Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Would you buy this car?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a2eb58b3f859bd39?hl=en
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== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 15 2008 10:41 pm
From: rst0wxyz

On Oct 15, 10:25 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "A "That One"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
> >news:georgewkspam-38CA12.07464115102008@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> > So, if it can be charged from a wall plug, what's the charge time,
>
> That obviously depends on the charger.
>
> > and what's the range per charge?
>
> It should be as good as a full charge from the solar panel.
>
> Bet they're lying about that tho.

Support your local electric auto maker. Buy Tesla. Built in San Jose
with a over 200-mile range for a single charge, for only $109,000.
Tesla is laying off workers.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 1:22 am
From: phil scott

On Oct 15, 12:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote
>
> > Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>> The mini car produced by Zhejiang's 001 Group was designed
> >>> to target the increasingly serious energy crisis. The group has
> >>> so far produced over 10 such cars and each of them will sell
> >>> for 38,000 yuan (US $5,560).
> >>>http://www.china.org.cn/environment/health_green_living/2008-10/14/co...
> > Sounds good to me.
>
> More fool you.
>
> > When can I buy one in the US?
>
> Never, you watch. Cant possibly meet the safety standards for starters.
>
> >> Let's see, the car will travel roughly 93 miles after sitting in the
> >> sun for 30 hours. Taking nighttime, cloudy days, and seasonal
> >> variations into account, you might average 6 hours of sun a day.
> >> My round trip daily commute is 80 miles, 5 days a week.
> >> Looks like I'd need 5 of these cars just to get back and forth to work.
> > Or one, with a wall plug :-)
>
> Bet it wouldnt even do his range with a wall plug.

the solar panel area can be trippled with fold outs etc... and you
would have grid voltage available to charge also... for china, often
not a lot travel it might work pretty well... in the US we drive way
too much for that.

Hybreds work though. a big deal... adding just a very small gas
engine, say 15 hp, would allow the car to travel at 30 mph almost
indefinitely in a pinch.. with stored solar as a boost you might get a
range of 50 or 100 miles at speeds over 50 mph... that would work.

its a first interation...no doubt the hybed features will be
added...GM had better get their ass in gear or china will eat their
lunch on this. imo

Phil scott (mech/electrical engr)

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 1:26 am
From: phil scott

On Oct 15, 7:01 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "A "That One"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in messagenews:georgewkspam-38CA12.07464115102008@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <b9b0e485-5a29-418c-b3a8-1b32f3898...@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The mini car produced by Zhejiang's 001 Group was designed to target
> >> the increasingly serious energy crisis. The group has so far produced
> >> over 10 such cars and each of them will sell for 38,000 yuan (US
> >> $5,560).
>
> >>http://www.china.org.cn/environment/health_green_living/2008-10/14/co...
> >> 09473.htm
>
> > ya know the first Prius could not be charged from a solar panel. or your
> > home outlet.
> > they changed that.,
> > I assume this attempt can be charged at work or at home form the house
> > current or a battery charger.
> > or will be by popular demand.
> > No.?
>
> So, if it can be charged from a wall plug, what's the charge time, and
> what's the range per charge?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

charge time etc is a function of what you choose to install... not
much of an issue, better simply runs costs up marginally.... the
chinese will make a hybred out of this...most car companies are hot on
such a program...with superb offerings, but at 30k or so... the
chinese wlll come in at a fifth of that... meeting US and world safety
standards shouldnt be an issue.

other car companies do it all the time.

Phil scott

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 1:28 am
From: phil scott

On Oct 15, 10:41 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 10:25 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > "A "That One"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
> > >news:georgewkspam-38CA12.07464115102008@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> > > So, if it can be charged from a wall plug, what's the charge time,
>
> > That obviously depends on the charger.
>
> > > and what's the range per charge?
>
> > It should be as good as a full charge from the solar panel.
>
> > Bet they're lying about that tho.
>
> Support your local electric auto maker. Buy Tesla. Built in San Jose
> with a over 200-mile range for a single charge, for only $109,000.
> Tesla is laying off workers.

the tesla is a world class sports car though... a humble peoples car
neednt be so expensive.. in the 20k for US mfgr at our labor rates...
5k or so in china at their labor rates.

Phil scott

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 2:32 am
From: "Rod Speed"

phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote
>>> Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>> James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>>> The mini car produced by Zhejiang's 001 Group was designed
>>>>> to target the increasingly serious energy crisis. The group has
>>>>> so far produced over 10 such cars and each of them will sell
>>>>> for 38,000 yuan (US $5,560).
>>>>> http://www.china.org.cn/environment/health_green_living/2008-10/14/co...
>>>>> Sounds good to me.

>> More fool you.

>>> When can I buy one in the US?

>> Never, you watch. Cant possibly meet the safety standards for starters.

>>>> Let's see, the car will travel roughly 93 miles after sitting in
>>>> the sun for 30 hours. Taking nighttime, cloudy days, and seasonal
>>>> variations into account, you might average 6 hours of sun a day.
>>>> My round trip daily commute is 80 miles, 5 days a week.
>>>> Looks like I'd need 5 of these cars just to get back and forth to
>>>> work. Or one, with a wall plug :-)

>> Bet it wouldnt even do his range with a wall plug.

> the solar panel area can be trippled with fold outs etc...

It doesnt appear to have those.

> and you would have grid voltage available to charge also...

You dont know that last.

> for china, often not a lot travel it might work pretty well...

Dunno, the pollution levels might well see the solar a lot worse than usual.

> in the US we drive way too much for that.

> Hybreds work though.

It isnt a hybrid.

> a big deal... adding just a very small gas engine, say 15 hp, would
> allow the car to travel at 30 mph almost indefinitely in a pinch..

Fraid not.

> with stored solar as a boost you might get a range of 50
> or 100 miles at speeds over 50 mph... that would work.

Not at that price it wouldnt.

> its a first interation...no doubt the hybed features will be added...

I doubt it. It appears to be a pure electric car.

It might well have grid charging added, but I bet it never becomes
a hybrid and it wouldnt be anything like that price if it did.

And it STILL wouldnt be registerable in any first world country either.

> GM had better get their ass in gear or china will eat their lunch on this.

Bet it doesnt. Bet its just another complete dud that never gets manufactured in volume.

It makes absolutely no sense to be solar powered. Bet it isnt even viable when grid powered.

> imo

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 2:36 am
From: "Rod Speed"

rst0wxyz <rst0wxyz@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> "A "That One"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote

>>> So, if it can be charged from a wall plug, what's the charge time,

>> That obviously depends on the charger.

>>> and what's the range per charge?

>> It should be as good as a full charge from the solar panel.

>> Bet they're lying about that tho.

> Support your local electric auto maker.

No thanks. I'll stick with gasoline and might add LPG if the gasoline
price goes thru the roof. I deliberately chose a very economical
gasoline powered car and the price of gasoline would have to be
about 5 times higher than what it peaked at to bother with LPG.

> Buy Tesla.

No thanks.

> Built in San Jose with a over 200-mile range for a single charge, for only $109,000.

That is a terminally stupid price. Its 10 times what I just paid for a brand new gasoline powered car.

> Tesla is laying off workers.

Their problem. At that price that will only continue.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 2:37 am
From: "Rod Speed"

phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 7:01 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "A "That One"" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:georgewkspam-38CA12.07464115102008@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> In article
>>> <b9b0e485-5a29-418c-b3a8-1b32f3898...@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The mini car produced by Zhejiang's 001 Group was designed to
>>>> target the increasingly serious energy crisis. The group has so
>>>> far produced over 10 such cars and each of them will sell for
>>>> 38,000 yuan (US $5,560).
>>
>>>> http://www.china.org.cn/environment/health_green_living/2008-10/14/co...
>>>> 09473.htm
>>
>>> ya know the first Prius could not be charged from a solar panel. or
>>> your home outlet.
>>> they changed that.,
>>> I assume this attempt can be charged at work or at home form the
>>> house current or a battery charger.
>>> or will be by popular demand.
>>> No.?
>>
>> So, if it can be charged from a wall plug, what's the charge time,
>> and
>> what's the range per charge?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> charge time etc is a function of what you choose to install... not
> much of an issue, better simply runs costs up marginally.... the
> chinese will make a hybred out of this...most car companies are hot on
> such a program...with superb offerings, but at 30k or so... the
> chinese wlll come in at a fifth of that... meeting US and world safety
> standards shouldnt be an issue.
>
> other car companies do it all the time.

Not with such a flimsy vehicle they dont.

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TOPIC: complete internet privacy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e4804b294f0fa5a3?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 12:21 am
From: "sfsfloan.cn"

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TOPIC: Do Warehouse Stores Really Save You Money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/512851cfe1d68efd?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 12:28 am
From: SoCalMike

Derald wrote:
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i'm generally a disciplined shopper.
> Well, as your citation points out, it's equally important to be a
> disciplined consumer. Some years ago, while tire-shopping, I realized
> that Sam's club has nothing to offer me.

not even tires?

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TOPIC: hoodie china paypal www.paypalsell.com paypal polo lacoste af dg ca ed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/69e1fc4c90562f11?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 12:53 am
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TOPIC: FACE REALITY: Will you and your loved ones survive what's coming? Since
2001, **4X** as many Americans killed by illegal aliens stateside than in both
wars combined
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1efc0b81823cc920?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 2:18 am
From: whudson1903@gmail.com

On Oct 15, 7:10 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"
<guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> *WHOEVER* wins the election, friends, things are going to get worse.
> FAR, FAR worse.
>
> With a new economic depression looming -- one said by numerous
> economic forecasters that will be *much* worse than the Great
> Depression, in fact -- murderous attacks by illegal aliens against
> U.S. citizens WILL increase dramatically from their already record-
> setting levels. Since 2001 4 times as many Americans have been killed
> stateside in their own country by illegal aliens than have been killed
> in the Iraq and Afghan wars combined.
>
> Do NOT be surprised when armed illegal aliens from profoundly
> violent cultures cut in front of you on the bread line sometime in the
> future. I myself grew up in a working class "ethnic" New York City
> neighborhood during the 1960s but am absolutely *shocked* at the
> illegal alien violence I read about every day of the week in Southern
> California where I now live. As Anthony Bologna and his two sons found
> out several months ago in California (see Frosty Wooldrige's essay
> below), merely ticking an illegal alien driver off -- and many
> millions of illegals now drive all over America -- can result in your
> being murdered in cold blood by a hot-headed "macho" illegal alien
> from Mexico or some other "Latin" [sic] country, typically by an
> illegal (as in the Bolognas' case) who already had *many* prior
> arrests for *serious* crimes (up to and including violent felonies) in
> the U.S.
>
> Barack Obama -- an *extreme* advocate for granting illegal aliens'
> most outrageous demands -- is now in the lead to become the next U.S.
> president. After you read the following frightful essay by retired
> teacher Frosty Wooldrige do yourself a favor and view the film (made
> by a Hillary Clinton Democrat) "We Will Not Be Silenced" athttp://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/video/index.htmto learn about
> the actual Maoist tactics Obama's supporters employed to defeat
> Hillary in the primaries. They are right out of the Cultural
> Revolution, complete with actual attacks and bullying of the elderly,
> just as was done in China's Cultural Revolution during the 1960s in
> which many millions were killed (Obama's unrepentant Communist friend
> William Ayers was bombing U.S. Government buildings and firebombing
> the home of a family with small children in New York City during the
> same period.)
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> SICKENING DEADLY LEGACY OF SANCTUARY ....
>
> by Frosty Wooldridgewww.frostywooldridge.com
>
> ....SHIELDING ILLEGAL ALIENS FROM DEPORTATION - In the "War on
> Terror", four times more Americans died at the hands of illegal
> aliens ....
>
> .... within the United States than U.S. soldiers in Iraq and
> Afghanistan--for the past seven years. Illegal aliens continue their
> own 'killing zone' against Americans in every corner of American
> society.
>
> Three years ago, an illegal alien, after being stopped by police and
> released three times, Gomez-Garcia, executed Denver Officer Don Young
> in Denver, Colorado. Another illegal alien, Francisco Montero, with
> 11 prior stops for drunk driving, killed Dale Englerth in Boulder,
> Colorado. Yet another illegal alien killed Officer Brian Jackson in
> Dallas, Texas last year. Another illegal killed Officer Nick Erfle in
> Phoenix, Arizona. Two more illegals ran over and nearly killed former
> Colorado University pro-prospect quarterback John Hessler, sending him
> into a wheelchair for life with severe brain damage. Both illegals
> fled back to Mexico.
>
> Last year, in New Jersey, two illegal aliens executed three black
> American college students in the back of their heads as they knelt in
> a vacant alley.
>
> Last month, in San Francisco, Edwin Ramos coldly shot Mr. Tony
> Bologna, 48, and his two sons, Michael, 20, and Mathew 16, while they
> sat in their cars in traffic.
>
> What did all those illegal aliens hold in common? Answer: police
> arrested every single one of them multiple times. Many sported rap
> sheets five pages long with felonies, drunken driving, rapes,
> burglaries, car theft and worse. What else did they hold in common?
> Answer: every single one of them enjoyed exemption from the law. How
> did they accomplish freedom from the law? Answer: every one of them
> lived and worked in a "Sanctuary City" within the United States that
> gave them immunity from arrest and deportation for their status as
> illegal aliens.
>
> In other words, our laws do not pertain to them. They could drive
> drunk, drive without a license, drive without insurance, work without
> papers, not pay taxes and live within the United States totally
> against our laws. As the Southwest Airlines ad says, "You're free to
> move about the country!"
>
> Who stands guilty of all these deaths? For starters, Los Angeles
> Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, San Francisco's Mayor Newsome, Mayor
> Gordon of Phoenix, Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago, Mayor Bloomberg in
> NYC, and my Mayor John Hickenlooper in Denver, Colorado. Every mayor
> of every sanctuary city stands in direct violation of U.S. federal
> laws and in direct violation of their oaths of office. Every one of
> those mayors from the past and into the future stands responsible for
> killing thousands of American citizens.
>
> But last week, the most horrendous of "Sanctuary City" killing crimes
> occurred in Denver, Colorado. See story in the Denver Post: "ICE holds
> crash driver"http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_10401431
>
> An illegal alien from Mexico, with 16 prior arrests, 11 aliases--
> Francis Hernandez, 23, drunker than a skunk on a Saturday night, drove
> his vehicle into a Baskin-Robbins ice cream parlor—killing Patricia
> Guntharp, 49, and Debra Serecky, 51. But more than the two adults who
> lived two-thirds of their lives, Hernandez killed a little boy, Marten
> Kudlis, three years of age, as he sat on a stool happily licking his
> ice cream cone.
>
> This story turns your stomach. It sickens your heart. It leaves a
> sour taste in your mouth. It grinds at your senses. It bedevils your
> sense of right and wrong.
>
> Why do you obey our laws, but our own elected officials refuse their
> obligations to serve and enforce our statues? Even Colorado Governor
> Ritter gave hundreds of known drug dealers 'agricultural trespass'
> that allowed them back onto the streets during his tenure as Denver's
> district attorney.
>
> That three year old child Marten never stood a chance against a career
> criminal because Mayor John Hickenlooper offers 'sanctuary' for
> illegal aliens in Denver. In fact, even more horrific, Hickenlooper
> owned the "Cherry Cricket Restaurant" where the killer Gomez-Garcia
> worked when he shot Denver Officer Don Young. But it doesn't end
> there--Hickenlooper stood by as another young man, husband and father,
> Justin Goodman died at the hands of another illegal alien three years
> ago—by a hit and run illegal with a five page rap sheet but no
> deportation. Added to that, Denver suffers 12,000 gang members,
> mostly illegal aliens—that Hickenlooper allows immunity from
> prosecution via his "Sanctuary Policy".
> According to Joseph Farrah, World Net Daily, September 5, 2008,
> "Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes
> committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced
> estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and
> independent research.
> "Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according
> to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers
> are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by
> illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
> "The carnage wrought by illegal alien murderers represents only a
> fraction of the pool of blood spilled by American citizens as a result
> of an open border and un-enforced immigration laws.
>
> "While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens,
> he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers – for another
> annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.
>
> "While no one – in or out of government – tracks all U.S. accidents
> caused by illegal aliens, the statistical and anecdotal evidence
> suggests many of last year's 42,636 road deaths involved illegal
> aliens.
>
> "A report by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Study found 20 percent of
> fatal accidents involve at least one driver who lacks a valid
> license.
> "King also reports eight American children are victims of sexual abuse
> by illegal aliens every day – a total of 2,920 annually.
> "Based on a one-year in-depth study, Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the
> Violent Crimes Institute of Atlanta estimates there are about 240,000
> illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an
> average of four victims each. She analyzed 1,500 cases from January
> 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders,
> sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal
> immigrants."
> All of those illegal alien criminals enjoy "Sanctuary City" protection
> from nearly 30 major cities in the United States—all in violation of
> the U.S. Constitution. (USC 8, 1374, 274, 275, 276)
>
> What if Mayor Hickenlooper's family members suffered death, rape or
> molestation by an illegal? Would he rescind his "Sanctuary Policy" in
> Denver? Would Bloomberg in New York City? Would Mayor Gordon in
> Phoenix?
> A profound depression hovers over me as I write this column. What if
> Marten Kudlis had been my son, my only son, as he was the Kudlis' only
> child? I find my sense of reason, logic and rational action defeated
> by these men in office, not only as mayors of cities, but all the way
> to the U.S. House, Senate and President Bush himself. As we suffer
> invasion by upwards of 20 million illegal aliens overrunning our
> communities, those men in high office do nothing to stop it.
> They not only refuse to uphold their oaths of office, they, instead--
> aid, abet and assist illegal aliens to kill American citizens and
> wreak havoc on our communities and lives. It's beyond comprehension
> and it's beyond sickening. Both presidential candidates failed to
> breathe a word about it in the RNC and DNC.
> We can only wonder if the next victim of an illegal alien kills a
> daughter or son of a governor, mayor, senator, House rep or one of
> President Bush's family—would they take action for the rest of us who
> suffer losses daily?
> Ask John Hickenlooper why he continues sanctuary city policy after all
> those deaths on his hands?
>
> Mayor John Hickenlooper, Denver, CO: Call him: 720-913-1311 or email
> MileHighMa...@ci.denver.co.usThis e-mail address is being protected
> from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
> Colorado Governor Ritter: Call him: Ph. 303 866 2471
> Why won't he enforce our immigration laws?
>
> Bob Woodruff of ABC asked input from all citizens concerning the
> future of our planet. Go towww.earth2100.tvfor a sobering reality
> check as to what we face and to what I have been writing about for the
> past 20 years. Our 'window' to change to a balanced population and
> non-polluting energy diminishes every day we listen to irresponsible
> media and thus ignore the blatant symptoms manifesting all over
> America and the planet.
>
> To take action:www.numbersusa.com www.thesocialcontract.com www.fairus.orgwww.proenglish.org www.capsweb.org
> www.vdare.com www.firecoalition.com
>
> Become a member of "Frosty's Press Agent Corps" whereby you volunteer
> a few hours to send out emails to top TV and radio hosts to offer top
> speakers on America's overpopulation crisis driven by unending
> immigration. Email fros...@juno.comThis e-mail address is being
> protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and
> receive two informational letters showing you exactly what to do.
>
> Frosty Wooldridge has bicycled across six continents – from the Arctic
> to the South Pole – as well as six times across the USA, coast to
> coast and border to border. In 2005, he bicycled from the Arctic
> Circle, Norway to Athens, Greece. He presents "The Coming Population
> Crisis in America: and what you can do about it" to civic clubs,
> church groups, high schools and colleges. He works to bring about
> sensible world population balance atwww.frostywooldridge.com
>
> From: Frosty Wooldridge
>
> This three minute interview with Adam Schrager on "Your Show" May 4,
> 2008, NBC Channel 9 News, addresses the ramifications of adding 120
> million people to USA in 35 years and six million people to Colorado
> as to water shortages, air pollution, loss of farmland, energy costs
> and degradation of quality of life. In the interview, Frosty
> Wooldridge explains the ramifications of adding 120 million people to
> the USA in 35 years. He advances new concepts such as a "Colorado
> Carrying Capacity Policy"; "Colorado Environmental Impact Policy";
> "Colorado Water Usage Policy"; "Colorado Sustainable Population
> Policy". Nationally, the USA needs a "National Sustainable Population
> Policy" to determine the carrying capacity of this nation for the
> short and long term. Wooldridge is available for interviews on radio
> and TV having interviewed on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and FOX.
>
> Click the link to view the 3 minute interview with NBC's Adam
> Schrager:http://www.9news.com/video/player.aspx?aid=52364
>
> Frosty Wooldridgewww.frostywooldridge.com
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What Would the U.S.A.'s Founding Fathers Do?
>
> If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
> there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
> original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
> forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
> arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
> except in their courage and despair ...
>
> The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
> proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
> than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
> to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> We in America do not have government by the majority.
> We have government by the majority who participate.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
> conscience to remain silent.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
> the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
> depositories.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
> keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
> against tyranny in government.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
> let us show them we can fight like men also.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going
> to do.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
> Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
> delineate and define you.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
> does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
> they draw their gains.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
> corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
> a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
> those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
> perverted it into tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson

Fine article, circulate.

Walter

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:02 am
From: "free.tuneup@gmail.com"

whudson1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 15, 7:10�pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"
> <guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> > � *WHOEVER* wins the election, friends, things are going to get worse.
> > FAR, FAR worse.
> >
> > � With a new economic depression looming �-- one said by numerous
> > economic forecasters that will be *much* worse than the Great
> > Depression, in fact -- murderous attacks by illegal aliens against
> > U.S. citizens WILL increase dramatically from their already record-
> > setting levels. Since 2001 4 times as many Americans have been killed
> > stateside in their own country by illegal aliens than have been killed
> > in the Iraq and Afghan wars combined.
> >
> > � Do NOT be surprised when armed illegal aliens from profoundly
> > violent cultures cut in front of you on the bread line sometime in the
> > future. I myself grew up in a working class "ethnic" New York City
> > neighborhood during the 1960s but am absolutely *shocked* at the
> > illegal alien violence I read about every day of the week in Southern
> > California where I now live. As Anthony Bologna and his two sons found
> > out several months ago in California (see Frosty Wooldrige's essay
> > below), merely ticking an illegal alien driver off -- and many
> > millions of illegals now drive all over America -- can result in your
> > being murdered in cold blood by a hot-headed "macho" illegal alien
> > from Mexico or some other "Latin" [sic] country, typically by an
> > illegal (as in the Bolognas' case) who already had *many* prior
> > arrests for *serious* crimes (up to and including violent felonies) in
> > the U.S.
> >
> > � Barack Obama -- an *extreme* advocate for granting illegal aliens'
> > most outrageous demands -- is now in the lead to become the next U.S.
> > president. After you read the following frightful essay by retired
> > teacher Frosty Wooldrige do yourself a favor and view the film (made
> > by a Hillary Clinton Democrat) �"We Will Not Be Silenced" athttp://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/video/index.htmto learn about
> > the actual Maoist tactics Obama's supporters employed to defeat
> > Hillary in the primaries. They are right out of the Cultural
> > Revolution, complete with actual attacks and bullying of the elderly,
> > just as was done in China's Cultural Revolution during the 1960s in
> > which many millions were killed (Obama's unrepentant Communist friend
> > William Ayers was bombing U.S. Government buildings and firebombing
> > the home of a family with small children in New York City during the
> > same period.)
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > SICKENING DEADLY LEGACY OF SANCTUARY ....
> >
> > by Frosty Wooldridgewww.frostywooldridge.com
> >
> > ....SHIELDING ILLEGAL ALIENS FROM DEPORTATION - In the �War on
> > Terror�, four times more Americans died at the hands of illegal
> > aliens ....
> >
> > �.... within the United States than U.S. soldiers in Iraq and
> > Afghanistan--for the past seven years. �Illegal aliens continue their
> > own �killing zone� against Americans in every corner of American
> > society.
> >
> > Three years ago, an illegal alien, after being stopped by police and
> > released three times, Gomez-Garcia, executed Denver Officer Don Young
> > in Denver, Colorado. �Another illegal alien, Francisco Montero, with
> > 11 prior stops for drunk driving, killed Dale Englerth in Boulder,
> > Colorado. �Yet another illegal alien killed Officer Brian Jackson in
> > Dallas, Texas last year. Another illegal killed Officer Nick Erfle in
> > Phoenix, Arizona. �Two more illegals ran over and nearly killed former
> > Colorado University pro-prospect quarterback John Hessler, sending him
> > into a wheelchair for life with severe brain damage. Both illegals
> > fled back to Mexico.
> >
> > Last year, in New Jersey, two illegal aliens executed three black
> > American college students in the back of their heads as they knelt in
> > a vacant alley.
> >
> > Last month, in San Francisco, Edwin Ramos coldly shot Mr. Tony
> > Bologna, 48, and his two sons, Michael, 20, and Mathew 16, while they
> > sat in their cars in traffic.
> >
> > What did all those illegal aliens hold in common? �Answer: police
> > arrested every single one of them multiple times. Many sported rap
> > sheets five pages long with felonies, drunken driving, rapes,
> > burglaries, car theft and worse. �What else did they hold in common?
> > Answer: every single one of them enjoyed exemption from the law. �How
> > did they accomplish freedom from the law? �Answer: every one of them
> > lived and worked in a �Sanctuary City� within the United States that
> > gave them immunity from arrest and deportation for their status as
> > illegal aliens.
> >
> > In other words, our laws do not pertain to them. �They could drive
> > drunk, drive without a license, drive without insurance, work without
> > papers, not pay taxes and live within the United States totally
> > against our laws. �As the Southwest Airlines ad says, �You�re free to
> > move about the country!�
> >
> > Who stands guilty of all these deaths? �For starters, Los Angeles
> > Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, San Francisco�s Mayor Newsome, Mayor
> > Gordon of Phoenix, Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago, Mayor Bloomberg in
> > NYC, and my Mayor John Hickenlooper in Denver, Colorado. �Every mayor
> > of every sanctuary city stands in direct violation of U.S. federal
> > laws and in direct violation of their oaths of office. �Every one of
> > those mayors from the past and into the future stands responsible for
> > killing thousands of American citizens.
> >
> > But last week, the most horrendous of �Sanctuary City� killing crimes
> > occurred in Denver, Colorado. See story in the Denver Post: �ICE holds
> > crash driver�http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_10401431
> >
> > An illegal alien from Mexico, with 16 prior arrests, 11 aliases--
> > Francis Hernandez, 23, drunker than a skunk on a Saturday night, drove
> > his vehicle into a Baskin-Robbins ice cream parlor�killing Patricia
> > Guntharp, 49, and Debra Serecky, 51. �But more than the two adults who
> > lived two-thirds of their lives, Hernandez killed a little boy, Marten
> > Kudlis, three years of age, as he sat on a stool happily licking his
> > ice cream cone.
> >
> > This story turns your stomach. �It sickens your heart. �It leaves a
> > sour taste in your mouth. �It grinds at your senses. �It bedevils your
> > sense of right and wrong.
> >
> > Why do you obey our laws, but our own elected officials refuse their
> > obligations to serve and enforce our statues? �Even Colorado Governor
> > Ritter gave hundreds of known drug dealers �agricultural trespass�
> > that allowed them back onto the streets during his tenure as Denver�s
> > district attorney.
> >
> > That three year old child Marten never stood a chance against a career
> > criminal because Mayor John Hickenlooper offers �sanctuary� for
> > illegal aliens in Denver. �In fact, even more horrific, Hickenlooper
> > owned the �Cherry Cricket Restaurant� where the killer Gomez-Garcia
> > worked when he shot Denver Officer Don Young. � But it doesn�t end
> > there--Hickenlooper stood by as another young man, husband and father,
> > Justin Goodman died at the hands of another illegal alien three years
> > ago�by a hit and run illegal with a five page rap sheet but no
> > deportation. �Added to that, Denver suffers 12,000 gang members,
> > mostly illegal aliens�that Hickenlooper allows immunity from
> > prosecution via his �Sanctuary Policy�.
> > According to Joseph Farrah, World Net Daily, September 5, 2008,
> > �Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes
> > committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced
> > estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and
> > independent research.
> > �Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according
> > to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. �If those numbers
> > are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by
> > illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
> > �The carnage wrought by illegal alien murderers represents only a
> > fraction of the pool of blood spilled by American citizens as a result
> > of an open border and un-enforced immigration laws.
> >
> > �While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens,
> > he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers � for another
> > annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.
> >
> > �While no one � in or out of government � tracks all U.S. accidents
> > caused by illegal aliens, the statistical and anecdotal evidence
> > suggests many of last year's 42,636 road deaths involved illegal
> > aliens.
> >
> > �A report by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Study found 20 percent of
> > fatal accidents involve at least one driver who lacks a valid
> > license.
> > �King also reports eight American children are victims of sexual abuse
> > by illegal aliens every day � a total of 2,920 annually.
> > �Based on a one-year in-depth study, Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the
> > Violent Crimes Institute of Atlanta estimates there are about 240,000
> > illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an
> > average of four victims each. She analyzed 1,500 cases from January
> > 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders,
> > sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal
> > immigrants.�
> > All of those illegal alien criminals enjoy �Sanctuary City� protection
> > from nearly 30 major cities in the United States�all in violation of
> > the U.S. Constitution. (USC 8, 1374, 274, 275, 276)
> >
> > What if Mayor Hickenlooper�s family members suffered death, rape or
> > molestation by an illegal? �Would he rescind his �Sanctuary Policy� in
> > Denver? �Would Bloomberg in New York City? �Would Mayor Gordon in
> > Phoenix?
> > A profound depression hovers over me as I write this column. �What if
> > Marten Kudlis had been my son, my only son, as he was the Kudlis� only
> > child? �I find my sense of reason, logic and rational action defeated
> > by these men in office, not only as mayors of cities, but all the way
> > to the U.S. House, Senate and President Bush himself. � As we suffer
> > invasion by upwards of 20 million illegal aliens overrunning our
> > communities, those men in high office do nothing to stop it.
> > They not only refuse to uphold their oaths of office, they, instead--
> > aid, abet and assist illegal aliens to kill American citizens and
> > wreak havoc on our communities and lives. � It�s beyond comprehension
> > and it�s beyond sickening. �Both presidential candidates failed to
> > breathe a word about it in the RNC and DNC.
> > We can only wonder if the next victim of an illegal alien kills a
> > daughter or son of a governor, mayor, senator, House rep or one of
> > President Bush�s family�would they take action for the rest of us who
> > suffer losses daily?
> > Ask John Hickenlooper why he continues sanctuary city policy after all
> > those deaths on his hands?
> >
> > Mayor John Hickenlooper, Denver, CO: Call him: �720-913-1311 or email
> > MileHighMa...@ci.denver.co.usThis e-mail address is being protected
> > from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
> > Colorado Governor Ritter: Call him: �Ph. 303 866 2471
> > Why won�t he enforce our immigration laws?
> >
> > Bob Woodruff of ABC asked input from all citizens concerning the
> > future of our planet. �Go towww.earth2100.tvfor a sobering reality
> > check as to what we face and to what I have been writing about for the
> > past 20 years. �Our �window� to change to a balanced population and
> > non-polluting energy diminishes every day we listen to irresponsible
> > media and thus ignore the blatant symptoms manifesting all over
> > America and the planet.
> >
> > To take action:www.numbersusa.com�www.thesocialcontract.com�www.fairus.orgwww.proenglish.org�www.capsweb.org
> > � � � � � � � � � � � � � �www.vdare.com�www.firecoalition.com
> >
> > Become a member of �Frosty�s Press Agent Corps� whereby you volunteer
> > a few hours to send out emails to top TV and radio hosts to offer top
> > speakers on America�s overpopulation crisis driven by unending
> > immigration. �Email fros...@juno.comThis e-mail address is being
> > protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and
> > receive two informational letters showing you exactly what to do.
> >
> > Frosty Wooldridge has bicycled across six continents � from the Arctic
> > to the South Pole � as well as six times across the USA, coast to
> > coast and border to border. �In 2005, he bicycled from the Arctic
> > Circle, Norway to Athens, Greece. �He presents �The Coming Population
> > Crisis in America: and what you can do about it� to civic clubs,
> > church groups, high schools and colleges. �He works to bring about
> > sensible world population balance atwww.frostywooldridge.com
> >
> > From: Frosty Wooldridge
> >
> > This three minute interview with Adam Schrager on �Your Show� May 4,
> > 2008, NBC Channel 9 News, addresses the ramifications of adding 120
> > million people to USA in 35 years and six million people to Colorado
> > as to water shortages, air pollution, loss of farmland, energy costs
> > and degradation of quality of life. �In the interview, Frosty
> > Wooldridge explains the ramifications of adding 120 million people to
> > the USA in 35 years. He advances new concepts such as a �Colorado
> > Carrying Capacity Policy�; �Colorado Environmental Impact Policy�;
> > �Colorado Water Usage Policy�; �Colorado Sustainable Population
> > Policy�. �Nationally, the USA needs a "National Sustainable Population
> > Policy" to determine the carrying capacity of this nation for the
> > short and long term. �Wooldridge is available for interviews on radio
> > and TV having interviewed on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and FOX.
> >
> > Click the link to view the 3 minute interview with NBC's Adam
> > Schrager:http://www.9news.com/video/player.aspx?aid=52364
> >
> > Frosty Wooldridgewww.frostywooldridge.com
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > � � �What Would the U.S.A.'s Founding Fathers Do?
> >
> > � If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
> > there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
> > original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
> > forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
> > arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
> > except in their courage and despair ...
> >
> > � The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
> > proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
> > than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
> > to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> > � -- Alexander Hamilton
> >
> > � We in America do not have government by the majority.
> > We have government by the majority who participate.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
> > conscience to remain silent.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
> > the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
> > depositories.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
> > keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
> > against tyranny in government.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
> > let us show them we can fight like men also.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going
> > to do.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
> > Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
> > delineate and define you.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
> > does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
> > they draw their gains.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > �I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
> > corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
> > a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > liberties than standing armies.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > � Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
> > those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
> > perverted it into tyranny.
> > � -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Fine article, circulate.
>
> Walter

Fair is fair...what goes around...we are over in Iraq as "illegal
aliens" invading their country and have murdered close to one million
innocent people, 'cause we can", so who are the barbarians? Pay back
is a bitch huh?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Secrets To Great Country Home Decorating
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/649f090bf498d9ee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:44 am
From: "yssdvtwkxeel@yahoo.com"

Country home decorating is a very popular design choice. It is a style
that conveys welcome and warmth. It also adds a touch of whimsy and
thoughts of simpler times. These things help create a relaxing
environment for family and friends to enjoy.
One of the first places that people use country home decorating is the
kitchen. Kitchens are the hub of a home and should be warm and
inviting. Some popular kitchen country home decorating themes are
roosters, chickens, cows, and apples. These items usually have an
antiqued finish on them to enhance the country theme. Some frilly
gingham curtains will add just the right country touch to your
kitchen.
Wreaths are appropriate in country home decorating in all seasons. You
can get them to match any color scheme and reflect any theme. Not all
wreaths are pine based. Some are simply branches woven together. You
can make one yourself using craft supplies. There are many online
sites and books that will give you step by step instructions on making
wreaths. Wreaths are pretty on doors to welcome people to your home.
They can also be hung as decorations inside on walls or interior
doors....

More About Home Decorating : http://groups.google.com/group/decoratvup

==============================================================================
TOPIC: McCain's bad temper
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5978b700a07ad85f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:54 am
From: Neil Jones

ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF1g

It really does not matter who wins the elections because the winner is
inheriting a "Inner City" economy. That's a lot of work.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hussein Obama's First 10 Executive Orders
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eef1f93b8617a8e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 5:32 am
From: George

TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past months
> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
> control.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
a few years to get us to where we are.

If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first in
line at the polls.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 5:51 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

In <Ru6dnw2d1nhkqwrvnz2dnuvz_hudnz2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
at 08:32 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:

>TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past months
>> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
>> control.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
>sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
>a few years to get us to where we are.

Wrong goober. This is a crisis that comes from right wing thinking and
control.

Stop lying about it and accept that fact that the right wing uncontrolled
free-market thinking has destroyed the right wing.

...And its a good think for the world.

>If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first in
>line at the polls.

There is the next best choice. He's named Obama. You are against that.
Thus, proving you are another right wing driveling nut.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:24 am
From: jdoe

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:09:15 -0400, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>George Grapman wrote:
>> Why do Americans keep going to Canada and Mexico for their
>> prescriptions? Do you have a cite showing large number of Canadians
>> come here for health care?
>
>I can't say there were "large" numbers, but over the last 18 years, our
>open-heart surgery practice has seen quite a few Canadians who were
>either turned down for surgery or put on a very long waiting list. They
>were expected to put up with painful angina daily and an extremely
>limiting lifestyle. Our orthopedic practice also had many Canadians who
>were waiting for hip or knee procedures.
>
>Marsha/Ohio

long waits in canuckistan is part of the socialized medical plan, it
called rationing care, and stories like you've related are not
uncommon. canucks who have the means to pay for their care come to the
US to avoid the all too common wait lists for procedures that are
rationed in canuckistan

__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:30 am
From: George

TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
> In <Ru6dnw2d1nhkqwrvnz2dnuvz_hudnz2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
> at 08:32 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:
>
>
>
>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past months
>>> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
>>> control.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
>> sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
>> a few years to get us to where we are.
>
> Wrong goober. This is a crisis that comes from right wing thinking and
> control.

Nice touch, so you definitely confirmed you only drink blue kool-aid and
aren't capable of any critical thinking.

>
> Stop lying about it and accept that fact that the right wing uncontrolled
> free-market thinking has destroyed the right wing.
>
> ...And its a good think for the world.
>
>> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first in
>> line at the polls.
>
>
> There is the next best choice. He's named Obama. You are against that.
> Thus, proving you are another right wing driveling nut.
>
Really? I said that?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:38 am
From: Bert Hyman

sfgeorge@paccbell.net (George Grapman) wrote in
news:jVpJk.3360$x%.168@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

> Why do Americans keep going to Canada and Mexico for their
> prescriptions?

They go to Mexico because they can buy drugs over the counter without
prescriptions. Of course, they often get counterfeits.

They go to Canada because the foolish Canadian tax payers will
subsidize the costs of their drugs.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2008 Bike Houston Moonlight Ramble
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ae424346c37c066c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 5:45 am
From: Dan Birchall

lbutton@wt.net (lbutton@wt.net) wrote:
> The Houston Moonlight Bicycle Ramble is the longest running bicycle
> ride in the Houston.

"the Houston"?

> Your participation in the ride helps promote bicycling in the Houston

Has it occurred to you that the misc.* hierarchy is in no way limited
to the Houston area, and that indeed, other places, some quite far away,
have miscellaneous things too? ;)

--
http://08016.com/ - Burlington City history on the internet, since 1995.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: KFC 9.99 bucket
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5651e6f0a42596cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:23 am
From: curly'q

Lou Decruss wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:43:59 -0500, curly'q <mamay@gug.com> wrote:
>
>> Lou Decruss wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:06:34 -0500, curly'q <mamay@gug.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>> JonL <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote in news:48F56745.9030500@Mayday.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seerialmom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 8:54 pm, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> How much would the raw chicken cost you at regular supermarket
>>>>>>>> prices? At sale prices? Assume you cook regularly and have all the
>>>>>>>> other stuff necessary for fried chicken so their cost is minor.
>>>>>>> I tend to roll my eyes at that commercial. Yes, if you had to buy all
>>>>>>> the ingredients from scratch i.e. bag of flour, spices, baking
>>>>>>> powder, bottle of oil, chicken, cabbage, carrots, potatoes, coleslaw
>>>>>>> dressing (bottled or ingredients) corn cobs, it likely would exceed
>>>>>>> $10. The same is true for most other fast foods. The other part of
>>>>>>> that commercial says you can't do it because you wouldn't know what to
>>>>>>> buy for the 11 secret spices.
>>>> There are some minor hidden costs..........you gotta have one of these
>>>> to duplicate KFC
>>>>
>>>> http://www.kitchensupplydirect.com/559-FKMF.html
>>> I don't know why anyone would want to duplicate KFC but you sure can
>>> make far better chicken with a turkey fryer for under a hundred bucks.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>> I love the stuff myself.....
>
> I'm glad for you. I really mean that with no sarcasm.

You know, it's what you grow up with. I call it the 'Mom's Meatloaf
Syndrome' I've tasted friends mom's specialties and some of them were
pretty bad. All the while the family members around the table thought
they had died and went to heaven.

>
>> IMO, 'broasted' chicken is the ultimate
>> preparation method for breaded chicken pieces in the 'southern fried' style.
>
> Broasting has only been around since the early 50's and has nothing to
> do with southern fried chicken. Allegedly KFC started pressure
> cooking around 1940. Southern fried chicken is something dating back
> to slavery days and was something almost exclusively prepared by black
> women. They had no fancy equipment. The effect of chicken and the
> pride of making it on the black culture still exists. If you walk
> into a black church lady function and tell them you think KFC has a
> good product you'll get laughed at or beat up. You can read more
> about the history in a book called "building houses out of chicken
> legs."

I did say southern fried 'style'

IMHO, pressure fried chicken is a step above pan fried or deep fried....
church ladies notwithstanding . The technique uses less oil, makes for a
crisp, moister product and cooks significantly quicker.

I'm a big fan of pressure cookers in general. From a frugal standpoint,
it's one of the most efficient and economical way to prepare foods
especially marginal cuts of meat, beans, and the difficult to prepare
brown rice. And it's fast.

OBTW...I was joking about the 10k pressure cooker

Len

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:40 am
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:23:07 -0500, curly'q <mamay@gug.com> wrote:

>
>You know, it's what you grow up with. I call it the 'Mom's Meatloaf
>Syndrome' I've tasted friends mom's specialties and some of them were
>pretty bad. All the while the family members around the table thought
>they had died and went to heaven.
>
Never really thought about that. I'll keep it in mind when I get
starry-eyed about my wife's cooking.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal air fares still exist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/baf1b52a87b7d766?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:26 am
From: jdoe

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:16:32 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 13, 11:18 pm, George Grapman <sfgeor...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> I wanted to head east for Thanksgiving but the fares were all in
>> the %800 to 1,000 range. Kept playing around with the sites and found
>> that travelocity had a fare for $450 ($20 more than if I chose to return
>> on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving rather than on Monday.
>> Non-stop both ways,aisle seats and the red eye going east which is
>> always my preference.
>
>I guess so. I just checked Orbitz and found a United flight from
>Chicago-New York for $198 round trip with one stop, less for being
>over 65. The non-stop price was $256. The dates I selected were
>leaving 11/26 and returning 12/2. Of course, I don't know where you
>are coming from or going to.
>
>Los Angeles to NYC on the same dates was $244.
>(All taxes included.)
>Hope you didn't get hosed.
look harder, united sent me their weekly sale list on tuesday ord/nyc
104 each way non stop
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:28 am
From: jdoe

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:44:19 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 15, 2:24 pm, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>> Al Bundy wrote:
>> > On Oct 13, 11:18 pm, George Grapman <sfgeor...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >> I wanted to head east for Thanksgiving but the fares were all in
>> >> the %800 to 1,000 range. Kept playing around with the sites and found
>> >> that travelocity had a fare for $450 ($20 more than if I chose to return
>> >> on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving rather than on Monday.
>> >> Non-stop both ways,aisle seats and the red eye going east which is
>> >> always my preference.
>>
>> > I guess so. I just checked Orbitz and found a United flight from
>> > Chicago-New York for $198 round trip with one stop, less for being
>> > over 65. The non-stop price was $256. The dates I selected were
>> > leaving 11/26 and returning 12/2. Of course, I don't know where you
>> > are coming from or going to.
>>
>> SF to New York.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Los Angeles to NYC on the same dates was $244.
>> > (All taxes included.)
>> > Hope you didn't get hosed.
>
>Orbitz shows $284 with one stop from SF.
orbitz doesn't always have the lowest fares, I have found dealing
direct with the airline always get the lowest fares, search on
www.kayak.com select a flight and then buy it directly from the
airline
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:32 am
From: George Grapman

jdoe wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:16:32 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
> <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 13, 11:18 pm, George Grapman <sfgeor...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> I wanted to head east for Thanksgiving but the fares were all in
>>> the %800 to 1,000 range. Kept playing around with the sites and found
>>> that travelocity had a fare for $450 ($20 more than if I chose to return
>>> on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving rather than on Monday.
>>> Non-stop both ways,aisle seats and the red eye going east which is
>>> always my preference.
>> I guess so. I just checked Orbitz and found a United flight from
>> Chicago-New York for $198 round trip with one stop, less for being
>> over 65. The non-stop price was $256. The dates I selected were
>> leaving 11/26 and returning 12/2. Of course, I don't know where you
>> are coming from or going to.
>>
>> Los Angeles to NYC on the same dates was $244.
>> (All taxes included.)
>> Hope you didn't get hosed.
> look harder, united sent me their weekly sale list on tuesday ord/nyc
> 104 each way non stop
But was it for the period I am traveling,Thanksgiving and from SFO?.
Thanks anyway but the ticket has been purchased.

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