Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics

Tuesday, February 23, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* berufsunfähigkeit versicherung test, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung rechner,
berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung steuerlich absetzbar, was kostet eine
berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung beamter, - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/272364445047e7d6?hl=en
* walking boots-- which are good? - 11 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52b4735386145e8e?hl=en
* ◆⊙◆ Cheap price wholesale A&F Jacket, Bape Jacket, ED Hardy Jacket ect at
www.rijing-trade.com <Paypal Payment> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fb7ffef0d0e83fcc?hl=en
* Delivered unsafe item damaged me - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3012e11d0875cc7d?hl=en
* Hello Everyone! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/51cd6aaf666ff58e?hl=en
* Cheap Wholesale A&F T-Shirt Armani T-Shirt Christina Audigier T-Shirt
Lacoste T-Shirt etc from http://www.vipchinatrade.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fcac48b7bbc00302?hl=en
* Siding vs. painting the house - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f101ad7af8a7691a?hl=en
* how much did I pay for our house? (for tax purposes) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ce1376c8da9beb50?hl=en
* Soup bouillion cubes - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b57b09cbb01b6494?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: berufsunfähigkeit versicherung test, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung
rechner, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung steuerlich absetzbar, was kostet eine
berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung beamter,
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/272364445047e7d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 22 2010 11:51 pm
From: herbert gruen

berufsunfähigkeit versicherung test, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung
rechner, berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung steuerlich absetzbar, was
kostet eine berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung,
berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung beamter,

http://verweisung.BERUFSUNFAEHIGKEITSVERSICHERUNGEN.NL
http://bu-versicherung-ohne-gesundheitsfragen.BERUFSUNFAEHIGKEITSVERSICHERUNGEN.NL
http://berufsunfaehigkeitsversicherung-student.BERUFSUNFAEHIGKEITSVERSICHERUNGEN.NL
http://berufsunfaehigkeitsversicherung-gesundheitsfragen.BERUFSUNFAEHIGKEITSVERSICHERUNGEN.NL

vergleich versicherungen berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung tarif in Husum
berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung schweiz verbraucherschutz versicherung
in Heinsberg
prozessquote bu vergleich berufsunfähigkeitsversicherungen in Konstanz
versicherer karenzzeit bu in Irland
berufsunfähigkeit vergleichen mehrere berufsunfähigkeitsversicherungen
in Northeim
nürnberger versicherung berufsunfähigkeit dbv winterthur
berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung in Tschad
privathaftpflicht versicherung berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung hausfrau
in Trinidad und Tobago
autoversicherungen rürup rente berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung in
Schweden

http://suche.aol.de/aol/search?query=beruf+versicherung+inurl%3Afor-um&invocationType=no.omittWeb&filter=false

==============================================================================
TOPIC: walking boots-- which are good?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52b4735386145e8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 1:29 am
From: Peter Clinch

Rod Speed wrote:
[wellies]
> I wouldnt, they are much too long for walking far.
>
> There is a reason the military dont use them anymore.

If a dander across the local farmlands had a significant degree of
commonality with a 30 mile forced march with a 30 kg pack then that'd be
a good point...

Gamekeepers etc. are happy to work in them, covering that sort of land
all day, every day. If they're good enough for them, they're probably
good enough for us.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 2:33 am
From: SMS

john bently wrote:
> Now i have retired I would like to start walking. Would anyone know of a
> good place to see some *critical* reviews of the different walking boots
> available please? Apparently the last consumers association review was done
> way back in april 2006.
>
> Or would anyone know of some boots (preferably not too expensive) that are
> generally believed by many people to be a good buy? Thanks for any advice.

"Not too expensive" is not too descriptive.

Look for the following features:

1. GORE-TEX® lining.

2. Vibram® outsole

3. Stitchdown construction (not just glued)

4. Full-grain, all-leather upper (not split grain, not "nubuck").

Such boots are hard to find and quite expensive, i.e. the Danner
Mountain Light™ II. On the plus side, they will last a very long time. I
had a pair for 24 years. I think that they're made in the U.S.A. too.

If you give up on stitch-down construction then the choices expand and
prices fall. I.e. Cabela's offers their IA-811047 boots for $170 which
are not stitch down. I bought similar Vasque Summit GTX boots at REI on
sale for about $150 last year (regular price is $200). Not as good as
the Danner boots, but I could not find anywhere to buy another pair of
the Danner's other than ordering them directly from Danner.

If you give up on full grain leather construction prices fall even more,
if you give up on the GoreTex lining and the Vibram soles you can soon
be down to $50 or less. You get what you pay for. But in my experience,
the cheaper boots are not worth it. They are not waterproof, the
imitation Vibram does not provide sufficient traction, the soles
delaminate after a couple of years, and non-full-grain leather quickly
becomes motted and dirty and is impossible to clean.

I would not cheap out on boots if you're going to be doing serious
walking or hiking. You just need mid-high boots unless you're doing
serious backpacking. The boots I mentioned are all mid-high.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 2:49 am
From: Christopher Loffredo

SMS wrote:

>
> Look for the following features:
>
> 1. GORE-TEX® lining.
>
> 2. Vibram® outsole
>
> 3. Stitchdown construction (not just glued)
>
> 4. Full-grain, all-leather upper (not split grain, not "nubuck").
>

Though many, including myself, dislike Gore-Tex in a boot.

It requires a different construction method, which leads to the boot not
lasting as long, can create a sweatier environment, starts leaking
fairly quickly and then does a good job of keeping the water *in*.

Unfortunately, Gore-Tex-less boots are getting harder and harder to find...

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 3:06 am
From: Peter Clinch

Christopher Loffredo wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>>
>> Look for the following features:
>>
>> 1. GORE-TEX® lining.
>>
>> 2. Vibram® outsole
>>
>> 3. Stitchdown construction (not just glued)
>>
>> 4. Full-grain, all-leather upper (not split grain, not "nubuck").
>>
>
> Though many, including myself, dislike Gore-Tex in a boot.
>
> It requires a different construction method, which leads to the boot not
> lasting as long, can create a sweatier environment, starts leaking
> fairly quickly and then does a good job of keeping the water *in*.
>
> Unfortunately, Gore-Tex-less boots are getting harder and harder to find...

I don't like them for exactly those reasons, but if folk /do/ prefer
them then note that Goretex isn't the only game in town. eVent is
another high quality breathable/waterproof, generally reckoned to be
considerably more breathable than Goretex though also one that suffers
more from contamination, and there are various others that will do a
similar job.

Another option is a waterproof sock, for example Rocky Goretex or
Sealskinz. These have the advantage over boot/shoe linings that you
only use them when you need them, so a hike on a hot day doesn't require
your feet to sweat freely in their own personal high-tech plastic bags.
OTOH a boot liner is better if the basic problem is cold as when a
waterproof sock outer is saturated it will still conduct heat readily
from your foot, even though it keeps it dry.

Aside from cold, another reason to keep feet dry is mainly down to damp
skin is softened and more prone to blisters, but in light footwear that
allows your foot to move naturally this is much less of an issue than in
a stiff boot, as the upper moves /with/ your foot rather than rubbing
against it. Note how orienteers gallumph around with soaking feet and
don't feel any particular need for waterproofing most of the time.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 7:40 am
From: SMS

Christopher Loffredo wrote:

> Though many, including myself, dislike Gore-Tex in a boot.

That's the first time I've _ever_ heard of _anyone_ disliking GoreTex in
a boot.

> It requires a different construction method, which leads to the boot not
> lasting as long, can create a sweatier environment, starts leaking
> fairly quickly and then does a good job of keeping the water *in*.
>
> Unfortunately, Gore-Tex-less boots are getting harder and harder to find...

For good reason. The GoreTex membrane allows the boot to breathe while
remaining waterproof. The membrane is safely sandwiched inside,
protecting it, so it doesn't get clogged with dirt or oil.

The GoreTex lasts the life of the boot. My last pair of boots with a
GoreTex liner lasted for 25 years without leaking or failing to breathe.

You'll only find a lack of a GoreTex membrane on very low end boots,
which have other limitations as well, such as sub-standard sole, or
cheaper, non-full grain leather.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 8:03 am
From: Andy Leighton

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:40:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Christopher Loffredo wrote:
>
>> Though many, including myself, dislike Gore-Tex in a boot.
>
> That's the first time I've _ever_ heard of _anyone_ disliking GoreTex in
> a boot.

I prefer a plain leather boot without goretex lining.

> You'll only find a lack of a GoreTex membrane on very low end boots,
> which have other limitations as well, such as sub-standard sole, or
> cheaper, non-full grain leather.

That is complete rubbish. My Zamberlans (don't know the model) don't have
goretex and they were definately not a low-end boot.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 8:11 am
From: Vic Smith

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:03:56 -0600, Andy Leighton
<andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:40:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Christopher Loffredo wrote:
>>
>>> Though many, including myself, dislike Gore-Tex in a boot.
>>
>> That's the first time I've _ever_ heard of _anyone_ disliking GoreTex in
>> a boot.
>
>I prefer a plain leather boot without goretex lining.
>
>> You'll only find a lack of a GoreTex membrane on very low end boots,
>> which have other limitations as well, such as sub-standard sole, or
>> cheaper, non-full grain leather.
>
>That is complete rubbish. My Zamberlans (don't know the model) don't have
>goretex and they were definately not a low-end boot.

Sometimes a poster doesn't look at the big picture before posting.
Simple provincialism really, and I won't hold it against him.

--Vic

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 9:03 am
From: Christopher Loffredo

SMS wrote:

> The GoreTex lasts the life of the boot. My last pair of boots with a
> GoreTex liner lasted for 25 years without leaking or failing to breathe.

And you actually used them sometimes? ;-)

> You'll only find a lack of a GoreTex membrane on very low end boots,
> which have other limitations as well, such as sub-standard sole, or
> cheaper, non-full grain leather.

My non-Gore-Tex boots are certainly neither cheap nor low-end. In fact,
full-leather non-Gore-Text boots usually cost as much or more than the
ones with.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 9:59 am
From: Michael Black

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, SMS wrote:

> Christopher Loffredo wrote:
>
>> Though many, including myself, dislike Gore-Tex in a boot.
>
> That's the first time I've _ever_ heard of _anyone_ disliking GoreTex in a
> boot.
>
>> It requires a different construction method, which leads to the boot not
>> lasting as long, can create a sweatier environment, starts leaking fairly
>> quickly and then does a good job of keeping the water *in*.
>>
>> Unfortunately, Gore-Tex-less boots are getting harder and harder to find...
>
> For good reason. The GoreTex membrane allows the boot to breathe while
> remaining waterproof. The membrane is safely sandwiched inside, protecting
> it, so it doesn't get clogged with dirt or oil.
>
> The GoreTex lasts the life of the boot. My last pair of boots with a GoreTex
> liner lasted for 25 years without leaking or failing to breathe.
>
Gore-Tex isn't magic. It's a very thin layer that almost looks like
plastic. If it isn't protected properly, it will no longer work. I had a
Gore-Tex jacket that wore out about 8 years after I bought it, the
non-Gore-Tex wore out which then left the Goretex layer vulnerable. Since
it has no strength in itself, there went the waterproof

So either the boot has to be made really well to protect that Gore-Tex, or
you won't get any long life out of it. A pair of boots that lasts 25 years
is either seeing very little use, or were very expensive in the first
place. They stood up because of the rest of the boot, not the Gore-Tex.

I have doubts about its value in boots. On a jacket or pants, it makes
sense, since you are merely warding off rain, and the rest of the jacket
is well designed to be resistant to rain in the first place.

Boots, they get immersed in snow or water. How well does the rest of the
boot hold up? Gore-Tex isn't just about that thin layer, if it's not
put in properly (what about that stiching over there?) it won't mean a
thing.

If the boot soaks up water, you really aren't at an advantage
over no-Gore-Tex. I have my doubts about it keeping the water out when
immersed in water, but then other factors come into play. If you're
walking through snow or water, chances are good you'll hit spots where
the rain or water is higher than the boot, and your feet get wet that way
anyway.

The conditions where I'd worry about getting my feet wet, I'd want
something different in the way of a shoe or boot. Something with rubber
around the lower level, which then gets connected to leather upper
(though, I've not had a lot of success with those, the first time I bought
a pair of winter boots like that, they held for about seven years before
the rubber broke, but more recent purchases have had the rubber breaking
before a year is up). Otherwise, you live with the occasional wet foot,
I don't find my feet get wet due to rain, they get wet due to puddles.

When I walked to New York City in 1982, someone had "rubbers" or
"galoshes", thin rubber overshoes that went over shoes, he actually wore
them over light hiking shoes. I have no idea how comfortable it was, but
seemed a reasonable method for those times when it was quite wet.

I wouldn't pay extra money for Gore-Tex in shoes, I don't see the point.

Michael

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 10:04 am
From: Phil Cook

SMS wrote:

>Christopher Loffredo wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, Gore-Tex-less boots are getting harder and harder to find...
>
>For good reason. The GoreTex membrane allows the boot to breathe while
>remaining waterproof. The membrane is safely sandwiched inside,
>protecting it, so it doesn't get clogged with dirt or oil.
>
>The GoreTex lasts the life of the boot. My last pair of boots with a
>GoreTex liner lasted for 25 years without leaking or failing to breathe.

You were lucky or careful. And I doubt that those boots were in
frequent use if you managed to get them to last so long.

Toenails and grit can quite easily make holes in boot linings.
>
>You'll only find a lack of a GoreTex membrane on very low end boots,
>which have other limitations as well, such as sub-standard sole, or
>cheaper, non-full grain leather.

As others have said this is a falacy.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Am Bodach in the Mamores on a sunny day :-)
pictures at http://www.therewaslight.co.uk soonish...

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 10:38 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Peter Clinch wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

> [wellies]

>> I wouldnt, they are much too long for walking far.

>> There is a reason the military dont use them anymore.

> If a dander across the local farmlands had a significant
> degree of commonality with a 30 mile forced march
> with a 30 kg pack then that'd be a good point...

They dont just use other than wellies for 30mile forced marches with a 30Kg pack.

> Gamekeepers etc. are happy to work in them, covering that sort of land all day, every day.

Most of them dont in fact use wellies.

> If they're good enough for them, they're probably good enough for us.

Wrong again. They wear them every day all day, we dont.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ◆⊙◆ Cheap price wholesale A&F Jacket, Bape Jacket, ED Hardy Jacket ect
at www.rijing-trade.com <Paypal Payment>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fb7ffef0d0e83fcc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 1:46 am
From: "www.fjrjtrade.com"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Delivered unsafe item damaged me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3012e11d0875cc7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 4:22 am
From: "michael adams"

"Toom Tabard" <toom@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76-8dac-7adf26c628ce@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

> Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,

Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
or similar professional.

An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.

The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.

Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
be an entirely different thing.

michael adams

...

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 5:19 am
From: Vic Smith

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:22:36 -0000, "michael adams"
<mjadams25@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

>
>"Toom Tabard" <toom@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76-8dac-7adf26c628ce@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>
>Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
>handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
>or similar professional.
>
>An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
>But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>
Perhaps, perhaps not. But if cutting edges were commonly on a
product, he would no doubt recommend against using it.

>The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
>case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
>fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>
>Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
>be an entirely different thing.
>

Those who have never worked in manufacturing seem to think that
cutting edges and burrs are normal if hidden from the consumer.
They are not, and are routinely removed as part of the manufacturing
process,
Not just for the consumer or tradesman, but for the workers in the
plant who perform other processes on the piece after stamping/cutting.
Beyond injury, deburring and removing cutting edges is cheaper than
replacing sliced gloves.
Most likely the edges that injured the OP was an oversight and a
one-off. If not, it's a crappy product and most likely deficient in
other ways too.

--Vic

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 6:09 am
From: DerbyDad03

On Feb 23, 7:22 am, "michael adams" <mjadam...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> "Toom Tabard" <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76-8dac-7adf26c628ce@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>
> Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
> handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
> or similar professional.
>
> An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
> But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>
> The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
> case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
> fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>
> Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
> be an entirely different thing.
>
> michael adams
>
> ...

re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
his hand."

What?

You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do you?

I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
I've "fitted" into my house.

After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".

I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm only
responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 6:40 am
From: Harry K

On Feb 21, 9:33 am, Toom Tabard <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21 Feb, 17:26, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
> > In article <8b89a318-0818-4064-985e-06e301e04...@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Toom Tabard <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >The supplier (UK national store) is responsible.
>
> > Horseshit. The OP is solely responsible. It's not exactly an arcane secret
> > that objects made of sheet metal sometimes have sharp edges. Only a fool would
> > uncrate something by wrapping his fingers around an edge that he couldn't see,
> > and several others have already described how he *should* have uncrated it.
>
> Total nonsesnse in terms of the law of negligence and legal liability.
> There would have to be clear warning of the hazard of unpacking.
>
> Toom

Yes, one can always find a sleaze ball lawyer to sue over something
that is the complainers fault.

Harry K

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 8:58 am
From: "michael adams"

"DerbyDad03" <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in message
news:626fc5ae-49be-43b9-9b3c-cbbf04e39566@n5g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 23, 7:22 am, "michael adams" <mjadam...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> "Toom Tabard" <t...@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76-8dac-7adf26c628ce@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>
> Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
> handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
> or similar professional.
>
> An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
> But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>
> The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
> case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
> fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>
> Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
> be an entirely different thing.
>
> michael adams
>
> ...

> re: Either he's a consumer in which case he gives the job to someone
> who can handle it, or he's a fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut
> his hand."

> What?

...

In the UK at least a "fitter" is a name given to professional installers
of all sorts of things. Kitchen fitter, motor fitter, electrical fitter
etc etc.

Not just simply to someone who "fits" things.

A professional fitter might reasonably be expected to have the experience to
forstall such problems.

The packaging being complained of is intended for opening by professional
tradesmen. Not unskilled amateurs.

"Unskilled" if only in the sense that when they cut their little "handies" as
a result of not using a box-cutter, the correct tool for the job, they then
start to blub like little children. And start demanding that the "naughty man"
should be made to pay money to Charity "cos they hurted demselves"

Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen !

HTH

michael adams

posting on uk.people.consumers

....

> You don't truly believe that a "consumer" can't be a "fitter" do you?

> I guess I shouldn't have put in my own windows or doors or bath
> fixtures or water heater or stove or deck or any of the other things
> I've "fitted" into my house.

> After all, I'm just a consumer and "can't handle it".

> I'm not defending the OP...I'm not even talking about the OP. I'm only
> responding to your claim that a consumer can't also be the fitter.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 10:33 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:22:36 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjadams25@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Toom Tabard" <toom@tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:6bda30bf-3abb-4c76-8dac-7adf26c628ce@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Total nonsense - in an item supplied to a consumer,
>>
>> Regardless of who its supplied to, consumers don't ever get to
>> handle gas hobs because. they normally give the job to a fitter
>> or similar professional.
>>
>> An experienced fitter wouldn't have cut his hand in this way.
>> But then an experienced fitter would have cost money.
>>
> Perhaps, perhaps not. But if cutting edges were commonly on a
> product, he would no doubt recommend against using it.
>
>> The OP can't have it both ways. Either he's a consumer in which
>> case he gives the job to someone who can handle it, or he's a
>> fitter in which case he wouldn't have cut his hand.
>>
>> Had this been a saucepan being talked about then that would
>> be an entirely different thing.
>>
>
> Those who have never worked in manufacturing seem to think that
> cutting edges and burrs are normal if hidden from the consumer.
> They are not, and are routinely removed as part of the manufacturing
> process,
> Not just for the consumer or tradesman, but for the workers in the
> plant who perform other processes on the piece after stamping/cutting.
> Beyond injury, deburring and removing cutting edges is cheaper than
> replacing sliced gloves.

> Most likely the edges that injured the OP was an oversight and a one-off.

Fantasy. They have been seen in the cheapest PC cases for decades.

> If not, it's a crappy product and most likely deficient in other ways too.

Yes, one with filed edges would certainly be a higher quality product,
but that does not mean that one without them wont work fine.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hello Everyone!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/51cd6aaf666ff58e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 5:00 am
From: Al

MadMike wrote:
> Just joined this group and thought I should introduce myself. I am
> married to a wonderful lady, and have 4 boys ranging from age 28 to
> 10! I NEED to become the poster-child for frugal living!

Well, at least you need to get that 28 year old a paper route.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Wholesale A&F T-Shirt Armani T-Shirt Christina Audigier T-Shirt
Lacoste T-Shirt etc from http://www.vipchinatrade.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fcac48b7bbc00302?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 8:13 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Siding vs. painting the house
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f101ad7af8a7691a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 6:15 am
From: Larry Caldwell

In article <c6975901-ae80-451f-8010-
01097d2efe1a@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, artsy6@gmail.com (aesthete8)
says...
> Over the long term, isn't siding a better investment?
>
> Won't it eliminate the need to paint the house forever?

Properly installed light colored vinyl will last a long time, but not
forever. I installed white premium vinyl on my parents' house in 1983.
They are now in their 90s, and haven't had to worry about painting the
house. I pressure wash it for them once every 2 or 3 years to get the
dust and mildew off of it. There are some water stains near the flower
beds, but mostly behind plants where you can't see it.

Other than new flooring in the kitchen and refinishing the kitchen
cabinets, the interior of the house has not been updated in 30 years.
It's comfortable for an elderly couple and looks good from the street.
It will last them as long as they need it. Any changes can wait for the
next owner. I expect the vinyl to eventually get brittle and start to
break.

White vinyl is much more sun resistant than darker vinyl. I have seen
chocolate brown vinyl go to pot in 5 years. It just gets too hot in
direct sun. Colored vinyls can also turn chalky.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 9:49 am
From: Kalmia

On Feb 21, 6:44 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Over the long term, isn't siding a better investment?
>
> Won't it eliminate the need to paint the house forever?

How long do you plan to live in that house? When was it last
painted? I need more facts before making a decision. What prices are
you talking about?

That asked, I have never met anyone who was sorry he sided instead of
painted.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how much did I pay for our house? (for tax purposes)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ce1376c8da9beb50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 11:32 am
From: Ohioguy

We just bought a HUD owned home at auction. There are many different
numbers on the papers I look at in the paperwork, but I'm not sure which
to use for tax purposes.

For example, the total "bid" we made was $60k, but the papers show
that of that HUD paid $2k themselves in "closing costs", and another
roughly $4k went to the real estate agent as a commission. So that
means that the seller of the home got only about $54k from us.

Even if you include the commission to the realtor, we really only
paid $58k, since HUD paid $2k.

Not sure if I have to include the commission paid to the realtor
and/or the $2k in closing costs that HUD paid itself. Would like to put
a number down less than the full $60k, but not sure if I can. The FHA
guy at closing said that we could use $54k for tax purposes, since that
is what we actually paid HUD for the property, but I'm wondering if the
local city tax folks would really allow that. Our closing papers show
$60k as what we offered, and make no mention of the $2k HUD paid in
closing. The $4k commission is only mentioned on other papers.

Thanks!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Soup bouillion cubes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b57b09cbb01b6494?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 23 2010 1:17 pm
From: aesthete8

On Feb 21, 6:05 pm, John...@BadISP.org wrote:
> SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >aesthete8wrote:
> >> Any recommendations?
>
> >Try "Better than Bouillon."
>
> >"http://www.superiortouch.com/retail/products/better-than-bouillon"
>
> >We get their organic product at Costco in 16 ounce jars. I don't
> >remember the price, I think it's around $10 though.
>
> Only if you like sweet soup. Of course if you're making a soup or dish
> that's supposed to be sweet go right ahead. Americans generally ruin a
> whole lot of products with their penchant for sweetness (boosts the
> food industry profits).
>
> Examples: bread, ham, soups, and worst of all, Heinz Baked Beans.
> Actually any baked beans. Try the UK, Canadian, or Australian
> versions, most often by the same manufacturer.
>
> Of course Americans are so used to the inappropriate use of sweeteners
> they actually like these adulterated products. I remember one episode
> of America's Test Kitchen where the dish called for bread. The head
> honcho made a big effort to get non-sweet bread but his assistants
> (women of a certain age) actually said they preferred Wonder bread. I
> suppose it depends on what you had as a child.

Interesting observation about sweetness.

For a couple of years, I didn't eat ice cream because it was really
expensive where I lived.

Then when I moved, ice cream was cheaper so I began eating it.

At first, I was surprised by how sweet it was.

But I must have gotten used to it after awhile because I began putting
more sugar into my coffee.

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