Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Resurgence of telemarketers and telephishers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/132159bd102f1747?hl=en
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== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 10:38 am
From: George Grapman

Speaking of focus groups and since this is a frugal living group the
local craigslist jobs often have them under the "ETC" category. Even if
you do not qualify they will keep you on file and contact you down the
road. I have been spoiled by enough decent paying ones that I will not
do any for less than $75 an hour.
Also, they over book so two times I was sent home with a check without
participating. Once I arrived 15 minutes early , had the sandwiches and
coffee that they offered and was sent home. The receptionist apologized.
I told her anytime that she wanted to pay me $100 to eat some food and
leave I would be happy to oblige.
Getting back to telemarketers the only surveys I will do are public
opinion polls and I hang up if they turn out to be push polls. When it
is a consumer survey I ask if I will be paid. When they sat "no" I ask
if the caller is being paid and if the survey firm is being paid. I then
politely tell them that I see no reason to donate my time to a for
profit endeavor.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 10:44 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote...

> It was not right, fair, or proper for those customers to be abusing me for
> something that was not my fault. Neither is it right, proper, or fair for you
> to abuse the telemarketer who calls you for something that is not their fault.

Bad analogy.

YOU were not the one who took the newspaper job, so YOU were not responsible for
its proper fulfillment.

OTOH, the telemarketer IS the one responsible for the proper fulfillment of his
job. It would only take a simple question and a minute or 2 of listening during
the job interview to determine whether the employer was properly screening the
call list.

> And if you were smart enough to get out of the telemarketing job, more power
> to you. Not everybody has those options.

Wrong again! EVERYBODY has the option of leaving their jobs! It may be a
difficult decision to leave what is perceived to be the "only" available job
because of improprieties or illegalities, but the option still exists. A
telemarketer who continues to work under those conditions is as responsible as
his employer.

> --
> Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your work
> with excellence.

Great platitude; sounds like you don't really believe it, though...

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 10:55 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote...
>> You dont have to pay for it, anyone with a clue can
>> find a decent job when the unemployment rate is 4.x%
>
> Not in my area. It's hard for anybody to get a "starter job" around here
> because all the immigrants, legal or il-, have them all snapped up.

BS!

I cannot believe that "anybody" who really WANTS to get a job cannot get one
that is sought after by an illegal immigrant. More likely, "anybody" is
UNWILLING to work for the wages paid to the immigrants, legal or illegal.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 10:49 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote...
> The person calling you on the phone is not legally responsible.

I see... So you contend that as long as a telemarketer is not subject to jail
time for his illegal or improper actions on the behalf of his employer, it's OK
to continue?

Also, are you sure that a telemarketer who KNOWINGLY makes calls to DNC list
numbers is not responsible?

> And it is possible to "defend yourself" just by telling them you are not
> interested or just to hang up the phone nicely when you hear that it's a
> telemarketer without ladling a whole heap of abuse on the poor person calling
> you on the phone.

It is possible, but not necessary. I submit that I can use ANY appropriate
means to "defend myself" against a criminal or agent of a criminal.

By your own logic, it is not illegal for me to "heap abuse" on the telemarketer,
so it's OK for me to do it.
.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 11:09 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Melinda Meahan <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote

> Excuse me, but are you really saying that whether someone is legally
> liable for something has no bearing to whether they would be prosecuted for the crime?

Nope. I am saying that it makes more sense to prosecute the employer
to make it change its activity than to prosecute the monkey when the
employer can just get another monkey if that monkey stops doing that
work because its been prosecuted for doing that illegal activity.

Just like any operation with a clue prosecutes the drug
dealers and doesnt waste their time on the end users.

> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net>
>> wrote:
>>> sfgeorge@paccbell.net wrote:
>>>> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
>>>>> The person calling you on the phone is not legally responsible.
>>>> That is like saying that if someone asks you to bring a package
>>>> over the border you are not responsible for determining the
>>>> contents. As another poster noted once a few people have mentioned
>>>> to Do Not Call law you have been made ware that the law is being
>>>> broken.
>>> No, it's not. If you prosecute, the person who is talking on the
>>> phone is merely a pawn and will not be prosecuted for what they did;
>>> only the company who authorized it to be done.
>>
>> Irrelevant to whether the monkey is involved in illegal activity.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 11:17 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Melinda Meahan <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Melinda Meahan <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote
>>> sarge137 wrote:

>>>> Oh please! It's 2008 - anyone without job skills is stupid and lazy, not worth my sympathy.

>>> I guess this is more the problem than the people telemarketing,
>>> because your statement is totally untrue. Not that SOME people
>>> without job skills might not be, but there are still lots of people
>>> around who are handicapped by how and/or where they were raised and aren't fortunate enough to be able to pay for
>>> job training, and public schools are doing worse and worse these days.

>> You dont have to pay for it, anyone with a clue can
>> find a decent job when the unemployment rate is 4.x%

> Not in my area.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

Name the area and lets see if there is general agreement on your claim.

Bet there isnt.

> It's hard for anybody to get a "starter job" around here

I didnt say starter job.

> because all the immigrants, legal or il-, have them all snapped up.

So how did those manage to pay for the training that you claim is the only way to get those jobs ?

Those always have the disadvantage that the english often leaves a lot to be desired.

If you cant compete with those for decent jobs, there must be something wrong with you, like your attitudes etc.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:19 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Rod Speed wrote:
>
> Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.
>
> Name the area and lets see if there is general agreement on your claim.

San Francisco Bay Area, central Contra Costa County, and I speak of the
experiences of four children and a number of acquaintances.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:24 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

George Grapman wrote:
>
> Other times it was a secret. I did a mock trial on a tobacco law
> suit.During the "deliberations" the person running the group got into
> the face of those who sided with the plaintiff. I assumed the tobacco
> people were picking up the tab but then considered the possibility that
> he was playing devils advocate.

Could have been. It was certainly the party on one side of a lawsuit.

> One time the phone screens asked a bunch of questions. The last one was
> whether I was taking any prescription medications. When I said,no" she
> told me the good news was I was health but the bad news was I did not
> qualify.

ROTFL!!!!

The last two people who called me with surveys were (a) someone who was
calling from Nielsen (sp? the people who do tv program ratings) and
when they said that, I told them that we don't do network TV so I might
not be able to answer their survey, and they insisted that it didn't
matter that I didn't do network TV, so I said okay, and the first
question was what TV network did I watch most often, and (b) someone
calling from some market research survey place asking if I would take a
survey, and I answered, as I always do, that I will do it unless it's a
political survey, because I had to conduct too many manipulative and
deceptive political surveys during my short stint during my younger
years, and they insisted it was not a political survey, so I agreed to
do the survey, and the first question was how I felt about how the
President was doing his job, to which I replied that I was sorry, but
that was, too, a political survey and as I had already said, I would not
participate in a political survey.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:27 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

I have known people who were in desperate circumstances and had very few
work options and who were not lazy and/or st&pid. And no, not everybody
has the option of leaving their job. If you were a single parent with
several children, you wouldn't want your children to starve or to be
kicked out of the apartment that was so difficult to acquire because you
are a single parent with several children, and so leaving a lousy job
would not really be an option. I mean, sure you could quit, but at the
cost of your children suffering? If you were a good parent, flat-out
quitting would not be an option.

John Weiss wrote:

>> And if you were smart enough to get out of the telemarketing job, more power
>> to you. Not everybody has those options.
>
> Wrong again! EVERYBODY has the option of leaving their jobs! It may be a
> difficult decision to leave what is perceived to be the "only" available job
> because of improprieties or illegalities, but the option still exists. A
> telemarketer who continues to work under those conditions is as responsible as
> his employer.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:28 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

John Weiss wrote:
>
> Also, are you sure that a telemarketer who KNOWINGLY makes calls to DNC list
> numbers is not responsible?

Many, if not most, telemarketing companies have war dialers so you just
pick up the phone to talk to the next person. At least, all the ones I
have heard of do.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Economy Stimulus - Buy!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b029279ea6e8dd0?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 11:06 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote:

> Enlighten me.

Not even possible.

> How is a tax rebate check of the 300 dollars going
> to stimulate the economy out of a recession?

Because most spend that rebate and even someone as stupid as
you should have noticed that that has an effect on the economy.

> Since when have Americans no longer been
> considered "citizens" and are now just consumers?

About the same time you spent your entire 'life' with your dick in your hand.

> How is it that 300 bucks in the hands of low-income, middle-income and basically
> most Americans, is going to translate into jobs that are not outsourced,

Many jobs cant be outsourced. Pizzas are just a tad cold when they come from India or Mexico.

> universal health care,

That $300 has nothing to do with universal health care.

> businesses actually manufacturing goods,

Any modern first world economy is always about a hell of a lot more than just manufacturing goods.

> technology actually looking into alternative fuels,
> property taxes going down or being eliminated, etc, etc.

It isnt even possible to fix all the world's problems with $300 per taxpayer, stupid.

> It's not.

Must be one of those rocket scientist mindless eejuts.

> Remember when the "War for freedom for all repressed regimes, oops just Iraq"

Another bare faced lie. Pity about Afghanistan.

> was first waged and Americans were all advised to shop til you drop!

Another bare faced lie.

> Shouldn't Americans have conserved energy, and
> goods and been willing to pay more taxes instead?

Nope.

> Of course.

Nope, the congress would never have bought that.

> But Americans are no longer people who live meaningful lives.
> They are only consumers of cheap foreign goods.

Any modern first world economy is always about a hell of a lot more than just goods.

> Reminds me of the Roman empire, before its collapse.

More fool you. Nothing like the roman empire before its collapse.

And the modern first world aint about to collapse like the roman empire did either.

Its actually the alternatives that have been collapsing very spectacularly indeed, stupid.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:45 pm
From: clams_casino

Napoleon wrote:

>Enlighten me. How is a tax rebate check of the 300 dollars going to
>stimulate the economy out of a recession? Since when have Americans no
>longer been considered "citizens" and are now just consumers?
>
>How is it that 300 bucks in the hands of low-income, middle-income and
>basically most Americans, is going to translate into jobs that are
>not outsourced, universal health care, businesses actually
>manufacturing goods, technology actually looking into alternative
>fuels, property taxes going down or being eliminated, etc, etc.
>
>

The lower income group will likely spend it immediately, thinking it's a
gift which is excellent for stimulating buying / demand.

The upper income groups will simply save the money or pay down debt (as
a clear majority did with GW's 2001 tax rebate) which has minimal / no
effect at improving the economy / increasing demand.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:46 pm
From: George Grapman

clams_casino wrote:
> Napoleon wrote:
>
>> Enlighten me. How is a tax rebate check of the 300 dollars going to
>> stimulate the economy out of a recession? Since when have Americans no
>> longer been considered "citizens" and are now just consumers?
>>
>> How is it that 300 bucks in the hands of low-income, middle-income and
>> basically most Americans, is going to translate into jobs that are
>> not outsourced, universal health care, businesses actually
>> manufacturing goods, technology actually looking into alternative
>> fuels, property taxes going down or being eliminated, etc, etc.
>>
>>
>
> The lower income group will likely spend it immediately, thinking it's a
> gift which is excellent for stimulating buying / demand.
>
> The upper income groups will simply save the money or pay down debt (as
> a clear majority did with GW's 2001 tax rebate) which has minimal / no
> effect at improving the economy / increasing demand.
>
All of which adds to an already record deficit.

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TOPIC: 1buy shop price www.netfashion2008.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3dd8d3a02969ca63?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why do people stay in overpriced real estate markets?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56d80a4d61e1222e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 12:41 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Jan 18, 12:49 pm, michaelcalt...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Okay, I got really tired of the WINTER BLUES. UGH! We found out that
>> it is vital to get Vitamin D to get and feel healthy all year! We
>> tried Cod Liver Oil and that worked pretty good but not enough! Then
>> we realized we needed to make a complete latitude adjustment and
>> moved SOUTH to get more sun!

A little vitamin D and a few extra lights (well, a lot of extra lights)
seems much more affordable than pulling up roots and moving to the land
of hurricanes.

Just how much would it cost to cover the ceiling of a room with
fluorescent fixtures filled with sunlight tubes? Say you've got
a small bedroom you use as an office, den, knitting room or the
like and it's 10x12 ft. Four tube 2x4 foot ceiling fixtures can
be had for $40. They could be arranged in a 5 x 3 grid to cover
the ceiling for a total of 15 fixtures, $600. 6200K full spectrum
T12 tubes cost about $11 each, though perhaps less in full cases.
This room would need 60 tubes for a total of $660.

Total cost, about $1260 plus something for the electrician to
install. I don't know what electricians cost but I would hazard
a guess that the entire thing would come in less than $2K. This
is probably much less than the cost to move to another state.

How much would it cost to run? 60 tubes at 40W each (roughly)
would be 2.4kW. Perhaps one would need a window fan to keep
things cool. A quick web search found me websites that claim
less than one hour of light therapy a day will work for most
people. If electricity costs 10 cents/kWh this would come out
to 24 cents a day.

Perhaps the cost could be reduced by doing the majority of the
installation yourself, finding surplus fixtures and using a mix
of UV, blue and ordinary fluorescent tubes in place of the special
sunlight versions. It could help keep you tan in the winter. :)

> Dreaming of a condo strikes me as setting your sights a little low.
>
> My dreams include acreage. My husband would like to be able to step
> out the back door and shoot skeet.

With condos it's quite likely that Skeet lives next door so you
would still be able to step out the back door and shoot Skeet.

I agree that dreaming of a condo is setting ones sights a little
low. I prefer to dream of an entire evil empire AND a condo.

Anthony

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 12:59 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:28:42 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
<angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 18, 12:49?pm, michaelcalt...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Okay, I got really tired of the WINTER BLUES. UGH! We found out that
>> it is vital to get Vitamin D to get and feel healthy all year! We
>> tried Cod Liver Oil and that worked pretty good but not enough! Then
>> we realized we needed to make a complete latitude adjustment and
>> moved
>> SOUTH to get more sun! We foundhttp://www.eat-shit-in-florida.com
>> and have decided to move to Orlando Florida! Love the folks at Hairy
>> Palm homes! We are getting the condo of our dreams!
>
>Dreaming of a condo strikes me as setting your sights a little low.
>
>My dreams include acreage. My husband would like to be able to step
>out the back door and shoot skeet.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Cindy, replying to spammers just encourages them. Better to set your
filters to avoid gmail addresses, and never quote their message
including the website they want to promote.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:39 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 15, 7:15 pm, KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop
<kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 15, 7:59 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A vested interest does not mean the best interest for the buyer.
>
> > Remember this whenever you are the buyer and it will serve you well.
>
> > TMT
>
> Classic example was when Bush issued us taxpayers those tax refund
> checks in 2001. The Home Depot ran ads on radio reminding folks that
> they could spend those refunds at the HD. I kid you not. The other
> best interest served was you got financing options for purchases over
> $299 I believe. The refund checks were for $300 if memory serves me
> right.

Good example.

I was SHOCKED to hear our idiot President to publicly state that
consumers should SPEND - SPEND - SPEND shortly after 9/11.

That is when I realized we had an idiot in the White House.

The sub prime crash is proving this opinion to be correct.

The next check you get from Washington in their latest quick fix
should be saved ....when you are thrown out of your house you will
need that money for food.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 3.buy product send free web
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/39afe64e5b769d52?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:00 pm
From: yhnetstore1@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cellphone battery life
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca4d0c8b9093ec56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:19 pm
From: Jeff

Terry Terry wrote:
> On Jan 17, 5:13 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>> On Jan 17, 1:02 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 16, 5:28 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> I have a Tracfone. I bought it for emergencies a month ago. The
>>>>>>> instructions say that the phone will withstand temperatures to -10C
>>>>>>> and will hold a charge for 10 days.
>>>>>>> They lie.
>>>>>>> Because I only use my phone for emergencies, I left my phone in my car
>>>>>>> for two nights. The temperature came near freezing, but did not drop
>>>>>>> to freezing.
>>>>>>> The phone battery died.
>>>>>>> I took it back. The girl at the counter said that all phones are like
>>>>>>> that. Don't leave the phone in the car. Is she telling the truth or
>>>>>>> should I insist on another phone?
>>>>>> Maybe the battery was bad or not fully charged. Since you only use it
>>>>>> for emergencies, presumably outgoing calls, why not remove or
>>>>>> disconnect the battery when not in use. It should keep it's charge for
>>>>>> weeks or months. I have a couple in a drawer here and I charge them
>>>>>> every 2-3 months, but they are still plenty live enough to make a call
>>>>>> even then. I am speaking about lithium-ion batteries. NI-CAD or NMH
>>>>>> won't hold a charge as long as they have a shorter shelf life.
>>>>> How would taking out the battery extend its life?
>>>> At least turn the phone off. But even with the phone off it is still
>>>> drawing some power, that switch is a software switch not a hardware
>>>> switch like your home light switches.
>>>>> I am thinking that the battery is bad and I should be able to exchange
>>>>> it for another phone. I had that in mind when I returned it to the
>>>>> store, but the girl at the counter said that was typical operation.
>>>> I'm thinking you did this awkwardly by starting a complaint about the
>>>> phone, hence putting the counter girl in confrontation mode.
>>>> It's always easier if you ask people to help you. Just tell her the
>>>> phone died and you don't know why, what can we do about it. Don't go
>>>> into why can't it stand the cold, don't even mention that.
>>>> I have similar problems when my girlfriend tries to take something
>>>> back, she complains and they refuse. Now she gets me to do it and there
>>>> are no problems. People will go out of their way to help if they want
>>>> to, otherwise you are by the book.
>>>> Jeff
>>> I don't think that is what happened. I have started shopping at Radio
>>> Shack again. I quit for shopping there for a very long time because I
>>> bought my first IBM compatible machine there. Anyway.....I know the
>>> salesperson.
>>> I could have insisted for an exchange and got one. I wasn't
>>> complaining. I just told her what happened. I also think she told
>>> the truth to me when she said that if I got another one it would do
>>> the same thing.
>> I'm confused. It sounded to me that the battery died and that was it.
>> Has the battery recharged?
>>
>> All batteries have much less capacity at lower temperatures. It's a
>> chemical reaction and it's temperature dependant. That's why they rate
>> car batteries in cold cranking amps.
>>
>> If the battery is dead, dead, dead, get a new one. If it just needed
>> to be recharged or warmed up, then that's normal.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>> I just wanted to hear from other cell phone users that may treat their
>>> phones the same way. I want to leave my phone in my car when I am
>>> away from home and not have it in my pocket. I know most people keep
>>> their phone handy even if they don't plan to get any calls. I know I
>>> will not be getting any calls, because I haven't given out my phone
>>> number. I don't consider being out of bread an emergency.
>>> The only thing I care to spend a dollar a min to call would be 911 or
>>> a tow truck.
>
> No it is not dead. It charged backup fine.
>
> The instructions lead me to believe I could leave the phone in the car
> for 10 days at 10C.
>
> I take if from other replies that this is not the intended use for the
> phone.
>

Why don't you invest in a car charger or one of those emergency
cellphone batteries? Nothing wrong with keeping the phone charged up in
the car. It is possible to let a LiIon battery become so discharged that
it won't recharge. In general batteries last longer if they are kept up.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why we don't need Mexicans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a33d78e3d758123f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:20 pm
From: Bob Ward

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:14:10 -0800 (PST), Terry Terry
<kilowatt@charter.net> wrote:

>On Jan 17, 5:26 pm, Shawn Wilson <ikonoql...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 16, 12:20 pm, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > Here are 14 reasons why the US has to cut benefits to senior citizens.
>> > > "Snopes" is provided for any doubters. I hope the following reasons are
>> > > forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the
>> > > reader gets sick of reading them.
>>
>> Sigh...
>>
>> How to lie with statistics 101- make sure to include all negatives (/
>> positives) of the policy you don't (/do) like and lowball or ignore
>> any positives (/negatives).
>>
>> Here we have a great many negatives of illegals, no corresponding data
>> on legal immigrants for comparison (on a per capita basis it's pretty
>> obvious that illegals will cost less than legals as they will be
>> afraid to seek some services for fear of deportation), and an utter
>> lack or any mention of positives the illegals provide the country,
>> like cheap labor and lower prices.
>>
>> Please, if you want to discuss government policy do it honestly.
>
>
>They have paid for none of the services.
>
>
>My father and his father paid for the roads and the courthouses.
>
>My father and his father were asked to give their lives for this
>country
>
>
Many undocumented workers (without a SSSN) are paying money into the
system that they will never be able to recover, since they are using a
forged or stolen SSN. How is that not paying taxes? When an
undocumented worker purchases a refrigerator, furniture, clothing,
etc, he or she pays sales tax just like you or I would. In what way
is that not paying taxes?

Some immigrants are offered the opportunity to serve this country and
eventually get the necessary papers to remain here after they have
served in the military.

How far do you intend to ride on the coattails of your father and his
father? If you haven't stepped up to the plate and offered to give
YOUR life for this country, where on earth do you get the balls to
criticize others?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cool Furniture Blog
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/22915b466da3b5ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:40 pm
From: clams_casino

webmediagroup@gmail.com wrote:

>I found a cool furniture blog where I was able to find some great
>deals through affiliate programs on it:
>
>
>

Do you get free delivery when you buy through your own web site?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: All about DOGS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/17575d47b81b90b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 1:41 pm
From: clams_casino

mayabeever@yahoo.com wrote:

>Hi
>
>How much do you know about Dogs?
>
>
>
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: non-toxic glassware/ dinnerware?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/35038ef875d8eac3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:25 pm
From: pc

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>>
>> Why is this a problem? Retailers can simply refuse to sell any produce
>> that is not clearly marked, "safe for food consumption" or something
>> along those lines. In fact, I would hope this proposition 65 requires
>> such labeling in order to make it easy for retailers to identify any
>> products that do contain toxic substances.
>
> The stores were basically forced into doing what they did to totally
> protect themselves from lawsuits.
>
> Prop 65 was a ballot initiative put on the ballot by getting enough
> people to sign a petition asking for it. It sounds like a good idea,
> but it was too easy to render useless and so time-consuming to comply
> with in an ideal fashion that most businesses opted for the easy,
> brain-dead solution, which is why it never should have been put on the
> ballot in the first place.
>

You can buy a lead testing kit at Home Depot.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WE PAY 10% RETURN PER MONTH GUARANTEED
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b66264e5203d5c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 18 2008 2:43 pm
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Friday, January 18, 2008

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