Frugal Living: 26 new messages in 9 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hussein Obama's First 10 Executive Orders
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eef1f93b8617a8e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:19 pm
From: Marsha

Cabot wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
>>I can't say there were "large" numbers, but over the last 18 years, our
>>open-heart surgery practice has seen quite a few Canadians who were
>>either turned down for surgery or put on a very long waiting list. They
>>were expected to put up with painful angina daily and an extremely
>>limiting lifestyle. Our orthopedic practice also had many Canadians who
>>were waiting for hip or knee procedures.
>>
>>Marsha/Ohio
>
> Marsha,
>
> You don't give a hint of where you are, but we have the same waiting game
> in Ohio. For you to imply we don't, is simply false.
>
> Many people come from around the globe, to the Cleveland Clinic. It's not
> because they can get in quick, it's because the CC is one of the top notch
> hospitals in the world. There is a waiting game there, also.
>
> My daughter was recently admitted to a local emergency room. After all said
> and done, it took a wait of 6 weeks, for surgery. I could go on about the
> people I know who had to wait , and I'm sure you know quite a few which
> have to wait for surgery.
>
> People throughout our State of Ohio, have to wait for operations.
>
>

I never said people in Ohio don't have to wait for some surgeries. I'm
speaking only from my experience about open-heart surgery patients. If
a person has debilitating unstable angina, they shouldn't and don't have
to wait for surgery here or anywhere in the US that I'm aware of, even
those who don't have insurance. The people from our area who go to
Cleveland Clinic for OHS are those who are too high risk to be done
here. Cleveland Clinic is world famous for doing OHS on patients who
were turned down elsewhere, because they have the experience of doing
difficult surgery on far more than most other institutions and their
outcomes are excellent. But their resources are limited, so unless
someone's personal physician gives a recommendation that they go to the
top of the list, they will wait, but even then not as long as we've seen
some people waiting in Canada. You didn't say what was your daughter's
problem was, but I'll go out on a limb and bet there was a good reason
for that long of a wait. Personally, I don't want our government
deciding when or whether I get to have a procedure done or not.

Marsha/Ohio

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:23 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:19:04 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Marsha
<mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>Personally, I don't want our government
>deciding when or whether I get to have a procedure done or not.

don't go on medicare then.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 3:28 pm
From: JonL

ChairMan wrote:
> In news:w%NJk.1686$_B6.1249@newsfe12.iad,
> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com>spewed forth:
>> ChairMan wrote:
>>
>>> In news:87qJk.221$KW4.204@newsfe02.iad,
>>> clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com>spewed forth:
>>>
>>>
>>>> ChairMan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In just one year . Remember the election in 2006?
>>>>> Thought you might like to read the following:
>>>>> A little over one year ago:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
>>>>> 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
>>>>> 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Consumer confidence plummet;
>>>>> 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
>>>>> 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
>>>>> 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value
>>>>> evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
>>>>> 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion
>>>>> dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Can you quote one law that was passed since 1 / 2006 that caused
>>>> these problems?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Can you quote one promise that the dems made in 06 that they kept?
>>> It damn sure wasn't bring gas prices down, like they promised
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> First they'll have to reverse all the inept GW decisions.
>
> So in other words, no.
> Do you know any other dances?
> You guys can never admit that they(dems) are just as culpable as the repubs.
> There should be hangings from both parties and you know it.
>
>
Despite warnings from the GAO and a few responsible pols, Clinton
delivered the final blow to the G-S Act.....opening the floodgates, imo.

Bi-Partisan Origins of the Financial Crisis
Shattering the Glass-Steagall Act

By WILLIAM KAUFMAN

If you're looking for a major cause of the current banking meltdown, you
need seek no farther than the 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.

The Glass-Steagall Act, passed in 1933, mandated the separation of
commercial and investment banking in order to protect depositors from
the hazards of risky investment and speculation. It worked fine for
fifty years until the banking industry began lobbying for its repeal
during the 1980s, the go-go years of Reaganesque market fundamentalism,
an outlook embraced wholeheartedly by mainstream Democrats under the
rubric "neoliberalism."

The main cheerleader for the repeal was Phil Gramm, the fulsome
reactionary who, until he recently shoved his foot even farther into his
mouth than usual, was McCain's chief economic advisor.

But wait . . . as usual, the Democrats were eager to pile on to this
reversal of New Deal regulatory progressivism -- fully 38 of 45 Senate
Democrats voted for the repeal (which passed 90-8), including some
famous names commonly associated with "progressive" politics by the
easily gulled: Dodd, Kennedy, Kerry, Reid, and Schumer.
<snipped>

<snipped, no url>
Glass-Steagall adopted five key changes to the Federal Reserve Act:

(1) It created the FDIC to protect bank depositors through insurance,
(2) It restricts investment banking activities to acting only for its
own account,
(3) It prohibits the affiliation of any bank to engage principally in
investment banking activities,
(4) It makes it illegal for any depository institution to engage in
investment banking and receive deposits at the same time, and (5) It
prohibits interlocking directorates and certain other links between
member banks and firms or individuals primarily engaged in investment
banking. In short, it separated the functions of a bank from that of an
investment firm which underwrote stocks and bonds.
------------------------------
-

According to Wikipedia, many economists "have criticized the repeal of
the Glass-Steagall Act as contributing to the 2007 subprime mortgage
financial crisis. The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as
Citigroup, the largest U.S. bank by assets, to underwrite and trade
instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt
obligations and establish so-called structured investment vehicles, or
SIVs, that bought those securities.

----------------------------------

trivia: this repeal was the result of 25 years of lobbying, at a cost of
$300 million in contributions
to our public servants.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 3:36 pm
From: JonL

George wrote:
> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past months
>> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
>> control.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
> sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
> a few years to get us to where we are.
>
> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first in
> line at the polls.

Reminds me of an interview on PBS with Governor Moonbeam, some years
ago. He said, paraphrasing..."we can throw the rascals out, but they'll
just be replaced with New rascals....as long as the system remains in
place."

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:35 pm
From: max

In article <l6jff4d8q2aergo9hng4bqcje9q0n5hovd@4ax.com>,
lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:19:04 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Marsha
> <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>
> >Personally, I don't want our government
> >deciding when or whether I get to have a procedure done or not.
>
> don't go on medicare then.

and don't join the military.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:44 pm
From: Marsha

lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:19:04 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Marsha
> <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Personally, I don't want our government
>>deciding when or whether I get to have a procedure done or not.
>
>
> don't go on medicare then.

Medicare is no different than any other insurance company in the US.
They question things and can be stubborn, but they don't decide when or
if I can have OHS. For that matter, they don't balk at paying for any
other surgeries that are considered necessary either. Doctors just have
to put down the proper diagnosis to get it approved. If I do elect to
have the rare test or procedure Medicare won't pay for, I don't have to
go out of the country, or even my area, to get it done. But let the US
go to a national health care plan and watch things go down hill from
there.

Marsha/Ohio

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 3:47 pm
From: JonL

Rick wrote:
> The left have been pushing loans on poor people who didn't have to put any
> down payments on mortgages starting with Fanny may and Freddy Mac.
> <TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message

Unscrupulous lenders
have been pushing loans on poor people who didn't have to put any
down payments on mortgages starting with Fanny may and Freddy Mac.

Unscrupulous lenders
then bundled,"securitized", and sold the loans to unsuspecting
investors, both here and abroad.

> news:QVHJk.1418$Rx2.412@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>>
>> Listen up right wing asshole; There was no market meltdown until the
>> right thinking of no regulation let greed run it into the ground.
>>
>> Now stop the lying and driveling. Your nonsense is old and boring.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In <8qGdnXrdCP6d32rVnZ2dnUVZ_rPinZ2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
>> at 09:30 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>>> In <Ru6dnw2d1nhkqwrvnz2dnuvz_hudnz2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
>>>> at 08:32 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>>>>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past
>>>>>> months
>>>>>> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
>>>>>> control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
>>>>> sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
>>>>> a few years to get us to where we are.
>>>> Wrong goober. This is a crisis that comes from right wing thinking and
>>>> control.
>>> Nice touch, so you definitely confirmed you only drink blue kool-aid and
>>> aren't capable of any critical thinking.
>>>> Stop lying about it and accept that fact that the right wing
>>>> uncontrolled
>>>> free-market thinking has destroyed the right wing.
>>>>
>>>> ...And its a good think for the world.
>>>>
>>>>> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first
>>>>> in
>>>>> line at the polls.
>>>>
>>>> There is the next best choice. He's named Obama. You are against that.
>>>> Thus, proving you are another right wing driveling nut.
>>>>
>>> Really? I said that?
>
>

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 3:52 pm
From: JonL

ChairMan wrote:
> In news:Ru6dnW2D1NHkqWrVnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@comcast.com,
> George <george@nospam.invalid>spewed forth:
>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past
>>> months to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing
>>> thinking and control.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
>> sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more
>> than a few years to get us to where we are.
>>
>> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first
>> in line at the polls.
>
> I totally agree. Send 'em all home and continue to do so until they
> understand *who* they represent
>
>
Imo, they already know who they represent....Wall Street.
For Main Street there's only the choice between Red flames or Blue
flames....(both guaranteed to burn thine arse)

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:54 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:44:48 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Marsha
<mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:19:04 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Marsha
>> <mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Personally, I don't want our government
>>>deciding when or whether I get to have a procedure done or not.
>>
>>
>> don't go on medicare then.
>
>Medicare is no different than any other insurance company in the US.
>They question things and can be stubborn, but they don't decide when or
>if I can have OHS. For that matter, they don't balk at paying for any
>other surgeries that are considered necessary either. Doctors just have
>to put down the proper diagnosis to get it approved. If I do elect to
>have the rare test or procedure Medicare won't pay for, I don't have to
>go out of the country, or even my area, to get it done. But let the US
>go to a national health care plan and watch things go down hill from
>there.
>
>Marsha/Ohio

uh so you're on medicare but don't want the govenment involved in you health
care

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 5:17 pm
From: Marsha

lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:
>>>On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:19:04 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Marsha
>>><mas@xeb.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Personally, I don't want our government
>>>>deciding when or whether I get to have a procedure done or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>don't go on medicare then.
>>
>>Medicare is no different than any other insurance company in the US.
>>They question things and can be stubborn, but they don't decide when or
>>if I can have OHS. For that matter, they don't balk at paying for any
>>other surgeries that are considered necessary either. Doctors just have
>>to put down the proper diagnosis to get it approved. If I do elect to
>>have the rare test or procedure Medicare won't pay for, I don't have to
>>go out of the country, or even my area, to get it done. But let the US
>>go to a national health care plan and watch things go down hill from
>>there.
>>
>>Marsha/Ohio
>
>
> uh so you're on medicare but don't want the govenment involved in you health
> care

Please sign up for a course on reading and comprehension 101. Where
have I stated that I'm on Medicare? For 17 years, I have worked with
all kinds of insurance in an office that does OHS. As for government
running health care, I was referring to a national health care plan,
which is guaranteed to be botched from the start. There is a huge
difference between Medicare and a national health care system.

Marsha/Ohio

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:41 pm
From: Mark_Reichert@hotmail.com

On Oct 13, 6:15 am, wdst...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
> In article <gctmvm$98...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > It seems as if the idiots are growing exponentially in numbers.
> > Amazing.
>
> There's probably a provable mathematical inverse relationship
> between that and "number of days remaining until the election,
> while $OTHER_CANDIDATE holds a lead in the polls."
>
> (Indeed, I have a truly marvelous proof of this proposition which
> this margin is too narrow to contain.)

Fermat sympathizes.<g>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SmartGuy.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/96761c934fd74112?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:27 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 16, 5:55 pm, "smartguy...@gmail.com" <smartguy...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> My name is Jordan and I am CEO ofwww.blahblah.com. I just wanted to
> introduce myself to you all and ask that you please check it out and
> email me your feedback. (my personal email is Jor...@SmartGuy.com). It
> is a consumer directory, education center, business referral network
> and direct marketing system.
>
> We all know that economy is in quite a bit of trouble. Large
> businesses are reducing advertising, laying off staff, and quickly
> entering mergers, acquisitions and marketing alliances in order to
> survive. But what about the small business? Let's face it; we are
> going to lose at least 30-40% of them nationally if they don't act
> fast!
>
> Smartguy connects up to 1,200 non-competing professionals together
> within each zip code. The moment each professional signs up, their
> information is entered into the online directory and later
> transmitted to all other professionals within their network. This
> allows them to meet each other and develop solid local alliances that
> will yield results for years to come.
>
> You can sign up for the free trial online if you want, but more than
> anything, I really want your feedback.
>
> Thanks in advance,

The Web site is written OK, certainly much better than the Indians and
Chinese the post crap here. At least it loads promptly and the links I
checked worked. The problem is there is no information there. I
checked several big Zip codes around the country and found no records.
The supposed helpful information is just common sense and stuff pasted
from the Internet. Similar referral sites are all over the net, but
they at least have a few professionals to look at.
You are essentially chief cook and bottle washer of your own empty
kitchen.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning on unplugging to save money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df565ab499ce5661?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 4:41 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 16, 10:07 am, SimeonArgus <simeontr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The hot rave today is "unplugging your devices when not in use."
>
> I just wanted to post -- for all of us frugal savers -- a quick word
> of warning. You see, this advice is actually one of the top bits of
> advice I've found. It really does save a ton of money. But be aware
> that this only applies to devices that don't have a physical "kill"
> switch.
>
> For example, my computer can be powered on by touching a small button
> on the front. That button is waiting to send an electrical pulse to
> some internal electro-gizmo to start the boot process. Where do you
> think the small button on the front is getting the electrical pulse?
> Yep.. it trickles small amounts of electricity. Those small amounts
> add up.
>
> Now, take my washing machine, on the other hand. I have to push a knob
> in until I hear a "click". That click is the sound of the connection
> actually being made in the washer to start the process of using
> electricity. While that knob is up, it doesn't trickle electricity, so
> there's no need in unplugging it and plugging it every time I want to
> use it.
>
> Just a thought to ponder.
>
> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/FrugalLivingTips/~6/1"><img
> src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/FrugalLivingTips.1.gif" alt="Jerry's
> Frugal Living Tips" style="border:0"></a>

It depends on the specific device. Even a lowly toasted can have a
live touchpad these days. One hundred "trickles" still ads up to
almost nothing. Again, it depends. The items with wall transformers
always take power. They do add up. By the way, I make short extensions
so those wall transformers can be plugged into strips without blocking
the next outlet. The key is to go around and see what your devices are
doing and act accordingly. Most people don't have the equipment or
inclination, but the resting output can easily be checked. They even
make simple plug-in tools that do all the work and give you a reading.
Others have posted about them here.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:55 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <06c6f224-4aed-4aaa-b4c6-31fa0a7bbb02@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Al
Bundy wrote:

>It depends on the specific device. Even a lowly toasted can have a
>live touchpad these days. One hundred "trickles" still ads up to
>almost nothing. Again, it depends. The items with wall transformers
>always take power. They do add up. By the way, I make short extensions
>so those wall transformers can be plugged into strips without blocking
>the next outlet. The key is to go around and see what your devices are
>doing and act accordingly. Most people don't have the equipment or
>inclination, but the resting output can easily be checked. They even
>make simple plug-in tools that do all the work and give you a reading.
>Others have posted about them here.

I have one of those Kill-A-Watt meters. My TV draws 11-12 watts when
it is off. My computer draws about 4 watts when it is off. My cable box
and my printer each draw about 1 watt when they are off. I forget what my
monitor draws when it is off, and I am using it now.

Modern cellphone chargers appear to me to take less than a watt if
pluggen in unused, maybe more like half a watt, but most other wallwarts
appear to me to comsume about 3/4-2 watts (mostly 1-1.5 watts) if
plugged in and unloaded.

I turn my computer speakers off when I don't need audio - but they draw
apparently a little under 1 watt when they are on but not receiving a
signal.

It appears to me that things like these can add up to a minority of
electrical power consumption that can be significant.

Something else along these lines: Do you have a few or several
incandescent nightlights that could each be consuming 4-7 watts 24/7?
Figure how much you save in 5 years if you replace them with green or blue
LED ones that consume .3-.4 watt apiece. (Many of the white ones probably
fade with halflife around a year or so.)
Although those look dim in daylight, they produce wavelengths that night
vision is very sensitive to. They will probably be usable at night,
though still dimmer than incandescent ones. Heck - the 4-7 watt
incandescent ones often come with shades!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best GPS Units For Less Than $200!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4874b2abe080dcd4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 5:15 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> timeOday wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Al Bundy wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 10, 8:04 am, drishaq <drishaqaz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> There are quite a few excellent GPS units for under $200.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I liked it more when they were $300 and I could say I saved $300
>>>>>> by not buying one. I know they help some people traveling or in
>>>>>> the woods, but I always try to know where I am at.
>>
>> It would be pretty to think so.
>>
>> I worked for Magellan when hand-held units were $2K and the size and
>> weight of white bricks. Those were more trouble to use than they were
>> worth, although boat-people loved them. Technology roolz.
>>
>>>>> If you travel for work, it sure is nice to use a gps when you
>>>>> arrive in an unfamiliar city after dark and need to drive to your
>>>>> hotel.
>>>>
>>>> Or simply to find a business in an unfamiliar area, especially one
>>>> on the typical Main Street with lots of small shops. Around here
>>>> businesses seem to neglect putting numbers on their doors, which is
>>>> absolutely maddening. There are zoning regs/laws, of course, but
>>>> everybody ignores them.
>>>>
>>>> This is especially nasty in local Asian areas :-(
>>>
>>> In spades for yard sales. Leaves everything else for dead for those.
>>>
>>> Havent found one that allows you to enter them all with
>>> their start times and which will do the best routing tho.
>>
>> That's why we have brains :-)
>>
>>> It would also need to distinguish between the ones which have a full
>>> street address which can safely be rocked up at well before the
>>> advertised start time and the ones which just give the street and
>>> where there is more of a problem with it not being possible to work
>>> out which house it is until they put out the balloons/signs etc.
>>
>> They don't do that too often here, although all the how-to articles
>> say to just publicize the block. We usually start out at 6:30 and
>> aim for a concentration of early sales. A typical Saturday's drive
>> is 50 miles.
>
> I dont do as far as that usually, but then I'm in a smaller town than you.
>
>> Making 11x14" copies of the relevant area from the AAA map to mark up and throw away is essential.
>
> Wota dinosaur. The most I ever do is print the google maps page
> for the ones in the new housing subdivisions that arent in the GPS.

Not good enough. The area covered is roughly 10 miles x 5 miles and
google maps don't print worth shit on my system..

> Google maps is one hell of a resource, its even got the individual
> house blocks in small towns like mine on the other side of the
> world, and photos too now, tho I dont bother with the photos.
>
> Havent worked out how to do that in the car for a viable price tho.

Don't they have GPS attachments for laptops for $50US?

--
Cheers,
Bev
===============================================
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast.
The mime next door went nuts!

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:22 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> timeOday wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Al Bundy wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 10, 8:04 am, drishaq <drishaqaz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> There are quite a few excellent GPS units for under $200.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I liked it more when they were $300 and I could say I saved $300
>>>>>>> by not buying one. I know they help some people traveling or in
>>>>>>> the woods, but I always try to know where I am at.
>>>
>>> It would be pretty to think so.
>>>
>>> I worked for Magellan when hand-held units were $2K and the size and
>>> weight of white bricks. Those were more trouble to use than they
>>> were worth, although boat-people loved them. Technology roolz.
>>>
>>>>>> If you travel for work, it sure is nice to use a gps when you
>>>>>> arrive in an unfamiliar city after dark and need to drive to your
>>>>>> hotel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or simply to find a business in an unfamiliar area, especially one
>>>>> on the typical Main Street with lots of small shops. Around here
>>>>> businesses seem to neglect putting numbers on their doors, which
>>>>> is absolutely maddening. There are zoning regs/laws, of course,
>>>>> but everybody ignores them.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is especially nasty in local Asian areas :-(
>>>>
>>>> In spades for yard sales. Leaves everything else for dead for
>>>> those. Havent found one that allows you to enter them all with
>>>> their start times and which will do the best routing tho.
>>>
>>> That's why we have brains :-)
>>>
>>>> It would also need to distinguish between the ones which have a
>>>> full street address which can safely be rocked up at well before
>>>> the advertised start time and the ones which just give the street
>>>> and where there is more of a problem with it not being possible to
>>>> work out which house it is until they put out the balloons/signs
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>> They don't do that too often here, although all the how-to articles
>>> say to just publicize the block. We usually start out at 6:30 and
>>> aim for a concentration of early sales. A typical Saturday's drive
>>> is 50 miles.
>>
>> I dont do as far as that usually, but then I'm in a smaller town
>> than you.
>>> Making 11x14" copies of the relevant area from the AAA map to mark
>>> up and throw away is essential.
>>
>> Wota dinosaur. The most I ever do is print the google maps page
>> for the ones in the new housing subdivisions that arent in the GPS.

> Not good enough. The area covered is roughly 10 miles x 5 miles and google maps don't print worth shit on my system..

Time you tossed that system in the bin.

>> Google maps is one hell of a resource, its even got the individual
>> house blocks in small towns like mine on the other side of the
>> world, and photos too now, tho I dont bother with the photos.

>> Havent worked out how to do that in the car for a viable price tho.

> Don't they have GPS attachments for laptops for $50US?

Cheaper than that actually. That isnt the problem. The problem is the cost of cellphone net access.

Cant be justified for yard sales.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:41 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Making 11x14" copies of the relevant area from the AAA map to
>>>> mark up and throw away is essential.
>>>
>>> Wota dinosaur. The most I ever do is print the google maps page
>>> for the ones in the new housing subdivisions that arent in the
>>> GPS.
>
>> Not good enough. The area covered is roughly 10 miles x 5 miles
>> and google maps don't print worth shit on my system..
>
> Time you tossed that system in the bin.

Ridiculous, it works fine and I have a houseful of stuff to prove it,
including our little $1 Garmin eMap

>>> Google maps is one hell of a resource, its even got the
>>> individual house blocks in small towns like mine on the other
>>> side of the world, and photos too now, tho I dont bother with the
>>> photos.
>
>>> Havent worked out how to do that in the car for a viable price
>>> tho.
>
>> Don't they have GPS attachments for laptops for $50US?
>
> Cheaper than that actually. That isnt the problem. The problem is the
> cost of cellphone net access.
>
> Cant be justified for yard sales.

Clearly not, but why would you need cell access? You get the GPS
coordinates from the unit, which feeds it to the computer, which does
all the heavy lifting.

--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Why put fault tolerance in the OS, when it's already built
into the User?" -- Steve Shaw, regarding Win95

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:51 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Making 11x14" copies of the relevant area from the AAA map to
>>>>> mark up and throw away is essential.
>>>>
>>>> Wota dinosaur. The most I ever do is print the google maps page
>>>> for the ones in the new housing subdivisions that arent in the
>>>> GPS.
>>
>>> Not good enough. The area covered is roughly 10 miles x 5 miles
>>> and google maps don't print worth shit on my system..
>>
>> Time you tossed that system in the bin.
>
> Ridiculous, it works fine and I have a houseful of stuff to prove it,
> including our little $1 Garmin eMap
>
>>>> Google maps is one hell of a resource, its even got the
>>>> individual house blocks in small towns like mine on the other
>>>> side of the world, and photos too now, tho I dont bother with the
>>>> photos.
>>
>>>> Havent worked out how to do that in the car for a viable price
>>>> tho.
>>
>>> Don't they have GPS attachments for laptops for $50US?
>>
>> Cheaper than that actually. That isnt the problem. The problem is the
>> cost of cellphone net access.
>>
>> Cant be justified for yard sales.

> Clearly not, but why would you need cell access?

To use google maps in the car, stupid.

> You get the GPS coordinates from the unit, which feeds it to the computer, which does all the heavy lifting.

Doesnt access google maps tho, stupid.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:27 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Making 11x14" copies of the relevant area from the AAA map
>>>>>> to mark up and throw away is essential.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wota dinosaur. The most I ever do is print the google maps
>>>>> page for the ones in the new housing subdivisions that arent
>>>>> in the GPS.
>>>
>>>> Not good enough. The area covered is roughly 10 miles x 5
>>>> miles and google maps don't print worth shit on my system..
>>>
>>> Time you tossed that system in the bin.
>>
>> Ridiculous, it works fine and I have a houseful of stuff to prove
>> it, including our little $1 Garmin eMap
>>
>>>>> Google maps is one hell of a resource, its even got the
>>>>> individual house blocks in small towns like mine on the other
>>>>> side of the world, and photos too now, tho I dont bother
>>>>> with the photos.
>>>
>>>>> Havent worked out how to do that in the car for a viable
>>>>> price tho.
>>>
>>>> Don't they have GPS attachments for laptops for $50US?
>>>
>>> Cheaper than that actually. That isnt the problem. The problem is
>>> the cost of cellphone net access.
>>>
>>> Cant be justified for yard sales.
>
>> Clearly not, but why would you need cell access?
>
> To use google maps in the car, stupid.
>
>> You get the GPS coordinates from the unit, which feeds it to the
>> computer, which does all the heavy lifting.
>
> Doesnt access google maps tho, stupid.

Why would you need google maps? What's wrong with the mapping software
that comes with GPS units which is updated more or less annually?
Nobody has anything like that available for use on a computer?

--
Cheers, Bev
====================================================================
"We thought about one of those discount store caskets, but, frankly,
we were worried about the quality." -- mortuary commercial

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Making 11x14" copies of the relevant area from the AAA map
>>>>>>> to mark up and throw away is essential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wota dinosaur. The most I ever do is print the google maps
>>>>>> page for the ones in the new housing subdivisions that arent
>>>>>> in the GPS.
>>>>
>>>>> Not good enough. The area covered is roughly 10 miles x 5
>>>>> miles and google maps don't print worth shit on my system..
>>>>
>>>> Time you tossed that system in the bin.
>>>
>>> Ridiculous, it works fine and I have a houseful of stuff to prove
>>> it, including our little $1 Garmin eMap
>>>
>>>>>> Google maps is one hell of a resource, its even got the
>>>>>> individual house blocks in small towns like mine on the other
>>>>>> side of the world, and photos too now, tho I dont bother
>>>>>> with the photos.
>>>>
>>>>>> Havent worked out how to do that in the car for a viable
>>>>>> price tho.
>>>>
>>>>> Don't they have GPS attachments for laptops for $50US?
>>>>
>>>> Cheaper than that actually. That isnt the problem. The problem is
>>>> the cost of cellphone net access.
>>>>
>>>> Cant be justified for yard sales.
>>
>>> Clearly not, but why would you need cell access?
>>
>> To use google maps in the car, stupid.
>>
>>> You get the GPS coordinates from the unit, which feeds it to the
>>> computer, which does all the heavy lifting.
>>
>> Doesnt access google maps tho, stupid.
>
> Why would you need google maps?

Like I said, its always more up to date than the maps
in the GPS, particularly with new housing subdivisions.

> What's wrong with the mapping software that comes with GPS units which is updated more or less annually?

Annually is nothing like as good as google maps.

> Nobody has anything like that available for use on a computer?

No point in having that on a computer when you have a GPS with it on instead.

And yes, you can have it on the laptop if you're that stupid.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal air fares still exist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/baf1b52a87b7d766?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 5:18 pm
From: The Real Bev

George Grapman wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> jdoe wrote:
>>
>>> orbitz doesn't always have the lowest fares, I have found dealing
>>> direct with the airline always get the lowest fares, search on
>>> www.kayak.com select a flight and then buy it directly from the
>>> airline
>>
>> Ditto. I've used Orbitz twice, but Kayak is better and gets my vote
>> next time. Curiously enough, now Delta has the best prices for
>> Ontario-RDU; 6 months ago it was Continental. Maybe I can get a flight
>> via SLC, which I would really like to do during the day.
>
> Earlier this year I found a fare on Jet Blue from SF to NY on a
> travel site. I was ready to take it but they would not give me a seat
> selection . Since I always want an aisle seat unless I have no choice I
> went to the Jet Blue site and got the same two non-stops for $20 less
> and aisle seats.

Feh. I want window seats. I want to look and take pictures and NEXT
time I'll take the little hand-held Garmin eMap GPS unit ($1 at a yard
sale) and record waypoints so I can figure out what that cool thing in
the picture is.

--
Cheers,
Bev
===============================================
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast.
The mime next door went nuts!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:20 pm
From: George Grapman

The Real Bev wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>> jdoe wrote:
>>>
>>>> orbitz doesn't always have the lowest fares, I have found dealing
>>>> direct with the airline always get the lowest fares, search on
>>>> www.kayak.com select a flight and then buy it directly from the
>>>> airline
>>>
>>> Ditto. I've used Orbitz twice, but Kayak is better and gets my vote
>>> next time. Curiously enough, now Delta has the best prices for
>>> Ontario-RDU; 6 months ago it was Continental. Maybe I can get a
>>> flight via SLC, which I would really like to do during the day.
>>
>> Earlier this year I found a fare on Jet Blue from SF to NY on a
>> travel site. I was ready to take it but they would not give me a seat
>> selection . Since I always want an aisle seat unless I have no choice
>> I went to the Jet Blue site and got the same two non-stops for $20
>> less and aisle seats.
>
> Feh. I want window seats. I want to look and take pictures and NEXT
> time I'll take the little hand-held Garmin eMap GPS unit ($1 at a yard
> sale) and record waypoints so I can figure out what that cool thing in
> the picture is.

T To each their own.On a red eye there is nothing to see. I prefer to
sleep,have a little more leg room and stretch out in the aisle without
waking/walking over people.

I always try to get the next to last row. Most people want to be
closer to the front so they can run off and wait for their bags. This
gives me a better chance for at least the middle seat to be empty and
maybe all three. Also, the last row is sometimes the seat of last resort
as it does not recline so if it is empty I grab it as soon as the seat
belt sign goes off.

As far as frugal goes I bring my own food,better and cheaper than
airline food (If they even have a meal) and I eat what I want when I want.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home treatments: Dark circles under eyes, dark spots, pimples, scars
and blemishes on face
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b3bd0a46240c275a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:02 pm
From: Arumugham

Slice cucumber. Chill the slices. Wash your face. Close your eyes.
Place the chilled cucumber slices over and around eyes. Relax for a
few minutes. Gently rub the slices on dark circles and dark spots.
Wash your face again.

You can also apply cucumber juice or potato juice on the dark circles
or dark spots on face with the help of cotton for about 20 minutes.

http://severaltips.blogspot.com/2008/10/dark-circles-under-eyes-dark-spots.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Panic of 1873
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ec9c901c9a083d9d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:40 pm
From: Mark_Reichert@hotmail.com

There are people who were penny pinching children in the 30's who'll
tell their grandparents said the previous Great Depression after the
Panic of 1873 was worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873

Like today, it was caused by people pretending absurd real estate
prices were real and that arcane financial instruments were safe.

It was also pre-regulation of almost anything, where the little guy
was just cattle and nobody gave damn how many people died.

Still, we could pull out of this if only the majority of people would
pull their heads out of their asses and stop believing that their
beliefs trump objective reality.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: You can easily earn huge money online by selling e-book
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/922f9260c58eff40?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:43 pm
From: madhurimaniknepal

You can easily earn huge money online by selling e-book
If you have good knowledge on any one topic then you can easily earn a
handsome money by selling it online. E-book is designed in special
format
and its .exe is created. After that your e-book will come in single
.exe format. Now your e-book is ready to earn money online. Simply
upload it and start selling online. The best point is that you
get lot of interested persons from whole world who will purchase
your book.
http://www.make-extra-money-online.edu.tc

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Greatest potential for voting fraud from ACORN or Republican Party?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c9b22a89ca19e27d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:32 pm
From: "david7gable@aol.com"

The following is replete with numerous references.

We're hearing a lot about the trumped-up charges against ACORN these
days—but very little about the massive voter suppression campaign
being orchestrated by the Republicans. The GOP is trying to purge
thousands of Democratic voters off the rolls in states like Ohio,
Florida, and Colorado.
[SEE "States' Actions to Block Voters Appear Illegal," New York Times,
October 8, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/3ojvj5 ]

John McCain and Sarah Palin are falsely accusing a community
organizing group—ACORN—of voting fraud to distract the media from
their own party's wrongdoing.
[SEE "ACORN defends efforts amid voter-fraud allegations," Associated
Press, October 14, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/4nddjd ]

Worst of all: It's working. The truth is, McCain is vilifying ACORN
to justify voter suppression—making it harder for Obama supporters to
vote.

The GOP's voter suppression campaign could steal this election. For
over twenty-five years, Republicans have promoted the myth of voting
fraud to argue for restrictive voting laws—but Bush's own Justice
Department found virtually no organized voting fraud.
[SEE "In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud," New York
Times, April 12, 2007, http://tinyurl.com/34qcmw]
[SEE ALSO "The Truth About Fraud," Brennan Center for Justice,
http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/ ]

Now McCain is attacking ACORN in order to justify a frenzy of lawsuits
making it harder for Obama supporters to vote.

Here's what he's not telling you:

THE ONLY FRAUD COMMITTED WAS AGAINST ACORN ITSELF. ACORN hired 13,000
workers to register a remarkable 1.3 million new voters. And a few of
them turned in registration forms with inaccurate and even made-up
names to get credit for work they didn't do. ACORN fired them and
turned them over to the authorities.
[SEE "The Truth About ACORN's Voter Registration Drives,"
http://acorn.org/quickfacts]
[SEE ALSO "Group Answers Charges of Voter Registration Fraud," New
York Times, October 14, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/4togtf ]

ACORN REPORTED THE FRAUDULENT REGISTRATION FORMS. In most states,
ACORN is required by law to submit all forms collected whether they
appear to be bogus or not—that way election officials, not partisan
groups, can make the call. ACORN flags cards that may not be
legitimate. And in many places, the charges of fraud only came up
because ACORN was the one who flagged the cards.
[SEE "Voter Group Admits Mistakes, Defends Work," ABC News, October
14, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/4fgks2 ]
[SEE ALSO "Is there ACORN fraud in Florida?," Orlando Sentinel,
October 15, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/49gpal ]

THIS WON'T HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE ELECTION. No one is allowed to vote
unless they are properly registered. And there is no evidence of false
registrations actually leading to organized voting fraud.
[SEE "'Fraud' vs. 'Suppression'," Politico, October 14, 2008,
http://tinyurl.com/4megef ]

The false charges of voting fraud leveled at ACORN distract us from
the very real voter suppression campaign that is already well under
way. Republicans are looking for typos on voter registration forms,
threatening to challenge homeowners facing foreclosure, and falsely
warning that voters with outstanding traffic tickets may be arrested
if they go to the polls.
[SEE "After A Surge in Registration, A Surge in Suppression," Brennan
Center for Justice, October 7, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/53hhbx ]
[SEE ALSO "Democrats fear GOP will turn away foreclosed voters; GOP
won't rule out using residency change to challenge a ballot,"
Indianapolis Star, October 3, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/3shcpw ]
[SEE ALSO "Vote-scam fliers target black neighborhoods," Philadelphia
Daily News, October 2, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/4zpmgw ]
[SEE ALSO "Check-off box delays thousands of voter registrations,"
Denver Post, October 14, 2008, http://tinyurl.com/4xajd7 ]

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Thursday, October 16, 2008

26 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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