Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 10 topics

Saturday, February 14, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: America is doomed without industrial restoration
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 4:23 pm
From: "Bill Bonde { No matter what happens, it's caused by global warming )"

wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> All the bailouts... and the stimulii...all the hot air....the debt...
> the debt servicing... they DON"T MATTER
>
> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the
> loss of US created wealth.
> Unless the US can rebuild its manufacturing capability it will be a
> long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>
> Generating paper has never saved a country from its expoitators.
>
> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
> and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
> powerhouse again
>
Kook Alert.

--
He and Evie soon fell into a conversation of the "No, I didn't;
yes, you did" type--conversation which, though fascinating to those
who are engaged in it, neither desires nor deserves the attention
of others.
-+E.M. Forster, "Howards End"

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 5:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill Bonde wrote
> John A. Weeks III wrote
>> wismel@yahoo.com wrote:

>>> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the loss of US created wealth.

>> Ummm, worker productivity has been at an all time high for quite
>> some time, and has been surging ahead over the past few months.
>> There is no issue with productivity.

>>> Unless the US can rebuild its manufacturing capability it will be a
>>> long slide into a third world level of subsistence.

>> Ummm, the US is at an all time high for manufacturing at the moment.
>> We manufacture far more than we did in 15 years ago. That is now
>> an issue right now.

>>> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
>>> and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
>>> powerhouse again

>> That sounds like the old burry you head in the sand and hope it
>> goes away theory. Good luck with that.

> There is an issue with regards to the balance of trade.
> For some reason the Chinese economy is tanking,

Because the world economy is tanking and so exports are dropping.

> imports are going down,

Because the chinese economy is tanking.

> and yet they are still running about a $30bn a month trade surplus.

Yep, because even when the world economy is tanking, that does not mean zero exports.

People still need to buy lots of stuff.

> Meanwhile the people are starving.

Nope, no chinese are starving.

> How about employing Americans to grow some food and sell it to China?

They do.

> The blackhole that this money is going into needs to stop.

Easier said than done.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 10:54 pm
From: B1ackwater

me@privacy.net wrote:

>B1ackwater <bw@barrk.net> wrote:
>
>> 'Capitalism' is inherently a positive-feedback system ... and
>> therefore highly unstable. Left alone, it oscillates wildly
>> between boom and bust. While this may serve a few savvy (or
>> lucky) speculators & investors it's not GOOD enough as the
>> basis for modern 1st-world economies & nations. It HAS to be
>> tempered, regulated, plugged into some negative feedback in
>> order to damp-out the oscillations.
>
>Interesting!
>
>have some links on this?

It's cybernetics 101 ....

A pity it's not a required course for anyone in
the sciences (physicians, especially, would benifit).

We like to think we and are endeavours are *special* somehow,
beyond crass qualificataion/quantification.

Nope.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Car Insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0743cd326690fd99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 5:21 pm
From: "Lou"

"Dave" <noway1@nohow2.not> wrote in message
news:gn7015$smt$1@news.motzarella.org...
> >>
> >> That's another way of saying that health care costs are TOTALLY out of
> >> control. -Dave
> >>
> > I'm saying nothing of the kind, and that's another subject anyway. At
the
> > moment, that's the way the world is, and a prudent person does what s/he
> > can
> > to deal with it. It's certainly not an argument for not buying auto
> > insurance.
>
> Well didn't mean to change the subject. But it's typical for a one-night
> hospital stay to cost more than a middle-class families gross YEARLY
income.
> If that is not a broken health care system, what is? -Dave

I guess it depends on what you mean by "broken". If health care was where
it was 50 years ago when I was a kid, I'd be 10 years dead by now. And
though my recent surgery was characterized as minor (one day in the
hospital, back to work in four days, could have probably been back in three
if I pushed it) without it I had a 50% chance of losing either or both legs
sometime in the next 10 years. And again, back in my youth, this particular
procedure wasn't available.

So I'll grant it was expensive, more expensive than I'd expected. But
personally, it was worth it.

Health care reform isn't going to change how much it costs to build or
maintain a hospital, or a CAT scanner, or anything else. It may "control"
costs by making things like CAT scans and certain procedures and medications
less available. Other than that, it mostly shifts the burden of payment
around.

And it's still not an argument for not having auto insurance.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 5:30 pm
From: "Lou"

"Dave Garland" <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in message
news:HJCdnUuXGr1hgwrUnZ2dnUVZ_tzinZ2d@posted.visi...
> Lou wrote:
> > "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote in message
> >> That's another way of saying that health care costs are TOTALLY out of
> >> control.
> >>
> > I'm saying nothing of the kind, and that's another subject anyway. At
the
> > moment, that's the way the world is,
>
> Actually, that's the way the USA is, not the world.
>
> Another Dave

Oh please - if you live somewhere else and are subject to different rules,
then your situation is different, and what you do in response to that
situation is different. I presumed the original question was from someone
in the US, and at the moment, if you live in the US, that is the way the
world is, as far as you're concerned. It's not going to help you one bit
if, standing in a courtroom, you say that somewhere else you wouldn't have
to pay the medical bills incurred by someone you injured.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 7:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou wrote:
> "Dave" <noway1@nohow2.not> wrote in message
> news:gn7015$smt$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>>>
>>>> That's another way of saying that health care costs are TOTALLY
>>>> out of control. -Dave
>>>>
>>> I'm saying nothing of the kind, and that's another subject anyway.
>>> At the moment, that's the way the world is, and a prudent person
>>> does what s/he can
>>> to deal with it. It's certainly not an argument for not buying auto
>>> insurance.
>>
>> Well didn't mean to change the subject. But it's typical for a
>> one-night hospital stay to cost more than a middle-class families
>> gross YEARLY income. If that is not a broken health care system,
>> what is? -Dave
>
> I guess it depends on what you mean by "broken". If health care was
> where it was 50 years ago when I was a kid, I'd be 10 years dead by
> now. And though my recent surgery was characterized as minor (one
> day in the hospital, back to work in four days, could have probably
> been back in three if I pushed it) without it I had a 50% chance of
> losing either or both legs sometime in the next 10 years. And again,
> back in my youth, this particular procedure wasn't available.
>
> So I'll grant it was expensive, more expensive than I'd expected. But
> personally, it was worth it.

> Health care reform isn't going to change how much it costs to
> build or maintain a hospital, or a CAT scanner, or anything else.

It can, actually. When the Jap system didnt allow high charges for
CAT scans, that forced the Japs to make much cheaper CAT scanners
and they now flog those to the rest of the world at those lower prices.

> It may "control" costs by making things like CAT scans
> and certain procedures and medications less available.

Didnt happen in Japan. They are all still freely available with no waiting
time at all, no possibility of the system telling you you cant have them,
and with a $10 per day hospital charge mandated if you are happy with
a 4 bed ward, $90 if you want to pay for a private ward instead.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

> Other than that, it mostly shifts the burden of payment around.

Wrong. It drastically cuts the cost of health care.
Thats why everywhere else has MUCH cheaper total health care costs than the US has.

> And it's still not an argument for not having auto insurance.

Wrong again. If you can only be charged what the Jap system charges, many would self insure.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it legal for a company to SHORTEN their advertised warranty?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a48e6176efb2e22e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 5:21 pm
From: albundy2@mailinator.com

OhioGuy wrote:
> I've run into a couple of instances recently where a company seems to
> have retroactively changed the warranty on a product. The first was the
> actual manufacturer, and the second was a reseller.
>
> The first was a Logitech Trackman Wheel trackball, model # T-BB18.
> Inside the retail box, it clearly describes it as "Logitech warrants
> that any hardware products accompanying this documentation shall be free
> from significant defects in material and workmanship for a period of
> five years from the date of purchase." On the back of the box, it even
> says in French, Garantie 5 ans, and in Spanish, Garantia de 5 anos. I
> think it was pretty clear cut.
>
> However, when I got on the website and put in the model # and
> everything, they only show a 3 year warranty for it. 2 years
> disappeared! So instead of having just under 4 years left, I supposedly
> only have less than 2 years. Not nice being told your warranty has been
> cut in half, and you're not getting what the box said you were.
> Normally it wouldn't be much of an issue, but the cord developed some
> sort of short circuit about 3" from where it leaves the trackball, so
> I'm going to try to get it replaced under the warranty. (granted - it's
> a first for any Logitech product I've ever owned)
>
> The other instance was a digital projector that was advertised on
> Tigerdirect.com with a 24 month warranty on parts, and a 24 month
> warranty on labor. (the manufacturer's website says that the warranty
> varies by reseller) At the time I placed my order, I decided it would
> also be prudent to grab a screenshot of the page showing the two year
> warranty.
>
> I'm glad I did, because now that Tigerdirect is sold out, when I go
> to the same page and look at the description, it has been changed to
> show only a 12 month warranty on parts and labor - not 24 months. I
> have proof that it was marketed and sold as having a two year warranty,
> so I hope the manufacturer will honor this if I need to have the unit
> serviced during that time.
>
> How about you - have you noticed any similar changing of an
> advertised warranty after the fact?

Warranties change all the time. You're jumping the gun. Nobody denied
you you warranty. Where did you get the idea that a company had to
keep everything the same for every buyer after you?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's all falling apart, isn't it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaee75672b67549f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 6:03 pm
From: phil scott

On Feb 14, 3:11 pm, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> on 2/14/09 4:21 PM Dave Garland said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dan wrote:
>
> >> Just forget the unemployment rate. Look at your TOTAL TAXATION AND FEES
> >> hit. That is directly correlated to the DOLE TRAIN.
>
> > If you include Halliburton and the military in the "dole train"
> > (invading and occupying foreign countries doesn't come cheap), along
> > with wealthy sports team owners who get tax money to build stadiums
> > with, and greedy business owners who demand tax breaks for their
> > business (so that the rest of us have to carry their share), and the
> > bankers who get multimillion dollar bonuses when their banks go down
> > the tubes (we have to bail them out because the Bushies failed to
> > regulate the banks), and the auto drivers who expect to have their
> > travel subsidized (gas tax only pays about half of the cost). And the
> > places where politicians let the infrastructure go to hell rather than
> > spending the money necessary to maintain it. Ya, the "dole train" is
> > pretty big. Personally, it ticks me off more when it's the rich with
> > their hands out.
>
> > Dave
>
> And all of that is reflected total taxes and fees (look at your
> receipts!). I am trying to figure out where to move, but it seems the
> whole world is jumping on the Dole Train.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

beyond whats on the reciepts you get is the taxes hidden in the cost
of producing the goods or service you bought... for instance if the
plumber you hired is in the 25% bracket federal. 15% self employment
tax, and 12% state tax...fuel and other fees... his cost is up 60% or
so... and that is passed on to you.... and of course he must buy
groceries and there is hidden taxes in that...

an accurate accounting for the actual total taxes we pay would have
most of us in the 70 to 80% range... and of course we cant pay it...so
we borrow. and our govt still over spends, so issues bonds to other
nations... we are now the worlds biggest debtor.... with no way in
hell to even pay the interest in it without going even deeper into
debt.

A way out it personally is to have no or very few taxable assets, and
earn less than the income tax threshold. that leaves you in a net
40 tax bracket (because the goods and serrvices you buy are taxed and
that is passed on to you.... that approach is at least
sustainable. You wont have to work yourself to death to live.

why are all these taxes necessary? Here is one of many examples...
did you know that police and firement, rank an file types, not
chiefs... retire at 90 to 100% of the last years pay in most
states...and that amount is based on their *last years pay... which
can be spiked to approxx double in the last year by saving vacation
time for a few years back, sick days. uniform allowances and by others
taking off sick so the last year guys can work double and triple over
time. These are retiring mostly well over 100,000 dollars year,
many over 150,000 dollars a year... half of that not taxable, and with
100% health insurance for life.

(chiefs retire at 250k after two years vested as chief, many then
rotate with others to draw several such retirments)

One might considerr how many working people it takes to fund just one
flat foots retirement (and no... police and firemen jobs are not
dangerous, not even in the top 10... roofers, nurses and plumbers are
in the top 10)

Net cost of that to cities is in the 70 to 80% of the net tax base...
and 45% of that pays *just the retirement costs.

It is this mess at the core of our state and local financial
disasters... at the federal level its a different set of issues.

Phil scott

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 7:19 pm
From: Dan

on 2/14/09 8:03 PM phil scott said the following:
> On Feb 14, 3:11 pm, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> on 2/14/09 4:21 PM Dave Garland said the following:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>> Just forget the unemployment rate. Look at your TOTAL TAXATION AND FEES
>>>> hit. That is directly correlated to the DOLE TRAIN.
>>> If you include Halliburton and the military in the "dole train"
>>> (invading and occupying foreign countries doesn't come cheap), along
>>> with wealthy sports team owners who get tax money to build stadiums
>>> with, and greedy business owners who demand tax breaks for their
>>> business (so that the rest of us have to carry their share), and the
>>> bankers who get multimillion dollar bonuses when their banks go down
>>> the tubes (we have to bail them out because the Bushies failed to
>>> regulate the banks), and the auto drivers who expect to have their
>>> travel subsidized (gas tax only pays about half of the cost). And the
>>> places where politicians let the infrastructure go to hell rather than
>>> spending the money necessary to maintain it. Ya, the "dole train" is
>>> pretty big. Personally, it ticks me off more when it's the rich with
>>> their hands out.
>>> Dave
>> And all of that is reflected total taxes and fees (look at your
>> receipts!). I am trying to figure out where to move, but it seems the
>> whole world is jumping on the Dole Train.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> beyond whats on the reciepts you get is the taxes hidden in the cost
> of producing the goods or service you bought... for instance if the
> plumber you hired is in the 25% bracket federal. 15% self employment
> tax, and 12% state tax...fuel and other fees... his cost is up 60% or
> so... and that is passed on to you.... and of course he must buy
> groceries and there is hidden taxes in that...
>
> an accurate accounting for the actual total taxes we pay would have
> most of us in the 70 to 80% range... and of course we cant pay it...so
> we borrow. and our govt still over spends, so issues bonds to other
> nations... we are now the worlds biggest debtor.... with no way in
> hell to even pay the interest in it without going even deeper into
> debt.
>
>
> A way out it personally is to have no or very few taxable assets, and
> earn less than the income tax threshold. that leaves you in a net
> 40 tax bracket (because the goods and serrvices you buy are taxed and
> that is passed on to you.... that approach is at least
> sustainable. You wont have to work yourself to death to live.
>
> why are all these taxes necessary? Here is one of many examples...
> did you know that police and firement, rank an file types, not
> chiefs... retire at 90 to 100% of the last years pay in most
> states...and that amount is based on their *last years pay... which
> can be spiked to approxx double in the last year by saving vacation
> time for a few years back, sick days. uniform allowances and by others
> taking off sick so the last year guys can work double and triple over
> time. These are retiring mostly well over 100,000 dollars year,
> many over 150,000 dollars a year... half of that not taxable, and with
> 100% health insurance for life.
>
> (chiefs retire at 250k after two years vested as chief, many then
> rotate with others to draw several such retirments)
>
>
> One might considerr how many working people it takes to fund just one
> flat foots retirement (and no... police and firemen jobs are not
> dangerous, not even in the top 10... roofers, nurses and plumbers are
> in the top 10)
>
>
>
>
> Net cost of that to cities is in the 70 to 80% of the net tax base...
> and 45% of that pays *just the retirement costs.
>
>
> It is this mess at the core of our state and local financial
> disasters... at the federal level its a different set of issues.
>
>
> Phil scott
>
>

I certainly hope as a business owner you are also looking at the tax and
fee hit assessed on your business.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 7:27 pm
From: phil scott

On Feb 14, 7:19 pm, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> on 2/14/09 8:03 PM phil scott said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 3:11 pm, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> >> on 2/14/09 4:21 PM Dave Garland said the following:
>
> >>> Dan wrote:
> >>>> Just forget the unemployment rate. Look at your TOTAL TAXATION AND FEES
> >>>> hit. That is directly correlated to the DOLE TRAIN.
> >>> If you include Halliburton and the military in the "dole train"
> >>> (invading and occupying foreign countries doesn't come cheap), along
> >>> with wealthy sports team owners who get tax money to build stadiums
> >>> with, and greedy business owners who demand tax breaks for their
> >>> business (so that the rest of us have to carry their share), and the
> >>> bankers who get multimillion dollar bonuses when their banks go down
> >>> the tubes (we have to bail them out because the Bushies failed to
> >>> regulate the banks), and the auto drivers who expect to have their
> >>> travel subsidized (gas tax only pays about half of the cost). And the
> >>> places where politicians let the infrastructure go to hell rather than
> >>> spending the money necessary to maintain it. Ya, the "dole train" is
> >>> pretty big. Personally, it ticks me off more when it's the rich with
> >>> their hands out.
> >>> Dave
> >> And all of that is reflected total taxes and fees (look at your
> >> receipts!). I am trying to figure out where to move, but it seems the
> >> whole world is jumping on the Dole Train.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > beyond whats on the reciepts you get is the taxes hidden in the cost
> > of producing the goods or service you bought... for instance if the
> > plumber you hired is in the 25% bracket federal. 15% self employment
> > tax, and 12% state tax...fuel and other fees... his cost is up 60% or
> > so... and that is passed on to you.... and of course he must buy
> > groceries and there is hidden taxes in that...
>
> > an accurate accounting for the actual total taxes we pay would have
> > most of us in the 70 to 80% range... and of course we cant pay it...so
> > we borrow. and our govt still over spends, so issues bonds to other
> > nations... we are now the worlds biggest debtor.... with no way in
> > hell to even pay the interest in it without going even deeper into
> > debt.
>
> > A way out it personally is to have no or very few taxable assets, and
> > earn less than the income tax threshold. that leaves you in a net
> > 40 tax bracket (because the goods and serrvices you buy are taxed and
> > that is passed on to you.... that approach is at least
> > sustainable. You wont have to work yourself to death to live.
>
> > why are all these taxes necessary? Here is one of many examples...
> > did you know that police and firement, rank an file types, not
> > chiefs... retire at 90 to 100% of the last years pay in most
> > states...and that amount is based on their *last years pay... which
> > can be spiked to approxx double in the last year by saving vacation
> > time for a few years back, sick days. uniform allowances and by others
> > taking off sick so the last year guys can work double and triple over
> > time. These are retiring mostly well over 100,000 dollars year,
> > many over 150,000 dollars a year... half of that not taxable, and with
> > 100% health insurance for life.
>
> > (chiefs retire at 250k after two years vested as chief, many then
> > rotate with others to draw several such retirments)
>
> > One might considerr how many working people it takes to fund just one
> > flat foots retirement (and no... police and firemen jobs are not
> > dangerous, not even in the top 10... roofers, nurses and plumbers are
> > in the top 10)
>
> > Net cost of that to cities is in the 70 to 80% of the net tax base...
> > and 45% of that pays *just the retirement costs.
>
> > It is this mess at the core of our state and local financial
> > disasters... at the federal level its a different set of issues.
>
> > Phil scott
>
> I certainly hope as a business owner you are also looking at the tax and
> fee hit assessed on your business.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Im semi retired, largely below that threshold thank god.

staying small and ungreedy so to speak has wonderful advantages.

***
Here is a piece I wrote about the larger mess... we are breeding
idiots.

Summary:

We evolve on a second by second basis... our genetics are not changed
by this, but the magnitude of various driving charcteristics is
changed radically.

Survival characteristics, such as an ability to focus or seek out
ways to get ahead.... be productive, educated and be competent for
instance..... are vaporized.

In noticing the current generation... to a large extent.... these are
just fooling around, giggling in the coffee shops, and behaving like
idiots....

the trivial is their entire life.

they dont know strife. Let alone what previous generations
experienced, surviving wars, depressions, or hard fought business, and
trades work etc.

We have it easy now. These are the virulent seeds of absolute
disaster imo.

can I blame these people?

Not actually. I can't blame them.

These are products of the easy living culture we have, few of these
kids get any challenge, low end jobs given to illegal imigrants, the
high end work moved off shore....or into corporations where getting
along with a corrupt management is required to stay employed.

Such things as expressing a controversial opininion are now frowned on
or outright illegal... we have bred more than an incompetent class...
we have bred a class of people that will never know victor

We are now looking down the gun barrel of defeat on several fronts.

The epigenetics spinning from this situation second by second, then
extended during ones formative years are entirely fatal to a nations
ability to be economically viable.

***

Countering this and offering substantial hope historically and a vast
resurrection is the national collapse cycle of nations... starvation,
hard times...and civil strife brings back the grit and glint of intent
in ones eye....

These types run the pipe straight, the wring neat... they take the
time to understand why it is necessary to operate that way. Prior
to such stress we do sloppy work. Its fatal in the end... the person
degrades under such operating conditions.

Phil scott

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 8:55 pm
From: josejarvie@ssnet.net

The big banks knew what they were doing, but they knew they were too big to fail, too politically connected to
fail. The people who created this disaster knew how it was going to end. The U.S. economy is being
restructured IMF style.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:32:26 -0500, in misc.consumers.frugal-living "meport" <jjme169@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Wrong. They aren't dumber than anyone else. Greedier than most, maybe.
>More conniving than most, I doubt it because most people would have done the
>exact thing given the chance. Lacking the moral core of most, possibly.
>But not dumber.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 9:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

josejarvie@ssnet.net wrote:

> The big banks knew what they were doing,

Like hell they did. No one would deliberately produce
a complete implosion of the world financial system.

> but they knew they were too big to fail, too politically connected to fail.

Utterly silly conspiracy theory.

> The people who created this disaster knew how it was going to end.

Utterly mindless conspiracy theory.

> The U.S. economy is being restructured IMF style.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

> meport <jjme169@earthlink.net> wrote
>
>> Wrong. They aren't dumber than anyone else. Greedier than most,
>> maybe. More conniving than most, I doubt it because most people
>> would have done the exact thing given the chance. Lacking the moral
>> core of most, possibly. But not dumber.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Epigenetics...the care and breeding of idiots
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f9724e9e0716cdd8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 7:08 pm
From: phil scott

.
Summary:

We evolve on a second by second basis... our genetics are not changed
by this, but the magnitude of various driving charcteristics is
changed redically.

Survival characteristics, such as an ability to focus or seek out
ways to get ahead.... be productive, educated and be competent for
instance..... are vaporized.

In noticing the current generation... to a large extent.... these are
just fooling around, giggling in the coffee shops, and behaving like
idiots.... the trivial is their entire life.

they dont know strife. Let alone what previous generations
experienced, surviving wars, depressions, or hard fought business, and
trades work etc. We have it easy now. These are the virulent
seeds of absolute disaster imo.

can I blame them? Not actually. I cant blame them.

and such things as expressing a controversial opininion now frowned
on or outright illegal... we have bred more than an incompetent
class... we have bred a class of people that will never know victory.

We are now looking down the gun barrel of defeat.

The epigenetics spinning from this situation second by second, then
extended during ones formative years are entirely fatal to a nations
ability to be economically viable.

***
Countering this and offering substantial hope historically and a vast
resurrection is the national collapse cycle of a nation... starvation,
hard times...and civil strife brings back the grit and glint of intent
in ones eye....

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning about Fieldbreeze clf light bulbs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7001956c61da27d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 8:23 pm
From: skulluton@live.com

pictures of CFL that melted down and burned http://www.execulink.com/~impact/fieldbreeze.htm

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 8:25 pm
From: skulluton@live.com

skullu...@live.com wrote:
> pictures of CFL that melted down and burned http://www.execulink.com/~impact/fieldbreeze.htm

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:13 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <695ddbcb-02d9-4e03-9e66-86199c848eca@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
skulluton@live.com wrote:
>pictures of CFL that melted down and burned
>http://www.execulink.com/~impact/fieldbreeze.htm

Not that I actually viewed this, but...

My personal experience is that among CFLs "Fieldbreeze" is one of the
"dollar store brands" for "dollar store junkers" of CFLs.

My personal experience of all CFLs sold at "dollar stores" in USA for
USD/$ 1.99 or less, amounting to 20 "brands" and 69 "models" that I spent
significantly more than USD $69 on evaluating and in a few cases sent a
few units to a friend of mine at-best replicating/reinforcing my negative
opinion on "dollar store CFLs"...

http://members.misty.com/don/cfdollar.html

It appears to me that the immediately-above link tells the stories
(sometimes indirectly) "sufficiently well" of junker-clunker CFLs, based
on experience that I had (maybe a small bit indirectly from a fairly
close "online friend') and mostly said citably at least about 4 months
ago.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: need a small, inexpensive urban TV antenna
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22d545ae9e8cb014?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 8:51 pm
From: josejarvie@ssnet.net

I can not get any TV reception with analog so I guess the same will be true with digital. If I want TV here
I'll have to stay with cable or satellite.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:49:05 -0500, in misc.consumers.frugal-living OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> Hmm. It seems like there is really some antagonism over digital TV.
> No, the switchover does not solve everything. For some folks, it
>actually CAUSES problems.
>
> For example, my grandfather has an antenna rotor, and is able to pull
>in about 15 analog channels acceptably, perhaps 10 without moving the
>rotor. When he hooked up a digital set top box, suddenly he could only
>pull in half as many channels, and some of these occasionally pixellated
>out. This was very frustrating to him, and he assumed something was
>wrong with the unit. He is approx 60 miles from the nearest
>transmitter, but the ground is very flat, and he has a good antenna up
>about 50 feet. He is an example of one of the folks that will likely
>lose, not gain, when the switchover to digital TV is complete. No
>matter what he does with installing preamps and such, I doubt that he'll
>ever be able to get as many channels as he got previously.
>
> I had a lot of trouble myself at first, until I found that my
>placement of the antenna made a huge difference. I slowly moved the
>antenna around until I found a spot where the majority of digital
>channels seemed to come in best. It happened to be right against our
>window, so I ended up using duct tape to hold it right in that spot,
>behind the curtains.
>
> I've noticed that some of the digital receiver set top boxes are
>sorely lacking. I've tried 3 different ones before I found one that
>satisfied me - the TR-40 CRA, which is about $10 cheaper than the 100%
>same thing - DTV Pal, from Dish Network. What I liked about it:
>
>A) pulled in some weaker stations the others did not get
>
>B) it has a REAL program guide. While I can only see about 8 to 12
>hours into the future with it right now, the menu says that if the local
>channels provide the info, it can show something like 4 days worth of
>upcoming info.
>
>C) it has a timer, so you can set up a timed recording, and it will tune
>to that channel at that time, & you can use your VCR to record the show.
> Just like a VCR, you can set up a one time, daily, weekly, etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hard boiled eggs.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/032a3102de8f165d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 9:00 pm
From: josejarvie@ssnet.net

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 08:12:00 -0600, in misc.consumers.frugal-living BillGill <billnews2@cox.net> wrote:

>James wrote:
>> My local Safeway has large eggs on sale this week for 99 cents a
>> dozen.
>>
>> If I cook a bunch of hard boiled eggs would they keep in their shells
>> at room temperature? I don't have room in the fridge.
>
>I recall the time when we didn't find all of the Easter eggs one Easter.
>Then some time later we found the one that was missing. Too bad it
>didn't disappear forever. I wouldn't even try that.
>
>Bill

They don't refrigerate eggs in England.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bubbles are caused by excessive credit.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d06a55cb7610180d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 10:43 pm
From: "(David P.)"

The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
excessive credit, i.e., saying that everyone is a
valuable asset as long as they live.
L I K E H E L L T H E Y A R E ! !
Hordes are no longer viable, due to infirmity,
and become a drag on the system.
.
.
--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Survivalism Retail Style
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:14 pm
From: Winston_Smith

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
><EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
>> In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
>>> inflation?
>>
>> Winston says Yes.
>
>Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
>(stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but you
>can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same time.

You can have inflation in one area and deflation in another. Esk
can't understand that.

I'll bet your stocks and the value of your house is deflating.
I'll bet your grocery bill is inflating.

It's Esk's oversimplification that asset/commodity values and retail
prices are somehow magically linked. Take that up with him.

Hasn't the Bush/Obama teams' answer to stock market deflation been to
inflate the money supply? Still the market deflates. Esk will
explain why this isn't really happening in his little world.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:15 pm
From: Winston_Smith

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

>In misc.survivalism F. George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>
>> Spondulicks are dollar denominated securities that circulate just
>> like money.
>
>Ah. So nothing exists that meets the definition.

Not to worry. You are the one that told us you made up your own
definitions because you didn't like the standard one.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:16 pm
From: Winston_Smith

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

>In misc.survivalism Ed Huntress <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>> news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
>> > In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
>> >> inflation?
>> >
>> > Winston says Yes.
>
>> Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
>> (stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but you
>> can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same time.
>
>Yep. But try to tell him that, and he will change the subject.

But you keep telling me it's wrong for me to keep going back to the
same subject. I'll do it your way. Do you have a way or do you just
run off at the mouth?

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:21 pm
From: Winston_Smith

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

>In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>
>> Early in Reagan's term we were worried about stagflation, it seem to be
>> upon us now.

Which started when Nixon's failed war for mythical oil ended (sound
familiar), and moved on to inspire Ford to invent WIN buttons*, and
crippled Carter until Reagan inherited the problem.

Don't expect the Bush folly to end any time soon.

>Not nearly. Inflation is not in the double-digits. Indeed, many folks
>are worried about deflation instead.

Stagflation does not require anything as specific as double digit
inflation.

*Whip Inflation Now

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:23 pm
From: Winston_Smith

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

>In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:06:31 +0000, EskWIRED wrote:
>
>> > In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> Then the inflating prices of commodities, cost of livign, may finally
>> >> be seen clearly.
>> >
>> > Commodities are droppig in price currently.
>
>> That depends on your reference, long term moving average is way up.
>
>Notice that I said "currently". Please don't just change the subject.
>
>
>> Corn has more than doubled since Bush took office, down only in the last
>> 18 months from a peak but up overall.
>> http://futures.tradingcharts.com/printchart/CN/M
>
>"Currently", is what I said.

You really do like to go with the currents don't you? Every time you
are wrong or get stuck, you say the currents have changed. Very
slippery technique.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 14 2009 11:26 pm
From: Winston_Smith

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:

>In misc.survivalism Jones <jones@jones.com> wrote:
>
>> > I see no mitigating indicators in the near term to replace those which will inevitably peter out.
>
>> Because you dont have a clue about the basics.
>
>That is increasing apparent.
>
>Winston - this stuff interests you. But you are confused about basic
>relationships. You'd enjoy these discussion more if you were on
>solid ground.

Who on earth are you talking to? I'm not in this sub thread. Do try
to get a grip, man!

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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