that money for food.

******************************************88

Thereby defeating the whole purpose of the check.

==============================================================================

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Friday, January 25, 2008

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