Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air Jordan Retro 20, Nike Air Jordan Force 20, Jordan Fusion XX
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac20ad1a607dcfdf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 11:24 pm
From: riki0001@gmail.com

www.aaashoe.com

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX 3/4 (white / silver / garnett)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX Low (white / navy)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX (Midwest Edition)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX (West Edition)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX (East Edition)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX (black / stealth / red)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX (white / red / black)

Nike Air Jordan 20 XX Quick Strike Edition (white / black)

AIR Jordan Retro 20 XX , AIR Force Jordan 20 Fusion, AIR Jordan 20
Shoes, AJF 20, AJF20, Nike Jordan Fusion

==============================================================================
TOPIC: VIDEO: Ron Paul Talks About the Bailout
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ecd7ed3cd444e42?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 12:21 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:32:41 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> perreigh <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ron has some rational things to say about our predicament.
>>
>> Nope, not one.
>>
>>> He's certainly correct about the bailout having dubious value,
>>
>> Nope, not that either.
>>
>>> and none for Mainstreeters.
>>
>> And he's wrong there in spades. The big advantage for Mainstreeters
>> is avoiding another great depression, stupid.
>
> <sarcasm>Wonderful comeback! Cogent, intelligent, cohernet,
> comprehensive.</sarcasm>

Yours in spades, child.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 3:31 am
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 17:21:18 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

> Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:32:41 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> perreigh <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ron has some rational things to say about our predicament.
>>>
>>> Nope, not one.
>>>
>>>> He's certainly correct about the bailout having dubious value,
>>>
>>> Nope, not that either.
>>>
>>>> and none for Mainstreeters.
>>>
>>> And he's wrong there in spades. The big advantage for Mainstreeters is
>>> avoiding another great depression, stupid.
>>
>> <sarcasm>Wonderful comeback! Cogent, intelligent, cohernet,
>> comprehensive.</sarcasm>
>
> Yours in spades, child.

Is that a nigger reference, uncle billy-bob?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush Voters: Got Shame?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 1:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 17:21:18 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:32:41 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> perreigh <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ron has some rational things to say about our predicament.
>>>>
>>>> Nope, not one.
>>>>
>>>>> He's certainly correct about the bailout having dubious value,
>>>>
>>>> Nope, not that either.
>>>>
>>>>> and none for Mainstreeters.
>>>>
>>>> And he's wrong there in spades. The big advantage for
>>>> Mainstreeters is avoiding another great depression, stupid.
>>>
>>> <sarcasm>Wonderful comeback! Cogent, intelligent, cohernet,
>>> comprehensive.</sarcasm>
>>
>> Yours in spades, child.
>
> Is that a nigger reference, uncle billy-bob?

<sarcasm>Wonderful comeback! Cogent, intelligent, cohernet, comprehensive.</sarcasm>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 2:03 am
From: alohacyberian

On Sep 24, 11:24 pm, Patriot Games <Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:01:02 GMT, chief_thrac...@yahoo.com (Chief
>
> Thracian) wrote:
> >On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:32:43 -0400, Patriot Games
> ><Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
> >>Yet you FAILED to CITE any...
> >Do your own googling
>
> Translation: YOU were CAUGHT LYING.
>
> >>I see. They hide yet you magically know they exist?
> >There is such a thing as anonymous surveys.
>
> Yet you FAILED to CITE any...
>
> >>Yes, they NEVER rebelled. They marched.
> >You gotta be kidding. Watts riots? Long hot summer (1967)? Etc.
>
> The Civil Right Act was passed in 1964. The Watts riots were local
> meaningless bullshit.
>
> >>I stomped and boot-beat a few fags but I've never shot one. I bet
> >>that'll be fun!
> >No doubt in your gestapo uniform!
>
> Down here in South Florida that type of attire is just too hot.
>
> >>Where is that "rude awakening...?"
> >When you least expect it.
>
> Translation: It'll NEVER happen.
>
> >You are a subliterate goon, typical ugly
> >Amerikan. No wonder this country sucks so bad.
>
> Then take your shitstained ass and cock-filled mouth somewhere else.
> Ain't NOBODY stopping you.

Do you talk that way to Sharon?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 10:14 am
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:24:37 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:

>Then take your shitstained ass and cock-filled mouth somewhere else.
>Ain't NOBODY stopping you.

Hey, your slip is showing, CLOSET CASE!

--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 10:16 am
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:31:33 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:

>There is no such thing as "bisexuals."

What an illiterate statement.

>Bisexuality is an ACTIVITY.

So is homosexuality. So is heterosexuality. So is masturbation.

>Homosexuality is a GENETIC SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

>Heterosexuality is a GENETIC SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

So is bisexuality. You're an ignorant one alright. Typical closet
queer. I hope the time spend reading my message hasn't ruined your
date in the local park's bushes tonight.

--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 10:17 am
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:34:47 -0500, Day Brown <daybrown@daybrown.org>
wrote:

>Follow the money PG; the free market capitalists pay for creative
>genius, but not homophobia. I understand your distress, but you are
>pissing in the wind.

He'd need a tweezers for that.

--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 11:01 am
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:36:36 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:

>Because you LIVE there.

Boy are you a stupid shit. I subscribe to a news service that provides
the following three servers:

nyc.newsgroups-download.com
phoenix.newsgroups-download.com
amsterdam.newsgroups-download.com

See for yourself; their web page is:

http://www.newsgroups-download.com/

The page listing those 3 servers is here (at page end):

http://www.newsgroups-download.com/news-support.asp

You are so caught up w/stereotypes, that you insist I live in the
Netherlands. Wish I did! Then I wouldn't be surrounded by typical
Amerikan goons who are not only homophobic, but bigoted in every other
way, and not worth a speck of dog poo.

Such as your hideous closet-case self.

--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 5:41 pm
From: Dick Cheney

In article <48de69f0.9018711@amsterdam.newsgroups-download.com>,
ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian) wrote:

> >Bisexuality is an ACTIVITY.
>
> So is homosexuality. So is heterosexuality. So is masturbation.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Heh-heh-heh

Sincerely,

The President and Cummander In Cheef (get it? heh-heh-heh)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "No Amnesty for Illegal Aliens or Wall Street Gangsters!"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d1275f6c86fb49da?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 2:07 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:12:50 -0700 (PDT),
"GeorgeWashingtonAdmirer@adelphia.com" <guybannister58@aol.com> wrote:

>No Amnesty for Illegal Aliens or Wall Street Gangsters!
>
>by William Gheen
>President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC
>www.alipac.us
>
>
>For several years, I have warned of the coming illegal immigration
>great depression and pointed out that George Bush is the new Hoover!
>
>The financial Global elites have been flooding America with illegal
>aliens to try and prop up housing, debt, tax, and consumer markets as
>Americans are forced down on their knees economically and
>politically.
>
>The same toxic political combination of corporate greed and liberal
>social policy that is responsible for the non-enforcement of our
>existing immigration laws is the same culprit responsible for the new
>depression we face. Even their methods of creating this disaster are
>the same. While our government is further removed from citizen
>control, liberals have pushed for more financing and programs for
>those they see as disadvantaged, while corporate elites use their
>influence to break our immigration system.
>
>Illegal aliens flood the border each night, past brave Border Patrol
>agents who are ordered to catch and release, while immigration
>enforcers in the interior engage in token enforcement for political
>showmanship.
>
>It should be clear to all Americans now that corporate robber barons
>and small armies of their corrupt minions have been breaking through
>financial borders and avoiding many laws, without fear of enforcement
>as well.
>
>Now, we are being told that our market and big business regulatory
>systems are "broken" and we will need a multi-trillion dollar bailout
>AMNESTY for Wall Street law breakers as part of any Comprehensive
>Economic Reform!
>
>Sound familiar?
>
>Let's face the truth and respond accordingly. The same political
>sellouts in Washington, DC who have been giving big business and
>liberal social agendas anything they want have been doing the same
>behind the scenes by removing most of the laws and regulation
>management on that level as well.
>
>
>Over the last ten years they have removed or ignored most of the
>regulations that were put in place to assure another great depression
>never happened again.
>
>Now that the end game appears before us, they are desperate for more
>power and money to delay the inevitable and to assure that your
>average American citizen takes on most of the burden!
>
>After 9/11, Americans rewarded those who failed us with more power and
>money, while standing by like docile sheep allowing the shepherds to
>do what they said was needed. By setting this example of more money
>and power for failure, we again face the same scenario.
>
>If you stand by apathetically and watch the Bush administration
>establish a new level of unprecedented power for the Executive Branch
>this week, while raiding you, your nation, and your grand children of
>Billions because of an announced crisis, then you are practicing the
>same sucker mentality that got us deeper into this mess.
>
>I am not subscribing to any conspiracy theories about 9/11 when I say
>that it should be clear to all, that American government and corporate
>insiders have now accomplished what Osama Bin Laden intended to do to
>the American economy.
>
>So, we have a President with approval ratings in the low 20
>percentiles rushing out to ask a Congress with a 9% approval rating to
>give them unprecedented powers, amnesty from oversight and court
>prosecutions, and another 700 Billion dollars guaranteed by the
>taxpayers and the full force of the American government to extract
>that money and interest from us all.
>
>They say the power and funds must be delivered within days to avoid a
>global economic meltdown that will have dire consequences for us all.
>
>Anyone notice that they are not fully saying what these terrible
>consequences will be, if we do not empty our pockets at gunpoint?
>
>It shames me to think that there are many Americans left in our nation
>who believe a word of what comes out of the mouths of any of these
>traitors in the Bush administration. Politicians in Washington, DC are
>fearful of losing their jobs if the true economic consequences
>manifest BEFORE election day, instead of after, and thus the
>politicians give the appearance of doing something huge.
>
>Are we on the verge of establishing another psychological precedent
>that tells big business and politicians that failure will be rewarded
>with more money and power? If so, how can I get into the business of
>failing you? It appears to be very lucrative.
>
>We should all oppose this bailout and fight it by ringing the phones
>off the hook in DC like we did against the McCain Kennedy Amnesty
>bills.
>
>First, there is no assurance or even likelihood that this
>unprecedented bailout and amnesty for Wall Street traders will work.
>
>They have already thrown hundreds of billions of dollars of your money
>into bailouts for Barons, Fannie Mack, Fanny May, and AIG. The 700B
>more they claim they need this week is probably what they estimate is
>needed to prevent the collapse till after Nov 4, 2008 which is
>election day.
>
>Second, do you understand the scale of this financial looting of the
>American government's finances? With hundreds of billion already
>deployed without congressional or public approval, the next 700B takes
>you to 1 Trillion dollars for starters.
>
>Since the requested bailout bill would establish unprecedented powers
>for the Executive Branch to keep borrowing large sums, many analysts
>believe that the true costs could range between 1 to 5.5 Trillion
>dollars of your money!
>
>Look at how 1 Trillion compares to other major expenditures in
>America's modern history.
>
>Adjusted values into 2008 dollars
>
>Minimum 2008 Bailout: 1 Trillion Dollars
>
>Vietnam War: $596,200,000,000.00 (596.2 Billion)
>Korean War: $405,200,000,000.00 (405.2 Billion)
>World War 1 (US Costs) 328,292,421,030 (328.3 Billion)
>Space Shuttle Program: (162.6 Billion)
>Apollo Space Program: 151,400,000,000.00 (151.4 Billion)
>
>Will you sit silent as the Bush administration tries to reallocate
>your future into the hands of Wall Street on a scale almost three
>times the cost of WW1 or six times the cost of the Apollo Space
>Program?
>
>Three, look at the devils in the details of what the Bush
>administration is asking Congress to sign off on by Thursday of this
>week!
>
>They want the power to designate private financial companies and banks
>"as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all
>such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the
>Government as may be required of them" (Sect. 2-B-3).
>
>Upon passage of this legislation, going to the bank will be similar to
>going to the DMV, tax offices, or any government agency. The banks
>will be more under the control of the Executive Branch and inversely
>your bankers will be your government.
>
>Your bailout will also include bailout funds for foreign banks that do
>business in the US!
>
>While the bill does state they will report to a congressional
>committee every so often, there will be no oversight from Congress,
>courts, or the taxpayers.
>
>The secretary will be allowed to buy and sell mortgage securities and
>then use the funds from any sales to pay for administrative costs and
>other measures in this program, instead of returning the funds to the
>taxpayers.
>
>The real kicker is found in Section 8, where it reads "Decisions by
>the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable
>and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any
>court of law or any administrative agency."
>
>There is no sunset provision on many of the main powers granted by
>this legislation and thus these powers will become a permanent change
>to our government.
>
>Last, but not least, let us remember the Constitution of the United
>States. I know it does not mean much to the powers that be in
>Washington and their Globalist masters, but We, The People still
>revere and respect it.
>
>In the opinion of this author, the Congress does not have the power to
>transfer this much power to the Executive Branch, without amending the
>Constitution. This bailout of Wall Street robber barons is a massive
>restructuring or our government and financial systems that should not
>be made without modifying the Constitution.
>
>This move will change the entire power relationship between the
>Congress and the Executive Branch, as well as the power relationship
>between American citizens and our government. To give governmental
>powers and obligations to financial institutions over our populace is
>clearly outside of the realm of the Constitution.
>
>I have a better proposal than this bailout. Let's all get on the
>phones to members of Congress today. Let's get in the face of every
>candidate running for office and tell them to keep their stinking
>hands out of our pockets.
>
>No more power and money in exchange for their failures!
>
>Let the financial chips fall where they may and let the market
>corrections occur and if the consequences for the American public are
>dire, let us shift through the ashes and rubble of their greed and the
>excess created to determine how and why this happened. Let Congress
>use their investigatory power to launch inquiries to determine who
>should have their assets seized and who is going to prison for this
>treachery.
>
>This monopoly game is over. It is time to enforce the rules and start
>the game over. It is time for many of those in high places to go to
>jail, go directly to jail, do not pass Go!
>----
>William Gheen is the President of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC
>(ALIPAC) and the host of the Last Americans Standing Show. He has
>appeared regularly on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and CBS as well as on hundreds
>of talk radio shows across America. Mr. Gheen has over a decade of
>experience as a professional campaign consultant in North Carolina and
>has served previously as a Legislative Assistant, Lobbyist, and
>Assistant Sgt-At-Arms for the NC Senate. He graduated East Carolina
>University as Sr. Class President in 1995 with a Bachelor of Science
>degree in Political Science.
>
>READY TO TAKE ACTION WITH US TO BLOCK THE BAILOUT? IF SO, VISIT THIS
>LINK FOR ACTIVIST INSTRUCTIONS.
>http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-775214.html#775214
>
>DISCUSS THIS EXCLUSIVE ARTICLE WITH OUR ONLINE ACTIVISTS AT...
>http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-775022.html#775022
>
>Note: Associated Press Release titled "No More Power and Money for
>Government Failures! ALIPAC Opposes Bailout!"
>http://www.alipac.us/article3565.html
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What Would the U.S.A.'s Founding Fathers Do?
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
>liberties than standing armies.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
>corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
>a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
>there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
>original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
>forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
>arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
>except in their courage and despair ...
>
> The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
>proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
>than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
>to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> We in America do not have government by the majority.
>We have government by the majority who participate.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
>conscience to remain silent.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
>the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
>depositories.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
>keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
>against tyranny in government.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
>let us show them we can fight like men also.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going
>to do.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
>Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
>delineate and define you.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
>does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
>they draw their gains.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
>those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
>perverted it into tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson

Removing all illegal aliens would revitalzie the economy, spare the
environment via population growth, and save billions in law
enforcement sending and social services.
America needs a total rebuild not money pumped into a diseased system.

ted

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do Warehouse Stores Really Save You Money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/512851cfe1d68efd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 4:07 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <PeYCk.1570$MN3.1398@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two dozen
> frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
> them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>
> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945
> d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw
>
> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.

It depends on the person. You can't factor in the cost of a warehouse
club membership based on only one purchase. That's just silly. A family
with two or three kids living at home will definitely have different
needs then a single guy like me who has no kids at home.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 6:29 am
From: George

tin cup wrote:
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two
>> dozen frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel
>> shop and buy them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>>
>> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw
>>
>>
>> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.
> We go to Sam's to buy meat, because it is not preserved by weird
> chemicals, except for frozen chicken and a few odds and ends.
> We end up throwing half, of it, out because we can't use all, of a
> package in a day or so. They only sell large packages.
> So, no we don't save money.
> We now go to the Fresh Market and pay about one and half times as much
> but it gets eaten rather than thrown away. We actually save a bit.
> If you have a large family, of course you could probably save.
> I don't much care for going to one now as they have limited their
> catagories and choices to just a few.
> I use to go to look at what new buys they had in tools and gizmos I
> didn't actually need, most of the time.

We buy most of our meat at a large local market that has a meat cutting
dept in house. None of their meat is the embalmed walmart style "fresh"
meat and the same with their poultry which is all quality Farmer's Pride
brand. Prices are really good and we can buy whatever quantity we want.
They also have a fantastic produce dept. So the warehouse places are no
value for us.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 11:02 am
From: Lou

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>
> "Bret_Halford" <bret@sybase.com> wrote in message
> news:d87c1a0e-b7d1-46ff-a040-514581af98e7@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 25, 8:59 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two
>> dozen
>> frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
>> them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>>
>> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7...
>>
>> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.
>
> Depends.
>
> Are the bagels the only thing you are buying at the warehouse?
>
> What are your transportation costs to the warehouse?
> To the local bagel shop?
> Note that IRS is currently estimating the cost of operating a car at
> 58.5 cents a mile,
> and my guess is the IRS will be estimating conservatively.
>
> What is your time worth? How much (if any) time do you free up
> by going to the (local? distant?) warehouse once vs. the local bagel
> shop 24 times?
>
> Are the frozen bagels really comparable to the (presumably) fresh
> bagels from
> the local shop?
>
> The real brain-buster is why you don't bake your own and just buy
> flour and oil in bulk.
>
> ------
>
> bagels aren't as easy to make as you'd think. plus flour and oil will
> go rancid after a time.
>
I've made them - it's not all that hard, though I'd say it's not worth
it if you want only a couple. The overall time it takes is kind of long
(you have to wait for the yeast to raise the dough) but the actual work
time isn't bad - depending on how far away the store is, the actual work
time might be less than a trip to the store.

'Course, if you go to the store weekly anyway, the extra time to pick up
bagels is negligible.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 2:27 pm
From: aemeijers

Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article <PeYCk.1570$MN3.1398@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Consider this brain buster: You go to a discount warehouse and buy two dozen
>> frozen bagels for, say, $9.60. Or you go to your local bagel shop and buy
>> them for 75 cents apiece. Which one saves you more money?
>>
>> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=fcefef8c5f474b7987958945
>> d58f864a&siteid=nwhpf&sguid=LlOmLCZmMkSOlLZa0_8Pmw
>>
>> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.
>
> It depends on the person. You can't factor in the cost of a warehouse
> club membership based on only one purchase. That's just silly. A family
> with two or three kids living at home will definitely have different
> needs then a single guy like me who has no kids at home.
I also live alone, and the membership easily pays for itself for me,
most years. You have to be careful and maintain awareness of competing
prices, though. Sometimes the warehouse stores are as much or more for
like items. I probably pay for the membership just on the discount gas,
if I catch them on days that they are 7-10 cents cheaper than the guy
down the street. They are definitely cheaper on tires. Tech toys,
usually, if you don't mind last year's model. Food, not so much, since
they carry few things in packages small enough for people living alone.
Basic clothing items, once in a while. 'No-frills' mattresses and
appliances, almost always the best price in town, but limited selection.

Plus, since I can't stand malls, it gives me a place to do my (doctor
ordered) daily walk, when the weather is cold and nasty.

--
aem sends...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: gold vs financial crisis
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/351a6932b67a5f8f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 6:27 am
From: metalman

Gold Vs Oncoming Economic Crisis
Unless you live in a cave Im sure you have noticed the economic bad
news daily hapenning in the world, especially in the United States.
This blog is dedicated to the free and open exchange of information
relating to purchasing and investing in gold and other precious metals
as a viable option for avoiding the dollars collapse.
Check out my blog at
http://goldvseconomiccrisis.blogspot.com/
Any comments much appreciated
Thank you

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Have you had a gas furnace installed in past 5 years? Need feedback
please....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/770153a7f68a2569?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 9:06 am
From: OhioGuy

We have ~ 40 year old Chrysler Airtemp furnaces in both sides of our
double. They were about 60% efficient when they were new, and now we
are probably lucky if they are 50% efficient. We got hit with heating
bills of over $300 here in Ohio last winter. Now I've heard that the
cost of natural gas may be going up 25%, and that our local utility is
switching over to a new policy where they will be changing what they
charge every month with the market, instead of changing once a year as
they did in the past. That sort of scares me - especially if there is a
shortage or something.

Obviously, the furnaces we have are old. They've been kept
maintained, since we have people come out and clean the ducts every 2-3
years, and check the furnace every year or two. However, they are just
plain inefficient, and after more than 40 years, it is about time to
replace them.

One of the reasons I kept putting it off was because I thought it was
going to cost us between $3,000 and $3,500 per side, so a grand total of
$6k to $7k. I had some places come by and give us bids on what they
would charge, and was pleasantly surprised. I got bids for putting in
an 80% efficient furnace, which could pretty much go in where our
current one is without any changes. I also got bids for a 92% efficient
furnace, which would require PVC outlet and have water drainage.

Best bid so far is from a place called Joe's Heating & Air. They
have a 90K BTU 80% efficient furnace they will install on both sides of
our place for $2,300. They also have a 92% efficient furnace they will
install on both sides of our place for $3,500. (so each bid is for two
furnaces) They offer about an 8% discount for doing 2 with the higher
efficiency furnaces, and an 11% discount for 2 of the more efficient
furnaces. (rather than just 1)

We will likely be living here this winter, but moving next summer, so
personally, we will get whatever benefit from lower heating bills this
winter only. After that, it will be a rental property.

Obviously, I'd like to save $1,200 up front. However, we also like
the idea of the furnace being more efficient, and whoever is living here
having an extra $25 a month they won't have to spend on their heating
bills. Complicating things is that I've been told the more efficient
furnaces tend to need repair work more often. Some technicians have
told me that, while others have said they don't see much difference.
Mostly it just comes down to repair - I don't want to pay more for a
furnace that is going to have problems twice as often.

So, I'm hoping that some of you folks can give me some feedback. I'd
like to hear from anyone who has had their gas furnace replaced in the
last 5 years or so. Please let us know if it is the standard 80%
efficient or the higher 90%+. Then let us know if you've had repair
issues. I'll use the info to try to make a better decision on whether
to get the cheaper or more expensive model.

Thanks!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 11:28 am
From: "JonquilJan"

Had gas (propane) furnace replaced about a year ago. 80% efficient
(couldn't afford to go much higher) total coast - including installation
and removal of old furnace - was $1618.18 which included all labor and
taxes. Will be having the installer come next month to check things out and
replace filters (difficult for me as I am disabled).

Old furnace had issues with the burners (safety issues) and was so old
replacements couldn't be found (even universal burners were not available).
Same furnace as when I moved here in 1981.

In live in northern New York state.

First time in years I have not been shivering under the covers at night.

As for the cost of fuel (propane) have price locked in for the season with a
payment up front and monthly payments for 10 months.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions on dentist conduct
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a04b6ef8411a621?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 9:11 am
From: Simplicio

> It doesn't make them my bitch, but it does mean I'm paying for
> ownership of time, good-faith, honest application of skills and
> consideration. You give someone money, you're supposed to get
> something for it. I believe this goes beyond the technical application
> of dentistry. I realize you're hypothesizing but I believe it would be
> hyperbole to characterize my particular expectations as unreasonable.
>
> I also believe it's possible that some people can fall into a mindset
> where they see their customers as so many cash cows in the cattle gate
> and their focus is going through the process as uninterrupted as
> possible and the "peripheral" stuff becomes less of a consideration. I
> didn't have 20 questions about toothpaste as someone else described, I
> had a specific short, technical question. I believe wanting to be
> informed is within the scope of reason. I have a somewhat technical
> mind, some 80-year old grandma or housewife might not think of the
> ramifications of a particular type of filling, I did.
>
> They're in a particular circumstance where there's not a lot of
> accountability. They don't have a boss to register a complaint with,
> as I understand it the professional oversight groups are something of
> a joke. Unless they really screw up there's no litigation option. I
> found out later that one of the previous DMO dentists I had gone to
> has a long-running rep in the area as being a hack, yet he's still in
> business, which I've heard is a common tale with DMO dentists.
>
> And once he's sitting on a healthy bankroll he may feel less
> motivation to be that concerned. I don't know the guy outside of his
> office, he may have been a prick all along and just hid it well.
>
> And they're also in a position to milk the situation. They say you
> need a root canal. I don't ever see any closeups of where the decay
> has intruded on the root. Or how do I know he doesn't do a filling in
> such a way as to promote future decay and a year or so down the road
> "oopsie, you need a crown/root canal". *Cha-ching* All the while
> people know them as good old Dr. X, he gets civic awards, is on the
> city beautification committee, etc.
>
> > I will bend over
> > backwards to deliver comfortable, quality care and treat you
> > like I would like to be treated. Abuse that relationship from
> > your side, and things might change.
>
> I don't find wanting to ask a question that would take 2 - 3 minutes
> tops to resolve to be abusing a relationship or in any way overly
> demanding. I believe well within reason to someone who's willing to
> "bend over backwards" to treat his patients well.

This would make a great reading passage on the SAT's. The theme of
this passage is:
a) Courtesy is a professional must
b) Dentists shouldn't get civic awards
c) Litigation against dentists is never a good option
d) ......

The truth is that these days every time you get on the phone people
are rude. I've even had people just cut
me off when they don't like a particular question or I ask "too many
questions", (if I don't ask their name first). In one instance I need
a medical fax sent. The secretary said she sent it, I went to the fax
outlet, said they didn't get it. Asked the secretary to send it again,
said she would, went back to the fax outlet said they didn't get
it.called up the secretary a third time....finally next day she
admitted the fax lines were messed up going through the main
switchboard in the buildng and she had known, but it wasn't her
offices problem because the phone lines coming out of there office
were okay...she wasn't lying because she WAS "sending" the fax... Kids
are coming out of high schools and colleges, these days thinking that
this is normal and that is HOW you are supposed to do your job!

There was a time in the US when salespeople and professionals not only
were courteous but they feared the
consumer. I think that time is long gone. Utimately it is related to
the downfall of the middle class and salespeople
and professionals maybe not getting payed enough. On the other hand if
you've ever worked on an assembyline
type job and know how rude customers can be, and dentistry is an
assembly line, the fact the workers, such as
cashiers can be so rude without getting fired may be a thing to be
admired!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 9:16 am
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Simplicio wrote:
>
>> It doesn't make them my bitch, but it does mean I'm paying for
>> ownership of time, good-faith, honest application of skills and
>> consideration. You give someone money, you're supposed to get
>> something for it. I believe this goes beyond the technical application
>> of dentistry. I realize you're hypothesizing but I believe it would be
>> hyperbole to characterize my particular expectations as unreasonable.
>>
>> I also believe it's possible that some people can fall into a mindset
>> where they see their customers as so many cash cows in the cattle gate
>> and their focus is going through the process as uninterrupted as
>> possible and the "peripheral" stuff becomes less of a consideration. I
>> didn't have 20 questions about toothpaste as someone else described, I
>> had a specific short, technical question. I believe wanting to be
>> informed is within the scope of reason. I have a somewhat technical
>> mind, some 80-year old grandma or housewife might not think of the
>> ramifications of a particular type of filling, I did.
>>
>> They're in a particular circumstance where there's not a lot of
>> accountability. They don't have a boss to register a complaint with,
>> as I understand it the professional oversight groups are something of
>> a joke. Unless they really screw up there's no litigation option. I
>> found out later that one of the previous DMO dentists I had gone to
>> has a long-running rep in the area as being a hack, yet he's still in
>> business, which I've heard is a common tale with DMO dentists.
>>
>> And once he's sitting on a healthy bankroll he may feel less
>> motivation to be that concerned. I don't know the guy outside of his
>> office, he may have been a prick all along and just hid it well.
>>
>> And they're also in a position to milk the situation. They say you
>> need a root canal. I don't ever see any closeups of where the decay
>> has intruded on the root. Or how do I know he doesn't do a filling in
>> such a way as to promote future decay and a year or so down the road
>> "oopsie, you need a crown/root canal". *Cha-ching* All the while
>> people know them as good old Dr. X, he gets civic awards, is on the
>> city beautification committee, etc.
>>
>>> I will bend over
>>> backwards to deliver comfortable, quality care and treat you
>>> like I would like to be treated. Abuse that relationship from
>>> your side, and things might change.
>> I don't find wanting to ask a question that would take 2 - 3 minutes
>> tops to resolve to be abusing a relationship or in any way overly
>> demanding. I believe well within reason to someone who's willing to
>> "bend over backwards" to treat his patients well.
>
> This would make a great reading passage on the SAT's. The theme of
> this passage is:
> a) Courtesy is a professional must
> b) Dentists shouldn't get civic awards
> c) Litigation against dentists is never a good option
> d) ......
>
> The truth is that these days every time you get on the phone people
> are rude. I've even had people just cut
> me off when they don't like a particular question or I ask "too many
> questions", (if I don't ask their name first). In one instance I need
> a medical fax sent. The secretary said she sent it, I went to the fax
> outlet, said they didn't get it. Asked the secretary to send it again,
> said she would, went back to the fax outlet said they didn't get
> it.called up the secretary a third time....finally next day she
> admitted the fax lines were messed up going through the main
> switchboard in the buildng and she had known, but it wasn't her
> offices problem because the phone lines coming out of there office
> were okay...she wasn't lying because she WAS "sending" the fax... Kids
> are coming out of high schools and colleges, these days thinking that
> this is normal and that is HOW you are supposed to do your job!
>
> There was a time in the US when salespeople and professionals not only
> were courteous but they feared the
> consumer. I think that time is long gone. Utimately it is related to
> the downfall of the middle class and salespeople
> and professionals maybe not getting payed enough. On the other hand if
> you've ever worked on an assembyline
> type job and know how rude customers can be, and dentistry is an
> assembly line, the fact the workers, such as
> cashiers can be so rude without getting fired may be a thing to be
> admired!
>

That's REALLY looking on the bright side, Clinton!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

==============================================================================
TOPIC: City reappraised our house up 31% !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8459c124a40d2583?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 9:21 am
From: phil scott

On Sep 25, 10:10 am, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote in message
>
> news:48dbad17$0$13725$38cefb40@news.westelcom.com...
>
>
>
> > My property/home was reappraised last year. Other than times when I had
> > sold some land, the appraised values had only been going up for the past
> > 27
> > years. One instance, appraiser came through and said the two small barns
> > on
> > my property across the road had never been added to the value.
> > Interesting
> > because they had been there for decades before I purchased the property.
>
> > Reappraisal dropped the value 45%. My school taxes this year were
> > $3.78 -=
> > and yes there is a decimal point in there. And that was for the library.
> > and I have the state STAR exemption (low income) and also get more
> > exemption
> > for my age (69).
>
> > At least one advantage of being old and poor.
>
> > JonquilJan
>
> Wow! I know you're in upstate NY too, but I wish I lived in your county. My
> house is assessed (full-value) for $150k, and between school and property
> taxes I'm paying almost $5k a year. Seems excessively high, especially since
> I'm in the boonies with virtually no services. There's no garbage pickup, no
> town dump (so you have to hire a garbage service), no sewers, no gas lines,
> although we did finally get water lines (for which we pay extra), and a
> non-paid all volunteer fire/rescue dept. What exactly do they need all that
> money for?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

study figures on population relative to money spent on govt and you
will see govt bloat is in the
80% range.... the govt figures though are carefully hidden, and not
tabulated except for their interert.

getting the actual figurs is possible though, especially at the local
level... 755 or more goes for
police and fire by the way in most cases.... iwth those retiring at
age 51 if they started at age 21...with 150,000 dollars a year
or more in many cases (chiefs at a quarter of a million, vested in
many cases affer just 2 years, so they quit and revest with
another city)....

city of Vallejo calif just went bankrupt citing these figures... you
should be able to find the news reports.

Phil scott

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 11:11 am
From: Lou

The Real Bev wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> Same process where I live. They outsourced it to Century 21. They
>> decided all of the values based on 1/1/08. Our taxes will go up over
>> 45% starting 1/1/2009. They pretty much told you what you need to do.
>> You need to schedule the informal hearing and offer some clear defense
>> with a sound basis (gross computational error etc) or hire a licensed
>> appraiser. If you can't offer some argument then you will pay.
>
> A friend who moved to New York told us about the "Welcome Stranger" tax.
> When you bought a house the assessment was something ridiculous
> which, if you didn't protest, you paid for the rest of your life or
> until you moved; if you protested it was immediately decreased.
>
>> The only real thing to do is what everyone talks about but does
>> nothing about and throw *all* of the current politicians under the
>> bus, have strict term limits and demand accountability.
>
> Or copy California's Proposition 13, designed to severely limit
> increases unless the property changes hands. The only way to keep them
> from wasting our tax money is to keep them from collecting it.
>
While I sympathize with the circumstances that led to Proposition 13,
the result just doesn't seem right to me. Two homeowners with identical
houses on the same street can end up paying hugely different tax amounts.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Latest Problematic Foods From China Were Heinz Baby Cereal And
Silang House Steamed Potato Wasabi Crackers.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d0dd45c4c85f9dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 11:45 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:18:54 -0500, My Name <no@e-mail.com.invalid>
wrote:

>The Christian Science Monitor Sep 26, 6:14 PM EDT
>Baby cereal latest problem in China milk scandal
>By ANITA CHANG Associated Press Writer
>
>BEIJING (AP) -- The list of products caught in China's tainted
>milk scandal grew Friday to include baby cereal in Hong Kong
>and snack foods in Japan, while Taiwan reported three children
>and a mother with kidney stones in the island's first cases
>possibly linked to the crisis.
>
>The Japanese government also said it had suspended imports of
>milk and milk products from China, where some 54,000 children
>have developed kidney stones or other illnesses after drinking
>baby formula contaminated with the industrial chemical
>melamine. Four deaths have been blamed on the tainted milk.
>
>The latest problematic foods were Heinz baby cereal and Silang
>House steamed potato wasabi crackers. The Hong Kong government
>said in a statement Friday it found traces of melamine in the
>products, which were both made in mainland China.
>
>Hong Kong urged the manufacturers to stop selling the products
>in the Chinese territory. Pittsburgh, Pa.-based Heinz ordered
>a recall of the baby cereal as a precautionary measure
>following the government's announcement, it said in a
>statement on its Web site.
>
>Hundreds of international food companies have set up
>operations in China in recent years, exposing them to the
>country's notorious product safety problems. Melamine-tainted
>products have turned up in an increasing number of Chinese-
>made exports abroad - from candies to yogurt to rice balls.
>
>In Japan, the Marudai Food Co. pulled its cream buns, meat
>buns and creamed corn crepes from supermarkets a week ago and
>tests have found traces of contamination in several products,
>Japanese Health and Welfare Ministry official Mina Kojima said
>Friday.
>
>So far, there were no reports of health problems stemming from
>the contamination, she said. Marudai has sold more than
>300,000 of the products, most of which are believed to have
>been consumed.
>
>News of that contamination came after the Chinese territory of
>Macau said it detected melamine at 24 times the safety limit
>in products from another Japan-based company, Koala's March
>cookies made by Lotte China Foods Co. The company is a member
>of a Tokyo-based conglomerate, Lotte Group.
>
>An official at Lotte (China) Investment Co. Ltd. in Shanghai
>said Friday previous inspections had not shown any problems.
>
>"But now that it tested positive in Macau, we find it
>necessary to do the inspections all over again," said Guo
>Hongming, a legal assistant in Lotte Shanghai's corporate
>planning department.
>
>Some Hong Kong supermarkets pulled the chocolate-filled
>cookies off shelves Friday after the announcement by Macau
>authorities late Thursday. Cookie packages list whole milk
>powder as an ingredient.
>
>Only some types of milk powder and milk have been recalled in
>mainland China so far, but the maker of one of China's most
>popular candies said Friday it had halted sales because of
>suspected melamine contamination. White Rabbit candies have
>already been pulled from shelves around Asia and in Britain.
>
>Ge Junjie, a vice president of Bright Foods (Group) Co. Ltd.,
>was quoted as saying by the official Xinhua News Agency that
>the company was waiting for test results from the Shanghai
>Entry-Exit Inspection and Quarantine Bureau.
>
>"We decided to halt all sales of White Rabbit candy, although
>the test results have not yet come out," Ge said. Bright
>Foods' subsidiary Guangshengyuan produces White Rabbit.
>
>Meanwhile, Taiwanese authorities reported that three children
>who consumed Chinese milk formula had developed kidney stones,
>and doctors were checking whether their illnesses were linked
>to tainted products.
>
>The two 3-year-old girls and a 1-year-old boy traveled
>frequently between Taiwan and China with their parents, said
>Liu Yi-lien, health chief of the Ilan county government in
>eastern Taiwan. One of the girls' mothers also has kidney
>stones, he said.
>
>"They have all consumed Chinese milk, but more tests are
>needed to establish the link to their kidney stones," Liu
>said.
>
>The cases are the first reports of illnesses on the island
>that could be related to tainted Chinese milk products. Six
>children have also become ill from melamine-tainted products
>in the Chinese territories of Hong Kong and Macau.
>
>Still, the World Health Organization said it did not expect
>the number of victims to grow dramatically.
>
>WHO China representative Hans Troedsson said public awareness
>of the issue meant many young children were getting health
>checks and avoiding tainted products.
>
>"I think we will see some more cases, but not the high number
>like so far," he said. "I think the recall and more thorough
>investigation and testing are now starting to eliminate some
>of these contaminated products from coming out to the public."
>
>On Thursday, the European Union banned imports of baby food
>containing Chinese milk. The move by the 27-nation EU adds to
>the growing list of countries that have banned or recalled
>Chinese dairy products because of the contamination.
>
>Health experts say ingesting a small amount of melamine poses
>no danger, but in larger doses, the chemical - used to make
>plastics and fertilizer - can cause kidney stones and lead to
>kidney failure. Infants are particularly vulnerable.
>
>Chinese suppliers trying to cut costs are believed to have
>diluted their milk while adding melamine because its nitrogen
>content can fool tests aimed at verifying protein levels.
>
>---
>
>Associated Press writers Mari Yamaguchi in Tokyo, Dikky Sinn
>in Hong Kong and Annie Huang in Taipei contributed to this
>report.
>
>http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_CHINA_TAINTED_MI
>LK?SITE=MABOC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-09-26-
>18-14-10

It appears that this old whore of a country has to outsource it's
basic food production! No wonder the former icon of America is called
"Uncle Suckemoff"!

ted

==============================================================================
TOPIC: get some money for that old damaged cell phone.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4c3a402deeb6f0b7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 12:48 pm
From: bargaindepot

go to http://www.yagoodle.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RECALL: Mr Brown coffee, White Rabbit candy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9dd541f1671adbc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 27 2008 4:32 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01891.html

FDA Statement

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Statement
September 26, 2008

Media Inquiries:
Stephanie Kwisnek, 301-827-0955
Consumer Inquiries:
888-INFO-FDA

FDA Updates Health Information Advisory on Melamine Contamination

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is alerting consumers that
seven Mr. Brown instant coffee and milk tea products are being
recalled by the Taiwanese company, King Car Food Industrial Co. Ltd.,
due to possible contamination with melamine. King Car Food Industrial
Co. used a non-dairy creamer manufactured by Shandong Duqing Inc.,
China, which was found to be contaminated with melamine. The recalled
products are:

* Mr. Brown Mandheling Blend Instant Coffee (3-in-1)
* Mr. Brown Arabica Instant Coffee (3-in-1)
* Mr. Brown Blue Mountain Blend Instant Coffee (3-in-1)
* Mr. Brown Caramel Macchiato Instant Coffee (3-in-1)
* Mr. Brown French Vanilla Instant Coffee (3-in-1)
* Mr. Brown Mandhling Blend instant Coffee (2-in-1)
* Mr. Brown Milk Tea (3-in-1)

The FDA recommends that consumers not consume any of the above Mr.
Brown instant coffee and milk tea products. The FDA also recommends
that retailers and foodservice operators remove the products from sale
or service.

As of September 25, 2008, the FDA testing of milk based products
imported into the United States from China has not found melamine
contamination.

The FDA is working with regulatory agencies in other countries. The
New Zealand Food Safety Authority reports that its testing of White
Rabbit Creamy Candies has shown melamine contamination at high levels.
In light of the widespread contamination of milk and milk-based
products in China and the New Zealand Food Safety Authority's finding,
the FDA recommends that consumers not eat White Rabbit Creamy Candy
and that retailers and foodservice operations remove the product from
sale or service.

To date, the FDA is not aware of any illnesses in the United States
stemming from consumption of either White Rabbit Creamy Candy or the
Mr. Brown instant coffee and milk tea products.

Individuals who have experienced any health problems after consuming
either White Rabbit Creamy Candy or any of the identified Mr. Brown
coffee and tea products are advised to contact their health care
professional.
Background

On September 12, 2008, in light of reports from China of melamine
contaminated infant formula, the FDA issued a Health Information
Advisory to assure the American public that there is no known threat
of contamination in infant formula manufactured by companies that have
met the requirements to sell such products in the United States. That
advisory also warned members of Chinese communities in the United
States that infant formula manufactured in China, possibly available
for purchase at Asian markets, could pose a risk to infants.

The FDA had contacted the companies who manufacture infant formula for
distribution in the United States and received, from the companies,
information that they are not importing formula or sourcing milk-based
materials from China.

At the same time, the FDA—in conjunction with state and local officials
—began a nation-wide investigation to check Asian markets for Chinese
manufactured infant formula that may have been brought into the United
States. In particular, this effort focused on areas of the country
with large Chinese communities, such as Los Angeles, San Francisco,
Seattle and New York. To date, investigators have visited more than
1,400 retail markets and have not found Chinese infant formula present
on shelves in these markets.

The FDA also advises consumers not to purchase infant formula
manufactured in China from Internet sites or from other sources.

The FDA has taken, and will continue to take, proactive measures to
help ensure the safety of the American food supply. In conjunction
with state and local officials, the FDA will continue to check Asian
markets for food items that are imported from China and that could
contain a significant amount of milk or milk proteins. In addition,
the FDA has broadened its domestic and import sampling and testing of
milk-derived ingredients and finished food products containing milk,
such as candies, desserts, and beverages that could contain these
ingredients from Chinese sources. Milk-derived ingredients include
whole milk powder, non-fat milk powder, whey powder, lactose powder,
and casein.

In addition to state and local governments, the FDA is working in
close cooperation with Customs and Border Protection within the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Department of Agriculture,
other federal agencies, and foreign governments.

#
Additional Information

QFCO, Inc. Recalls White Rabbit Candy Because of Possible Health Risk
(Sept. 26, 2008)
http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/qfco09_08.html

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Saturday, September 27, 2008

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