Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics

Friday, October 9, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WHAT TO DO IN CASE OF STUCK GAS PEDAL Re: Motorists KILLED due to floor
mat jamming up gas pedal, including an odfficer and his family
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/beda867f55c92986?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 6:45 am
From: RickMerrill

zeez wrote:
>
> enough wrote:
>> If this happens to you, the best thing to do is throw the car in
>> NEUTRAL, so you keep your power brakes and steering, failing that,
>> turn off the ignition (note, the Lexus with push button Start requires
>> you to hold down the button for a few seconds to shut off the engine)

Bull! You will not KNOW that it is a stuck gas pedal - it COULD be that
you have pressed the pedal instead of the BRAKE. Therefore what you
should be prepared to do Immediately is to put BOTH FEET ON THE BRAKE!

Furthermore, putting the car into neutral (assuming a stuck pedal) will
cause the engine to over rev and it will soon (probably) explode!
INSTEAD switch off the engine UNLESS you need to steer!!

You will already have put both feet on the brake so you are not
concerned with loss of power brakes.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 7:19 am
From: ranck@vt.edu

In misc.consumers.frugal-living RickMerrill <Rick0.merrill@gmail.lessspam.com> wrote:
> zeez wrote:
> >
> > enough wrote:
> >> If this happens to you, the best thing to do is throw the car in
> >> NEUTRAL, so you keep your power brakes and steering, failing that,
> >> turn off the ignition (note, the Lexus with push button Start requires
> >> you to hold down the button for a few seconds to shut off the engine)

> Bull! You will not KNOW that it is a stuck gas pedal - it COULD be that
> you have pressed the pedal instead of the BRAKE. Therefore what you
> should be prepared to do Immediately is to put BOTH FEET ON THE BRAKE!

Well, yes, make sure you really are on the brake. Manual transmission
cars don't have a big enough brake pedal to get both feet on, but
for automatics this is good advice.

> Furthermore, putting the car into neutral (assuming a stuck pedal) will
> cause the engine to over rev and it will soon (probably) explode!

For most modern cars with fuel injection (pretty much anything less
than 20 years old) there will be a rev limiter that prevents the
engine from over-revving. Engines will not explode. They might
fail dramatically, but not literally explode.

> INSTEAD switch off the engine UNLESS you need to steer!!

Nope, get it into neutral, bring it to a stop, then switch off.
If the motor damages itself, so what?

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:40 am
From: RickMerrill

ranck@vt.edu wrote:
> In misc.consumers.frugal-living RickMerrill <Rick0.merrill@gmail.lessspam.com> wrote:
>> zeez wrote:
>>> enough wrote:
>>>> If this happens to you, the best thing to do is throw the car in
>>>> NEUTRAL, so you keep your power brakes and steering, failing that,
>>>> turn off the ignition (note, the Lexus with push button Start requires
>>>> you to hold down the button for a few seconds to shut off the engine)
>
>> Bull! You will not KNOW that it is a stuck gas pedal - it COULD be that
>> you have pressed the pedal instead of the BRAKE. Therefore what you
>> should be prepared to do Immediately is to put BOTH FEET ON THE BRAKE!
>
> Well, yes, make sure you really are on the brake. Manual transmission
> cars don't have a big enough brake pedal to get both feet on, but
> for automatics this is good advice.
>
>> Furthermore, putting the car into neutral (assuming a stuck pedal) will
>> cause the engine to over rev and it will soon (probably) explode!
>
> For most modern cars with fuel injection (pretty much anything less
> than 20 years old) there will be a rev limiter that prevents the
> engine from over-revving. Engines will not explode. They might
> fail dramatically, but not literally explode.
>
>> INSTEAD switch off the engine UNLESS you need to steer!!
>
> Nope, get it into neutral, bring it to a stop, then switch off.
> If the motor damages itself, so what?
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

Fair enough! Red-lining the engine is not too too good for it.

One evening I saw a smoking car, parked, the driver asleep with his
foot on the throttle! (40 yrs ago, so it could have caught fire) I
reported it via CB radio, reached in front of the driver and turned
off the switch - he just kept on snoring!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the Price of Marijuana to come down.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/49f81ea069abe782?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 7:02 am
From: geo

In article <aNWdnfy2oMonrVLXnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Balvenieman <balvenieman@invalid.net> wrote:

> geo <georgewk@toast.net> wrote:
>
> >But some legal scholars and policy analysts say the government will
> >not be able to require California to help in enforcing the federal
> >marijuana ban if the state legalizes the drug.
> Sure it can: By simply making the public money teat contingent on
> "helping".

but will they;
States Rights !

and for prices to come down, the Gummint will have to curtail it's
price support system. "Law" enforcement.
--
money; what a concept!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:07 am
From: Tony Sivori

geo wrote:

> "traveler" <Vallecito@aol.com> wrote:
>> dispensaries into all-purpose pot stores, and the open sale of joints
>> could become commonplace on mom-and-pop liquor store counters
>

Wouldn't it be a lot more frugal to quit smoking dope? Not judging. Just
sayin'.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Promote the general welfare of the United States" - doesn't mean what
leftists think
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 7:51 am
From: Wilson Woods

Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> K wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a
>>>> nation.
>>>
>>>
>>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
>>> citizens.
>>
>>
>> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's
>> individual welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as
>> a political entity. That's what it means.
>
> I find Woods' argument compelling. Namely, healthy citizens

It does not provide a rationale for providing medical care to citizens.
The use of "welfare" in the Constitution doesn't provide a rationale
for Congress giving any goods and services to citizens.

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 7:52 am
From: Wilson Woods

Gogarty wrote:
> In article <JdqdnSG3ivinWlPXnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kvisions@live.con
> says...
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
>>> citizens.
>> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's individual
>> welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as a political
>> entity. That's what it means.
>
> What is a nation that it should have a life distinct from its citizens whose
> welfare is no concern of the nation?

The use of the word welfare does not mean providing goods and services
to citizens.

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:28 am
From: Josh Rosenbluth

On Oct 9, 10:51 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> > K wrote:
> >> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>
> >>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> >>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> >>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a
> >>>> nation.
>
> >>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
> >>> citizens.
>
> >> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's
> >> individual welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as
> >> a political entity. That's what it means.
>
> > I find Woods' argument compelling. Namely, healthy citizens
>
> It does not provide a rationale for providing medical care to citizens.
> The use of "welfare" in the Constitution doesn't provide a rationale
> for Congress giving any goods and services to citizens.

Looks like I mixed up Woods and Nickname. Nickname has the compelling
argument. Woods presents nothing more than a conclusory statement and
does not address Nickname's point.

Josh Rosenbluth

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:31 am
From: Tater Gumfries

On Oct 8, 12:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.

That ain't what the founders said about it. Sounds like you need a
schoolin too.

Tater

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:40 am
From: Wilson Woods

Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> On Oct 9, 10:51 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
>>> K wrote:
>>>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a
>>>>>> nation.
>>>>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
>>>>> citizens.
>>>> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's
>>>> individual welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as
>>>> a political entity. That's what it means.
>>> I find Woods' argument compelling. Namely, healthy citizens
>> It does not provide a rationale for providing medical care to citizens.
>> The use of "welfare" in the Constitution doesn't provide a rationale
>> for Congress giving any goods and services to citizens.
>
> Looks like I mixed up Woods and Nickname. Nickname has the compelling
> argument.

The stupid shit-4-braincell has no compelling argument at all. He
fundamentally can't read the Constitution and understand what it means.
The welfare referred to in the preamble and in Article I does not
refer to the material wellbeing of citizens. It does not provide a
rationale for providing any goods and services to citizens. People who
want to torture the text of the Constitution to try to make it mean that
know that they're lying sophists.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:40 am
From: K

Tater Gumfries wrote:
> On Oct 8, 12:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>
> That ain't what the founders said about it.

It is.

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:47 am
From: Nickname unavailable

On Oct 9, 12:19 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 2:30 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
> > dog.com> wrote:
> >> K wrote:
> >>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> >>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> >>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
> >> You mix up the Preamble that says Promote and article 1 section 8 that
> >> says provide..... for the welfare of the United states.
>
> >> The Preamble says "promote" So that kills the idea that it authorizes
> >> government to "give" things to the people.
>
> > here is the real truth,
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
>
> > The Preamble to the United States Constitution is
>
> An introductory statement of purpose with no force of law.
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory
statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that the
Constitution is meant to serve. In general terms it states, and courts
have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers'
intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped it
would achieve (especially as compared with the Articles of
Confederation).

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the
Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and
establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

gee, the courts say otherwise.

> >> Yes article 1 section 8 says Provide, but no it doesn't say provide to
> >> the people. It is specific in saying the Congress is to "PROVIDE" for
> >> the Federal Government.
>
> > no,
>
> Yes.
>
> > the united states is a collective of citizens
>
> No.
>

yes, and the courts agree,
The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory
statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that the
Constitution is meant to serve. In general terms it states, and courts
have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers'
intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning and what they hoped it
would achieve (especially as compared with the Articles of
Confederation).

its 'we the people" not we the individuals.

> >> People have distorted these parts of the constitution to create an
> >> imaginary clause of welfare for the people.
>
> > unless of course
>
> No "unless". He is correct: the welfare clauses in the preamble and
> Article I are not about the welfare of people as individual citizens;
> they are about the welfare of the nation as a political entity.
>

keep lying, that hole is getting ever deeper.

> >> Now tell us what United States means...... It means the United States
> >> Government also known today as the federal government as oppose to State
> >> Government or "the people" of Nation.
>
> > we the people.
>
> No. "The United States" in the Constitution means *either* the federal
> government, *or* the nation as a political entity. It does not mean the
> people.

liar,

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:54 am
From: Nickname unavailable

On Oct 9, 12:20 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 3:03 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> >> Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
>
> >>> K wrote:
> >>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> >>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> >>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
> >>> You mix up the Preamble that says Promote and article 1 section 8 that
> >>> says provide..... for the welfare of the United states.
> >>> The Preamble says "promote" So that kills the idea that it authorizes
> >>> government to "give" things to the people.
> >>> Yes article 1 section 8 says Provide, but no it doesn't say provide to
> >>> the people. It is specific in saying the Congress is to "PROVIDE" for
> >>> the Federal Government.
> >> When the words "United States" appear in the Constitution, it means
> >> *either* (narrowly) the federal government, or (broadly) the nation as a
> >> *political* entity. It most assuredly does *NOT* mean the people.
>
> > "We the People of the United States"
>
> Yes?
>
> >> "If you torture the [Constitution] long enough, it will confess" --
> >> paraphrasing Ronald Coase. Leftists attempt to torture the Constitution
> >> until it hollers the meaning the leftists want.
>
> > if you are a lying fascist,
>
> There you go, swearing again. That's all "fascist" is - a swearword.
> It is empty of meaning.

its a fact. deal with it.

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:57 am
From: K

Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 9, 12:19 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 8, 2:30 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
>>> dog.com> wrote:
>>>> K wrote:
>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>>> You mix up the Preamble that says Promote and article 1 section 8 that
>>>> says provide..... for the welfare of the United states.
>>>> The Preamble says "promote" So that kills the idea that it authorizes
>>>> government to "give" things to the people.
>>> here is the real truth,
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
>>> The Preamble to the United States Constitution is
>> An introductory statement of purpose with no force of law.
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
>
> The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory
> statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles that the
> Constitution is meant to serve.

Exactly. And that's *ALL* it is - it has no force of law. No court has
ever held it to have force of law. You're simply wrong.

>>>> Yes article 1 section 8 says Provide, but no it doesn't say provide to
>>>> the people. It is specific in saying the Congress is to "PROVIDE" for
>>>> the Federal Government.
>>> no,
>> Yes.
>>
>>> the united states is a collective of citizens
>> No.
>>
>
>
> yes,

No, no court says that.

>>>> People have distorted these parts of the constitution to create an
>>>> imaginary clause of welfare for the people.
>>> unless of course
>> No "unless". He is correct: the welfare clauses in the preamble and
>> Article I are not about the welfare of people as individual citizens;
>> they are about the welfare of the nation as a political entity.
>>
>
>
> keep lying

I never started. The use of the word welfare in the preamble and
Article I do not refer to the material welfare of people. You're just
wrong on this.

>>>> Now tell us what United States means...... It means the United States
>>>> Government also known today as the federal government as oppose to State
>>>> Government or "the people" of Nation.
>>> we the people.
>> No. "The United States" in the Constitution means *either* the federal
>> government, *or* the nation as a political entity. It does not mean the
>> people.
>
>
> liar,
>

Nope. Sorry, you're just wrong.

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:57 am
From: Nickname unavailable

On Oct 9, 12:22 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> hal wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:30:56 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty
> > <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>
> >> K wrote:
> >>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> >>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> >>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
> >> You mix up the Preamble that says Promote and article 1 section 8 that
> >> says provide..... for the welfare of the United states.
>
> >> The Preamble says "promote" So that kills the idea that it authorizes
> >> government to "give" things to the people.
>
> >> Yes article 1 section 8 says Provide, but no it doesn't say provide to
> >> the people. It is specific in saying the Congress is to "PROVIDE" for
> >> the Federal Government.
>
> >> People have distorted these parts of the constitution to create an
> >> imaginary clause of welfare for the people.
>
> > Welfare for The People
>
> ...does not appear in the Constitution. Sorry.

sure it does, in fact, the courts recognize the preamble as the
original intent of the constitution, and we the people is the first
sentence, in case you have not seen it yet, its here,

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:57 am
From: K

Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 9, 12:20 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>> On Oct 8, 3:03 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>> Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
>>>>> K wrote:
>>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>>>> You mix up the Preamble that says Promote and article 1 section 8 that
>>>>> says provide..... for the welfare of the United states.
>>>>> The Preamble says "promote" So that kills the idea that it authorizes
>>>>> government to "give" things to the people.
>>>>> Yes article 1 section 8 says Provide, but no it doesn't say provide to
>>>>> the people. It is specific in saying the Congress is to "PROVIDE" for
>>>>> the Federal Government.
>>>> When the words "United States" appear in the Constitution, it means
>>>> *either* (narrowly) the federal government, or (broadly) the nation as a
>>>> *political* entity. It most assuredly does *NOT* mean the people.
>>> "We the People of the United States"
>> Yes?
>>
>>>> "If you torture the [Constitution] long enough, it will confess" --
>>>> paraphrasing Ronald Coase. Leftists attempt to torture the Constitution
>>>> until it hollers the meaning the leftists want.
>>> if you are a lying fascist,
>> There you go, swearing again. That's all "fascist" is - a swearword.
>> It is empty of meaning.
>
> its a fact.

It's empty of meaning. It's just swearing, that's all.

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:58 am
From: K

fuckwit bullshitted:
> On Oct 9, 12:22 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>> hal wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:30:56 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty
>>> <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>>>> K wrote:
>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>>> You mix up the Preamble that says Promote and article 1 section 8 that
>>>> says provide..... for the welfare of the United states.
>>>> The Preamble says "promote" So that kills the idea that it authorizes
>>>> government to "give" things to the people.
>>>> Yes article 1 section 8 says Provide, but no it doesn't say provide to
>>>> the people. It is specific in saying the Congress is to "PROVIDE" for
>>>> the Federal Government.
>>>> People have distorted these parts of the constitution to create an
>>>> imaginary clause of welfare for the people.
>>> Welfare for The People
>> ...does not appear in the Constitution. Sorry.
>
> sure it does,

It doesn't; not anywhere in the text of the Constitution.

You're just wrong.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:59 am
From: Nickname unavailable

On Oct 9, 12:33 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>
> > On Oct 8, 3:16 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> >> Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 8, 2:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> >>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> >>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> >>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
> >>> Well, no shit.
> >> Then, we are agreed: "promote the general welfare of the United States"
> >> does not imply either a power or a duty to provide health care. Thanks.
>
> > No.
>
> Yes, we're agreed: no use of the word "welfare" in the Constitution
> creates or implies either a power or a duty of the federal government to
> provide health care. That's simply not what the use of the word
> "welfare" anywhere in the Constitution means.
>
> Thanks.

that's not what the courts see, here it is, we the people, with all
of the promoting and providing that is not only in the preamble, but
also the constitution.

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:01 am
From: K

fuckwit bullshitted:
> On Oct 9, 12:33 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>> Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 8, 3:16 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>> Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 8, 2:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>>>> Well, no shit.
>>>> Then, we are agreed: "promote the general welfare of the United States"
>>>> does not imply either a power or a duty to provide health care. Thanks.
>>> No.
>> Yes, we're agreed: no use of the word "welfare" in the Constitution
>> creates or implies either a power or a duty of the federal government to
>> provide health care. That's simply not what the use of the word
>> "welfare" anywhere in the Constitution means.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> that's not what the courts see, here it is, we the people,

The courts have never spoken on it.

Sorry, you're just wrong, little retard.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap text printer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d0bda871aec2554e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:03 am
From: Warren Block

jeff <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote:
> Girlfriend is in need of a cheap printer for archiving office
> documents. Won't need to worry about color quality. Won't need high
> volume or speed. Availability and cost of black cartridges is an issue.
> So is the cost of the printer and to some extent the size. The old
> printer is getting retired because the ink is too hard to find.
>
> Whose got a recommendation? There's a slew of brands out there. I've
> been disappointed in Lexmark and pleased with HP (D7160) myself, but
> everyone makes lemons.

Avoid inkjets and buy a used laser printer:

http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/usedlasers.pdf

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ★Free Shipping★Nike Jordan shoes paypal payment www.dotradenow.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4f9559826d2382de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 8:54 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: There is no "right" to health care
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e14cb160c2e4a0dd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:17 am
From: K

In fact, no one has a "right" to any material good or service. Someone
might choose to provide some goods and services to deadbeats, but that
doesn't imply a right to them; and the provider may subsequently decide
to stop providing them.

You have no more "right" to health care than you have to a big screen
TV, Hawaiian holidays, a car, or a lobster dinner. You don't have a
"right" to goods or services. If you want goods and services, you must
pay for them, or you must persuade someone to give them to you
voluntarily. If your powers of persuasion are weak, you'll fare poorly.

That's simply how it is, and it's good and just.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap property in WV,KY,NC,TN? want to build unrestricted
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3a7cd02ab7dfe59e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:21 am
From: Tony Sivori

sr wrote:

> Looking for a place with less snow.
> Looking at container housing
> must have unrestriced property
> anyone know of cheap property that does not flood? Sandy in Maine

Instead of building, have you considered an existing structure, priced
right? Some of the less desirable HUD repos are dirt cheap. In some cases,
where I live (Louisville KY) way under $20,000. I've seen some houses go
for less than $10,000.

The good things about HUD repos compared to bank repos are that you do not
compete with house flippers and investors. HUD gives preference to owner
occupants. Second, although there is no warranty, HUD will not
intentionally hide defects regarding the property.

http://portal.hud.gov/portal/page/portal/HUD/topics/hud_homes

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2844032eaa3120b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:27 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Generals must act…
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a872f90eda04c649?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:27 am
From: martin

On Oct 7, 5:42 pm, Cicero Venatio <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Generals swear to uphold the Constitution, not swearing allegiance
> to a President. If the Generals determine that the President is
> undermining the Constitution they have not a right but a duty to remove
> him from office. General Petraeus and Dick Cheney can get this country
> back on track. The absolute refusal, by Democrats, to jump start this
> economy with tax cuts for small business is killing the job market for
> decades to come. These tax cuts should have been enacted weeks after
> Obama's inaugural, but now we learn that the Democrats will never enact
> tax cuts due to their ideology. The Democrats plan is to slowly
> transition the middle class from an unemployment check to a welfare
> check. There is no plan for jobs, because the health care will cause a
> second wave of unemployment for those who escaped the axe in the first
> wave. And now Nancy Pelosi is talking about a VAT tax, which is a
> mammoth middle class tax, which will put the final nail in the Democrats
> failing economy.
>
> The Generals must act quickly, the longer they wait the more precarious
> the average citizen's future becomes.

Has it come to this?

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Friday, October 9, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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