Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

Wednesday, September 24, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Opinions on dentist conduct
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a04b6ef8411a621?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:35 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 24, 11:50 am, muzicia...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
> sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
> I've got your money fuck you" attitude?

I don't think there's enough information for you to make a decision to
switch yet. My dentist would answer any reasonable question if I
wanted to wait for him to be free. Your question would not have taken
long to answer unless you are the kind of person that tends to be a
time waster and there's no indication of that. A good dentist
schedules his work time in units based upon the expected work. He
should include enough time for spot questions, especially when this
might evolve into more business for him. He might have been running
behind or had a tough situation in the back room. When he returned
your call he was more in a position to give you whatever time you
needed. I'd cut him some slack because the work is more important than
the chair side manner. Perhaps your complaint has to do more with the
staff than the dentist as they were running interference for him.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:58 pm
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Al Bundy wrote:
> On Sep 24, 11:50 am, muzicia...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
>> sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
>> I've got your money fuck you" attitude?
>
> I don't think there's enough information for you to make a decision to
> switch yet. My dentist would answer any reasonable question if I
> wanted to wait for him to be free. Your question would not have taken
> long to answer unless you are the kind of person that tends to be a
> time waster and there's no indication of that. A good dentist
> schedules his work time in units based upon the expected work. He
> should include enough time for spot questions, especially when this
> might evolve into more business for him. He might have been running
> behind or had a tough situation in the back room. When he returned
> your call he was more in a position to give you whatever time you
> needed. I'd cut him some slack because the work is more important than
> the chair side manner. Perhaps your complaint has to do more with the
> staff than the dentist as they were running interference for him.
>
>
>

Generally I agree. But the rushed feeling communicated is pretty much
what you go to a non-DMO dentist to avoid.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 2:03 pm
From: "Amatus Cremona"

When I still had my old practice, there was one patient there who ALWAYS
would come in and ask a list of questions which would require I spend an
additional 30-40 minutes responding. This was a wonderful person who was
pleasant and kind. Just an extreme "question box". My staff eventually
would do everything in their power to keep me away from this person. I
would try to email this person during lunch or after hours to get the
questions answered. Otherwise, I would have been behind schedule the rest
of the day. And,,,,, some days do not allow the luxury of losing 30 minutes
in the middle of the day.

--
/

Amatus

/
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message
news:eSxCk.1259$MN3.210@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Al Bundy wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 11:50 am, muzicia...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
>>> sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
>>> I've got your money fuck you" attitude?
>>
>> I don't think there's enough information for you to make a decision to
>> switch yet. My dentist would answer any reasonable question if I
>> wanted to wait for him to be free. Your question would not have taken
>> long to answer unless you are the kind of person that tends to be a
>> time waster and there's no indication of that. A good dentist
>> schedules his work time in units based upon the expected work. He
>> should include enough time for spot questions, especially when this
>> might evolve into more business for him. He might have been running
>> behind or had a tough situation in the back room. When he returned
>> your call he was more in a position to give you whatever time you
>> needed. I'd cut him some slack because the work is more important than
>> the chair side manner. Perhaps your complaint has to do more with the
>> staff than the dentist as they were running interference for him.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Generally I agree. But the rushed feeling communicated is pretty much
> what you go to a non-DMO dentist to avoid.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> http://www.dentaltwins.com
> Brooklyn, NY
> 718-258-5001

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 2:46 pm
From: muzician21@yahoo.com

On Sep 24, 12:09 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
> muzicia...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > Basically as an afterthought one of the girls at the front desk said
> > she could take my number to have the Dr. call me. I gave her my number
> > (the one they have on file) and left.
>
> > He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
> > sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
> > I've got your money fuck you" attitude?
>
> No, they don't. I generally try to answer patients' questions while
> they're there.
> But there may have been an important call (maybe a nature call!) and
> sometimes you're just behind.
> The important thing is that he did return your call.

He returned the call but it was only by luck that I happened to be
home. And a phone call wasn't his idea, it was that of his front desk
clerk. Had I not been home it would have been a matter of playing
phone tag assuming he would make subsequent efforts to follow up. He
also mentioned he was "between patients" - i.e. "I'm in a hurry" Had
he answered my question when I was there in the same building, it
would have been a moot point.

> Of course since
> it's about the relative merits of a particular tooth, he may have to get
> you back in to look--or could he answer your question over the phone?

The question was answerable over the phone, it was also answerable in
his office.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 2:58 pm
From: muzician21@yahoo.com

On Sep 24, 5:03 pm, "Amatus Cremona" <Nic...@sottovocce.com> wrote:
> When I still had my old practice, there was one patient there who ALWAYS
> would come in and ask a list of questions which would require I spend an
> additional 30-40 minutes responding. This was a wonderful person who was
> pleasant and kind. Just an extreme "question box". My staff eventually
> would do everything in their power to keep me away from this person.

When I'm paying what works out to about $500 - $750/hr up-front,
before the work is even completed - and with no expressed warranty on
how long the work is supposed to be good for - I don't have much
sympathy about them feeling I'm "wasting their time" with a couple of
questions.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 3:02 pm
From: muzician21@yahoo.com

On Sep 24, 3:03 pm, "Amatus Cremona" <Nic...@sottovocce.com> wrote:
> By any chance was the assistant new?

No, they've been there for years. I think they're the "head hygienist"
or whatever you'd call them. It had nothing to do with their being new
or experienced, the Dr. was made aware I wanted to speak to him and
declined to do so.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 4:43 pm
From: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Amatus Cremona wrote:
> When I still had my old practice, there was one patient there who ALWAYS
> would come in and ask a list of questions which would require I spend an
> additional 30-40 minutes responding. This was a wonderful person who was
> pleasant and kind. Just an extreme "question box". My staff eventually
> would do everything in their power to keep me away from this person. I
> would try to email this person during lunch or after hours to get the
> questions answered. Otherwise, I would have been behind schedule the rest
> of the day. And,,,,, some days do not allow the luxury of losing 30 minutes
> in the middle of the day.
>

Yeah, I think most of us have had similar experiences. ;-)

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 6:52 pm
From: Steven Fawks

Well, I don't know you, I don't know the dentist involved, and
I don't know what was actually going on in the office that day.

I do know that I have a few patients that when I see their name
on the schedule, I know things are going to be tough. A routine
hygiene check can turn into a 30 minute discussion on 10 different
toothpaste formulations.

These patients obviously think they are asking legitimate questions
and just find ways to wreck any attempt at staying on time for the
rest of the day.

Even if this is not a true description of you, it may have been the
dentist's interpretation of who you represented.

Steve

>>>Basically as an afterthought one of the girls at the front desk said
>>>she could take my number to have the Dr. call me. I gave her my number
>>>(the one they have on file) and left.
>>
>>>He did call later in the day but nonetheless I'm left with a really
>>>sour taste. I dunno, whaddya think? Do all dentists just take an "Now
>>>I've got your money fuck you" attitude?
>>
>> No, they don't. I generally try to answer patients' questions while
>>they're there.
>> But there may have been an important call (maybe a nature call!) and
>>sometimes you're just behind.
>> The important thing is that he did return your call.
>
>
>
> He returned the call but it was only by luck that I happened to be
> home. And a phone call wasn't his idea, it was that of his front desk
> clerk. Had I not been home it would have been a matter of playing
> phone tag assuming he would make subsequent efforts to follow up. He
> also mentioned he was "between patients" - i.e. "I'm in a hurry" Had
> he answered my question when I was there in the same building, it
> would have been a moot point.
>
>
>
>>Of course since
>>it's about the relative merits of a particular tooth, he may have to get
>>you back in to look--or could he answer your question over the phone?
>
>
>
> The question was answerable over the phone, it was also answerable in
> his office.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:06 pm
From: Steven Fawks

> When I'm paying what works out to about $500 - $750/hr up-front,
> before the work is even completed - and with no expressed warranty on
> how long the work is supposed to be good for - I don't have much
> sympathy about them feeling I'm "wasting their time" with a couple of
> questions.

Talented dentists are often in high demand. They also have limits on
how much they can deliver in any given day or week. That may be hard
for a particular patient to understand, but I have to deliver the
high quality care to every patient that comes in the office every day.

We are human.

One patient cannot intrude on my ability to fulfill my commitment to
the others.

BTW, you can always go back to the HMO dudes/dudettes.

Steve

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:29 pm
From: The Real Bev

Steven Fawks wrote:

> Well, I don't know you, I don't know the dentist involved, and
> I don't know what was actually going on in the office that day.
>
> I do know that I have a few patients that when I see their name
> on the schedule, I know things are going to be tough. A routine
> hygiene check can turn into a 30 minute discussion on 10 different
> toothpaste formulations.
>
> These patients obviously think they are asking legitimate questions
> and just find ways to wreck any attempt at staying on time for the
> rest of the day.

Have your staff book them in ONLY at the end of the day. Then while you
are answering questions "the girl" can be turning off the lights, etc.,
and reminding you that you have An Important Phone Call to make before 5:00.

OTOH, where is he going to get answers to those questions if not from you?

--
Cheers, Bev
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"I can't stand this proliferation of paperwork. It's useless to
fight the forms. You've got to kill the people producing them."
-- Vladimir Kabaidze

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:59 pm
From: The Real Bev

Steven Fawks wrote:

>> When I'm paying what works out to about $500 - $750/hr up-front,
>> before the work is even completed - and with no expressed warranty on
>> how long the work is supposed to be good for - I don't have much
>> sympathy about them feeling I'm "wasting their time" with a couple of
>> questions.
>
> Talented dentists are often in high demand. They also have limits on
> how much they can deliver in any given day or week. That may be hard
> for a particular patient to understand, but I have to deliver the
> high quality care to every patient that comes in the office every day.
>
> We are human.

Hard to tell. Appointments used to mean that you'd get in to see the
doc/dentist within 5 or 10 minutes of the nominal time. Now you're
lucky if it's an hour. You'd have happier patients if they didn't have
to take an extra hour off work to sit in your waiting room.

When you (generic, not personal) book 4 patients at 8:15 and another 4
patients at 8:30, it's no wonder patients aren't willing to cut you much
slack. Yeah, I examined the sign-in sheet.

> One patient cannot intrude on my ability to fulfill my commitment to
> the others.
>
> BTW, you can always go back to the HMO dudes/dudettes.

A better solution for those who need a lot of work and/or live within
reasonable driving distance -- Los Algodones, Mexico. Just south of
Yuma. Prescription glasses too.

http://www.losalgodones.com/dental_index.htm

SIL and her husband recommend Connie Ayala. A group of us had a
humongous amount of dental work (crowns, implants, dentures, root
canals) done in a week by Jose Valenzuela. All told, an excellent
experience. I haven't had one of those since my GOOD dentist died about
10 years ago.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================================
"Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?"
-- Jennifer, WKRP

==============================================================================
TOPIC: City reappraised our house up 31% !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8459c124a40d2583?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:43 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 24, 9:50 am, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
> at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
> telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
> purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
> a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
> there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
> all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
> on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
> message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
> or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
> making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
> message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
> send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
> we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
> only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
> appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
> times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
> you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
> reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> Thanks!

Forget about appraisals. Tax people generally look at comparable sales
in the area, hopefully on your block. A comparable is a recent sale of
a home with similar characteristics as yours. Most real estate
agencies can provide this information to you. They have it at their
fingertips and can print it out. In my area they make the owner apply
every year for a correction to their over estimate of value. You are
lucky if it lasts six years. All the more reason for you to go for it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 2:53 pm
From: max

In article <gbdgip$eut$1@aioe.org>, OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
> at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
> telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
> purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
> appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
> some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
> a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
> there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
> all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
> on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
> message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
> or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
> making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
> message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
> send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
> we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
> only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
> appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
> times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
> you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
> reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> Thanks!

make sure you read and understand their appraisal practice for your
city. It is written down, and probably on the assessors website.
Again: read their procedure -- what you think they are doing is
virtually guarenteed not to be what they actually are doing.

Many communities assess and evaluate homes on a rolling-average of three
years or so. It's quite possible to be on the wrong side of the curve
with these things, esp now in a melting market, but find yourself to be
receiving exactly the bill you're supposed to get.

IOW, there's a fair chance that you're screwed. sorry. You need to
find out what the rules are. Then, if you think there's a chance
you're in the right, _hire_ a local real estate tax attorney to go to
bat for you.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 4:12 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

My city did the same thing.. they only re appraise each area ever 4 years so
it's just a matter of bad luck as far as the timing of it goes.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:50:14 -0400, in misc.consumers.frugal-living OhioGuy
<none@none.net> wrote:

> Despite the fact that homes in our area are lucky if they get offers
>at half the appraised values right now, our city just sent out letters
>telling us that they have reappraised our homes up more than 31% for tax
>purposes!
>
> The letter gives us 20 days to request a discussion of the new
>appraisal. We can supposedly set up a meeting of this type if we have
>some form of proof to show that the value is not as they say.
>
> The city outsourced this to an appraisal firm, and I've had a heck of
>a time getting in touch with them. I called 10 times yesterday, and
>there was no way to wait to talk to anyone. Every time, it told me that
>all agents were busy. I tried numerous choices, and always got hung up
>on. Finally, the tenth time, for some reason I was able to leave a
>message. However, I am not at all confident that they will call back,
>or that anyone will check the message. It almost seems like they are
>making it very difficult to set up the appointment, or even to leave a
>message, so that they can just say it is past the 20 days.
>
> I think I'm going to look up the contact info for the company and
>send a certified letter. Whatever the appraisal is set at will be what
>we pay taxes on for the next 6 years, so it may be worth it even if we
>only save $100 a year.
>
> Anyone have any experience in this? How can I "prove" that they have
>appraised it up too high? Do I just need to get it appraised several
>times, and hope that the appraisals come out on the low end? What would
>you do in a situation like this, to try to ensure that they lower their
>reappraisal value down somewhat?
>
> Thanks!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - fees go up to 19% of listing price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/31e9404b0a6e5dfd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:49 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 24, 1:42 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> > I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
> > $1 at White Castle.
>
> How old are you, Al?

I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care, but I have a
good memory and was driving when I was 12. Cigarettes went up to a
quarter in vending machines and the pack had three pennies change
under the cellophane wrapper. (Have not smoked in many decades though.)

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 2:37 pm
From: val189

On Sep 24, 4:49 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 24, 1:42 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
> > > I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
> > > $1 at White Castle.
>
> > How old are you, Al?
>
> I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care, but I have a
> good memory and was driving when I was 12. Cigarettes went up to a
> quarter in vending machines and the pack had three pennies change
> under the cellophane wrapper. (Have not smoked in many decades though.)

Now I'm REALLY mad. I was gypped. We only got two taped cents back.

Ah, the days of the 15 cent hamburger and nickel A and W rootbeer.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 3:26 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT), val189
<gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Sep 24, 4:49 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 1:42 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
>> > > $1 at White Castle.
>>
>> > How old are you, Al?
>>
>> I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care, but I have a
>> good memory and was driving when I was 12. Cigarettes went up to a
>> quarter in vending machines and the pack had three pennies change
>> under the cellophane wrapper. (Have not smoked in many decades though.)
>
>Now I'm REALLY mad. I was gypped. We only got two taped cents back.
>
>Ah, the days of the 15 cent hamburger and nickel A and W rootbeer.

The White Castle price might be off, depending on year/location.
I remember in 1959 sliders being 12 cents. Maybe there was a dozen
for a buck deal I never paid attention to. Reason I remember is the
first McDonalds I saw opened up a few blocks away, and the burger
was 15 cents, which I thought was an absolute rip off given it tasted
like sawdust.
I'd take a White Castle over that McD burger any day.

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:08 pm
From: Al Bundy

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT), val189
> <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >On Sep 24, 4:49 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 24, 1:42 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > I remember when gas was 17¢ a gallon and hamburgers were a dozen for
> >> > > $1 at White Castle.
> >>
> >> > How old are you, Al?
> >>
> >> I'm too young for Medicare and too old for women to care, but I have a
> >> good memory and was driving when I was 12. Cigarettes went up to a
> >> quarter in vending machines and the pack had three pennies change
> >> under the cellophane wrapper. (Have not smoked in many decades though.)
> >
> >Now I'm REALLY mad. I was gypped. We only got two taped cents back.
> >
> >Ah, the days of the 15 cent hamburger and nickel A and W rootbeer.
>
> The White Castle price might be off, depending on year/location.
> I remember in 1959 sliders being 12 cents. Maybe there was a dozen
> for a buck deal I never paid attention to. Reason I remember is the
> first McDonalds I saw opened up a few blocks away, and the burger
> was 15 cents, which I thought was an absolute rip off given it tasted
> like sawdust.
> I'd take a White Castle over that McD burger any day.
>
> --Vic

They did have specials, but I also remember a couple of white building
knock-offs of White Castle. One was called Motts Hamburgers. Another
was Bates Burgers. They had a dozen for a buck regularly. If you
loaded up with onions, tomato, and mustard, you were getting healthy
vegetables too! The local precursor of McDonald's was called Henry's
Hamburgers.
Even today, an eleven year old likes a White Castle burger now and
then. I couldn't tell you what they cost now and I don't care. I have
noticed that two small Frosties at Wendy's has gone from $2.10 to
$2.95 in just a few months. We're going to have to get used to it
more as the dollar becomes worth-less faster.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Prez.Clinton explained the mortgage meltdown on TV
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/545484fd7c3fa1d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 1:06 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:46:33 -0500, gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
wrote:
>Letterman always has two
>very attractive models in the green room or on the set to keep the
>guests company while they're waiting.

Not so great for the gay guests, eh? Except maybe for Ellen.

--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org

==============================================================================
TOPIC: more
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/406da33c77c432ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 3:00 pm
From: Derald

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=307062470860000

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1502&status=article&id=307061229501695

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=307061748542374

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=307062146193647

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Popular Meds. We got it all! lapv6
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/33ea0e038a832b21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 3:16 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Sep 24, 4:02 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
> Innews:d56408f2-2ddb-4da3-a954-8a1c03916654@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
> smithorsil...@gmail.com <smithorsil...@gmail.com>spewed forth:
>
> > Start saving, best online pharmacy here
> >http://defgjkmahl.nufehrurald.net/?bciahlxwvrsydefgjkzchcmm
>
> > Visit Canadian Health&Care Mall and you won't regret!
> > High-quality Viagra, Cialis and other medications.
>
> > Secure and confidential purchase, instant shipping worldwide!
>
> Canada, huh?
> That's funny you ping to San Paulo
>
Says on the site, "We would like to admit that our online store is
operating independently from the offline store system."
They further state that they don't store any drugs in Canada, but they
use the same suppliers as a Canadian pharmacy. Close reading looks
like a refined Chinese form of Engrish, better, but not correct.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 6:05 pm
From: clams_casino

smithorsilvia@gmail.com wrote:

>Start saving, best online pharmacy here
>

Got salt?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Corporate Piggies at the Public Trough.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f8a7ff7a2f07422?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 5:47 pm
From: wismel@yahoo.com

> http://heylookhear.com/UserImage/CorporatePigBailout

Write you congressman and senators via email at this site:

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

ted

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Radiant Floor heating - nonliquid?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b2399bf8e581df6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:01 pm
From: David Lesher

"Rob Dekker" <rob@verific.com> writes:

>PEX comes in various ratings, but typically can handle close-to-boiling
>water under pressure easily.

>My system is a closed-loop system driven from the water heater, and
>can't get any hotter than 130 F and low pressure (12 psi PT relief
>valve on the loop). But even if all safety measures would fail, the my
>(cheap) PEX can handle 100 psi at 180 F, so I feel pretty secure that
>something else will blow out first.

I'm talking degradation, not sudden pressure failures...I'll let you find
out if it's true...your tubing is easy to replace.

>> But I didn't lay the floor, just designed the GSHP controls and
>> installed them.

>Cool. I did not go that far. How much piping went into the ground ? ?
>How deep did you have to go What were the economics calculations of ?
>such a ground-heat system versus other heat sources What was the water ?
>temperature requirement for the floor heating system ? How did that ?
>affect your GSHP specs I wonder how that system looks like. Have any ?
>pics ?

Well, it was that or propane; and the 10 years since have proven
the wells a wise choice.. but it was lots of capital. [3 wells,
~250 ft deep.]

I don't have any pictures. I think there are 12 floor zones and
6 FCU's used for AC as well.

>I currently use my water heater as a heat source, but are now planning
>to hook that up to DHW solar panels to get some heat from the sun.

We installed a spare 40 gal in case of a GSHP failure or lengthy power
outage. My SWAG showed it would keep the house about freezing. It's never
been used; when occupied & fed, the 2 wood stoves can drive you out onto the
porch in a blizzard, if fueled with pine.

The desuperheater feeds the domestic HW tempering tank.

>> The idea was you can disconnect that one loop and use the other{s}.

>OK. Makes sense, especially in emergency situations. But often a leak
>did already do water damage to the flooring before we find it out, so I
>would think that it requires fixing either way.

Hard to damage concrete with a little water.

>I think that's called a insulated sandwich slab-on-slab. Great system !

>Over existing slab, put 1 inch (or more) insulation, lay out rebar and
>PEX tubes, and poor a couple of inches of concrete over it for the
>new floor.

This IS slab; installed at construction. Yes, it is slow response.

>Downsides are that the system is pretty thick (4 inch minimum) and that
>water temps need to be relatively high (140 F and up).

No way. I have to think but I recall our upper limit is 30C. With
a GSHP, it costs exponentially more to raise the loop temp.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Financial crisis affecting you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/13d6ead47b0461dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 7:30 pm
From: James

Unless you work in the finance industry or just bought an overpriced
house, are you affected? I feel the price of oil more than the fall
of Lehman Bros. and AIG.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, September 24, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

No comments: