Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 8 topics

Wednesday, June 2, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freezer question, your experience.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c40f512af1456d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 11:01 pm
From: no-spam@sonic.net (Fake ID)

In article <4C053A72.ABA82B8@sonic.net>,
Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote:
>john hamilton wrote:
>>
>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air inside, after
>> the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory is that it will not need
>> defrosting as often as normal.
>
>You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>unopened milk cartons burst?

Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?

== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 3:36 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Fake ID wrote
> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>> john hamilton wrote

>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air
>>> inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory
>>> is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.

>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>> unopened milk cartons burst?

> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?

Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.

== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:24 am
From: "h"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hu4eqh$96h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 06/01/10 19:00, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Lou Decruss<LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>>>spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>> spamtrap1888<spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>>>
>>>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>>>
>>>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>>>insist on a chest freezer.
>>
>> I've always wondered that too -- or, more specifically, why anyone would
>> even
>> consider a chest freezer.
>
> Horizontal space should NEVER be wasted.
>

Chest freezers use less energy and are more efficient at keeping an even
temperature, at least that's what the prevailing opinion was when I bought
one 20 years ago. Our chest freezer is in the laundry room (off the
kitchen), just below a double window. There's a basket on top for the
smallest cat to sleep in. If I need to get into the freezer I just pickup up
the basket and put it on the dryer and then move it back afterwards. The cat
never wakes up.

== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:42 am
From: spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)

In article <hu4eqh$96h$1@news.eternal-september.org>, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 06/01/10 19:00, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Lou Decruss<LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>>>spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>> spamtrap1888<spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>>>
>>>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>>>
>>>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>>>insist on a chest freezer.
>>
>> I've always wondered that too -- or, more specifically, why anyone would even
>> consider a chest freezer.
>
>The cold doesn't leak out when you open the door.

That's basically irrelevant. You *might* lose five to ten cubic feet of cold
air when opening an upright freezer -- let's call it ten. Ten cubic feet of
air has a mass of around one pound. That's not going to make any noticeable
difference in the temperature inside, unless you *leave* the door open.
>
>> That large flat area is such a tempting place to set
>> all kinds of crap on top of...
>
>And you think that's a bad thing?

Makes it kinda hard to open the lid.

>Invest in one of those nice sturdy chrome
>rolling shelf units -- when you need something in the freezer just roll it
>away. If that won't fit around the freezer, hang shelves or cabinets above it.

Or just get an upright freezer.
>
>Horizontal space should NEVER be wasted.

Which of course is yet another reason for *not* getting a chest freezer: it
takes up twice as much floor space as an upright.

== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:44 am
From: spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)

In article <86mqh7Fb42U1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>Fake ID wrote
>> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>>> john hamilton wrote
>
>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air
>>>> inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory
>>>> is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.
>
>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>>> unopened milk cartons burst?
>
>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?
>
>Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.

Wrong.

== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:46 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <85db06h49ajpm60vchueomu3pnmkmi6ljc@4ax.com>, Lou Decruss <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 22:44:14 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article
> <cc6642a1-7cca-4492-8e5d-b296b03c5139@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>
>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>
>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>insist on a chest freezer.

MORE efficient. All I know are not self defrosting, more
efficiency, and less drying out of food. Also flavor transfer.

greg

== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:47 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <hu42g0$og5$2@news.eternal-september.org>, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <cc6642a1-7cca-4492-8e5d-b296b03c5139@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>summer and colder in winter.
>
>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.

The statement is perfectly true. Think about the reference temperature..

greg

== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:48 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <hu4dvs$3kb$6@news.eternal-september.org>, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <85db06h49ajpm60vchueomu3pnmkmi6ljc@4ax.com>, Lou Decruss
> <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 22:44:14 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article
>> <cc6642a1-7cca-4492-8e5d-b296b03c5139@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>>
>>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>>
>>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>>insist on a chest freezer.
>
>I've always wondered that too -- or, more specifically, why anyone would even
>consider a chest freezer. That large flat area is such a tempting place to set
>all kinds of crap on top of...

When you take something out, its a place to work on food items.
It does consume more floor space.

greg

== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:50 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

If a vacuum freezer would have a leak, it would suck in more moisture.

== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:48 am
From: Lou Decruss

On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 19:14:39 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 06/01/10 19:00, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Lou Decruss<LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>>>spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>> spamtrap1888<spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>>>
>>>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>>>
>>>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>>>insist on a chest freezer.
>>
>> I've always wondered that too -- or, more specifically, why anyone would even
>> consider a chest freezer.
>
>The cold doesn't leak out when you open the door.
>
>> That large flat area is such a tempting place to set
>> all kinds of crap on top of...
>
>And you think that's a bad thing? Invest in one of those nice sturdy chrome
>rolling shelf units -- when you need something in the freezer just roll it
>away.

That's just silly.

>If that won't fit around the freezer, hang shelves or cabinets above it.

They'd have to be mounted pretty high to allow clearance for the door.
Do you recommend climbing on top the freezer to get to the cabinets?
I'm not going to look up freezer specs but it doesn't sound like a
useful setup.

Lou

== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:55 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <hu5na5$rj2$2@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS) wrote:
>In article <85db06h49ajpm60vchueomu3pnmkmi6ljc@4ax.com>, Lou Decruss
> <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 22:44:14 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article
>> <cc6642a1-7cca-4492-8e5d-b296b03c5139@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in
>>>>summer and colder in winter.
>>>
>>>Surely you don't mean what you wrote.
>>
>>I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder why someone would
>>insist on a chest freezer.
>
>MORE efficient. All I know are not self defrosting, more
>efficiency, and less drying out of food. Also flavor transfer.
>
>greg

I have always complained about self defrosting, fan driven stuff.
And its always seems to be in the defrost mode when I
am putting warmer food in from the store. it should never go
on defrost during wakeing hours. the time should be able to
be set by the user. Like 3 AM for instance.
I have measure temps of the 45 minuite defrost cycle
and they rise pretty high, and ice cream is always softer
after this occurs. If your kids are going in and out on a warm day during
a defrost cycle, you beter watch out.

greg

== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 8:43 am
From: Derald

"john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote:

>The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air inside, after
>the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory is that it will not need
>defrosting as often as normal.
That's just silly; does the Miela include an assistant to open the
door for you?
>
>Knowing that its just not easy to get an airtight seal, the suspicion is
>that it might draw the air out but; it will creep back in again anyway.
I believe you to be the target of a sales pitch touting a useless
"feature". Freezers have valves that let air _in_ after the door is
closed. If they did not, then you'd not be able to open the door again
for a very long time, if ever, because of the inside-outside pressure
differential resulting from cooling of the air in the freezer. The
effect is less pronounced with a chest freezer because the cold air
inside doesn't fall on the floor everytime the freezer's opened as it
does with an upright. I believe that upright freezers and top-freezer
fridges must have been designed by an electricity utility company.
>
>Would anyone with experience of the Miele freezer know if its worth paying
>the extra £100 for this 'de-frost' feature. In other words does it work as
>a means of cutting out defrosting?
Why not consider a standard "frost-free" appliance? Frost-free
technology has been in the marketplace for at least forty years. A
non-stick interior surface and a high-velocity circulation of frigid air
briefly immediately after closing evaporates frost as it forms,
preventing any visible evidence of frost and eliminating the necessity
for "defrosting" entirely. A heated gasket seat prevents condensation
on/around the gasket. In U.S.A. the gasket heating is switchable.
--
the Balvenieman
"You know what they say: Once you kill a cow,
You gotta make a burger" --Lady Gaga

== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:14 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Doug Miller wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Fake ID wrote
>>> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>>>> john hamilton wrote

>>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the
>>>>> air inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the
>>>>> theory is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.

>>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>>>> unopened milk cartons burst?

>>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?

>> Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.

> Wrong.

Nope, I do it quite a bit with milk, basically when defrosting the fridge.

My freezers are separate from the fridge.

== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:18 am
From: "Rod Speed"

GregS wrote
> Lou Decruss <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote
>> (Doug Miller) wrote
>> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still will be warmer in summer and colder in winter.

>>> Surely you don't mean what you wrote.

>> I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder
>> why someone would insist on a chest freezer.

> MORE efficient.

Only trivially. The amount of air involved is trivial.

> All I know are not self defrosting,

Plenty of upright freezers are too.

> more efficiency,

Only marginally.

> and less drying out of food. Also flavor transfer.

Thats a myth.

Particularly if the freezer is in the kitchen and thats by
far the most convenient place to have it, a vertical freezer
is much more convenient to use and takes up less floor
space and is well worth the trivially lower efficence that
you get becaue the air falls out when you open the door.

== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:21 am
From: "Rod Speed"

GregS wrote
> spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote
>> Lou Decruss <LouDecruss@biteme.com> wrote
>>> spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote
>>> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> Unless the cellar is deep underground, cellars still
>>>>> will be warmer in summer and colder in winter.

>>>> Surely you don't mean what you wrote.

>>> I was wondering about that myself. I also wonder
>>> why someone would insist on a chest freezer.

>> I've always wondered that too -- or, more specifically, why
>> anyone would even consider a chest freezer. That large flat
>> area is such a tempting place to set all kinds of crap on top of...

> When you take something out, its a place to work on food items.

I prefer to have adequate bench space in the kitchen for that.

> It does consume more floor space.

So in practice that isnt likely to be much use even if you are very short of bench space.

== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:23 am
From: "Rod Speed"

GregS wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Fake ID wrote
>>> Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote
>>>> john hamilton wrote

>>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air
>>>>> inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory
>>>>> is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.

>>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
>>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
>>>> unopened milk cartons burst?

>>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?

>> Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.

> If a vacuum freezer would have a leak, it would suck in more moisture.

Yes, but its easy to ensure that it doesnt leak.

I doubt its a vacuum freezer anyway, I bet the sales spiel mangles what it actually does.

== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:30 am
From: Roy

On Jun 2, 11:23 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> GregS wrote
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Fake ID wrote
> >>> Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote
> >>>> john hamilton wrote
> >>>>> The Miela has this feature which is suppose to expel the air
> >>>>> inside, after the lid is closed. With less air trapped the theory
> >>>>> is that it will not need defrosting as often as normal.
> >>>> You mean there's a partial vacuum inside?
> >>>> Wouldn't that make plastic bags and
> >>>> unopened milk cartons burst?
> >>> Wouldn't the unopened milk cartons burst anyway once the milk froze?
> >> Nope, its only glass containers that burst when the contents freeze.
> > If a vacuum freezer would have a leak, it would suck in more moisture.
>
> Yes, but its easy to ensure that it doesnt leak.
>
> I doubt its a vacuum freezer anyway, I bet the sales spiel mangles what it actually does.

==
I'll go along with that conclusion as well.
==

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 2010 Men's Fashion
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a7916432d8fadfe0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 2:12 am
From: ekr3d

Are you introduced to the 2010 Men's Fashion
fashion-ekramy.blogspot.com/2010/04/man-fashion-week-z-zegna-
spring-2010.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you know what the sheep are up to?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/edb8e8457b009ada?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:48 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

Note: Sheep is only a metaphor, so the sheep reading this won't get
confused with real sheep. Get it?

Anyway, I think the sheep are trying to take over the city, and
then... take over the world!

Here it goes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXYF7y1M0LE&feature=related

More adventures may or may not follow.

-----------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Never trust the sheep who follow the wolf"

http://webspawner.com/users/MASTURBATIONFORPEACE

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Western women are so repressed because they are insecure
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/221235c3afb6b6c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 5:49 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

These are the causes and consequences of obesity in America...

Results: The direct costs of lack of physical activity, defined
conservatively as absence of leisure-time physical activity, are
approximately 24 billion dollars or 2.4% of the U.S. health care
expenditures. Direct costs for obesity defined as body mass index
greater than 30, in 1995 dollars, total 70 billion dollars. These
costs are independent of those resulting from lack of activity.

Conclusion: Overall, the direct costs of inactivity and obesity
account for some 9.4% of the national health care expenditures in the
United States. Inactivity, with its wide range of health consequences,
represents a major avoidable contribution to the costs of illness in
the United States and other countries with modern lifestyles that have
replaced physical labor with sedentary occupations and motorized
transportation.

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/1999/11001/Economic_costs_of_obesity_and_inactivity.26.aspx

IS THE FAT SHEEP A HAPPY SHEEP?

But if you look on the bright side of it, the Medical Industry reaps
the benefits. ;)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Capitalism and Evolution
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/270d1b2cdaaa7015?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:02 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, ComandanteBanana and Chief of Quixotic
Enterprises"

On Jun 2, 8:47 am, Ilya Shambat <ibsham...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are many people, especially in America, who believe in
> capitalism but not in evolution. They find it impossible to believe
> that life in all its richness and intricacy could have "just happened"
> and believe that the only possible explanation is design by an
> intelligent Creator. In fact it could have very well "just happened,"
> and to understand this one needs look no further than the good ole
> American capitalism.
>
> People who have no knowledge of capitalist economics, such as ones who
> lived in the Soviet Union, frequently find it unfathomable how a
> system like America's, which is not command-control, could have such
> an intelligent design. That there is a store for everything, there is
> something for every purse and purpose, and pieces fit together, leads
> them to think that all this prosperity must have been designed by the
> government. Of course that is not the case, and most of what is bought
> and sold in America was produced by private businesses with no
> connection to one another. It happened because people kept looking for
> opportunities to make money - and found them by producing one or
> another thing that people would want to buy. As they competed with one
> another, they put pressure on one another to produce quality goods. As
> they became wealthier, there consumed more, creating opportunity for
> other people to produce other, new goods that did not exist
> previously. And that is how the American system was made possible, and
> achieved greater intelligence and quality of products than did
> centrally planned systems.
>
> The exact same thing has happened in the natural world. Mutation by
> mutation, different forms of life arose and either survived or didn't.
> As more life forms came about, there was more biomass for other new
> life forms to arise. Competition perfected them all to an
> exceptionally high level. And the result was a planet verdant, rich,
> beautiful, exquisitely balanced, with millions of unique and intricate
> life forms existing in dynamic equilibrium - a process that took over
> 4 billion years, and that could easily have taken place all by itself.
>
> If a process like capitalism can over two hundred years create the
> wealth and vibrancy of America - including such hi-tech contraptions
> as supercomputers, nanotechnological devices, credit cards, artificial
> limbs, space vehicles - over two hundred years, then what can take
> place over 4 billion years? Evolution may seem incredulous, but
> becomes less so when considering what capitalism accomplished over a
> vastly shorter period of time. Nature does not require an
> intelligent creator to explain all its richness and intricacy any more
> than America requires an absolute monarch to explain the vibrancy of
> its economy. Indeed, if one is to look at example of centrally planned
> economic systems, a nature put into place by the dictate of an
> intelligent creator would be expected to be a lot less rich place than
> it is.
>
> So this is the way to conceptualize it. If you respect capitalism,
> then you should also respect
> evolution. The two processes have a lot in common, and understanding
> one allows one to understand the other. Nature no more requires an
> intelligent creator to make it possible than does capitalism require
> central planning to achieve what it has achieved. Indeed, an
> intelligent creator would probably be seen by plants and animals to be
> as much of a pest as many economic players in America see the federal
> government. But that is a theme for another essay.

It all makes sense, except that in such capitalist jungle the
predators run the process of evolution (selling Stupid Unnecessary
Vehicles, for example) instead of looking for a balanced and equitable
development (such as providing bike facilities or public
transportation). This is the dinosaurs in the middle of the Jurassic
refusing to evolve to smarter ways of life, surely influenced by
religion's denial of evolution.

-----------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"The capitalist jungle must be tamed"

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION (love conquers the beast)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When your relatives commit ID fraud - and what to do
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/53a272c923afc263?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:51 am
From: Lenona

Just thought I'd dig up this Nov. 1998 Ann Landers column - a naive
one that readers responded to and thus made her change her mind.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=894&dat=19981106&id=aLQKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ck0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6361,776893

Her advice as to what the victims "should" have done is ridiculous.
What would have been the chances of getting their money back had they
followed her advice on how to do so? Hint: She said that the victims
should not have filed charges because "relatives don't do that to one
another."

And here are the respondents:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19990119&id=c30VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9-sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4994,4909613

Readers Rap Grandma's `Ripoff'
January 19, 1999 By Ann Landers.

Dear Ann Landers: I would like to respond to the letter from "Ticked
Off in Texas." His mother-in-law, "Edna," used her granddaughter's
name to get phone service, and then, "Tiffany," the granddaughter,
wound up $500 in debt. She filed charges against Grandma for fraud.
You said, "Relatives don't do that to one another." Ann, Tiffany HAD
to file fraud charges to get the negative credit removed from her
report. Paying it off without disputing the charges would still cause
credit problems for the girl.

I negotiate home loans for one of the nation's largest lenders. Here's
what would have happened had Tiffany not filed the fraud report: It
would be virtually impossible for her to get a car loan at normal
interest rates. She would forever have to put down a large deposit to
get utilities. She would have difficulty qualifying for student loans
and certainly would have trouble getting her first home.

Early credit problems for young people can forever change the way
their credit is treated. Where I work, there is a flag put on credit
reports for Social Security numbers issued in the last 18 years -- and
thus belonging to minors. If the phone company had had this
information, they would not have extended credit to 16-year-old
Tiffany.

While I'm at it, let me take this opportunity to get across some
important credit information to your readers: If you are moving to
another state and plan to buy a home, keep close at hand your tax
returns, bank statements and recent paycheck stubs. You will need
these to qualify for the mortgage on a new home.

If you are getting a divorce and dividing the debts, be certain you
list the company name and account number for each credit card debt in
the property settlement. Don't let your attorney write, "He gets this
bill, and she gets the other." Ten years later, it's difficult to
determine who was supposed to pay what bills when new accounts and new
spouses are added to the mix.

Diana in Palm Harbor, Fla.

Dear Diana: Thanks for giving my readers a lot of valuable legal
advice for free. Keep reading for more about Edna and Tiffany:

From California: Your advice to "Ticked Off in Texas" was way off the
mark. My wife's elderly aunt was ripped off for more than $150,000 by
her nephew. The money came from the sale of her home and was her
retirement nest egg. She sued him to get it back. Would you have
denied her that money just because he was a relative? Grandma is a
crook and deserved to be nailed.

Temple, Texas: I couldn't believe your addle-brained response to
"Ticked Off." The only thing Tiffany's parents should have done
differently was warn Grandma of the impending fraud charges if she
didn't pay up promptly and clear the matter with the phone company.
That would have given Grandma the chance to do the right thing and
preserve family harmony before Tiffany filed a fraud report.

Honolulu: You blew it, Ann. If the phone company could not collect the
$500 debt from Deadbeat Granny, how do you expect 16-year-old Tiffany
to do it? Granny sounds like a con artist. A day in a jail cell might
do her some good.

Roanoke, Va.: Filing charges is the only way to clear Tiffany's name.
I have seen families try to put phone bills and bank accounts in the
names of children who were 4 or 5 years old. "Ticked Off" might want
to write other utility companies and get a copy of Tiffany's credit
report to make sure Granny hasn't surprised her again. In fact,
everyone should get a copy of his or her credit report once a year.
Also, Ann, your Pollyanna notion that relatives shouldn't sue each
other is naive. When the relative is a crook, that person should be
treated like any other crook.

Dear Readers: I'm afraid I put family loyalty ahead of the financial
and legal facts of life. The critics are right.

(end)

(I realize, of course, that things may be even more complicated now,
but the pragmatic lesson is still the same.)

Lenona.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:31 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Lenona wrote:

> Just thought I'd dig up this Nov. 1998 Ann Landers column - a naive
> one that readers responded to and thus made her change her mind.

> http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=894&dat=19981106&id=aLQKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ck0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6361,776893

> Her advice as to what the victims "should" have done is ridiculous.
> What would have been the chances of getting their money back had they
> followed her advice on how to do so? Hint: She said that the victims should
> not have filed charges because "relatives don't do that to one another."

She's right. Only stupid americans are that litigious.

> And here are the respondents:

> http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19990119&id=c30VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9-sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4994,4909613

> Readers Rap Grandma's `Ripoff'
> January 19, 1999 By Ann Landers.

> Dear Ann Landers: I would like to respond to the letter from "Ticked
> Off in Texas." His mother-in-law, "Edna," used her granddaughter's
> name to get phone service, and then, "Tiffany," the granddaughter,
> wound up $500 in debt. She filed charges against Grandma for fraud.
> You said, "Relatives don't do that to one another." Ann, Tiffany HAD
> to file fraud charges to get the negative credit removed from her report.

Only in the stupid american system.

> Paying it off without disputing the charges would still cause credit problems for the girl.

Disputing the charges isnt the same thing as having granny charged by the cops.

> I negotiate home loans for one of the nation's largest lenders. Here's what
> would have happened had Tiffany not filed the fraud report: It would be
> virtually impossible for her to get a car loan at normal interest rates.

Only in the stupid american system. In our system, the ombudsman
would force the credit reporting agency to amend the credit report.

> She would forever have to put down a large deposit to get
> utilities. She would have difficulty qualifying for student loans
> and certainly would have trouble getting her first home.

> Early credit problems for young people can forever change the way
> their credit is treated. Where I work, there is a flag put on credit
> reports for Social Security numbers issued in the last 18 years -- and
> thus belonging to minors. If the phone company had had this
> information, they would not have extended credit to 16-year-old
> Tiffany.

> While I'm at it, let me take this opportunity to get across some
> important credit information to your readers: If you are moving to
> another state and plan to buy a home, keep close at hand your tax
> returns, bank statements and recent paycheck stubs. You will need
> these to qualify for the mortgage on a new home.

Only in the stupid US system.

> If you are getting a divorce and dividing the debts, be certain you
> list the company name and account number for each credit card debt in
> the property settlement. Don't let your attorney write, "He gets this
> bill, and she gets the other." Ten years later, it's difficult to
> determine who was supposed to pay what bills when new
> accounts and new spouses are added to the mix.

Or dont divorce in the first place.

> Diana in Palm Harbor, Fla.

> Dear Diana: Thanks for giving my readers a lot of valuable legal
> advice for free. Keep reading for more about Edna and Tiffany:

> From California: Your advice to "Ticked Off in Texas" was way off the
> mark. My wife's elderly aunt was ripped off for more than $150,000 by
> her nephew. The money came from the sale of her home and was her
> retirement nest egg. She sued him to get it back. Would you have
> denied her that money just because he was a relative? Grandma is a
> crook and deserved to be nailed.

> Temple, Texas: I couldn't believe your addle-brained response to
> "Ticked Off." The only thing Tiffany's parents should have done
> differently was warn Grandma of the impending fraud charges if she
> didn't pay up promptly and clear the matter with the phone company.
> That would have given Grandma the chance to do the right thing and
> preserve family harmony before Tiffany filed a fraud report.

> Honolulu: You blew it, Ann. If the phone company could not collect the
> $500 debt from Deadbeat Granny, how do you expect 16-year-old Tiffany
> to do it? Granny sounds like a con artist. A day in a jail cell might
> do her some good.

> Roanoke, Va.: Filing charges is the only way to clear Tiffany's name.
> I have seen families try to put phone bills and bank accounts in the
> names of children who were 4 or 5 years old. "Ticked Off" might want
> to write other utility companies and get a copy of Tiffany's credit
> report to make sure Granny hasn't surprised her again. In fact,
> everyone should get a copy of his or her credit report once a year.
> Also, Ann, your Pollyanna notion that relatives shouldn't sue each
> other is naive. When the relative is a crook, that person should be
> treated like any other crook.

> Dear Readers: I'm afraid I put family loyalty ahead of the financial
> and legal facts of life. The critics are right.

Nope.

> (end)

> (I realize, of course, that things may be even more complicated now,
> but the pragmatic lesson is still the same.)

Nope.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: blackberry shelf life and recipes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9d938b13bbd6b22c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 8:15 am
From: Jeff Thies

The nice thing about urban blight and is that it leaves so much
ground for blackberries to inhabit. I just picked two quarts of
blackberries and since there are many more on the way, I'm thinking of
what to do with them.

I would think refrigeration would help, should I wash them before?

What about freezing?

Any simple recipes? Most of my cooking stops at one ingredient, I found
this:

http://find.myrecipes.com/recipes/recipefinder.dyn?action=displayRecipe&recipe_id=1816143

Which I could make if I had sugar, flour and lemon. I suppose I should
have at least that!

Jeff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:02 am
From: "Bob F"

Jeff Thies wrote:
> The nice thing about urban blight and is that it leaves so much
> ground for blackberries to inhabit. I just picked two quarts of
> blackberries and since there are many more on the way, I'm thinking of
> what to do with them.
>
> I would think refrigeration would help, should I wash them before?
>
> What about freezing?
>
> Any simple recipes? Most of my cooking stops at one ingredient, I
> found this:

Freezing works fine. Spread the just picked berries a few layers deep on cookie
sheets, and put them in the freezer. When frozen, twist the pans to release them
from the bottom, and dump them loose into ziploc freezer bags, suck the air out
and put them back into the freezer. Done this way, you can dump out as many as
you need.

Try making an apple pie, but sprinkle a layer of blackberries on top before
adding the top crust. I call it a blappleberry pie.

They are great on waffles, with real maple syrup, and some plain yogurt.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e7c60718d83a8861?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:29 am
From: KAJOL

See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.

at http://dailyupdatesonly.tk

Due to high sex content,i have hidden the videos in an image. in that
website on left side below search box click on image and watch
videos in all angles. please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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