Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: is it frugal to replace old top loading washer with new front loading
energy star?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/57c32f9bf6996aba?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 12:30 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Apr 6, 6:34 pm, Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> will the savings I make on water and electricity be substantial enough
> to pay for a new washer? Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
> replacing old top loader with front loader or is the difference not
> noticeable?

I have to admit I'm a bit underwhelmed on the "savings" department
with my He2 "front loader" and matching huge dryer. I rarely use
"hot" wash water...and so far the dryer doesn't dry "faster" than my
previous model. However, I will be water-metered soon so when that
happens I might see some savings, at least from the general water
usage.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 1:19 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have to admit I'm a bit underwhelmed on the "savings" department
>with my He2 "front loader"

To me (limited knowledge)..... the problem with front
loaders..... and my beef with the one that I had that
failed on me after 7 years is this:

The "longevity" of front loaders MAY not be long
enough for the payback given the premium cost.

You really need to think that out ...

I just don't think these new fangled front loaders (ANY
of them)...will last 20-25 years like the old top
loader that my mom had did. And if they don't....
there is a good chance there will be no payback but
ironically could COST MORE total ownership cost! That
was my experience!

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 2:30 pm
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <c82fb05d-d1ad-41fd-9137-31fcc79043c9
@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, joe5345@gmail.com says...
> will the savings I make on water and electricity be substantial enough
> to pay for a new washer? Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
> replacing old top loader with front loader or is the difference not
> noticeable?
>
Google JAMES WASHER

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 4:06 pm
From: sarge137

On Apr 6, 7:34 pm, Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> will the savings I make on water and electricity be substantial enough
> to pay for a new washer? Anyone notice lower utitily bills after
> replacing old top loader with front loader or is the difference not
> noticeable?

If you're moving from a top loader to a front loader to save operating
costs, don't bother. You'll wear out the front loader long before you
recover your additional purchase cost over an equivalent top loader -
which will still be running long after the front loader goes to the
washing machine grave yard.

If you want to make the change because it's a "greener" product (which
it really isn't), only you can decide what that's worth to you.

Regards,
Sarge

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 6:25 pm
From: "Lou"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:ftfma3$bhh$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> > I don't have one. But when I bought my last machine I considered it,
and
> > decided not to when I calculated that it would take something like 20-25
> > years for the extra cost to be made up by water savings.
>
> Yes, but did you calculate the cost of heating water? A front loader uses
a
> lot less water, so you need to HEAT less water to run it. -Dave

I calculated based on my usage patterns - almost all of the wash is done in
cold water. We have a white linen lace tablecloth we use at Christmas - it
has to be washed in hot water. Other than that, an occasional (like once
every few months) grimy article means a load done with hot water.

So basically, any savings would be due solely to reduced water usage. At my
water rates, that's not much.

Supposedly, front loaders spin more water out of the wash, so the dryer
would run less, but I couldn't find any figures to quantify the difference.
Supposedly, front loaders are gentler on clothes, which should longer as a
result. Considering that the slacks I wore to work today are over ten years
old and still look like new, that potential cost saving seems minute at
best.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 6:38 pm
From: "Lou"

"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ecSdncI-W7t9BGbanZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
> news:ftfma3$bhh$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >
> >> I don't have one. But when I bought my last machine I considered it,
and
> >> decided not to when I calculated that it would take something like
20-25
> >> years for the extra cost to be made up by water savings.
> >
> > Yes, but did you calculate the cost of heating water? A front loader
uses a
> > lot less water, so you need to HEAT less water to run it. -Dave
>
> Plus, the newer machines supposedly spin faster, to reduce the dryer time.

I've heard that many times over the years, but I've never seen any figures
to back it up. Something on the order of, we start with like ten pounds of
dry cotton bath sheets and run them through the washer. When they come out
of the front loader the wet towels weigh 10 + x pounds. When they come out
of the top loader, they weigh 10 + x + y pounds. I don't know if it's true
or not, but granting that it's true, how big a number is "y"? And I guess
to be fair, the two machines should be of roughly comparable quality and
price - pitting a bottom of the line top loader against a premium front
loader kind of stacks the dice.

> And
> I've heard that clothes last significantly longer when washed in front
loaders.

Again, some numbers would be helpful here. How much longer? Do you wear
out your clothes/sheets/towels, or do you replace them as fashion or your
taste changes? I ask because I have terry towels that are over 30 years old
and still in excellent shape, sheets on the bed that are pushing 20 years
old. My clothes tend to be somewhat newer than that - it seems I filled out
somewhat over the years. Again, a quantitative test would be nice - ten
pounds of men's dress shirts washed 20 times in a top loader weigh how much,
compared to identical shirts washed 20 times in a front loader.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions about collision/comprehensive auto coverage.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eb6b1d33ccf35e79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 12:46 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:Sp6dnRcpVbXX2mfanZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and I was
> thinking about the comprehensive/collision coverage. The older car has
> liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car has a retail value
> of $9,580 and of the 30 or so listings on autotrader that seems to be an
> accurate average asking price.
>
> The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except the
> state's required liability insurance. The comprehensive/collision for the
> newer car is $501/year with a $500 deductible for collision and a $100
> deductible for comprehensive.
>
> I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the
> comprehensive/collision coverage.

You left out a key piece of data - your financial ability to absorb a $9,580
loss.

If the car is stolen/wrecked tomorrow, could you afford to replace it
(possibly with a much cheaper used car) without seriously damaging your
financial stability?

If the car is stolen/wrecked tomorrow, could you afford to NOT replace it?
(i.e. could you get by with one car.)

If you can truthfully answer "yes" to one of these questions, drop the c/c.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 1:54 pm
From: larry

SpammersDie wrote:
> "George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Sp6dnRcpVbXX2mfanZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>We have two vehicles. The auto insurance renewal came in today and I was
>>thinking about the comprehensive/collision coverage. The older car has
>>liability coverage only. KBB shows that the newer car has a retail value
>>of $9,580 and of the 30 or so listings on autotrader that seems to be an
>>accurate average asking price.
>>
>>The cars aren't financed so there is no insurance obligation except the
>>state's required liability insurance. The comprehensive/collision for the
>>newer car is $501/year with a $500 deductible for collision and a $100
>>deductible for comprehensive.
>>
>>I interested in opinions about keeping or dropping the
>>comprehensive/collision coverage.
>
>
> You left out a key piece of data - your financial ability to absorb a $9,580
> loss.
>
> If the car is stolen/wrecked tomorrow, could you afford to replace it
> (possibly with a much cheaper used car) without seriously damaging your
> financial stability?
>
> If the car is stolen/wrecked tomorrow, could you afford to NOT replace it?
> (i.e. could you get by with one car.)
>
> If you can truthfully answer "yes" to one of these questions, drop the c/c.
>

That was my first thought, what can you afford to loose?
Our threshold is $5000, blue book value. The coverage cost
vs payoff gets pretty bad at that value. But be sure to
keep under/un-insured coverage, until they start impounding
uui drivers here, it has and will pay well.

Put the saved comp portion in a good div. stock, good down
payment on your next used car ;-)

-larry

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 4:47 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"larry" <foo@foobar.com> wrote in message
news:6YQKj.1307$h75.286@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> SpammersDie wrote:
>> "George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Sp6dnRcpVbXX2mfanZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com...

> That was my first thought, what can you afford to loose? Our threshold is
> $5000, blue book value. The coverage cost vs payoff gets pretty bad at
> that value. But be sure to keep under/un-insured coverage, until they
> start impounding uui drivers here, it has and will pay well.
>
> Put the saved comp portion in a good div. stock, good down payment on your
> next used car ;-)

Both of you are correct!!! I can personally afford to afford $8500 to
replace a car tomorrow. I invest the savings from not paying c/c into low
cost low fee index funds. It took me a few years to save that $8500 but if
my car were stolen or a tree fell on it tomorrow or got rear-ended during my
commute, I can afford up to 8500 cash to "fix" things.

So the original poster needs to ask themselves can they afford to replace
their vechile and what would they do with the savings!!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Heat Pump Water Heaters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/40d651ea196b45b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 12:58 pm
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Paul M. Eldridge" <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:6g1nv3dcp3a0i2t1l5chbr3d3akc3nfth1@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:07:50 -0400, <h> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Paul M. Eldridge" <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>news:mkpmv3tln2v6p7us6jjjt07joq7qu2b4tb@4ax.com...
>>
>>> Installed correctly and with proper routine maintenance (basically,
>>> nothing more than cleaning or changing the air filter), these products
>>> should provide many years of trouble-free and economical service. I
>>> understand Massachusetts has some of the highest electricity rates in
>>> North America and replacing a water heater with one that could
>>> potentially use twice as much electricity doesn't strike me as a good
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Paul
>>
>>They've had several "specialists" come out to take a look (boiler guy,
>>water
>>heater guy, heat pump guy) and the "experts" all say the heater is working
>>properly, and the settings are correct. At this point, they could have
>>simply replaced the water heater, since they've spent over $500 on
>>professionals to tell them that the system is just fine. The water heater
>>guy told them he had the "same setup", and looked at them funny when they
>>complained about the water temp. He said, "It's already at 95 degrees (F).
>>How much hotter would you like it? Sheesh." Maybe it's a local thing
>>(tough
>>New Englanders), but I think most people want their hot water to be at
>>least
>>120 degrees F. The guy jacked the thermostat all the way up (grumbling
>>that
>>they would "scald themselves"), so now the water is at 100 degrees F.
>>Still
>>way too cold, but it's apparently running "properly". I'm just glad I
>>don't
>>have to shower in it!
>
> Thanks for the additional info. FWIW, a typical heat pump water
> heater provides 8,000 to 10,000 BTUs/hr of heating (nominal). That's
> the same amount of heat as would be provided by a 2.3 to 2.9 kW
> electric element. A standard electric water heater is normally
> equipped with either a 3.0 or 3.8 kW element although 4.5 or 5.5 kW
> elements are used on some larger capacity models. What this means is
> that HPWHs require longer recovery times and, thus, to maximize
> potential savings (i.e., to avoid the backup elements from kicking on
> to help out), it's best to spread out demand over a wider timeframe
> where possible.
>
> That said, if the heat pump cannot keep up with demand, it would
> automatically switch over to the backup resistance elements so it
> should provide the same level of performance as a conventional
> electric unit. If everything were truly working properly and they're
> still running out of hot water, they would likewise run out of hot
> water with a conventional electric tank.
>
> Clearly, something is not working as it should. Either they're
> drawing unusually large amounts of hot water over a short timeframe
> and therefore the electric elements cannot keep up, or the thermostat
> is not properly set up to facilitate this switch-over to electric
> resistance. In any event, anyone claiming that 100F is too hot
> frankly doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. The tank
> thermostat should be set to 120F, or higher if equipped with an
> anti-scalding valve. With that, the likelihood of a "run out" qould
> be vastly diminished.

Oh, they never, ever "run out" of hot water. The water is always around body
temperature; never hotter, never colder. Just dreadful, in my opinion.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 2:06 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:58:54 -0400, <h> wrote:

>Oh, they never, ever "run out" of hot water. The water is always around body
>temperature; never hotter, never colder. Just dreadful, in my opinion.

Well, 100F isn't going to provide much reserve capacity, so as cold
water is drawn into the tank, outlet temperatures will start to fall
off rather rapidly. In any event, I would recommend the upper and
lower tank thermostats be set at 120F or 140F if the tank is equipped
with a mixing value to prevent scalding. Given normal line losses,
being set at 100F, the temperature at the shower head may very well be
95F or less -- much too low for my liking.

Cheers,
Paul

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 6:02 pm
From: Logan Shaw

h wrote:
> "Paul M. Eldridge" <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:mkpmv3tln2v6p7us6jjjt07joq7qu2b4tb@4ax.com...

>> Installed correctly and with proper routine maintenance (basically,
>> nothing more than cleaning or changing the air filter), these products
>> should provide many years of trouble-free and economical service. I
>> understand Massachusetts has some of the highest electricity rates in
>> North America and replacing a water heater with one that could
>> potentially use twice as much electricity doesn't strike me as a good
>> solution.

> They've had several "specialists" come out to take a look (boiler guy, water
> heater guy, heat pump guy) and the "experts" all say the heater is working
> properly, and the settings are correct. At this point, they could have
> simply replaced the water heater, since they've spent over $500 on
> professionals to tell them that the system is just fine. The water heater
> guy told them he had the "same setup", and looked at them funny when they
> complained about the water temp. He said, "It's already at 95 degrees (F).
> How much hotter would you like it? Sheesh."

Hindsight is not exactly useful, but there was an easy to solution to that
problem: don't pay the "expert". The stated purpose of having him come
out was to get the tap to deliver hotter water. If he's going to do a
bunch of stuff but ultimately refuse to even attempt to accomplish the goal
he was hired for, then he shouldn't be paid, because he hasn't held up his
end of the bargain.

I do wonder about one thing, though, which is whether this heat pump water
heater is drawing in the heat from indoors or outdoors. If it is bringing
the heat in from outdoors, there is usually a maximum temperature difference
that a heat pump can achieve, so if it can boost the temperature by 60F
and it's 32F outside, then heating to 92F is proper operation for the heat
pump portion of the system. If this were the case, then (a) the "emergency"
resistive heating should be kicking in (assuming it exists, which it seems
like it should in a climate like that), and (b) there would be a marked
difference in performance during the summer vs. the winter, but I think you
said it seems to always be about body temperature.

- Logan

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee01687846b358cc?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: universal healthcare
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4e9396469768688b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 2:28 pm
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <efe1c1d2-4dc7-4964-990c-
492201a5d34a@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, shimshady05@gmail.com
says...
> What are some of the downsides of universal health care?
>
Gov't decides who gets service

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/C9EA529E-202B-4FDC-8225-9D4E9851856B/

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 2:34 pm
From: George Grapman

Cheapo Groovo wrote:
> In article <efe1c1d2-4dc7-4964-990c-
> 492201a5d34a@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, shimshady05@gmail.com
> says...
>> What are some of the downsides of universal health care?
>>
> Gov't decides who gets service
>
> http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/C9EA529E-202B-4FDC-8225-9D4E9851856B/

As opposed to insurance companies making the decision.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 4:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Cheapo Groovo <ccsj@nospam.com> wrote
> shimshady05@gmail.com wrote

>> What are some of the downsides of universal health care?

> Gov't decides who gets service

Nope, not with a decent universal health care system that just does the payment side.

> http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/C9EA529E-202B-4FDC-8225-9D4E9851856B/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where can I buy a cheap little wooden shed?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3454fcb902a45552?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 2:38 pm
From: Dennis

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:02:14 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>I wouldn't call them cheap. The wooden ones they sell are durned
>pricey. I checked them out, since I've got to put together a chicken
>coop soon. Ain't no chickens of mine goina live in one of them
>mansions.

When we first got chickens, I built an 8x12 walk-in coop for them (the
Palais de Poulet). I went to a local yard that sells
second/salvaged/surplus lumber and building items. I picked out a
load of 2x4 seconds and T-111 plywood "blows" for cheap and got to
work. Six years later, the coop is still standing and the chickens
don't seem to care about cosmetics. :-) So that's one way to go.

But these days, Mrs. (evil) prefers several "chicken tractors" to the
single large coop for her flocks. Google to get some ideas, but these
are small shelters with attached runs that are easy for a couple of
people to move. We (for example) put them over the garden plot in the
spring and fall and let the little clucks scratch and peck (and shit)
away. Good for the chicks and good for the garden. Keeping them in
smaller, separate groups seems to make them happier, too.

Just an idea.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Business Owners
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b224c9139c7552a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 3:03 pm
From: Duke

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TOPIC: discount prada timberland ugg hogan 4us shoes, cheap juicy polo coach
handbag
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00b30ff07da684ef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 4:07 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Health Savings Account
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/61aa09e18a7f4a10?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 4:18 pm
From: Jim Prescott

In article <ft839m$3e5$2@aioe.org>, OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
> My wife's employer recently switched to a high deductible health insurance
>plan. I seem to recall that this was one of the requirements to setting up
>a health savings account.

Not all High Deductible Health Plans (HDHP) are setup to permit an HSA but
most are. A good source of HSA info is at:
http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/

> Her employer also offers something called a "cafeteria plan", which is
>really a health spending account.

Frequently called an Flexible Spending Account or FSA. Note that using
a normal FSA makes you ineligible for an HSA; there are custom built
FSAs that avoid this problem.

As far as I can tell, HSAs are superior to FSAs in all ways; if you can
do an HSA there is no reason to do an FSA too. (One exception is if
you are maxing out your HSA, either due to large medical expenses or
because you view it primarily as a retirement account, funding a
limited purpose FSA too lets you deduct more money).

> I'd much rather have something that builds up and grows over time - maybe
>even something that lets you invest part of it (as it gets bigger) into
>ETF's, so that the index fund can grow and beat inflation over time.

That is precisely what HSAs are good for. No use it or lose it aspect
and when you get old the money is usable without penalty for retirement.

> Can anyone give me some hints on places that might offer something like

Check with your credit union or bank. These sites link to a variety of
HSA providers. Note that fees and services vary a lot and from what I've
seen the fees are higher than what is found in other financial products.
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/hsa-health-savings-accounts.ds

http://www.hsainsider.com/Open/AdminFI.aspx
Many websites are mainly interested in selling the HDHP/HSA package so
you sometimes have to look hard to find the "just the HSA" part.

If your wife's employer offers an HSA then it will be the most
convenient choice. But your HSA doesn't have to be linked to your
employer in any way. As long as you are covered by an appropriate HDHP
you can setup an HSA anywhere.
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group jgp@seas.rochester.edu
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 5:24 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Apr 5, 9:09 pm, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article <ft839m$3e...@aioe.org>, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> > My wife's employer recently switched to a high deductible health insurance
> > plan. I seem to recall that this was one of the requirements to setting up
> > a health savings account.
>
> My employer provided medical plan has no deductible at all for major
> medical problems and we still have the option of a health savings
> account.
>
> > Her employer also offers something called a "cafeteria plan", which is
> > really a health spending account. It lets you guess your health spending
> > for the year, put that amount in, and then that amount of your income is tax
> > free for the year. The downside is that anything we wouldn't use goes back
> > to her employer at the end of the year, and it doesn't encourage you to save
> > long term.
>
> Yup. I do that. It works pretty well. At the end of the year, I look at
> my unused balance and I start buying up eligible products so I am left
> with a zero balance at the end of the year. Works fine.
>
> > I'd much rather have something that builds up and grows over time - maybe
> > even something that lets you invest part of it (as it gets bigger) into
> > ETF's, so that the index fund can grow and beat inflation over time.
>
> > Can anyone give me some hints on places that might offer something like
> > this?
>
> I have no idea. Try googling.

I'm with you on that, Shawn. Last year I put $1000 in the HSA and it
was gone by September.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turning off gas / water in house that is still somewhat in use?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0d95784a16c4e201?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 6:00 pm
From: "Lou"

"Joe" <really-faked-but-works@yunx.com> wrote in message
news:WaIKj.2030$bQ1.320@trndny09...
> I'm selling a property. Folks visit it to see it but I turned the hot
water
> heaters and furnaces to their "vacation" settings. Last time I was there,
I
> turned off the water main to make sure that there were no "drips" causing
me
> a bill...
>

I don't know what a "vacation" setting is, but if the water heater turns on
every so often and you've turned the water off, it seems to me that you
could be running a risk.

The other thing that comes to mind is that a cold building doesn't sound
very inviting - shutting off the utilities may make the place harder to
sell.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 5:43 pm
From: "Joe"

> I don't know what a "vacation" setting is, but if the water heater turns
> on
> every so often and you've turned the water off, it seems to me that you
> could be running a risk.

The heater has water in it so I *think* it is okay...

> The other thing that comes to mind is that a cold building doesn't sound
> very inviting - shutting off the utilities may make the place harder to
> sell.

Under contract since January. Hoping to close in less than a month as it is
a complicated situation for the buyers and the most difficult closing I've
ever had to deal with.
--

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 5:53 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Joe wrote:
> I'm selling a property. Folks visit it to see it but I turned the hot water
> heaters and furnaces to their "vacation" settings. Last time I was there, I
> turned off the water main to make sure that there were no "drips" causing me
> a bill...
>
> It doesn't get below freezing and I have a fridge or two in the house so I
> can't kill the power totally... Anything else I can do to save $$$ on
> utilities?

Warning: unless you've taken precautions, it's not good to leave a house with
no water running down the drains for too long. The U-shaped traps in a drain
have water standing in them to prevent sewer gases from making it back up the
pipe. But if you don't run water down there, the existing water will eventually
evaporate, the trap will stop serving its purpose, and sewer gases will be free
to enter the house. If one of my relative's experience is any indication, you'll
notice, too.

So, were it me, I'd fix any drips. (Since this usually just means replacing a
washer, and ought to be done anyway.) And then I'd turn the water main back
on, and every time I went over, I'd run the water in each of the sinks for 15
seconds or so.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: washing rubber gloves in washer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00ebcf12080a52d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 8 2008 5:45 pm
From: Logan Shaw

piclistguy@yahoo.com wrote:
> I often use rubber gloves for washing dishes (sensitive skin).
> The ones I buy are from from Target for about $6. They last a long
> time and are high quality.
> Once in a while, water gets into the lining and bacteria start to
> grow.
> I dont want to throw them out each time this happens.
> I tried putting them in the washer. and then try to air dry them.
> However latent moisture in the lining cant escape quick enough and
> bacteria start to grow.

Since they're relatively cheap and it wouldn't be a big loss if they
did not survive, you might try putting them in the clothes dryer with
some other stuff. They'd be unlikely to make it through on high,
but if you dry them on low heat for a short time, they might be able
to survive that just fine. I would try putting them in with some
other items that need a similar cycle since dryers seem to work better
when they're not drying only 1 or 2 items. Plus the moisture in the
other items might keep everything from getting too hot.

I wash my shower curtain liner in the washer, and I used to hang dry
it as well, then one day I tried putting it in the dryer on low along
with some towels, and it turns out it works just fine. In fact it
comes out better because it's not all creased and wrinkled.

- Logan

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