Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 8 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Watching The NFL Can Be Really Disgusting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04744c1b61cd4c14?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 23 2008 11:32 pm
From: Michael Alden

I used to be a big football fan. Now, I'll watch only if the Raiders
are on, which in NY is rarely. Even then, I'll either record it on my
DVD hard drive or else watch it while doing something else. What no
one has even mentioned is that there are about 2/3 of the amount of
plays in a game now compared to the 70s. They had to take something
out to make room for all the ads and actual football had to go. I
don't feel I'm missing much as most games now resemble battles between
the Bloods and the Crips anyway.

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TOPIC: FREE online video chat and free MOVIES
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f15e188631823461?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:15 am
From: refbum

This site has free video chat:

http://www.filmon.com/chat.html

They also have free full length movies to watch. Just click on the
"free" area and see what you can watch on your computer. Vincent
Price in "The Last Man on Earth" ! also, "Night of the Living Dead".

If you like chat, click on the link above. Once there, you are
assigned a "guest number". Click on that icon at the top of the
screen and you can change your nickname.

You can register for free and chat, watch movies, play games or upload
your own content in the "user generated area".

Nothing is more frugal than "free". This site is 100% legitimate and
the movies are full length.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: City reappraised our house up 31% !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8459c124a40d2583?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 6:50 am
From: OhioGuy

Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
purposes!

The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.

The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.

I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
only save $100 a year.

Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
reappraisal value down somewhat?

Thanks!

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:38 am
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:50:14 -0400, OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
>at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
>telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
>purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
>appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
>some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
>a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
>there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
>all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
>on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
>message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
>or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
>making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
>message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
>send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
>we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
>only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
>appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
>times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
>you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
>reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
In my area (Cook County, IL) I hire the same tax protest lawyer every
three year assessment.
He charges $50 and half the first years savings.
Seems to work well, and no hassle for me.

--Vic

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:46 am
From: Zuke

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, OhioGuy wrote:

> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers at
> half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters telling
> us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax purposes!

This is a sweet way for municipalities to raise taxes without
anybody having to vote on it. Now that values have dropped I wonder
how quick they are going to be to reappraise. How many of us,
today, would sell our house for the appraised value? In the old
days appraisals seem to be about half of what the selling value was
but that has changed, at least in our area, over the past 20 years.

Why deal with the company? Deal with the tax commissioner. Why does
it matter to you that he farmed it out. He's the one with the civic
duty. Call his office directly and put the screws to him.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 8:38 am
From: George

OhioGuy wrote:
> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
> at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
> telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
> purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
> a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
> there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
> all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
> on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
> message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
> or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
> making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
> message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and send
> a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what we
> pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we only
> save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
> appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
> times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
> you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
> reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> Thanks!

Same process where I live. They outsourced it to Century 21. They
decided all of the values based on 1/1/08. Our taxes will go up over 45%
starting 1/1/2009. They pretty much told you what you need to do. You
need to schedule the informal hearing and offer some clear defense with
a sound basis (gross computational error etc) or hire a licensed
appraiser. If you can't offer some argument then you will pay.

The only real thing to do is what everyone talks about but does nothing
about and throw *all* of the current politicians under the bus, have
strict term limits and demand accountability.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:00 am
From: clams_casino

OhioGuy wrote:

Ours were appraised at the 2006 peak. Sales have typically been 10-15%
below those appraisals. It'll be intereesting to see if they drop our
appraisals 15% next year and increase the tax rate accordingly (ours are
statistically reevaluated each three years with an in-person appraisal
each ten years..

>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.

Typically, they do not discuss such over the phone. More typically,
you'll likely need to set up an appointment and provided some kind of
proof. In my case, they over estimated the square footage of our home
by 15% due to miscategorizing the style in our last two tax appraisals.
They corrected the square footage after sending someone out the first
time, but adjusted in on the spot the second time, as they recalled the
situation from three years prior.

>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck
> of a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday,
> and there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told
> me that all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always
> got hung up on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able
> to leave a message. However, I am not at all confident that they will
> call back, or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems
> like they are making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or
> even to leave a message, so that they can just say it is past the 20
> days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
> send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be
> what we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even
> if we only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they
> have appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised
> several times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end?
> What would you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they
> lower their reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> Thanks!

I've heard of cases where the value was adjusted down if the home
recently sold at a lower price, but only to see an inflated value during
the next evaluation. The response is typically that the appraisal is
for relative tax value only and is not intended to be a selling price.
Unless you can find errors in the appraisal (square footage, etc), it
will be an uphill battle. Having several professional appraisals may
help, but at $150 each, it's a gamble if they will be of any value.

I'm sure this is / will be a growing problem / aggravation all over the
country.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:02 am
From: tmclone@searchmachine.com

On Sep 24, 9:50 am, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
> at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
> telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
> purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
> a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
> there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
> all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
> on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
> message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
> or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
> making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
> message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
> send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
> we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
> only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
> appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
> times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
> you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
> reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
>

Same thing happened to a friend of mine a few years ago. He
immediately put a "for sale" sign in front of his house and advertised
it all over the place. He used the new appraisal figure as the asking
price ($275k). He kept it listed for three months, and the highest
offer he received was $180k. He took the house off the market and put
in his appraisal grievance paperwork on the last day to file, and was
able to get the new appraisal down to $180k. The town grumbled, but
hey, a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This
technique certainly isn't for everyone, but my friend would have been
quite happy to sell the house if he'd been offered $275k, or even
close.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 10:13 am
From: phil scott

On Sep 24, 6:50 am, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
> at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
> telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
> purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
> a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
> there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
> all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
> on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
> message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
> or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
> making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
> message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
> send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
> we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
> only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
> appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
> times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
> you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
> reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> Thanks!

thats because the cities are going bankrupt and ppty tax is the
primary source of revenue in
the face of declining sales tax..

did you know that police and firement costs are oten 80%of a cities
budget? and that half of
that is pensions.... In calif those pensions run 120,000 dolars a year
or more a fter tricks are
used to spike them, since 2000.... not prior... (tax payers retrre at
a 5th of that).

Phil scott

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 12:02 pm
From: James

On Sep 24, 12:02 pm, tmcl...@searchmachine.com wrote:
> On Sep 24, 9:50 am, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
> > at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
> > telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
> > purposes!
>
> > The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> > appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> > some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> > The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
> > a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
> > there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
> > all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
> > on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
> > message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
> > or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
> > making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
> > message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> > I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
> > send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
> > we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
> > only save $100 a year.
>
> > Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
> > appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
> > times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
> > you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
> > reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> >
>
> Same thing happened to a friend of mine a few years ago. He
> immediately put a "for sale" sign in front of his house and advertised
> it all over the place. He used the new appraisal figure as the asking
> price ($275k). He kept it listed for three months, and the highest
> offer he received was $180k. He took the house off the market and put
> in his appraisal grievance paperwork on the last day to file, and was
> able to get the new appraisal down to $180k. The town grumbled, but
> hey, a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This
> technique certainly isn't for everyone, but my friend would have been
> quite happy to sell the house if he'd been offered $275k, or even
> close.

One of my work friends owns a very very nice house, but not a mansion,
in an area full of manions and celebraties. He goes through this every
couple of years. He always hires a professional to fight it and has
never lost. His savings are very large - his house is usually
overvalued by 300,000$ or more.

James

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - fees go up to 19% of listing price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/31e9404b0a6e5dfd?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:47 am
From: Al Bundy

OhioGuy wrote:
> I just noticed a major hike in the fees to list items on Ebay. I had
> listed a few DVD's over the past month, and noticed the fees jumped.
>
> Including listing and final value, plus Paypal, to list a fixed price "buy
> it now" listing costs 19% of the price you hopefully sell at - just barely
> shy of 1/5.
>
> Man, I remember back when it was called Auctionweb, and it only cost a 10c
> listing fee to sell things on there.

I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
$1 at White Castle.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 10:42 am
From: OhioGuy

> I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
> $1 at White Castle.

How old are you, Al?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions on dentist conduct
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a04b6ef8411a621?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 8:50 am
From: muzician21@yahoo.com

I've been seeing a dentist - call him Dr. X - for about 3 years after
bad experiences with two prior DMO dentists. Dr. X is not a DMO
participant. I'd gotten a filling from him a number of years ago and
felt he was good and decided I'd be better off paying full freight for
a competent dentist than getting a DMO discount but getting shoddy
care, along with getting hit with a sales pitch for teeth whitening/
rotary toothbrushes/etc. every time I'd go in to these DMO dentists.

Right off the bat I ended up getting a root canal and crown from Dr. X
on a tooth that had decay despite seeing the previous (DMO) dentist
every 3 months due to supposed periodontal disease. I wasn't about to
give the business to the DMO guy, so made the transition before
getting the work done. Actually, it was originally supposed to just be
a crown, but when Dr. X got in there he asked if I'd had pain in the
tooth, which I hadn't, the reason being was he said decay had intruded
on the nerve. About $1400.

I've been seeing him for about 3 years or so, gotten a filling, twice
yearly exams and prophylaxis, and now just got another crown due to
decay around a filling another DMO dentist had done a number of years
ago, which leads to the problem I'm having.

I went for the second visit to get the permanent crown put in, during
which the Dr. was in the room for maybe a couple of minutes to have
the hygienist hand him the adjusted crown with bonding material
applied, he shoved it in, had me bite down on a cotton tube said to
hold it for a couple of minutes with a timer running, and he exited.
The hygienist cleaned off excess material and we were done.

At this point while still in the exam room I said I wanted to ask the
Dr. a question. I didn't realize he was going to duck out as quick as
he did. I was informed that the Dr. was busy in his office, but maybe
she could answer the question. This perturbed me somewhat. I wanted to
ask him about whether he thought I'd gain anything by replacing an
amalgam filling with a composite filling, since I didn't want to
repeat the crown experience. Since it was a specific technical
question I preferred to hear from the Dr. personally not his
assistant, who kept giving me answers that didn't reflect what I was
asking. "Yes, well we can set up an appointment to do this if you
want" I'm sure you *can* do it, what I want to know is if it would
help prevent decay around the filling.

He had just been in the room 3 minutes ago, he wasn't with a patient,
clearly he was going to see other patients who were there, it didn't
seem unreasonable to me that he could spend 2 - 3 minutes to
personally answer a question. I even clarified whether he was still in
the building. I asked her to go to his office and advise him I'd like
him to answer a question.

When she came back I got more deflecting responses. She didn't say
"he'll be out in a few minutes" (maybe he's in the John or whatever -
fine, I'd be willing to wait) the response was basically he wouldn't
be able to address my question.

Now I'm getting pissed. I've contributed probably $3000 over the last
several years to this mofo's vacation/retirement fund - about $1400
for a crown/ root canal - the need for the RC I'm of course going
solely on his word was needed, about $1000 for this crown - up about
$250 from the last one about 2 years ago, and numerous exams in
between and he's not available to answer a question when he's 100 feet
away in his office. WTF? He seemed okay when I first started going to
him - which is one of the reasons I've been going but it seems the
more money I spend the less cordial he gets. This was all paid up
front, not any payment plan.

I was now in the lobby area about to leave, I'm sure it was obvious I
was po'd - I wasn't yelling and swearing but did comment that I had
just spent a fairly large sum of money and was incredulous that he
"didn't have time" to answer a question. Shortly thereafter he walked
by on the other side of the counter from his office down the hall to
see a patient on the other end of the building. I asked that same
hygienist one more time if he could answer my question. Nope.

Basically as an afterthought one of the girls at the front desk said
she could take my number to have the Dr. call me. I gave her my number
(the one they have on file) and left.

He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
I've got your money fuck you" attitude?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:09 am
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

muzician21@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been seeing a dentist - call him Dr. X - for about 3 years after
> bad experiences with two prior DMO dentists. Dr. X is not a DMO
> participant. I'd gotten a filling from him a number of years ago and
> felt he was good and decided I'd be better off paying full freight for
> a competent dentist than getting a DMO discount but getting shoddy
> care, along with getting hit with a sales pitch for teeth whitening/
> rotary toothbrushes/etc. every time I'd go in to these DMO dentists.
>
> Right off the bat I ended up getting a root canal and crown from Dr. X
> on a tooth that had decay despite seeing the previous (DMO) dentist
> every 3 months due to supposed periodontal disease. I wasn't about to
> give the business to the DMO guy, so made the transition before
> getting the work done. Actually, it was originally supposed to just be
> a crown, but when Dr. X got in there he asked if I'd had pain in the
> tooth, which I hadn't, the reason being was he said decay had intruded
> on the nerve. About $1400.
>
> I've been seeing him for about 3 years or so, gotten a filling, twice
> yearly exams and prophylaxis, and now just got another crown due to
> decay around a filling another DMO dentist had done a number of years
> ago, which leads to the problem I'm having.
>
> I went for the second visit to get the permanent crown put in, during
> which the Dr. was in the room for maybe a couple of minutes to have
> the hygienist hand him the adjusted crown with bonding material
> applied, he shoved it in, had me bite down on a cotton tube said to
> hold it for a couple of minutes with a timer running, and he exited.
> The hygienist cleaned off excess material and we were done.
>
> At this point while still in the exam room I said I wanted to ask the
> Dr. a question. I didn't realize he was going to duck out as quick as
> he did. I was informed that the Dr. was busy in his office, but maybe
> she could answer the question. This perturbed me somewhat. I wanted to
> ask him about whether he thought I'd gain anything by replacing an
> amalgam filling with a composite filling, since I didn't want to
> repeat the crown experience. Since it was a specific technical
> question I preferred to hear from the Dr. personally not his
> assistant, who kept giving me answers that didn't reflect what I was
> asking. "Yes, well we can set up an appointment to do this if you
> want" I'm sure you *can* do it, what I want to know is if it would
> help prevent decay around the filling.
>
> He had just been in the room 3 minutes ago, he wasn't with a patient,
> clearly he was going to see other patients who were there, it didn't
> seem unreasonable to me that he could spend 2 - 3 minutes to
> personally answer a question. I even clarified whether he was still in
> the building. I asked her to go to his office and advise him I'd like
> him to answer a question.
>
> When she came back I got more deflecting responses. She didn't say
> "he'll be out in a few minutes" (maybe he's in the John or whatever -
> fine, I'd be willing to wait) the response was basically he wouldn't
> be able to address my question.
>
> Now I'm getting pissed. I've contributed probably $3000 over the last
> several years to this mofo's vacation/retirement fund - about $1400
> for a crown/ root canal - the need for the RC I'm of course going
> solely on his word was needed, about $1000 for this crown - up about
> $250 from the last one about 2 years ago, and numerous exams in
> between and he's not available to answer a question when he's 100 feet
> away in his office. WTF? He seemed okay when I first started going to
> him - which is one of the reasons I've been going but it seems the
> more money I spend the less cordial he gets. This was all paid up
> front, not any payment plan.
>
> I was now in the lobby area about to leave, I'm sure it was obvious I
> was po'd - I wasn't yelling and swearing but did comment that I had
> just spent a fairly large sum of money and was incredulous that he
> "didn't have time" to answer a question. Shortly thereafter he walked
> by on the other side of the counter from his office down the hall to
> see a patient on the other end of the building. I asked that same
> hygienist one more time if he could answer my question. Nope.
>
> Basically as an afterthought one of the girls at the front desk said
> she could take my number to have the Dr. call me. I gave her my number
> (the one they have on file) and left.
>
> He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
> sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
> I've got your money fuck you" attitude?

No, they don't. I generally try to answer patients' questions while
they're there.
But there may have been an important call (maybe a nature call!) and
sometimes you're just behind.
The important thing is that he did return your call. Of course since
it's about the relative merits of a particular tooth, he may have to get
you back in to look--or could he answer your question over the phone?
Bottom line--if this dentist seemed OK in the past, I'd probably give
this one transgression a pass--but if he seems habitually rushed or
unavailable in the future, you either need a really good explanation, or
a new dentist.

JMO,
Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:14 am
From: "Amatus Cremona"

Maybe he had beans and chili for lunch and could not get off the "throne"
and his staff was too embarrassed to tell you.

Give the person a 2nd chance. He did call you back and respond to your
concern didn't he?

Do you never return to a restaurant that you have had great meals at, if one
time, you get cold soup?

--
/

Amatus

/
<muzician21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7a84bbd7-ed39-4272-bcc5-f5cddee8ca40@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I've been seeing a dentist - call him Dr. X - for about 3 years after
> bad experiences with two prior DMO dentists. Dr. X is not a DMO
> participant. I'd gotten a filling from him a number of years ago and
> felt he was good and decided I'd be better off paying full freight for
> a competent dentist than getting a DMO discount but getting shoddy
> care, along with getting hit with a sales pitch for teeth whitening/
> rotary toothbrushes/etc. every time I'd go in to these DMO dentists.
>
> Right off the bat I ended up getting a root canal and crown from Dr. X
> on a tooth that had decay despite seeing the previous (DMO) dentist
> every 3 months due to supposed periodontal disease. I wasn't about to
> give the business to the DMO guy, so made the transition before
> getting the work done. Actually, it was originally supposed to just be
> a crown, but when Dr. X got in there he asked if I'd had pain in the
> tooth, which I hadn't, the reason being was he said decay had intruded
> on the nerve. About $1400.
>
> I've been seeing him for about 3 years or so, gotten a filling, twice
> yearly exams and prophylaxis, and now just got another crown due to
> decay around a filling another DMO dentist had done a number of years
> ago, which leads to the problem I'm having.
>
> I went for the second visit to get the permanent crown put in, during
> which the Dr. was in the room for maybe a couple of minutes to have
> the hygienist hand him the adjusted crown with bonding material
> applied, he shoved it in, had me bite down on a cotton tube said to
> hold it for a couple of minutes with a timer running, and he exited.
> The hygienist cleaned off excess material and we were done.
>
> At this point while still in the exam room I said I wanted to ask the
> Dr. a question. I didn't realize he was going to duck out as quick as
> he did. I was informed that the Dr. was busy in his office, but maybe
> she could answer the question. This perturbed me somewhat. I wanted to
> ask him about whether he thought I'd gain anything by replacing an
> amalgam filling with a composite filling, since I didn't want to
> repeat the crown experience. Since it was a specific technical
> question I preferred to hear from the Dr. personally not his
> assistant, who kept giving me answers that didn't reflect what I was
> asking. "Yes, well we can set up an appointment to do this if you
> want" I'm sure you *can* do it, what I want to know is if it would
> help prevent decay around the filling.
>
> He had just been in the room 3 minutes ago, he wasn't with a patient,
> clearly he was going to see other patients who were there, it didn't
> seem unreasonable to me that he could spend 2 - 3 minutes to
> personally answer a question. I even clarified whether he was still in
> the building. I asked her to go to his office and advise him I'd like
> him to answer a question.
>
> When she came back I got more deflecting responses. She didn't say
> "he'll be out in a few minutes" (maybe he's in the John or whatever -
> fine, I'd be willing to wait) the response was basically he wouldn't
> be able to address my question.
>
> Now I'm getting pissed. I've contributed probably $3000 over the last
> several years to this mofo's vacation/retirement fund - about $1400
> for a crown/ root canal - the need for the RC I'm of course going
> solely on his word was needed, about $1000 for this crown - up about
> $250 from the last one about 2 years ago, and numerous exams in
> between and he's not available to answer a question when he's 100 feet
> away in his office. WTF? He seemed okay when I first started going to
> him - which is one of the reasons I've been going but it seems the
> more money I spend the less cordial he gets. This was all paid up
> front, not any payment plan.
>
> I was now in the lobby area about to leave, I'm sure it was obvious I
> was po'd - I wasn't yelling and swearing but did comment that I had
> just spent a fairly large sum of money and was incredulous that he
> "didn't have time" to answer a question. Shortly thereafter he walked
> by on the other side of the counter from his office down the hall to
> see a patient on the other end of the building. I asked that same
> hygienist one more time if he could answer my question. Nope.
>
> Basically as an afterthought one of the girls at the front desk said
> she could take my number to have the Dr. call me. I gave her my number
> (the one they have on file) and left.
>
> He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
> sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
> I've got your money fuck you" attitude?

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 11:13 am
From: "John Weiss"

<muzician21@yahoo.com> wrote...
>
> He had just been in the room 3 minutes ago, he wasn't with a patient,
> clearly he was going to see other patients who were there, it didn't
> seem unreasonable to me that he could spend 2 - 3 minutes to
> personally answer a question. I even clarified whether he was still in
> the building. I asked her to go to his office and advise him I'd like
> him to answer a question.
>
> When she came back I got more deflecting responses. She didn't say
> "he'll be out in a few minutes" (maybe he's in the John or whatever -
> fine, I'd be willing to wait) the response was basically he wouldn't
> be able to address my question.

I never had a dentist like that. Time to find another one.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 12:03 pm
From: "Amatus Cremona"

By any chance was the assistant new?

--
/

Amatus

/
"John Weiss" <jrweiss@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:gbe04v$9aa$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> <muzician21@yahoo.com> wrote...
>>
>> He had just been in the room 3 minutes ago, he wasn't with a patient,
>> clearly he was going to see other patients who were there, it didn't
>> seem unreasonable to me that he could spend 2 - 3 minutes to
>> personally answer a question. I even clarified whether he was still in
>> the building. I asked her to go to his office and advise him I'd like
>> him to answer a question.
>>
>> When she came back I got more deflecting responses. She didn't say
>> "he'll be out in a few minutes" (maybe he's in the John or whatever -
>> fine, I'd be willing to wait) the response was basically he wouldn't
>> be able to address my question.
>
> I never had a dentist like that. Time to find another one.
>
>

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:35 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 24, 11:50 am, muzicia...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
> sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
> I've got your money fuck you" attitude?

I don't think there's enough information for you to make a decision to
switch yet. My dentist would answer any reasonable question if I
wanted to wait for him to be free. Your question would not have taken
long to answer unless you are the kind of person that tends to be a
time waster and there's no indication of that. A good dentist
schedules his work time in units based upon the expected work. He
should include enough time for spot questions, especially when this
might evolve into more business for him. He might have been running
behind or had a tough situation in the back room. When he returned
your call he was more in a position to give you whatever time you
needed. I'd cut him some slack because the work is more important than
the chair side manner. Perhaps your complaint has to do more with the
staff than the dentist as they were running interference for him.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:24 am
From: Patriot Games

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:01:02 GMT, chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief
Thracian) wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:32:43 -0400, Patriot Games
><Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>>Yet you FAILED to CITE any...
>Do your own googling

Translation: YOU were CAUGHT LYING.

>>I see. They hide yet you magically know they exist?
>There is such a thing as anonymous surveys.

Yet you FAILED to CITE any...

>>Yes, they NEVER rebelled. They marched.
>You gotta be kidding. Watts riots? Long hot summer (1967)? Etc.

The Civil Right Act was passed in 1964. The Watts riots were local
meaningless bullshit.

>>I stomped and boot-beat a few fags but I've never shot one. I bet
>>that'll be fun!
>No doubt in your gestapo uniform!

Down here in South Florida that type of attire is just too hot.

>>Where is that "rude awakening...?"
>When you least expect it.

Translation: It'll NEVER happen.

>You are a subliterate goon, typical ugly
>Amerikan. No wonder this country sucks so bad.

Then take your shitstained ass and cock-filled mouth somewhere else.
Ain't NOBODY stopping you.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:31 am
From: Patriot Games

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:59:19 GMT, chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief
Thracian) wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:32:43 -0400, Patriot Games
><Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>>>>At best maybe 4% of the population is FAGGOTS.
>>>Nope...10%, statistics have proven time and again.
>>Yet you FAILED to CITE any...
>--
>What Percentage of the Population Is Gay?
>by Jennifer Robison, Contributing Editor
>The 2000 U.S. Census Bureau found that homosexual couples constitute
>less than 1% of American households. The Family Research Report says
>"around 2-3% of men, and 2% of women, are homosexual or bisexual." The
>National Gay and Lesbian Task Force estimates three to eight percent
>of both sexes.

As I said....

>Read the entire article here:
>http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/What-Percentage-Population-Gay.aspx
>==========================
>--
>How Many Homosexuals ???
>Some claim gays only make up 1% of the population, which would be
>about 2.7 million citizens. Considering 500,000 attended the gay pride
>day in New York City (police estimate gays claimed 700,000), this
>would mean 1 in every 5 gays living in the United States
>attended...

That's 0.16%

>The government study which showed 1.534% was not confidential but
>verbal in person interviews.

Not close to 10%.....

>The best guess of actual homosexuality in the U.S. population is
>probably 10%

Uncited....

>Read the entire article here:
>http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section14.html
>--
>Now, these statistics do NOT include bisexuals. But when you DO
>include them--say, in regards to the percentage of non-heteros instead
>of just homosexuals--this percentage drastically increases to at least
>35%,

There is no such thing as "bisexuals."

Bisexuality is an ACTIVITY.

Homosexuality is a GENETIC SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

Heterosexuality is a GENETIC SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 9:36 am
From: Patriot Games

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:04:55 GMT, chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief
Thracian) wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:34:18 -0400, Patriot Games
><Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>>Another shit-eating foreigner EXPOSED:
>>From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
>>Path: sp6iad.superfeed.net!
>>in1.nntp.be!
>>eweka.nl!
>>hq-usenetpeers.eweka.nl!
>>eweka.nl = Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
>I use a news service out of the Netherlands.

Because you LIVE there.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 12:15 pm
From: "Tom Sr."

On Sep 16, 5:31 pm, Patriot Games <Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:56:10 GMT, "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.Com> wrote in message
> >news:7r0jc4ltaepcsbcteta3tv2qvmt7dlomld@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:25:19 -0700 (PDT), ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>http://consumerist.com/5047882/cvs-employee-calls-customer-a-fucking-...
> >>>Check out this stunning exchange between a Philadelphia CVS employee
> >>>and a customer:
> >>> His response was "Whatever, somebody needs to come deal with this
> >>>because I'm about to go off..."
> >>> "You're about to 'Go off?', I asked him."Do you really think
> >>>that's the best thing to say to a paying customer?"
> >>> And at this point, with his back turned to me, the young man
> >>>muttered "Fucking AIDS freak."
> >> Bwahahahahhahahaha!!
> >> Most people don't like fags, and just about everybody doesn't like
> >> AIDS-Fags!
> >>>We are both currently on a
> >>>medicaid-related health insurance plan, a situation that is new to us
> >>>and directly related to his current health issues.
> >> And the taxpayers are paying good money to keep a fag alive!?!?!
> >> Now THAT is an INJUSTICE!
> >==========
> >Anybody want to guess if this fellow is a Republican?
> -
> Yes, I am. Cunt.

Anyone who is unfamiliar with "Patriot Games", a.k.a. Bob Milby Jr. of
Florida, should go to his Google Groups' profile of Usenet posts using
the link below and read any 5-6 of his posts:

http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=rnFUuBMAAAAx98ToQl1Ygt96eyqtZ70FWMj6vob75xS36mXc24h6ww

Milby's existence is based on hating other people. His Life is Hate.

-Tom Sr.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Filthy Pink Sneakers. By Marina Cooper
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2bee831715378c55?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 10:01 am
From: krystinacarle@gmail.com

SEXY story. The cute doorman gives me an enigmatic look when I say I'm
here to see you. I am not sure if maybe he thinks I am your daughter.
You are not quite old enough for that, I am not quite young enough -
but we are pretty close. Am I wrong for thinking that's hot?
Definitely. I think... http://ragdai.info/sex-story.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Popular Meds. We got it all! lapv6
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/33ea0e038a832b21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 10:29 am
From: "smithorsilvia@gmail.com"

Start saving, best online pharmacy here http://defgjkmahl.nufehrurald.net/?bciahlxwvrsydefgjkzchcmm

Visit Canadian Health&Care Mall and you won't regret!
High-quality Viagra, Cialis and other medications.

Secure and confidential purchase, instant shipping worldwide!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:02 pm
From: "ChairMan"

In news:d56408f2-2ddb-4da3-a954-8a1c03916654@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
smithorsilvia@gmail.com <smithorsilvia@gmail.com>spewed forth:
> Start saving, best online pharmacy here
> http://defgjkmahl.nufehrurald.net/?bciahlxwvrsydefgjkzchcmm
>
> Visit Canadian Health&Care Mall and you won't regret!
> High-quality Viagra, Cialis and other medications.
>
> Secure and confidential purchase, instant shipping worldwide!

Canada, huh?
That's funny you ping to San Paulo

Name: 200-158-72-94.dsl.telesp.net.br
IP Address: 200.158.72.94
Location: Sao Paulo (23.533S, 46.628W)
Network: LACNIC-200

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Comment: This IP address range is under LACNIC responsibility for further
Comment: allocations to users in LACNIC region.
Comment: Please see http://www.lacnic.net/ for further details, or check
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ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2008-09-23 19:10
Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008

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